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Sir Deranged Reindeer
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Sir Deranged Reindeer
I think it's ridiculous that America doesn't already have universal health care. I can't get over the fact that in the US, if you get a cancer diagnosis, if you don't have healthcare, you lose your house to pay for treatment. And if you do have healthcare, it's probably through work, so you can't leave work to take the treatment without losing health cover, and if you do, then you won't be able to get health care again, because no one who wants to hire you. That's ******** up.

Meanwhile, in every other first world country, we have universal healthcare, and the world hasn't imploded. And if you want extra cover, and have some extra money, you have the option to buy private healthcare.

Personally I use healthcare all the freaking time, and would probably be dead if the government wasn't paying for a large percentage of it.


i think it's ridiculous that you feel entitled to a house and cancer treatment.

yurop likes to brag about giving everyone healthcare but they always forget that a large part of their economy is supported by people who are basically slave laborers in other countries.


So anyone who can't afford to pay the USA's ridiculously inflated medical treatment prices deserves to die homeless because they got sick due to no fault of the own?

And how do you mean Europe's economy is supported by slave labourers? If you mean importing goods from countries with questionable workers rights/ child labour, America does exactly the same.


no i didn't say anything like that. if you read my posts i support some national healthcare. also, many reasons people die is no one's 'fault'. it's just something that happens and you have to get used to it.

you are trying to act morally superior in that you give all of your citizens healthcare yet you are hypocrites because you import things made by slave laborers in other countries. if you had true values you would stop importing things from those people and you would not even deserve to have a house and any and all health care and a car etc etc etc everything under the sun. you would give up some of your luxuries to care for the poor around the world. but right now you are exploiting the poor in the world to satisfy your own needs. that's ridiculous.

america does it too but we don't try to act morally superior.


I'm not actually European. All Western countries import from those sorts of places, though luckily the companies are starting to put pressure on their sources to improve workers conditions, so it is slowly changing. I try to buy things from responsible sources, but I can't exactly force companies to change their policies or governments to stop importing other than moving my dollars elsewhere.

And you seem to be acting pretty morally superior now.

I pay taxes, and get benefits from the government for doing so. Part of that is receiving healthcare.
from blue to
Je Nique vos Merdiers
It would be way more efficient (and probably cheaper) to get rid of fast food, cars, and poverty.

from blue to
Yes, taxation is theft. It is taking by force without permission. That immoral act taints whatever follows, so government anything is immoral.

Protip: So is private property. All resources on Earth originally belonged to no one. They have been stolen.

If no one owned it, then it couldn't be stolen.

Really? If someone sets up a toll booth on a public road and claims that you owe them money for using their road, that's not theft?
low iq 111
you are trying to act morally superior in that you give all of your citizens healthcare yet you are hypocrites because you import things made by slave laborers in other countries.

That's not hypocrisy, those two things have nothing to do with one another. Hypocrisy is "fair trade certified", or "ethically sourced".

Quote:
if you had true values you would stop importing things from those people and you would not even deserve to have a house and any and all health care and a car etc etc etc everything under the sun. you would give up some of your luxuries to care for the poor around the world. but right now you are exploiting the poor in the world to satisfy your own needs. that's ridiculous.

Spoilers: Every single capitalist country does this, and will do it even more in the near future, as the only way capitalism can grow is an abundance of free labor that can be stolen and exploited by industrialists. Since we're running out of fossil fuels we are going to have to revert to good ol' slave labor.

Quote:
america does it too but we don't try to act morally superior.

Are you kidding? Americans have foreign AND domestic slave labor, and not only do we think we're morally superior to Europeans, we actually delude ourselves into thinking that we are helping all those slaves. Ever read Freakanomics? Economists literally think sweat shops are a good thing.
from blue to's avatar

Beloved Lunatic

Je Nique vos Merdiers
from blue to
Je Nique vos Merdiers
It would be way more efficient (and probably cheaper) to get rid of fast food, cars, and poverty.

from blue to
Yes, taxation is theft. It is taking by force without permission. That immoral act taints whatever follows, so government anything is immoral.

Protip: So is private property. All resources on Earth originally belonged to no one. They have been stolen.

If no one owned it, then it couldn't be stolen.

Really? If someone sets up a toll booth on a public road and claims that you owe them money for using their road, that's not theft?

