Do you Need College?

Is a college degree important?

Yes	58.0%	[ 47 ]
No	27.2%	[ 22 ]
Indifferent	14.8%	[ 12 ]
Total Votes:			[ 81 ]

[Samadhi23]

frozen_water

Do you really need college?

Do you need college to be successful?

If you do need college to be successful, is it because of what college offers you, or is it because employers have set arbitrary requirements for degrees?

What do you gain from college?

Is attending college a "fad"?

1 and 2. No

3. Bingo - it is entirely because of arbitrary requirements set up by businesses. I've seen multiple times even a blanket "college degree required" with absolutely no concerns about subject matter studied. It is a step in bureaucracy, nothing more.

4. I gained a lot of social experiences that would not have happened otherwise. Other than that, nothing.

5. I don't think its a fad nearly as much as a marketing ploy. Colleges are businesses so they portray themselves as necessary as a way of making money.

frozen_water

So degrees are valuable to the extent they help one get a job? College was initially education for education's sake. Is that no longer of value?

In 5 years in engineering school I learned almost nothing and still have not gotten any job with that background that I couldn't have gotten with a bachelor's in art. The amount of material I have learned through independent study far surpasses anything I learned in school. Graduate school is a bit better in this regard, but at the undergraduate level its closer to the equivalent of what a HS diploma was considered 50 years ago - a nice piece of paper to help find a job but in no way representative of an actual education.

[frozen_water]

Mei tsuki7

frozen_water

Mei tsuki7

frozen_water

Mei tsuki7

With the price of college now a days if you want to learn just for the sake of learning then you should do it on your own.

You can't get the same quality of education, college allows you to be taught by experts in the field and gives you access to materials you couldn't feasibly aquire on your own.

I disagree for the most part. Especially now that world renowned professors are posting free teaching videos. It is completely feasible to get the same quality of learning outside of college. Also, being taught by experts in the field really doesn't matter when you think about the fact that the vast majority of professors have no learning in education. I took far too many classes with a professor that was unable to teach properly and therefore I had to learn everything myself from the book and other resources.

Now there is one area where you are right about access of materials but that only applies to science which I already said was a subject a degree was needed in. See, most people do not have access to a lab so college is worth it then. But if you want to learn about lab science just for the sake of it I would suggest a community college or another cheap school.

If you feel like you can get the same access from your home, you either went to a shitty college or didn't make good use of the one you were at.

Naturally lab materials are one of the benefits of college, but access extends far beyond that, my university alone pays over a million dollars (I believe a year) for access to scholarly journals and literature. The library alone is an amazing wealth of knowledge which still is not paralleled on the internet as of yet. (NOTE: I'll give the internet quantity of information any day, but quality is still to be found in hard copy.)

As to the online teacher comment, just because a few "world-renown" profs have posted some videos does not mean you can get college level education outside of a university. I believe the capabilities exist to provide such an education, but they have yet to be implemented to a point in which you can obtain them on par with a college education.

You seem to be applying merely the benefits of college as useful to a career, which is fine, but not what I'm getting at. If you're trying to address the practicality of college as a learning experience then there really isn't a comparison, aside from true world experience such as studying abroad.

I had a few really shitty professors. They were basically genius level people, they were physics professors, but they couldn't teach for s**t. There was one class I literally taught myself everything. Though I will say I am not an auditory learner so sitting in a class having someone talk at me doesn't help me learn at all.

There are ways of making sure you don't get stuck with a bad professor, this is a weak case as their are multiple classes and colleges to choose from. (Also means of checking out information on the professor before hand).

Quote:

I personally disagree with how stringent publishers are with access of their material honestly. I don't think you should have to pay for knowledge. You shouldn't have to pay for scholarly journals. BUT you still can get access to those journals on the internet. Legally you can pay for them. You can also get them illegally if you want as well. Isn't it better to just pay the fee for the papers you want to access rather than a university for access to all the papers, even ones you don't want?

Whether or not you should have to pay is irrelevant, you do.

Again my point was that one person could not access the materials in a practical way, perhaps you missed the price tag for my school, 1 million, most people don't have that type of money lying around.

And no, not all of the materials can be obtained through illegal means.

