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mellifluous glass optics

Certain kinds of fat are unhealthy, period. Excess belly fat is unhealthy. This is fact. Hips, thighs, butt, not so much. That can be good for you. Belly fat is not, and obese people are not fit.
Using sexual attraction as the foundation of your argument means that yeah, it is about sexual attraction.


The foundation was never about sexual attraction . The fact you think that talking about fat and thin people means automatically talking about sexual attraction is YOUR thing not mine. They weren't testing sexual preferences, they only showed FACES, please actually click the flippin link.

At least educate yourself about what IAT is about before proclaiming it's HAS to be about sexual attraction and ect. If you aren't going to do that, stop responding to this line of conversation; I don't have time for someone sticking their head in the sand.
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mellifluous glass optics

And there are entire shops and lines that only carry plus size. There are also entire shops and lines that don't cater to people who are super thin. Myself included.


Yes. I already admitted that finding clothes as a very thin man would be more difficult, but you are ignoring that the FEMALE ideal is thin while the MALE ideal is much more substantial(binary ideals piss me off). So duh.

You are also ignoring that I said as long as they aren't severely underweight. This means from about 0-8 or so. Anything smaller than a 0, which would be very very thin, and so fashion would be harder to find.

Mind you, you are now trying to straw man me and take it to extremes. Especially since I have only said thin, and fashionably thin, and especially made sure to note being severely underweight or a thin man would be different.

mellifluous glass optics

How do you know it's easier for a very thin person to find clothing than an averaged sized one?


Oh IDK, because I've been clothing shopping before with thin and not thin people? Because it was easier for my sister to find clothes when she was a size 2 than now that she's a 8-10?

Mind you I never said super thin, I was specific. Stop twisting things.

mellifluous glass optics

I have Nine nieces and nephews and thirteen brothers and sisters. I've also been (unfortunately) "that gay best friend" girls just love dragging shopping with them. I have plenty of experience in the field.

You are -severely- presumptuous.


Not more than you are dear. Though I sorta doubt girls were letting you stand around in their dressing room while they stripped down to their skivvies. They might have, who knows, but I doubt it.

mellifluous glass optics

And again, that isn't true. What about very short women who are thin?


Oh you mean like my sister and aunt?!(note women in our family are 5ft to 5'2 in height) Man sit down somewhere. I've already admitted to:

1. It being harder for thin men to find clothing
2. it being harder for severely thing people(below a 0) to find clothing
3. This being more about female fashion than male since the person we originally started talking about was a woman and so am I.

So if you'd like to IDK actually respond to what I write, hit me back.
Vixianna
mellifluous glass optics

Certain kinds of fat are unhealthy, period. Excess belly fat is unhealthy. This is fact. Hips, thighs, butt, not so much. That can be good for you. Belly fat is not, and obese people are not fit.
Using sexual attraction as the foundation of your argument means that yeah, it is about sexual attraction.


The foundation was never about sexual attraction . The fact you think that talking about fat and thin people means automatically talking about sexual attraction is YOUR thing not mine. They weren't testing sexual preferences, they only showed FACES, please actually click the flippin link.

At least educate yourself about what IAT is about before proclaiming it's HAS to be about sexual attraction and ect. If you aren't going to do that, stop responding to this line of conversation; I don't have time for someone sticking their head in the sand.
If it's not based on sexual attraction then don't bring up sexual attraction.

Anyhow, I took the test.

First thing I noticed was this disclaimer:

Quote:
Important disclaimer: In reporting to you results of any IAT test that you take, we will mention possible interpretations that have a basis in research done (at the University of Washington, University of Virginia, Harvard University, and Yale University) with these tests. However, these Universities, as well as the individual researchers who have contributed to this site, make no claim for the validity of these suggested interpretations.