Public roads are owned by the government.
low iq 111's avatar

Familiar Friend

Sir Deranged Reindeer
low iq 111
Sir Deranged Reindeer
low iq 111
Sir Deranged Reindeer
I think it's ridiculous that America doesn't already have universal health care. I can't get over the fact that in the US, if you get a cancer diagnosis, if you don't have healthcare, you lose your house to pay for treatment. And if you do have healthcare, it's probably through work, so you can't leave work to take the treatment without losing health cover, and if you do, then you won't be able to get health care again, because no one who wants to hire you. That's ******** up.

Meanwhile, in every other first world country, we have universal healthcare, and the world hasn't imploded. And if you want extra cover, and have some extra money, you have the option to buy private healthcare.

Personally I use healthcare all the freaking time, and would probably be dead if the government wasn't paying for a large percentage of it.


i think it's ridiculous that you feel entitled to a house and cancer treatment.

yurop likes to brag about giving everyone healthcare but they always forget that a large part of their economy is supported by people who are basically slave laborers in other countries.


So anyone who can't afford to pay the USA's ridiculously inflated medical treatment prices deserves to die homeless because they got sick due to no fault of the own?

And how do you mean Europe's economy is supported by slave labourers? If you mean importing goods from countries with questionable workers rights/ child labour, America does exactly the same.


no i didn't say anything like that. if you read my posts i support some national healthcare. also, many reasons people die is no one's 'fault'. it's just something that happens and you have to get used to it.

you are trying to act morally superior in that you give all of your citizens healthcare yet you are hypocrites because you import things made by slave laborers in other countries. if you had true values you would stop importing things from those people and you would not even deserve to have a house and any and all health care and a car etc etc etc everything under the sun. you would give up some of your luxuries to care for the poor around the world. but right now you are exploiting the poor in the world to satisfy your own needs. that's ridiculous.

america does it too but we don't try to act morally superior.


I'm not actually European. All Western countries import from those sorts of places, though luckily the companies are starting to put pressure on their sources to improve workers conditions, so it is slowly changing. I try to buy things from responsible sources, but I can't exactly force companies to change their policies or governments to stop importing other than moving my dollars elsewhere.

And you seem to be acting pretty morally superior now.

I pay taxes, and get benefits from the government for doing so. Part of that is receiving healthcare.


it doesn't matter whether you're from yurop or canada or whatever. i was just using an example. they are all the same thing.
it doesn't matter what all western countries do. stop trying to trivialize the damage just because your beloved "western nations" do something. wake up and look at the world around you. you are bitching about how some people don't have houses and cancer treatment. you think you are entitled to both. wake up and look around. half of everyone is starving and would be lucky with 3 meals a day. having a house + cancer treatment is just being plain spoiled.

i'm only acting morally superior, if you can even call it that, because you first posted with an extreme amount of arrogance. i'm actually just pointing out to you where you really aren't that great of a person, though. i'm not actually bragging about anything i do.

how many healthcare resources are imported from other countries and made by slave laborers overseas? you aren't "simply paying taxes and getting your entitlements". you are perpetuating the system if you get healthcare using anything made in an unjust way.
low iq 111's avatar

Familiar Friend

Je Nique vos Merdiers
low iq 111
you are trying to act morally superior in that you give all of your citizens healthcare yet you are hypocrites because you import things made by slave laborers in other countries.

That's not hypocrisy, those two things have nothing to do with one another. Hypocrisy is "fair trade certified", or "ethically sourced".

Quote:
if you had true values you would stop importing things from those people and you would not even deserve to have a house and any and all health care and a car etc etc etc everything under the sun. you would give up some of your luxuries to care for the poor around the world. but right now you are exploiting the poor in the world to satisfy your own needs. that's ridiculous.

Spoilers: Every single capitalist country does this, and will do it even more in the near future, as the only way capitalism can grow is an abundance of free labor that can be stolen and exploited by industrialists. Since we're running out of fossil fuels we are going to have to revert to good ol' slave labor.

Quote:
america does it too but we don't try to act morally superior.