Quote:

You're not up to date with what's going on in the world of internet learning. I'm not talking about a few and I'm talking about professors from some of the top universities in the world. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.

You missed my point, a few professors on specific topics and lectures does not rival the experience of actually attending. Again, the potential is there, but it has yet to be realized.

Quote:

And I say if you're just going to college as a learning experience it is not worth the money. I'm not saying it's not a special experience or that if people can afford it and want to they shouldn't go but just that people shouldn't be forced into debt they can never get out of just for that experience. If they want that type of learning experience go into the peace corp or another organization that either costs you far less or even nothing.

How much is knowledge worth?

[Fermionic]

Yes, if we've a wish to advance as a species, a university-type institution is necessary.

[Moratuoa]

Mei tsuki7

If they want that type of learning experience go into the peace corp or another organization that either costs you far less or even nothing.

Small aside that actually undermines your main point: Peace Corps requires a college degree or an extended level of experience. The vast majority of PCVs have a university degree.

[I AM R U]

Mei tsuki7

frozen_water

Mei tsuki7

As has been said a million times, it depends on the degree you get.

I don't pay much creedance to the number of times something's been said.

And besides that, which degrees are better? Are you basing this on pay, educational value, something else?

Art degrees are useless. Portfolio's are what are important. At most, taking a few classes is useful.

The various Sciences, Math and Engineering disciplines are where degrees matter. You have to have a degree to get a job in those fields, as it should be.

All other degrees fall in the middle. They can help but they also may not. And for some you can get by without a degree.

I base it on pay, jobs and my own experiences.

I would agree that, obviously, a science degree is important if you wish to work in that area - for example, I wouldn't want an engineer who never went to university and doesn't have any form of qualification working on my house.

But your assumption that an arts degree is useless is simply idiotic. An arts degree may not appear to have any "useful" function, nor be particularly practical, but it depends how you define practicality. Obviously I wouldn't want someone who majored in History and Sociology designing a building, but I would want them teaching history at my local high school. Many people with an arts degree go on to do teaching qualifications, and their area of expertise certainly has a practical function in that regard. Others may go on to become journalists (using their ability to write, and the investigative reasoning skills their acquired while doing their arts degree), other may become lawyers, or work in the area of their major, such as literature, history, anthropology, psychology etc.

So, depending on what area you wish to work in, no degree of any kind is "useless". At the very least, knowledge for knowledge's sake is a worthy pursuit.

[Track01_Rebuild]

Mei tsuki7

frozen_water

Mei tsuki7

As has been said a million times, it depends on the degree you get.

I don't pay much creedance to the number of times something's been said.

And besides that, which degrees are better? Are you basing this on pay, educational value, something else?

Art degrees are useless. Portfolio's are what are important. At most, taking a few classes is useful.

Tech-heavy arts, being taught how to use a lot of equipment you could not afford on your own otherwise, networking, and professional practices/business classes beg to differ.
A good assistant job is more important than a super portfolio. You're much more likely to get one of those after attending an accredited non-profit arts university.

[Shakespearean Quotations]

There is always a need for people to work menial jobs like janitorial work, or even police work.
You only need to attend university if your desired profession demands it.
However, I would suggest that all people further their education, for their own sake.
It opens up many doors in your life, as you will be fairly restricted in what work you can do without a superior education.

[geminikitten]

Ignoring all the degrees that requires you to have a certificate like medicine and so on, the degree doesn't teach you as much as it should.
What it does offer you is a piece of paper that acts like a ticket to higher paying jobs and can open up some restrictions later in life. I know a number of people who could not get promoted to certain positions due to their degree (or lack of).

[Neverwise]

Do you really need college?
For the career I want, yes.

Do you need college to be successful?
Yes.

If you do need college to be successful, is it because of what college offers you, or is it because employers have set arbitrary requirements for degrees?
Both. Becoming a legit' archaeologist requires a degree, as does being a university lecturer specializing in the Romans and/or the Classics.

What do you gain from college?
A degree to further go on to do an MA, followed by a doctorate. Research and study skills, and essay-writing skills as well.

Is attending college a "fad"?
For the amount it costs? No.

[logan the god of candy]

you just need a piece of paper and people to say it's real. a degree doesn't ensure you know what a job requires. it's all ******** bullshit. get forged documents.