Now, that aside, I also noticed it essentially programs you to associate 'good' with thin images (they weren't faces either, but body shapes). Over and over it asks you to hit the E key for positive words like 'peaceful' and 'happy' and also hit the E key when you saw the image of a thin person. You hit the I key when you see negative words like 'bad' or 'evil', or when you saw an image of a fat person. It does this for the majority of the test, over and over. Finally at the end, it swaps positive terms with negative terms; you have to alter what you've just trained yourself to do, and select fat people whenever you see positive terms, and thin people when you see negative ones. It was harder for me to do this since I had been trained to do the opposite, and I made more errors. The test assumed I had a programmed preference for thin people.

Very faulty.
Vixianna
mellifluous glass optics

And there are entire shops and lines that only carry plus size. There are also entire shops and lines that don't cater to people who are super thin. Myself included.


Yes. I already admitted that finding clothes as a very thin man would be more difficult, but you are ignoring that the FEMALE ideal is thin while the MALE ideal is much more substantial(binary ideals piss me off). So duh.

You are also ignoring that I said as long as they aren't severely underweight. This means from about 0-8 or so. Anything smaller than a 0, which would be very very thin, and so fashion would be harder to find.

Mind you, you are now trying to straw man me and take it to extremes. Especially since I have only said thin, and fashionably thin, and especially made sure to note being severely underweight or a thin man would be different.

mellifluous glass optics

How do you know it's easier for a very thin person to find clothing than an averaged sized one?


Oh IDK, because I've been clothing shopping before with thin and not thin people? Because it was easier for my sister to find clothes when she was a size 2 than now that she's a 8-10?

Mind you I never said super thin, I was specific. Stop twisting things.

mellifluous glass optics

I have Nine nieces and nephews and thirteen brothers and sisters. I've also been (unfortunately) "that gay best friend" girls just love dragging shopping with them. I have plenty of experience in the field.

You are -severely- presumptuous.


Not more than you are dear. Though I sorta doubt girls were letting you stand around in their dressing room while they stripped down to their skivvies. They might have, who knows, but I doubt it.

mellifluous glass optics

And again, that isn't true. What about very short women who are thin?


Oh you mean like my sister and aunt?!(note women in our family are 5ft to 5'2 in height) Man sit down somewhere. I've already admitted to:

1. It being harder for thin men to find clothing
2. it being harder for severely thing people(below a 0) to find clothing
3. This being more about female fashion than male since the person we originally started talking about was a woman and so am I.

So if you'd like to IDK actually respond to what I write, hit me back.

Then you agree that it isn't 'thin privilege', but average or 'healthy' BMI privilege. The term 'thin' privilege encompasses anyone who is not fat.

I've been clothes shopping with thin and fat people as well, and I disagree. Anecdotes aren't really getting us anywhere, though.

I'm not presuming anything about you; I'm just not taking your personal opinions or experiences as factual evidence because that would be very faulty use of logic.

I've been in women's dressing rooms, yes. A lot. My appearance is very gender-neutral. I can also walk into a woman's bathroom without much more than a glance if I feel like it.

So in summary, it's not 'thin privilege', but 'perfect model figure privilege'. Correct? That would even sum up both the male and female sides of the spectrum.
Vixianna
Riviera de la Mancha

That's the thing - I don't see how society is 'fat-phobic.' Obsessed with thin does not necessitate shaming fat people.

You illustrate my point though - how is the mere mentioning of health problems offensive or shaming?

If I engaged in a behavior, whether by choice or not, which was naturally risky, I would definitely expect a doctor to point that out to me. No matter how you slice it, carrying excess weight is a health issue. I mean really, if I told someone I jumped out of a plane with no chute and lived, what would your reaction be? I would hope you would think 'B.S. squared.' Why? Its a rare thing.
Remember, Docs spend their days seeing the effects of weight on someone, so skepticism makes perfect sense and should be expected even.