Are you kidding? Americans have foreign AND domestic slave labor, and not only do we think we're morally superior to Europeans, we actually delude ourselves into thinking that we are helping all those slaves. Ever read Freakanomics? Economists literally think sweat shops are a good thing.


uh, yeah it is. acting morally superior but perpetuating a system of unjust labor is hypocrisy because you are saying one thing but doing another.

really?
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so what if other countries do it? they are all still in the wrong.

i'm talking about on this one issue. americans do not try to act like we are morally superior by saying "well we give everyone healthcare~*" and then turn around and exploit people. i'm not gonna touch every other issue like foreign policy, etc. i just mean this one.
Prince Ikari

We in the United States have the best healthcare in the world. We can see doctors easily without any huge waits, we have high rates at detecting and curing cancers in early stages. All of the major medical technological advancements are thanks to the United States.


If you could just take your head out of your own arse for a moment please to realise that the world (particularly in terms of healthcare) isn't paralysed in awe at the infinitely superior American system. rolleyes

The US has poor-mediocre healthcare at best when compared to other MEDCs. And with regards to detecting and curing cancers - that isn't a distinguishable feature in terms of the quality of a highly developed healthcare system, it is rather a basic service that should be there and should be at a high standard in all developed systems worldwide - prevention of disease (particularly in the case of educating and screening "at-risk" populations for the development of cancers) is a fundamental principle that forms the foundations of medicine. It should also be noted that in this review, not only did the US rank last overall but it also ranked last in "measures of access to care" and "efficiency". Rather ironically, this review suggests that America in fact significantly lags behind other nations when it comes to disease prevention and treatment, which as you have suggested above, is crucial when it comes to combating cancer.

"Nineteen percent of U.S. adults with chronic conditions reported they visited an emergency department for a condition that could have been treated by a regular doctor, had one been available, more than three times the rate of patients in Germany or the Netherlands (6%)."
As a UK medical student, I have extensive 1st hand experience of the healthcare system from the point of view of a doctor and I can tell you that no where near as many people with chronic illnesses present to acute emergency departments here - it's already a huge issue to us (and we're ranked 1st in this particular respect!) but oh wow if it were even at the levels reported in Germany/ the Netherlands it would be an absolute disaster in terms of wasting funding and resources and compromising on the quality of care for patients with chronic illness as well as those suffering with acute illness.

How can you say that "We can see doctors easily without any huge waits, we have high rates at detecting and curing cancers in early stages." when "Among adults with chronic conditions (ie. cancer) almost half (45%) with below average incomes in the U.S. reported they went without needed care in the past year because of costs, compared with just 4 percent in the Netherlands. Lower-income U.S. adults with chronic conditions were significantly more likely than those in the six other countries surveyed to report not going to the doctor when they're sick, not filling a prescription, or not getting recommended follow-up care because of costs." And "For example, 54 percent of adults with chronic conditions (cancer) reported problems getting a recommended test, treatment or follow-up care because of cost. In the Netherlands, which ranked first on this measure, only 7 percent of adults with chronic conditions reported this problem."

To claim that "All of the major medical technological advancements are thanks to the United States." is just ridiculous! Maybe it's because of your all-too-common sheer ignorance combined with blind national pride? But if you don't know what you're talking about then don't make such outrageous statements at the expense of others!

In an attempt to educate you, here are a few names for you to look up: Edward Jenner; Antonie van Leeuwenhoek; Ernst Ruska (electron microscope); John Snow (anaesthesia); Godfrey Hounsfield and Allan Cormack (CT); Ian Donald and John J. Wild (ultrasound); Peter Mansfield (MRI); Wilhelm Röntgen (Xray) and Marie Curie; Alexander Fleming, Howard Florey and Ernst Chain (penicillin and antibiotics); Joseph Lister (antiseptic surgery); John Hunter; Frank Pantridge (portable defibrillator) just to name a few. This isn't a national pissing contest; medicine is an international endeavour to benefit all of humanity; in fact we all consider each other, as doctors above all else, to be one big family where the differences in nationality are superfluous but your sheer ignorance is insulting not only to someone of another nationality but to my profession as a whole.

I know it may come as a surprise to you but not everything revolves around 'MURICA; I sincerely hope you have at least begun to realise that now.
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Prince Ikari

We in the United States have the best healthcare in the world. We can see doctors easily without any huge waits, we have high rates at detecting and curing cancers in early stages. All of the major medical technological advancements are thanks to the United States.


