Christains in the Military.

[augustine17]

Khamsin

CH1YO

Why on earth would you start with the Crusades?

You could have at least picked a campaign that was set about for reasons that were clearly not just.

The Crusades weren't just. They were politically and financially motivated, and then thinly veiled as a religious mission. The Christians were absolutely vicious there.

if it wasn't for the crusades there would be no Christianity and most European culture would be lost they were just as important as Greece Vs. Persia

[pockybot]

Singh Is Back

I completely agree with this post, and this get's me thinking of the government itself, and I believe that there's more to it that just 'a dark agenda.'

I'd like to bring up a topic, though, and this is intended as a kind of vaccine, an inoculation if you will, against the lies that permeate the purpose of the war and it's endeavors. To begin with, U.S. Government frequently avers its support of democracy and its love of freedom. But one need only look at what U.S. Government is doing—as opposed to what it is saying—to understand its true aims. The Bush Administration wanted to nourish vengeful, crude ideologies. Faugh. Even with a new president, I haven't seen any changes, currently the U.S. Government's stances are geared toward the continuation of social stratification under the rubric of "tradition". Funny, that was the same term that its compeers once used to prevent me from sleeping soundly at night. Okay, I've written enough about, so let me just finish by saying that only a fool can believe that U.S. Government's debauches are the result of a high-minded urge to do sociological research. The war is in no way for any of us, the least bit of a help. We suffer in an economical crisis, and here we are.. In one of the most pointless wars in history..

Now, you tell me, would an actual devout Christian, who actually cares, join the military to fight in a war such as this?

I couldn't agree more! I shock even my fellow anti war liberal friends by saying its not just the Iraq war Ive been against, but the war in Afghanistan and the proxy war in Pakistan Obama has launched.

And to me it all comes down to 9/11, and what has to still be the most controversial taboo topic going 8 years later. I got flamed a gillion times last week for merely asking why questioning 9/11 is so wrong...given its been the basis used for endless wars, trillions wasted, endless lives lost, torture, etc.

And yeah, I dont feel a true Christian would be a part of the US military or any military...it seems Christians would see the US government as part of the "Satanic" world order(if one believes in that stuff)

[Singh Is Back]

pockybot

Singh Is Back

I completely agree with this post, and this get's me thinking of the government itself, and I believe that there's more to it that just 'a dark agenda.'

I'd like to bring up a topic, though, and this is intended as a kind of vaccine, an inoculation if you will, against the lies that permeate the purpose of the war and it's endeavors. To begin with, U.S. Government frequently avers its support of democracy and its love of freedom. But one need only look at what U.S. Government is doing—as opposed to what it is saying—to understand its true aims. The Bush Administration wanted to nourish vengeful, crude ideologies. Faugh. Even with a new president, I haven't seen any changes, currently the U.S. Government's stances are geared toward the continuation of social stratification under the rubric of "tradition". Funny, that was the same term that its compeers once used to prevent me from sleeping soundly at night. Okay, I've written enough about, so let me just finish by saying that only a fool can believe that U.S. Government's debauches are the result of a high-minded urge to do sociological research. The war is in no way for any of us, the least bit of a help. We suffer in an economical crisis, and here we are.. In one of the most pointless wars in history..

Now, you tell me, would an actual devout Christian, who actually cares, join the military to fight in a war such as this?

I couldn't agree more! I shock even my fellow anti war liberal friends by saying its not just the Iraq war Ive been against, but the war in Afghanistan and the proxy war in Pakistan Obama has launched.

And to me it all comes down to 9/11, and what has to still be the most controversial taboo topic going 8 years later. I got flamed a gillion times last week for merely asking why questioning 9/11 is so wrong...given its been the basis used for endless wars, trillions wasted, endless lives lost, torture, etc.

And yeah, I dont feel a true Christian would be a part of the US military or any military...it seems Christians would see the US government as part of the "Satanic" world order(if one believes in that stuff)

If I were a true Christian, I wouldn't necessarily consider the government as Satanic, more likely just stupid. Even as a non-Christian, the government is still as stupid to me anyway..

There's waaay too many idiots with all the power these days.

I'm sure if Bush still ran things, it wouldn't have been long before we started a war against Islam itself..

_______________________


Keeping it more on topic though, isn't it surprising that such a huge piece of so-called "Christians" don't go to church, or even bother to look up their religious history?

So, keeping that in mind, do you think that alot of the younger "Christians" in the military, would even care?

[Ubasti]

augustine17

Khamsin

CH1YO

Why on earth would you start with the Crusades?

You could have at least picked a campaign that was set about for reasons that were clearly not just.