Referring back to the link, the person posted as an example of thin privilege, and by extension fat shaming, a private conversation between some girls in a changing room next to her. While she was upset things didn't fit her, the other girls were discussing having too many choices. How was this in any way meant to shame her? They were not talking about her. Had no idea she was even there. This is what I am talking about - finding shaming where there is just none there.


You're right. Our society just manages to do both. What? You think yelling that people are "fat cows" or other such nonsense, or making disparaging comments about fat people who are exercising is because they are concerned for their health? That people get the idea that they are meant to be "forever alone" because we like fat bodies? Come on Riviera.

It doesn't have to be, but the tone and context often is. I don't know how much more clearly I can explain it to you. They don't just "mention" it Riv. It's a production, doctors often MAKE it a production. It doesn't have to be, but it often is.

However, for some people, especially those with ED or past EDs, even mentioning weight at all is triggering. They would obviously inform their doctors of such beforehand, but to have them continue to do so, especially in contexts and times when it's not necessary, is like have someone repeatedly punch you in the face.

A secondary problem is considering weight to be a problem above and beyond evidence, that you as a doctor ordered!, to the contrary. If by every measure you can think of they are healthy, and they aren't coming in for something specific to their weight, AND they are getting plenty of exercise, leave it the ******** alone. Seriously.

When I go to the GP my doctor doesn't mention my asthma every time. This is despite having had asthma since I was basically born, and it having been very severe throughout my childhood. It's just not relevant. It's a health issue, but it's not relevant in all contexts and at all times.

The same with weight man. If someone asks for advice, if there's been a big change up OR down , if you get tests back that say there's a problem, then of course mention it. Of course, that's your job! But to treat it as if it's this magical mystical thing that's so much more worthy of mentioning than something that could kill you (like asthma!) within minutes all the time in every context, is ridiculous. It's not good medicine, it's not a good use of your time or there's, and frankly with how society is structured, it's often not even wanted or helpful.

Yeah except if you came back with pictures of you in the body cast, and all of your friends and family talked about it and ect. That's much more like the doctor insisting over everyone in the family's objections that you just CAN'T be doing X. This is despite coming in in soccer uniforms or gymnastics clothes. Despite food logs and everything else. There's a difference between going "proof pl0x" and ignoring empirical evidence things aren't going like you "think" they should.

I don't need to be lectured about what doctors do Riv. I've probably BEEN in more doctor's offices and hospitals than you've ever heard about. I promise, I'm well aware of what doctors spend their day doing . And there's a difference between skepticism and outright denial of reality. If you came in and showed me those pictures of you surviving jumping out of the plane without a parachute, I'd be a dumbass to continue to say you didn't do it. And if you brought in medical records and a video, I'd basically be sticking my head in the sand.

That's what I'm talking about here. Stories of doctors sticking their head in the sand because the human body wasn't conforming to some BS standard they made up in their head.

Thin Privilege isn't just about shaming fat people, any more than white privilege is about shaming non-whites. They are talking about an organization of society that privileges one body type over another. And yeah the fact you can *whine* about having just so many choices is based on the fact thin bodies are the model on which all clothing is built. I've never been able to say that in my adult life, "sooo many choices how can I piiiiickkkk?!" is not a situation any fat person, especially fat woman, has been in. It's an example of how thin bodies are placed on a pedestal, and there have been plenty of fashion line designers quoted saying they purposefully make their lines tiny because of a disdain for larger human beings. It isn't an accident, fashion isn't fat positive or even neutral.

It wasn't about the girl in the room next door, it was about the fact clothing and fashionable clothing especially isn't *meant* for fat bodies, and the girl next door was a sudden reminder of that fact. She wasn't angry at the girl next door, she was using the contrast as an example of how society is structured.

Woah there, since when did I ever include the comment 'fat cow'?

What do you mean 'production'?