If you could just take your head out of your own arse for a moment please to realise that the world (particularly in terms of healthcare) isn't paralysed in awe at the infinitely superior American system. rolleyes

The US has poor-mediocre healthcare at best when compared to other MEDCs. And with regards to detecting and curing cancers - that isn't a distinguishable feature in terms of the quality of a highly developed healthcare system, it is rather a basic service that should be there and should be at a high standard in all developed systems worldwide - prevention of disease (particularly in the case of educating and screening "at-risk" populations for the development of cancers) is a fundamental principle that forms the foundations of medicine. It should also be noted that in this review, not only did the US rank last overall but it also ranked last in "measures of access to care" and "efficiency". Rather ironically, this review suggests that America in fact significantly lags behind other nations when it comes to disease prevention and treatment, which as you have suggested above, is crucial when it comes to combating cancer.

"Nineteen percent of U.S. adults with chronic conditions reported they visited an emergency department for a condition that could have been treated by a regular doctor, had one been available, more than three times the rate of patients in Germany or the Netherlands (6%)."
As a UK medical student, I have extensive 1st hand experience of the healthcare system from the point of view of a doctor and I can tell you that no where near as many people with chronic illnesses present to acute emergency departments here - it's already a huge issue to us (and we're ranked 1st in this particular respect!) but oh wow if it were even at the levels reported in Germany/ the Netherlands it would be an absolute disaster in terms of wasting funding and resources and compromising on the quality of care for patients with chronic illness as well as those suffering with acute illness.

How can you say that "We can see doctors easily without any huge waits, we have high rates at detecting and curing cancers in early stages." when "Among adults with chronic conditions (ie. cancer) almost half (45%) with below average incomes in the U.S. reported they went without needed care in the past year because of costs, compared with just 4 percent in the Netherlands. Lower-income U.S. adults with chronic conditions were significantly more likely than those in the six other countries surveyed to report not going to the doctor when they're sick, not filling a prescription, or not getting recommended follow-up care because of costs." And "For example, 54 percent of adults with chronic conditions (cancer) reported problems getting a recommended test, treatment or follow-up care because of cost. In the Netherlands, which ranked first on this measure, only 7 percent of adults with chronic conditions reported this problem."

To claim that "All of the major medical technological advancements are thanks to the United States." is just ridiculous! Maybe it's because of your all-too-common sheer ignorance combined with blind national pride? But if you don't know what you're talking about then don't make such outrageous statements at the expense of others!

In an attempt to educate you, here are a few names for you to look up: Edward Jenner; Antonie van Leeuwenhoek; Ernst Ruska (electron microscope); John Snow (anaesthesia); Godfrey Hounsfield and Allan Cormack (CT); Ian Donald and John J. Wild (ultrasound); Peter Mansfield (MRI); Wilhelm Röntgen (Xray) and Marie Curie; Alexander Fleming, Howard Florey and Ernst Chain (penicillin and antibiotics); Joseph Lister (antiseptic surgery); John Hunter; Frank Pantridge (portable defibrillator) just to name a few. This isn't a national pissing contest; medicine is an international endeavour to benefit all of humanity; in fact we all consider each other, as doctors above all else, to be one big family where the differences in nationality are superfluous but your sheer ignorance is insulting not only to someone of another nationality but to my profession as a whole.

I know it may come as a surprise to you but not everything revolves around 'MURICA; I sincerely hope you have at least begun to realise that now.


I really agree with this. I'm from an OECD country with universal healthcare as well and waiting and the like isn't an issue people make it to be. I've had lots of people argue back with those same stupid arguments about being the best and no waiting time but what the hell is the point when people who do need to see a doctor won't in the first place.

Some of the best health pros are often bought from other countries to emigrate to the USA causing a brain drain. Nothing to be proud of really.


On another note:
People like to avoid the US healthcare system internationally. I'm an expat with (almost) worldwide healthcare. With any insurance company, the premiums triple simply for putting on the USA onto their insurance. I currently pay $300 a month to get treated anywhere in the world excluding the USA. It costs almost $1,000 a month to include the USA. I'd rather take a trip to somewhere like Germany, Switzerland for world class treatment. Most of the rich around the Middle East and Asia go to Europe, not the States for help. It's funny how the US healthcare system blocks out their own people as well as those outside due to their ridiculous prices.
Sir Deranged Reindeer's avatar

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low iq 111
Sir Deranged Reindeer
low iq 111
Sir Deranged Reindeer
low iq 111
Sir Deranged Reindeer
I think it's ridiculous that America doesn't already have universal health care. I can't get over the fact that in the US, if you get a cancer diagnosis, if you don't have healthcare, you lose your house to pay for treatment. And if you do have healthcare, it's probably through work, so you can't leave work to take the treatment without losing health cover, and if you do, then you won't be able to get health care again, because no one who wants to hire you. That's ******** up.

