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Michael Noire
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Annata Cannata
I think we should take it easy on fat people. There are some neighborhoods that don't even have grocery stores. Seriously, the only place you'll see a vegetable is a McDonalds and sometimes they don't even have those. So its just chips you got from a liquor store, I guess.
I find that extraordinarily hard to believe.

God knows what a person in such a supposed area would do if they ran out of toilet paper.


You must be highly affluent. Would you like to be my angel investor? I need about $200,000 to meet the requirements for zoning.
Quite the opposite.

No clue what an angel investigator is.
Riviera de la Mancha
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Vixianna
Riviera de la Mancha
Quasirnodo A Go-Go
You asked for examples of "thin shaming", so here you go:

http://thisisthinprivilege.tumblr.com/

The posts complaining about medical professionals instructing them to lose weight are especially entertaining because what the ******** else do you expect when you go to a doctor for help with your health?

This evidences my point I was making, thank you.

The medical concerns are real and supported, but even mentioning this fact is perceived as an attempt to shame them. This is, in my experience, not something that is not that much of an exceptionality within fat acceptance camp as people think.


"Thin privilege is not having a bus driver tell you that you should consider walking instead of taking the bus because “you look like you need it”"

Seriously THIS is thin shaming? This is someone going, yeah and you've never had someone look at you and tell you you can't ride public transportation because you don't looks socially thin enough. Come on man.

"Thin privilege is not growing up believing that you will never be in a romantic relationship because of your size."

Or how about this? Is this shaming thin people?

This one is something that I've literally internalized because of things my mother has said to me and about other women as well. It's hurtful, untrue, and just plain mean. It's literally saying you are unlovable because you weigh X, whether or not that is actually true.(I find personality puts people off far more than looks.) That has nothing to do with thin people and everything to do with us heaping negative attributes onto fat folks.

There's only one on the first page which is suspect "about the various message bulletins around the office." but that speaks to the constant bombardment of messages about the "ideal" body weight than anything else. Fat people are so inundated with messages about how unacceptable their bodies are, that even passive things like that can get under your skin, especially since it's another thing adding to the background radiation that reminds you that you aren't "right". I'm sure it's not the messages themselves, but the constant reminder of the current cultural standard, and the fact that there are there all over and all the time that's really gotten to them.

Honestly, this blog is pretty fantastic so far, maybe you can point one out that really bugs you?(The one about the kids saying that their fat classmate can't be a doctor, a profession that has *nothing* to do with physical ability(outside of surgery) or adhering to a physical ideal(models), because they are fat really hurt my heart. It's the same reason I got out of gymnastics and never went into dancing despite having a talent for them. I wasn't thin enough.)

The idea of 'thin privilege' in itself is ridiculous. Being thin is not an inherent thing a person is just gifted with. It's not a privilege. It's not like just happening to be born white or black or male or female or whatever.

Pro-Tip: Being thin is likely an inherited thing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2045017/Thin-parents-pass-skinny-genes-children.html
From what I'm seeing, this study only claims that children tend to be overweight if their parents are. Blaming that on genes is extremely assumptive and poor science. It is not uncommon for obese parents to eat poorly and thus feed their children poorly, which would result in obese children and a link between they and their parents.

Is there any actual, factual data to show that being thin is genetic?
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Riviera de la Mancha

That's the thing - I don't see how society is 'fat-phobic.' Obsessed with thin does not necessitate shaming fat people.

You illustrate my point though - how is the mere mentioning of health problems offensive or shaming?

If I engaged in a behavior, whether by choice or not, which was naturally risky, I would definitely expect a doctor to point that out to me. No matter how you slice it, carrying excess weight is a health issue. I mean really, if I told someone I jumped out of a plane with no chute and lived, what would your reaction be? I would hope you would think 'B.S. squared.' Why? Its a rare thing.
Remember, Docs spend their days seeing the effects of weight on someone, so skepticism makes perfect sense and should be expected even.

Referring back to the link, the person posted as an example of thin privilege, and by extension fat shaming, a private conversation between some girls in a changing room next to her. While she was upset things didn't fit her, the other girls were discussing having too many choices. How was this in any way meant to shame her? They were not talking about her. Had no idea she was even there. This is what I am talking about - finding shaming where there is just none there.