Why not mention weight though, when its been shown to be an issue? To suggest doctors shouldn't mention clear issues exposes them to liability. I mean, if I smoke crack cocaine, tell my doctor this, but none of the tests show a problem with me, you would say that the doctor shouldn't say, 'yeah, you probably shouldn't smoke crack...'? Its a legitimate issue to my health, even if its not presently coming up on any tests.

Include how ever much information you want, the point remains- you are asking a professional who sees the exact opposite day in and day out to believe that which contradicts his daily experience. Its of course going to be suspicious to him, and quite rightly so.

... So the issue then is that products are catering to an average (already American sizes are larger than they really are)? Or is it that this woman has not found one of many stores which cater to larger women and sell fashionable clothing?
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Vixianna
Riviera de la Mancha
Quasirnodo A Go-Go
You asked for examples of "thin shaming", so here you go:

http://thisisthinprivilege.tumblr.com/

The posts complaining about medical professionals instructing them to lose weight are especially entertaining because what the ******** else do you expect when you go to a doctor for help with your health?

This evidences my point I was making, thank you.

The medical concerns are real and supported, but even mentioning this fact is perceived as an attempt to shame them. This is, in my experience, not something that is not that much of an exceptionality within fat acceptance camp as people think.


"Thin privilege is not having a bus driver tell you that you should consider walking instead of taking the bus because “you look like you need it”"

Seriously THIS is thin shaming? This is someone going, yeah and you've never had someone look at you and tell you you can't ride public transportation because you don't looks socially thin enough. Come on man.

"Thin privilege is not growing up believing that you will never be in a romantic relationship because of your size."

Or how about this? Is this shaming thin people?

This one is something that I've literally internalized because of things my mother has said to me and about other women as well. It's hurtful, untrue, and just plain mean. It's literally saying you are unlovable because you weigh X, whether or not that is actually true.(I find personality puts people off far more than looks.) That has nothing to do with thin people and everything to do with us heaping negative attributes onto fat folks.

There's only one on the first page which is suspect "about the various message bulletins around the office." but that speaks to the constant bombardment of messages about the "ideal" body weight than anything else. Fat people are so inundated with messages about how unacceptable their bodies are, that even passive things like that can get under your skin, especially since it's another thing adding to the background radiation that reminds you that you aren't "right". I'm sure it's not the messages themselves, but the constant reminder of the current cultural standard, and the fact that there are there all over and all the time that's really gotten to them.

Honestly, this blog is pretty fantastic so far, maybe you can point one out that really bugs you?(The one about the kids saying that their fat classmate can't be a doctor, a profession that has *nothing* to do with physical ability(outside of surgery) or adhering to a physical ideal(models), because they are fat really hurt my heart. It's the same reason I got out of gymnastics and never went into dancing despite having a talent for them. I wasn't thin enough.)

The idea of 'thin privilege' in itself is ridiculous. Being thin is not an inherent thing a person is just gifted with. It's not a privilege. It's not like just happening to be born white or black or male or female or whatever.

Pro-Tip: Being thin is likely an inherited thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2045017/Thin-parents-pass-skinny-genes-children.html
From what I'm seeing, this study only claims that children tend to be overweight if their parents are. Blaming that on genes is extremely assumptive and poor science. It is not uncommon for obese parents to eat poorly and thus feed their children poorly, which would result in obese children and a link between they and their parents.

Is there any actual, factual data to show that being thin is genetic?

Then you did not read the study. It notes that they were looking at the opposite - whether having thin parents makes their kids thin, and their sample consisted of 7,000 families over 5 years. Its neither assumptive nor poor science. The information for thin people has just not been greatly studied. All the same, the studies trend towards showing what has been shown for fat people already- genes are a factor in determining someone's weight.
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Vixianna


"Thin privilege is not having a bus driver tell you that you should consider walking instead of taking the bus because “you look like you need it”"

Seriously THIS is thin shaming? This is someone going, yeah and you've never had someone look at you and tell you you can't ride public transportation because you don't looks socially thin enough. Come on man.