Meanwhile, in every other first world country, we have universal healthcare, and the world hasn't imploded. And if you want extra cover, and have some extra money, you have the option to buy private healthcare.

Personally I use healthcare all the freaking time, and would probably be dead if the government wasn't paying for a large percentage of it.


i think it's ridiculous that you feel entitled to a house and cancer treatment.

yurop likes to brag about giving everyone healthcare but they always forget that a large part of their economy is supported by people who are basically slave laborers in other countries.


So anyone who can't afford to pay the USA's ridiculously inflated medical treatment prices deserves to die homeless because they got sick due to no fault of the own?

And how do you mean Europe's economy is supported by slave labourers? If you mean importing goods from countries with questionable workers rights/ child labour, America does exactly the same.


no i didn't say anything like that. if you read my posts i support some national healthcare. also, many reasons people die is no one's 'fault'. it's just something that happens and you have to get used to it.

you are trying to act morally superior in that you give all of your citizens healthcare yet you are hypocrites because you import things made by slave laborers in other countries. if you had true values you would stop importing things from those people and you would not even deserve to have a house and any and all health care and a car etc etc etc everything under the sun. you would give up some of your luxuries to care for the poor around the world. but right now you are exploiting the poor in the world to satisfy your own needs. that's ridiculous.

america does it too but we don't try to act morally superior.


I'm not actually European. All Western countries import from those sorts of places, though luckily the companies are starting to put pressure on their sources to improve workers conditions, so it is slowly changing. I try to buy things from responsible sources, but I can't exactly force companies to change their policies or governments to stop importing other than moving my dollars elsewhere.

And you seem to be acting pretty morally superior now.

I pay taxes, and get benefits from the government for doing so. Part of that is receiving healthcare.


it doesn't matter whether you're from yurop or canada or whatever. i was just using an example. they are all the same thing.
it doesn't matter what all western countries do. stop trying to trivialize the damage just because your beloved "western nations" do something. wake up and look at the world around you. you are bitching about how some people don't have houses and cancer treatment. you think you are entitled to both. wake up and look around. half of everyone is starving and would be lucky with 3 meals a day. having a house + cancer treatment is just being plain spoiled.

i'm only acting morally superior, if you can even call it that, because you first posted with an extreme amount of arrogance. i'm actually just pointing out to you where you really aren't that great of a person, though. i'm not actually bragging about anything i do.

how many healthcare resources are imported from other countries and made by slave laborers overseas? you aren't "simply paying taxes and getting your entitlements". you are perpetuating the system if you get healthcare using anything made in an unjust way.


Seriously, *Europe. 'Yurop' is not a thing. I am saying that it is ridiculous that in a First World country, the government can't even look after its only people. And that is what the government is actually for. We are privileged that we were lucky enough to be born in a first world country, and that our governments have the resources and infrastructure to look after their citizens. I think that every person in the world should have the rights to health care, food, water and shelter. As it is, NGOs and GOs of Western nations do what they can to try and support third world countries in these areas as their governments and people work towards developing themselves.

And well... Not very many healthcare resources are imported from companies with slave labour. Of the top 15 grossing pharmaceutical companies, half of them are based in and manufactured in the US, 6 in Europe, 1 from Israel, and 1 from Japan. Hardly a list of third world countries. Packaged food, clothing and consumer electronics (such as mobile phones) are the industries mostly imported from countries with bad workers conditions.

Also, what am I supposed to do? Break the law and not pay tax? Avoid using anything paid for by tax such as roads, schools, universities, hospitals, libraries, community centres...? You have a very strange, and naive view of the world.
from blue to
I could agree the government needs to get more efficient, but I don't think it should be providing health care to everyone (least of all doing so using the corrupt crony capitalist system as the delivery method). Really I don't think the government should be doing anything that requires that it force people to give it money to fund it. Taxation is theft -- nothing built on theft is good.
What am I reading?