You're right. Our society just manages to do both. What? You think yelling that people are "fat cows" or other such nonsense, or making disparaging comments about fat people who are exercising is because they are concerned for their health? That people get the idea that they are meant to be "forever alone" because we like fat bodies? Come on Riviera.

It doesn't have to be, but the tone and context often is. I don't know how much more clearly I can explain it to you. They don't just "mention" it Riv. It's a production, doctors often MAKE it a production. It doesn't have to be, but it often is.

However, for some people, especially those with ED or past EDs, even mentioning weight at all is triggering. They would obviously inform their doctors of such beforehand, but to have them continue to do so, especially in contexts and times when it's not necessary, is like have someone repeatedly punch you in the face.

A secondary problem is considering weight to be a problem above and beyond evidence, that you as a doctor ordered!, to the contrary. If by every measure you can think of they are healthy, and they aren't coming in for something specific to their weight, AND they are getting plenty of exercise, leave it the ******** alone. Seriously.

When I go to the GP my doctor doesn't mention my asthma every time. This is despite having had asthma since I was basically born, and it having been very severe throughout my childhood. It's just not relevant. It's a health issue, but it's not relevant in all contexts and at all times.

The same with weight man. If someone asks for advice, if there's been a big change up OR down , if you get tests back that say there's a problem, then of course mention it. Of course, that's your job! But to treat it as if it's this magical mystical thing that's so much more worthy of mentioning than something that could kill you (like asthma!) within minutes all the time in every context, is ridiculous. It's not good medicine, it's not a good use of your time or there's, and frankly with how society is structured, it's often not even wanted or helpful.

Yeah except if you came back with pictures of you in the body cast, and all of your friends and family talked about it and ect. That's much more like the doctor insisting over everyone in the family's objections that you just CAN'T be doing X. This is despite coming in in soccer uniforms or gymnastics clothes. Despite food logs and everything else. There's a difference between going "proof pl0x" and ignoring empirical evidence things aren't going like you "think" they should.

I don't need to be lectured about what doctors do Riv. I've probably BEEN in more doctor's offices and hospitals than you've ever heard about. I promise, I'm well aware of what doctors spend their day doing . And there's a difference between skepticism and outright denial of reality. If you came in and showed me those pictures of you surviving jumping out of the plane without a parachute, I'd be a dumbass to continue to say you didn't do it. And if you brought in medical records and a video, I'd basically be sticking my head in the sand.

That's what I'm talking about here. Stories of doctors sticking their head in the sand because the human body wasn't conforming to some BS standard they made up in their head.

Thin Privilege isn't just about shaming fat people, any more than white privilege is about shaming non-whites. They are talking about an organization of society that privileges one body type over another. And yeah the fact you can *whine* about having just so many choices is based on the fact thin bodies are the model on which all clothing is built. I've never been able to say that in my adult life, "sooo many choices how can I piiiiickkkk?!" is not a situation any fat person, especially fat woman, has been in. It's an example of how thin bodies are placed on a pedestal, and there have been plenty of fashion line designers quoted saying they purposefully make their lines tiny because of a disdain for larger human beings. It isn't an accident, fashion isn't fat positive or even neutral.

It wasn't about the girl in the room next door, it was about the fact clothing and fashionable clothing especially isn't *meant* for fat bodies, and the girl next door was a sudden reminder of that fact. She wasn't angry at the girl next door, she was using the contrast as an example of how society is structured.
On a related note, after some thinking: I find it very ironic that the term 'thin privilege' even exists.

It is such an extreme version of a first world problem, where in many countries one is privileged to be fat. It shows you have access to food, and probably a good amount of it, and needn't run around like a chicken with it's head cut off struggling to find food and survive.

edit: In essence, the ability to gripe about 'thin privilege' is in itself a privilege.
Vixianna


Thin Privilege isn't just about shaming fat people, any more than white privilege is about shaming non-whites. They are talking about an organization of society that privileges one body type over another. And yeah the fact you can *whine* about having just so many choices is based on the fact thin bodies are the model on which all clothing is built. I've never been able to say that in my adult life, "sooo many choices how can I piiiiickkkk?!" is not a situation any fat person, especially fat woman, has been in. It's an example of how thin bodies are placed on a pedestal, and there have been plenty of fashion line designers quoted saying they purposefully make their lines tiny because of a disdain for larger human beings. It isn't an accident, fashion isn't fat positive or even neutral.