[Annata Cannata]

Lately I've been seeing jobs that want degrees AND 20 years of experience. School still isn't enough.

[Ask Jappleack]

Remember that nurse who accidently put cofee in a person's iv or something and killed the person. Its people like that they are hopefully trying to weed out from certain jobs. But its true she could have been sleep deprived or on drugs. Probably on drugs, she is a nurse, some people become nurses just for drugs honestly (how to use a needle and can easily steal medications).

But honestly that jsut shows 1. responsibility
2. can use their brain
3. knows how to do their job appropriately

Some people hate math but you need to know math for alot of jobs. If you don't know that math theres someone better qualified than you who will do better and work there longer. We need education, or the ability to show how good we are at whatever job we are assigned, because its an investment form corporations and they will take who is more qualified or who makes them more money basically and costs them the least amount of money in the end. So you dont need education for that it just makes it easier unless you owned and sold a family bussiness, but then they would call you overqualified anyways unless you let them know you wont quit anytime soon.

So yes, college was made for bussinesses to exploit us, but not all bussinesses are working hand in hand. The college industry is different from the working at sears industry lol.

And face it we dont know everything we can use college to help us, especially for maths and sciences. But for things like english classes or history or something, you can do independant research if you are interested in the field and make out better. Even though its called independant research its probably best to see what others of those professions say, or people in forums discussing that topic/field.

Theres always options. Not just what is handed to you. If you are passionate about working in a certain field you could get an internship if you prove you work hard and are reliable(which passionate implies somewhat).

So really. Depends on what field lolll, doctors need to know how to use certain equipment for example. But an article writer just needs to be good at writing articles, its good to assume you arent the best though and at least look at top articles from newspapers or magazines to see how they present it to their audiences and stuff, for whichever magazines you appreciate more. But not all of us get our ideal jobs, so its better to be overprepared than underprepared, hence college.

But now college seems to be replacing high school diplomas. Just because it was probably invented (some fo them) to beat others with the same credentials by spending some money and time to have a certified thingy of approveal.

[Reidmarr von Brugge]

Well it depends. I look at it from not only an economic standpoint, but a social one as well.

Quote:

"A society that will easily give up its essential liberties does not deserve my contribution." - Anonymous

I'm talking about the assault weapons ban that is currently pending as I type this. If it passes, I'm not going. There would be no point. Why should I pay someone to educate me, that in the end would only educate me into something that feeds the machine that takes away freedom? I'd be better off educating myself, than being indoctrinated into some ideology that doesn't work.

[Riviera de la Mancha]

Straight shooting here...

College, from an employment perspective, is needed, depending on the type of work you are getting in to. Yeah, there are some great Joes and Janes out there who make good money with no college education, but let me break them down for you into what they usually are...

1.) Silver Spoon types.

2.) Mad hustlers.

3.) Lucky devils.

Or some combination thereof. That is my kinder way of saying most people, and I mean like 95%, do not fall into any of those categories and need to go to school. Most people who think they don't need college need it the most, but can't hack it, so they come up with cute excuses for it.

That being said, there are plenty of good jobs that don't need a college degree. What they do need though is post-high school education, which is just as legit to me as college. Again, most people can't open up a new car and just know what goes where, bake up petite fours, etc. and need to go to school.

From a social perspective, college is nice, as it opens up your mind to ideas and people, which is not to be sneezed at. Alot of people could do to have some different experiences once in a while.

[frozen_water]

Kozumuda

Well it depends. I look at it from not only an economic standpoint, but a social one as well.

Quote:

"A society that will easily give up its essential liberties does not deserve my contribution." - Anonymous

I'm talking about the assault weapons ban that is currently pending as I type this. If it passes, I'm not going. There would be no point. Why should I pay someone to educate me, that in the end would only educate me into something that feeds the machine that takes away freedom? I'd be better off educating myself, than being indoctrinated into some ideology that doesn't work.

This is the most ridiculous post I've ever seen.

Gun rights have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, and your quote is so irrelevant... I just, what the hell is this s**t?

You'd pay to be educated because education allows you do better understand the world around you, not to "feed the machine" whatever the hell that means.