"Thin privilege is not growing up believing that you will never be in a romantic relationship because of your size."

Or how about this? Is this shaming thin people?

This one is something that I've literally internalized because of things my mother has said to me and about other women as well. It's hurtful, untrue, and just plain mean. It's literally saying you are unlovable because you weigh X, whether or not that is actually true.(I find personality puts people off far more than looks.) That has nothing to do with thin people and everything to do with us heaping negative attributes onto fat folks.

There's only one on the first page which is suspect "about the various message bulletins around the office." but that speaks to the constant bombardment of messages about the "ideal" body weight than anything else. Fat people are so inundated with messages about how unacceptable their bodies are, that even passive things like that can get under your skin, especially since it's another thing adding to the background radiation that reminds you that you aren't "right". I'm sure it's not the messages themselves, but the constant reminder of the current cultural standard, and the fact that there are there all over and all the time that's really gotten to them.

Honestly, this blog is pretty fantastic so far, maybe you can point one out that really bugs you?(The one about the kids saying that their fat classmate can't be a doctor, a profession that has *nothing* to do with physical ability(outside of surgery) or adhering to a physical ideal(models), because they are fat really hurt my heart. It's the same reason I got out of gymnastics and never went into dancing despite having a talent for them. I wasn't thin enough.)

The idea of 'thin privilege' in itself is ridiculous. Being thin is not an inherent thing a person is just gifted with. It's not a privilege. It's not like just happening to be born white or black or male or female or whatever.

Pro-Tip: Being thin is likely an inherited thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2045017/Thin-parents-pass-skinny-genes-children.html
From what I'm seeing, this study only claims that children tend to be overweight if their parents are. Blaming that on genes is extremely assumptive and poor science. It is not uncommon for obese parents to eat poorly and thus feed their children poorly, which would result in obese children and a link between they and their parents.

Is there any actual, factual data to show that being thin is genetic?

Then you did not read the study. It notes that they were looking at the opposite - whether having thin parents makes their kids thin, and their sample consisted of 7,000 families over 5 years. Its neither assumptive nor poor science. The information for thin people has just not been greatly studied. All the same, the studies trend towards showing what has been shown for fat people already- genes are a factor in determining someone's weight.
Oh, I know genetics can be related to metabolism, thyroids, and a number of things associated with weight gain, but from what I've read on the subject (I remember doing a bit of research about all of this when I first heard about the fat acceptance movement) those are all very manageable.

I'm still having a hard time finding where it shows that this particular trend is genetic and not just a reflection of family-oriented dietary habits.
Well regardless, I think we do NEED at least some obese people I mean who else are we to rely on as bait when the impending zombie outbreak happens?

No but in all serious aspects - health diseases or thyroid issues that cause people to be obese from natural causes and not eating habits are a minority in the obese world. I dont care what anybody says - obese people with legit health issues NOT CAUSED BY THEM ARE RARE.

If your gluttony runs your life then and it was your choice I honestly do not feel empathy for you since you lack responsibility of your own well being and it makes me wonder what else you would let go down the crapper.

Fat acceptance? Seriously?

Own up to yourself and go work out and stop being a little child.

Why do I speak so harshly? Obese fat mother******s that I've come across piss me off because of the fact that they are rude, self entitled and think that the world is their little electric scooter.

I remember exactly one time of a girl who worked out hard, lost weight and got the body she was longing for, for so long. Some fat guy and his fat cow of a wife called her ignorant and small minded and disgusting because of the fact that she became slim.

"Thats so gross, she's like anorexic, she must have a personality issue." All saying this while gulping cola down their nasty diabetic throats.


Think I'm being too harsh? Well this is called reality and its a mean one.

For those who are obese and are actively seeking to work out and better themselves? More power to you and we need more people like you in the world.
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Vixianna


"Thin privilege is not having a bus driver tell you that you should consider walking instead of taking the bus because “you look like you need it”"

Seriously THIS is thin shaming? This is someone going, yeah and you've never had someone look at you and tell you you can't ride public transportation because you don't looks socially thin enough. Come on man.