It wasn't about the girl in the room next door, it was about the fact clothing and fashionable clothing especially isn't *meant* for fat bodies, and the girl next door was a sudden reminder of that fact. She wasn't angry at the girl next door, she was using the contrast as an example of how society is structured.
...or she had picked out a lot of clothes and just didn't know which to choose from.

There are entire stores dedicated to plus size people.
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From Harvard...https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

There IAT tests show this from their web respondents.

25% Strong automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people.

27% Moderate automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people

19% Slight automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people

7% Slight automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.

4% Moderate automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.

1% Strong automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.

Mind you this isn't about attraction, this, like their black and white, and dark and light skinned tests, are based on whether we associate "bad" things or "good" things with one group or the other. This ranges from lazy and criminal, to nice, and polite. That type of thing.

What? You think it's some accident that 88% of people have a slight to strong preference for thin people as compared to fat? This is them as human beings not a sexually attractive people. (though they are of course related since we are unlikely to find "bad" people attractive.)

I'd say a one in four having a strong automatic preference(which is probably equitable with pure honest fat discrimination) as compared to 1% of the population(feeders and fat fetishists?) makes my point about society for me.
Vixianna
From Harvard...https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

There IAT tests show this from their web respondents.

25% Strong automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people.

27% Moderate automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people

19% Slight automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people

7% Slight automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.

4% Moderate automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.

1% Strong automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.

Mind you this isn't about attraction, this, like their black and white, and dark and light skinned tests, are based on whether we associate "bad" things or "good" things with one group or the other. This ranges from lazy and criminal, to nice, and polite. That type of thing.

What? You think it's some accident that 88% of people have a slight to strong preference for thin people as compared to fat? This is them as human beings not a sexually attractive people. (though they are of course related since we are unlikely to find "bad" people attractive.)

I'd say a one in four having a strong automatic preference(which is probably equitable with pure honest fat discrimination) as compared to 1% of the population(feeders and fat fetishists?) makes my point about society for me.

How does sexual preference indicate whether society perceives something as bad or good? Sexual preference is determined by a lot of factors, many of which are biological.
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mellifluous glass optics
...or she had picked out a lot of clothes and just didn't know which to choose from.
There are entire stores dedicated to plus size people.


She was able to PICK a lot of clothes, because of a lot of clothes in her size and style preference exist. Don't be obtuse.

Uh huh yup. I know those. There's maybe 5 brands in the entire US specifically for plus sized women. (Torrid, Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug,...drawing up a blank on more...)

This is opposed to multiple dozens of stores that don't carry above a 12 over even a 8. The comparison isn't even valid. (Aeropostle, Abrocromie, Forever 21, Fredrick's, Ann Taylor's Loft, Victoria's Secret, ect.)

Dude I know you are invested in thinking life is hard for thin people, but try to be reasonable here.
Vixianna
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...or she had picked out a lot of clothes and just didn't know which to choose from.
There are entire stores dedicated to plus size people.


She was able to PICK a lot of clothes, because of a lot of clothes in her size and style preference exist. Don't be obtuse.

Uh huh yup. I know those. There's maybe 5 brands in the entire US specifically for plus sized women. (Torrid, Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug,...drawing up a blank on more...)

This is opposed to multiple dozens of stores that don't carry above a 12 over even a 8. The comparison isn't even valid. (Aeropostle, Abrocromie, Forever 21, Fredrick's, Ann Taylor's Loft, Victoria's Secret, ect.)

Dude I know you are invested in thinking life is hard for thin people, but try to be reasonable here.
That depends what her size is. You seem to be mistaking 'thin' with 'average'.