Are you against capitalism or socialism? Because taxation, and using collective funding is a socialist idea for the betterment of all of society, not just the individual.


If they stopped all taxes we'd be heading into total capitalism - everyone for themselves with no government intervention. And let me tell you now that that would just be a massive disaster.


But you hate Capitalism AND taxes?
SmallTownGuy's avatar

Beloved Elder

Representation without taxation was a problem with the USA's original Articles of Confederation. It *was* a failure. Congress (there wasn't a President nor a judiciary) didn't have enough authority to do much of anything effectively.
from blue to's avatar

Beloved Lunatic

Henrika
from blue to
I could agree the government needs to get more efficient, but I don't think it should be providing health care to everyone (least of all doing so using the corrupt crony capitalist system as the delivery method). Really I don't think the government should be doing anything that requires that it force people to give it money to fund it. Taxation is theft -- nothing built on theft is good.
What am I reading?


Are you against capitalism or socialism? Because taxation, and using collective funding is a socialist idea for the betterment of all of society, not just the individual.


If they stopped all taxes we'd be heading into total capitalism - everyone for themselves with no government intervention. And let me tell you now that that would just be a massive disaster.


But you hate Capitalism AND taxes?

You missed a word.
Suicidesoldier#1
SmallTownGuy
Dysia
If I was a CEO of a multinational corporation, I would want my employees to be in the best possible condition and that would demand they have the same health care standards and choices I myself would be happy with.
Maybe that's why you and I aren't CEOs? Most big CEOs seem to list employees firmly on the "liability" side of the balance sheet, not the "asset" side. They want to maximize profits, not expenses. If an employee gets sick or injured, fire them and hire someone else.

(Railroads in the USA used to be famous for firing injured employees, until they were finally unionized. Even then, my next-door neighbor had to sue to get compensation when he lost his leg in a rail yard accident. And then the railroad fired him for suing.)


Except that it would be more efficient to have healthy, well trained, well motivated workers than not well motivated workers. xp


I agree with all three of you. If your computer breaks down, you fix it, you might even, if you can, upgrade it. We are entering an age where a person will eventually be able to exit the hospital in a better condition than before they were injured. I had a friend who was a dance instructor and he didn't know he had bad eye sight until he started working for an optometrist. We were heading down the roads of a mountain from a ski trip and he was tripping out with his new glasses, exclaiming excitedly that he could see the pine needles - something he had never seen. It was a whole new world.
low iq 111's avatar

Familiar Friend

Sir Deranged Reindeer
low iq 111
Sir Deranged Reindeer
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Sir Deranged Reindeer


So anyone who can't afford to pay the USA's ridiculously inflated medical treatment prices deserves to die homeless because they got sick due to no fault of the own?

And how do you mean Europe's economy is supported by slave labourers? If you mean importing goods from countries with questionable workers rights/ child labour, America does exactly the same.


no i didn't say anything like that. if you read my posts i support some national healthcare. also, many reasons people die is no one's 'fault'. it's just something that happens and you have to get used to it.

you are trying to act morally superior in that you give all of your citizens healthcare yet you are hypocrites because you import things made by slave laborers in other countries. if you had true values you would stop importing things from those people and you would not even deserve to have a house and any and all health care and a car etc etc etc everything under the sun. you would give up some of your luxuries to care for the poor around the world. but right now you are exploiting the poor in the world to satisfy your own needs. that's ridiculous.

america does it too but we don't try to act morally superior.


I'm not actually European. All Western countries import from those sorts of places, though luckily the companies are starting to put pressure on their sources to improve workers conditions, so it is slowly changing. I try to buy things from responsible sources, but I can't exactly force companies to change their policies or governments to stop importing other than moving my dollars elsewhere.

And you seem to be acting pretty morally superior now.