"Thin privilege is not growing up believing that you will never be in a romantic relationship because of your size."

Or how about this? Is this shaming thin people?

This one is something that I've literally internalized because of things my mother has said to me and about other women as well. It's hurtful, untrue, and just plain mean. It's literally saying you are unlovable because you weigh X, whether or not that is actually true.(I find personality puts people off far more than looks.) That has nothing to do with thin people and everything to do with us heaping negative attributes onto fat folks.

There's only one on the first page which is suspect "about the various message bulletins around the office." but that speaks to the constant bombardment of messages about the "ideal" body weight than anything else. Fat people are so inundated with messages about how unacceptable their bodies are, that even passive things like that can get under your skin, especially since it's another thing adding to the background radiation that reminds you that you aren't "right". I'm sure it's not the messages themselves, but the constant reminder of the current cultural standard, and the fact that there are there all over and all the time that's really gotten to them.

Honestly, this blog is pretty fantastic so far, maybe you can point one out that really bugs you?(The one about the kids saying that their fat classmate can't be a doctor, a profession that has *nothing* to do with physical ability(outside of surgery) or adhering to a physical ideal(models), because they are fat really hurt my heart. It's the same reason I got out of gymnastics and never went into dancing despite having a talent for them. I wasn't thin enough.)

The idea of 'thin privilege' in itself is ridiculous. Being thin is not an inherent thing a person is just gifted with. It's not a privilege. It's not like just happening to be born white or black or male or female or whatever.

Pro-Tip: Being thin is likely an inherited thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2045017/Thin-parents-pass-skinny-genes-children.html
From what I'm seeing, this study only claims that children tend to be overweight if their parents are. Blaming that on genes is extremely assumptive and poor science. It is not uncommon for obese parents to eat poorly and thus feed their children poorly, which would result in obese children and a link between they and their parents.

Is there any actual, factual data to show that being thin is genetic?

Then you did not read the study. It notes that they were looking at the opposite - whether having thin parents makes their kids thin, and their sample consisted of 7,000 families over 5 years. Its neither assumptive nor poor science. The information for thin people has just not been greatly studied. All the same, the studies trend towards showing what has been shown for fat people already- genes are a factor in determining someone's weight.
Oh, I know genetics can be related to metabolism, thyroids, and a number of things associated with weight gain, but from what I've read on the subject (I remember doing a bit of research about all of this when I first heard about the fat acceptance movement) those are all very manageable.

I'm still having a hard time finding where it shows that this particular trend is genetic and not just a reflection of family-oriented dietary habits.

If you read the study, you would see that they came to their conclusion by looking at the BMIs parents who fell within the 'slim' sub-section of the BMI. They then looked at their children and, over a period of five years, measured how far their kids diverged from their parent's 'thin' weight.

Like I said, the issue is that its just not been that well studied as to how it works for thin people. For heavy people though, the study shows that the effects, while still unclear, of genes can be very controlling. The issue with your position is that you seem to assess the same values to all factors. To illustrate, if someone's weight were comprised of 1/4th genes, 1/4th diet, 1/4th exercise, and 1/4th stress, then yes, most would be factors one could control. However, and this is what scientists are trying to figure out, is whether or not genes are more like 3/4ths the cause of some people's weight, with the other four factors some fraction of 1/4th. If this is the case, and some evidence shows this, then most of the cause of someone's weight is not controllable.
I don't think society really has a problem with fat. I have plenty of fat friends. However, obese is a bit more touchy. Though I think there is a problem with separating people who are fat because they don't care and people who do try to get their weight under control. I used to be overweight, not by too much but technically almost obese, and it was very discouraging to try and better myself when people laughed at me for running out of breath after a sixth of a mile because I wasn't used to running. But I'm still not "skinny". Since I got my pant size down to a 14 people have said that I look great, and actually worry about my eating habits and say I'm getting too skinny even though I wear an 8-10.
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No skinny acceptance? Or hot sexy body acceptance? Or large p***s acceptance?