People under a size 5 in womens clothing very often have a hard time finding clothing. Don't get me started on men's clothes; I have to buy my own internationally because I literally cannot find -anything- in stores that will fit.
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mellifluous glass optics
Vixianna
From Harvard...https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/
There IAT tests show this from their web respondents.
25% Strong automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people.
27% Moderate automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people
19% Slight automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people
7% Slight automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.
4% Moderate automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.
1% Strong automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.
Mind you this isn't about attraction, this, like their black and white, and dark and light skinned tests, are based on whether we associate "bad" things or "good" things with one group or the other. This ranges from lazy and criminal, to nice, and polite. That type of thing.
What? You think it's some accident that 88% of people have a slight to strong preference for thin people as compared to fat? This is them as human beings not a sexually attractive people. (though they are of course related since we are unlikely to find "bad" people attractive.)
I'd say a one in four having a strong automatic preference(which is probably equitable with pure honest fat discrimination) as compared to 1% of the population(feeders and fat fetishists?) makes my point about society for me.

How does sexual preference indicate whether society perceives something as bad or good? Sexual preference is determined by a lot of factors, many of which are biological.


Going about it the wrong way. We see someone as attractive based on (in a good amount) seeing them as human and seeing them in relation to "positive" attributes. I'm not biologically programmed to be attracted to all races any more than someone is biologically programmed to only like "white" people. That's not how attraction works at all.

So yeah, having an entire "class" of people connected to negative social traits(laziness, smelliness, stupidity, ect.) can deeply affect how people place someone in their unconscious schema of attraction.

Like I said, these tests aren't about sexual attraction. They don't put words like "hot" up there when doing the test. They put things like polite, funny, nice, hostile, ect. up along with instructions that in this round you are supposed to sort these items with this face.

You should look up how the tests are actually run instead of making assumptions. There's a link provided and everything...
Vixianna
mellifluous glass optics
Vixianna
From Harvard...https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/
There IAT tests show this from their web respondents.
25% Strong automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people.
27% Moderate automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people
19% Slight automatic preference for thin people compared to fat people
7% Slight automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.
4% Moderate automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.
1% Strong automatic preference for fat people compared to thin people.
Mind you this isn't about attraction, this, like their black and white, and dark and light skinned tests, are based on whether we associate "bad" things or "good" things with one group or the other. This ranges from lazy and criminal, to nice, and polite. That type of thing.
What? You think it's some accident that 88% of people have a slight to strong preference for thin people as compared to fat? This is them as human beings not a sexually attractive people. (though they are of course related since we are unlikely to find "bad" people attractive.)
I'd say a one in four having a strong automatic preference(which is probably equitable with pure honest fat discrimination) as compared to 1% of the population(feeders and fat fetishists?) makes my point about society for me.

How does sexual preference indicate whether society perceives something as bad or good? Sexual preference is determined by a lot of factors, many of which are biological.


Going about it the wrong way. We see someone as attractive based on (in a good amount) seeing them as human and seeing them in relation to "positive" attributes. I'm not biologically programmed to be attracted to all races any more than someone is biologically programmed to only like "white" people. That's not how attraction works at all.

So yeah, having an entire "class" of people connected to negative social traits(laziness, smelliness, stupidity, ect.) can deeply affect how people place someone in their unconscious schema of attraction.

Like I said, these tests aren't about sexual attraction. They don't put words like "hot" up there when doing the test. They put things like polite, funny, nice, hostile, ect. up along with instructions that in this round you are supposed to sort these items with this face.

You should look up how the tests are actually run instead of making assumptions. There's a link provided and everything...

Sexual attraction is partially (this is proven and I can link a number of studies) dictated by the presumed health of one's partner on a subconscious level. It would then be a logical path to follow to assume that physically fit individuals are more attractive sexually than those who are not.
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That depends what her size is. You seem to be mistaking 'thin' with 'average'.
People under a size 5 in womens clothing very often have a hard time finding clothing. Don't get me started on men's clothes; I have to buy my own internationally because I literally cannot find -anything- in stores that will fit.


Dude I'm a fashionista. I love clothing and fashion and shopping. I have very thin friends, and at one point, my sister was quite thin herself.(0-2 in everything she wore). My aunt is thin. Fer ******** sake, I've been into clothing stores, from Department to boutique, I know what a lot of places carry.

So yeah, there are entire shops and lines that don't go above 12.(this would not be JCPenny's, I named some of them already).