I pay taxes, and get benefits from the government for doing so. Part of that is receiving healthcare.


it doesn't matter whether you're from yurop or canada or whatever. i was just using an example. they are all the same thing.
it doesn't matter what all western countries do. stop trying to trivialize the damage just because your beloved "western nations" do something. wake up and look at the world around you. you are bitching about how some people don't have houses and cancer treatment. you think you are entitled to both. wake up and look around. half of everyone is starving and would be lucky with 3 meals a day. having a house + cancer treatment is just being plain spoiled.

i'm only acting morally superior, if you can even call it that, because you first posted with an extreme amount of arrogance. i'm actually just pointing out to you where you really aren't that great of a person, though. i'm not actually bragging about anything i do.

how many healthcare resources are imported from other countries and made by slave laborers overseas? you aren't "simply paying taxes and getting your entitlements". you are perpetuating the system if you get healthcare using anything made in an unjust way.


Seriously, *Europe. 'Yurop' is not a thing. I am saying that it is ridiculous that in a First World country, the government can't even look after its only people. And that is what the government is actually for. We are privileged that we were lucky enough to be born in a first world country, and that our governments have the resources and infrastructure to look after their citizens. I think that every person in the world should have the rights to health care, food, water and shelter. As it is, NGOs and GOs of Western nations do what they can to try and support third world countries in these areas as their governments and people work towards developing themselves.

And well... Not very many healthcare resources are imported from companies with slave labour. Of the top 15 grossing pharmaceutical companies, half of them are based in and manufactured in the US, 6 in Europe, 1 from Israel, and 1 from Japan. Hardly a list of third world countries. Packaged food, clothing and consumer electronics (such as mobile phones) are the industries mostly imported from countries with bad workers conditions.

Also, what am I supposed to do? Break the law and not pay tax? Avoid using anything paid for by tax such as roads, schools, universities, hospitals, libraries, community centres...? You have a very strange, and naive view of the world.


yurop. razz

i think it's ridiculous a 1st world country can't share some of its wealth. you demand everything for those within your society and think you are being a "good person" yet you refuse to see others who are suffering.

food and water okay...health care and shelter? do you realize that that may not even be physically possible? do you realize education would be better to give to everyone than shelter? do you realize we need to think about nature and other life forms too?

i'm not asking you to do anything...i'm just asking you to look outside your narrow perspective. if you really want to help that would be great and i think you should adopt a child from a 3rd world country. or whatever. it's up to you.

i never said do any of that.....yet you call me naive based on s**t you made up about me....awesome.
Old Blue Collar Joe
SmallTownGuy
Old Blue Collar Joe
Where is the line drawn on forcing others to pick up all the ******** bills for some people? Groceries, rent, cell phones, utilities, health care...at what point do we who pay taxes get to say 'that's not our problem, find another way to fund it'?
Suppose you tell me? Where is the line drawn on helping each other, because we all (or most of us, anyway) have times when we're doing ok, and other times when when we're in trouble.

Are you saying the rich should have private health care, and the poor should just die? Because there are a lot of people in between the extreme rich and extreme poor who have both good and bad years.


All that should be provided by the government is enough to feed your family and keep a roof over your head with emergency medical care. Period. It's supposed to be a safety net, not a hammock.
You keep giving them all they want, they have no incentive to get off the bottom. (Not all, some. But even some is too damn many.)


Emergency health care does not cover the labs I need, the medication I need in order to prevent my body from giving me heart failure, kidney failure, extreme weight loss, muscle loss, etc, and it certainly does not cover my visits to my endocrinologist who helps me to regulate how much medicine I need to take.

Man in the sky forbid I get help to afford everything I need to keep myself from dying. I'm not almost finished with the MA program and still looking for a job. Of course not. I'm just sitting at home and looking for a way to get free stuff without working. After all, that's what the majority of us who are less fortunate are doing. No need to help us. We're all just freeloaders. (sarcasm, by the way).

I did not choose to have this medical problem. I also did not choose to only be qualified for a health plan that only allows me to make a certain amount of money before they cut me off from the plan, which is why I can't just go out and find a job. I don't have the luxury of getting a job just to "get by," because minimum wage is apparently "too rich" to be recieving help from them, and I certainly won't be able to get the care I need with minimum wage pockets. I not only need a job, but I need a job with FULL HEALTH BENEFITS that can help me pay for what I need to stay alive. With the job market the way it is at the moment, it's getting difficult to find a full time job that I went to school for with or without my MA degree. It's gotten so bad that I'm looking into jobs at Starbucks and Target. Not for the pay, but for the benefits. I have two choices, make money or stay alive.

The fact that you believe that people like me should not be helped out, because SOME people are lazy and demand 'handouts' is sickening.

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