The reasons why those acceptances don't exist are the same reasons why this is a silly matter.
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha

Pro-Tip: Being thin is likely an inherited thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2045017/Thin-parents-pass-skinny-genes-children.html
From what I'm seeing, this study only claims that children tend to be overweight if their parents are. Blaming that on genes is extremely assumptive and poor science. It is not uncommon for obese parents to eat poorly and thus feed their children poorly, which would result in obese children and a link between they and their parents.

Is there any actual, factual data to show that being thin is genetic?

Then you did not read the study. It notes that they were looking at the opposite - whether having thin parents makes their kids thin, and their sample consisted of 7,000 families over 5 years. Its neither assumptive nor poor science. The information for thin people has just not been greatly studied. All the same, the studies trend towards showing what has been shown for fat people already- genes are a factor in determining someone's weight.
Oh, I know genetics can be related to metabolism, thyroids, and a number of things associated with weight gain, but from what I've read on the subject (I remember doing a bit of research about all of this when I first heard about the fat acceptance movement) those are all very manageable.

I'm still having a hard time finding where it shows that this particular trend is genetic and not just a reflection of family-oriented dietary habits.

If you read the study, you would see that they came to their conclusion by looking at the BMIs parents who fell within the 'slim' sub-section of the BMI. They then looked at their children and, over a period of five years, measured how far their kids diverged from their parent's 'thin' weight.

Like I said, the issue is that its just not been that well studied as to how it works for thin people. For heavy people though, the study shows that the effects, while still unclear, of genes can be very controlling. The issue with your position is that you seem to assess the same values to all factors. To illustrate, if someone's weight were comprised of 1/4th genes, 1/4th diet, 1/4th exercise, and 1/4th stress, then yes, most would be factors one could control. However, and this is what scientists are trying to figure out, is whether or not genes are more like 3/4ths the cause of some people's weight, with the other four factors some fraction of 1/4th. If this is the case, and some evidence shows this, then most of the cause of someone's weight is not controllable.
I get what you're saying, and there really isn't enough research/data out there to conclude it's one thing or the other. I tend to try and remain skeptical of theories which don't have a lot of data, as a rule. I know that people can and do lose weight, and that it's been proven for quite some time now that poor eating habits and sedentary lifestyles do lead to weight gain. For that reason we know for a fact that genes are not the culprit in a whole lot of situations-- at least not to a point that they cannot reasonably be controlled.

Hell, both my parents are considered obese and I'm thin as a rail. My lover is also thin and quite fit, with an overweight father. During my time in the military a great deal of the people I was in with lost weight during basic training from simply working out and eating well.

And even if genetics did play a large part, they don't determine if a person will be overweight because that person can still manage them so long as they aren't 100% of the cause (or close to that number).
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha
mellifluous glass optics
Riviera de la Mancha

Pro-Tip: Being thin is likely an inherited thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2045017/Thin-parents-pass-skinny-genes-children.html
From what I'm seeing, this study only claims that children tend to be overweight if their parents are. Blaming that on genes is extremely assumptive and poor science. It is not uncommon for obese parents to eat poorly and thus feed their children poorly, which would result in obese children and a link between they and their parents.

Is there any actual, factual data to show that being thin is genetic?

Then you did not read the study. It notes that they were looking at the opposite - whether having thin parents makes their kids thin, and their sample consisted of 7,000 families over 5 years. Its neither assumptive nor poor science. The information for thin people has just not been greatly studied. All the same, the studies trend towards showing what has been shown for fat people already- genes are a factor in determining someone's weight.
Oh, I know genetics can be related to metabolism, thyroids, and a number of things associated with weight gain, but from what I've read on the subject (I remember doing a bit of research about all of this when I first heard about the fat acceptance movement) those are all very manageable.