And even so called "average" women 10-14 can't really find clothes as easily as someone who's thinner. It's not like I've never been on shopping adventures with my thin friends bro, I think I know more about how women's fashion goes than you do. You know, being an *actual* woman, with *actual* female friends and siblings and family members who has *actually* been allowed inside the dressing room to see how clothes fit on different female bodies.

I'm sorry, you're just wrong. You might have trouble as a very thin man find clothes, that I can believe(especially if you are tall as well), but unless you are severely underweight(as a woman) and very curvy(like my sister) the fashion world is your b***h if you're thin.

Every designer makes your size, makes their fashions with your body type in mind, considers you the model from which all real fashion is divined.
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Sexual attraction is partially (this is proven and I can link a number of studies) dictated by the presumed health of one's partner on a subconscious level. It would then be a logical path to follow to assume that physically fit individuals are more attractive sexually than those who are not.


Yeah but if you think that's not affected by society constantly claiming it's impossible to be fit and fat, than you're kidding yourself.

That also doesn't explain the anti-black bias, and anti-dark skin bias found by the same tests. Unless you are going to tell me that being black and/or having dark skin make you less physically fit.

Once again these tests are NOT about sexual attraction. They don't test sexual attraction, it's not about that, and you *insisting* that it does it just so you can continue to ignore the results of the test.

Fer ******** sake, if you aren't going to respond to what being written and what's actually being tested, then don't respond at all.
Vixianna
mellifluous glass optics
That depends what her size is. You seem to be mistaking 'thin' with 'average'.
People under a size 5 in womens clothing very often have a hard time finding clothing. Don't get me started on men's clothes; I have to buy my own internationally because I literally cannot find -anything- in stores that will fit.


Dude I'm a fashionista. I love clothing and fashion and shopping. I have very thin friends, and at one point, my sister was quite thin herself.(0-2 in everything she wore). My aunt is thin. Fer ******** sake, I've been into clothing stores, from Department to boutique, I know what a lot of places carry.

So yeah, there are entire shops and lines that don't go above 12.(this would not be JCPenny's, I named some of them already).

And even so called "average" women 10-14 can't really find clothes as easily as someone who's thinner. It's not like I've never been on shopping adventures with my thin friends bro, I think I know more about how women's fashion goes than you do. You know, being an *actual* woman, with *actual* female friends and siblings and family members who has *actually* been allowed inside the dressing room to see how clothes fit on different female bodies.

I'm sorry, you're just wrong. You might have trouble as a very thin man find clothes, that I can believe(especially if you are tall as well), but unless you are severely underweight(as a woman) and very curvy(like my sister) the fashion world is your b***h if you're thin.

Every designer makes your size, makes their fashions with your body type in mind, considers you the model from which all real fashion is divined.

And there are entire shops and lines that only carry plus size. There are also entire shops and lines that don't cater to people who are super thin. Myself included.

How do you know it's easier for a very thin person to find clothing than an averaged sized one?

I have Nine nieces and nephews and thirteen brothers and sisters. I've also been (unfortunately) "that gay best friend" girls just love dragging shopping with them. I have plenty of experience in the field.

You are -severely- presumptuous.

And again, that isn't true. What about very short women who are thin?
Vixianna
mellifluous glass optics

Sexual attraction is partially (this is proven and I can link a number of studies) dictated by the presumed health of one's partner on a subconscious level. It would then be a logical path to follow to assume that physically fit individuals are more attractive sexually than those who are not.


Yeah but if you think that's not affected by society constantly claiming it's impossible to be fit and fat, than you're kidding yourself.

That also doesn't explain the anti-black bias, and anti-dark skin bias found by the same tests. Unless you are going to tell me that being black and/or having dark skin make you less physically fit.

Once again these tests are NOT about sexual attraction. They don't test sexual attraction, it's not about that, and you *insisting* that it does it just so you can continue to ignore the results of the test.

Fer ******** sake, if you aren't going to respond to what being written and what's actually being tested, then don't respond at all.

Certain kinds of fat are unhealthy, period. Excess belly fat is unhealthy. This is fact. Hips, thighs, butt, not so much. That can be good for you. Belly fat is not, and obese people are not fit.

Using sexual attraction as the foundation of your argument means that yeah, it is about sexual attraction.

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