I'm still having a hard time finding where it shows that this particular trend is genetic and not just a reflection of family-oriented dietary habits.

If you read the study, you would see that they came to their conclusion by looking at the BMIs parents who fell within the 'slim' sub-section of the BMI. They then looked at their children and, over a period of five years, measured how far their kids diverged from their parent's 'thin' weight.

Like I said, the issue is that its just not been that well studied as to how it works for thin people. For heavy people though, the study shows that the effects, while still unclear, of genes can be very controlling. The issue with your position is that you seem to assess the same values to all factors. To illustrate, if someone's weight were comprised of 1/4th genes, 1/4th diet, 1/4th exercise, and 1/4th stress, then yes, most would be factors one could control. However, and this is what scientists are trying to figure out, is whether or not genes are more like 3/4ths the cause of some people's weight, with the other four factors some fraction of 1/4th. If this is the case, and some evidence shows this, then most of the cause of someone's weight is not controllable.
I get what you're saying, and there really isn't enough research/data out there to conclude it's one thing or the other. I tend to try and remain skeptical of theories which don't have a lot of data, as a rule. I know that people can and do lose weight, and that it's been proven for quite some time now that poor eating habits and sedentary lifestyles do lead to weight gain. For that reason we know for a fact that genes are not the culprit in a whole lot of situations-- at least not to a point that they cannot reasonably be controlled.

Hell, both my parents are considered obese and I'm thin as a rail. My lover is also thin and quite fit, with an overweight father. During my time in the military a great deal of the people I was in with lost weight during basic training from simply working out and eating well.

And even if genetics did play a large part, they don't determine if a person will be overweight because that person can still manage them so long as they aren't 100% of the cause (or close to that number).

That diet and lifestyle does lead to weight gain proves nothing more than that diet and lifestyle lead to weight gain. Genes can still very much be a factor in alot of cases then. Rather, it is simply that those people have worked to overcome a natural challenge. There is some new research which has come out in the area of weight gain which suggests also that genes, at least in terms of weight, are not so immutable. Preliminary research has shown, for example, that obese dogs, where were predisposed to being obese, actually changed their own genetic code to become 'more fit' by sustained lifestyle changes.

The field is quite interesting and complex. I suggest you research these again.

And to suggest that even in cases where people are genetically predisposed and this factor is significant, that it is not 100% means its 'manageable' is, to put it simply, dumb. To illustrate, let's pretend you and I are in a footrace; we weigh the same and are of similar build. Now, let's say that during this race, I must where a vest that weighs only 1/16th my weight, while you must wear one that is 1/2 your weight. Is it accurate to say that because you may still be able to run while carrying half your weight, it is thus 'manageable' for you to keep up with me? Of course not- sure, you may be able to do so, but the challenges you face in doing so are significantly different than mine. To act as if the different vests will not affect our performance is, like I said, dumb.
Melody Niwa's avatar

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I think that we should be encouraging each other to make healthy food choices, exercise regularly, etc. But there's a difference between gentle encouragement and harassment.

Basically, if someone wants to make those choices and be fat, back the ******** off and let them live the way they want without being an arrogant a*****e.

I also think that people need to learn that "fat" doesn't necessarily mean "unhealthy". I'm 5'5 and 175 lbs. Could I lose some weight easily with a balanced diet and exercise. Absolutely, and I plan on doing so as soon as I'm living with my parents again and have access to their grocery list. Is my weight endangering to my health? Absolutely not. I may not be able to run as far as the next person, but I've never been athletic to begin with. I have no health problems (although I wasn't able to donate blood last week because my iron levels were too low -nothing a few iron-rich meals can't fix), and a portion of that weight is a result of my large breasts anyway.

While obesity is incredibly unhealthy, if we're talking about everyday fatness, it's not the end of the world.

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