The Crusades weren't just. They were politically and financially motivated, and then thinly veiled as a religious mission. The Christians were absolutely vicious there.

if it wasn't for the crusades there would be no Christianity and most European culture would be lost they were just as important as Greece Vs. Persia

This statement reeks of bullshit.

[pockybot]

Singh Is Back

If I were a true Christian, I wouldn't necessarily consider the government as Satanic, more likely just stupid. Even as a non-Christian, the government is still as stupid to me anyway..

There's waaay too many idiots with all the power these days.

I'm sure if Bush still ran things, it wouldn't have been long before we started a war against Islam itself..

_______________________


Keeping it more on topic though, isn't it surprising that such a huge piece of so-called "Christians" don't go to church, or even bother to look up their religious history?

So, keeping that in mind, do you think that alot of the younger "Christians" in the military, would even care?

Right, but I can't let the government off the hook with the "incompetence" thing. It takes an awful lot of planning and conspiracy to launch a war or two based on lies and fabrications and a lot of hidden agendas with string pulls. It seems most the wars after ww2 were based on distortions(like Vietnam) I always wonder, who benefits?

[fishy-kun]

Mmm... let's see if my Sunday school taught me right.

Btw, I'm skipping reading everyone's posts that are already up here, so if what I'm saying is repetitive I apologize. Don't quite have the time to go through everyone's statements and respond to them directly.

The reason why God placed the commandment "Thou shalt not murder (or kill)" is because we are created in God's image. (Says so somewhere in the Bible.) He, in a way, placed his trademark on us, a special honor to one of his creation. To kill someone, then, is to actively go against God. A modern equivalent would be drawing dirty pictures on a picture of Mother Theresa: its very rude and disrespectful.

The question of whether God sanctions killing in a war to be right is difficult to answer, because there are many rules in the Bible that can support both sides. The Bible says to obey the authorities, because they work to promote peace (or security, in this case). It also says in the Old Testament that God ordered David to go out and conquer many nations to ensure a place for the kingdom of Israel. On the other hand, he also says love your enemies, and to turn the other cheek when someone slaps you.

Organized war- killing with emotion or passion- simply following orders- is what confuses the question. How can we we be blamed if we didn't want to do it in the first place? In a perfect world, where peace is everlasting, there would be no war. People would give to those who are in want, and if it were the case that everyone was in want, and there was little to share, than God would provide (in a perfect world, mind). So sad, it is not so!

I cannot provide a perfect answer, but I can give what I think is right. In the book of Leviticus, where the Bible details the rules and regulations of the priests and sacrifices, it says that people have to offer up a sacrifice, even if they didn't know or mean to do the crime. Most likely, then, that same rule applies to us; even if we didn't mean to kill, and have nothing against the man in front of the gun barrel, or centered on our target screen, the act remains to tarnish our soul.

[Singh Is Back]

pockybot

Singh Is Back

If I were a true Christian, I wouldn't necessarily consider the government as Satanic, more likely just stupid. Even as a non-Christian, the government is still as stupid to me anyway..

There's waaay too many idiots with all the power these days.

I'm sure if Bush still ran things, it wouldn't have been long before we started a war against Islam itself..

_______________________


Keeping it more on topic though, isn't it surprising that such a huge piece of so-called "Christians" don't go to church, or even bother to look up their religious history?

So, keeping that in mind, do you think that alot of the younger "Christians" in the military, would even care?

Right, but I can't let the government off the hook with the "incompetence" thing. It takes an awful lot of planning and conspiracy to launch a war or two based on lies and fabrications and a lot of hidden agendas with string pulls. It seems most the wars after ww2 were based on distortions(like Vietnam) I always wonder, who benefits?

The winners of the war, obv. They get fame, and the rich get richer.

Meanwhile, the public takes the biggest toll, while the wealthy get fatter.

You gotta love the world, hm?

neutral

[augustine17]

Ubasti

augustine17

Khamsin

CH1YO

Why on earth would you start with the Crusades?

You could have at least picked a campaign that was set about for reasons that were clearly not just.

The Crusades weren't just. They were politically and financially motivated, and then thinly veiled as a religious mission. The Christians were absolutely vicious there.

if it wasn't for the crusades there would be no Christianity and most European culture would be lost they were just as important as Greece Vs. Persia

This statement reeks of bullshit.

this argument is preposterous , not only was it just pointless bashing but it also displayed no significant opposition of plausible reason but did hurt your own stand point by illuminating your historic ignorance, if the Catholic countries would have not been on the offensive they would have easily fallen to the much more united and further advanced Muslims, not only for the safety was it necesary but also for socio-economics and shared intelligence, as such aggression as the Muslims had, could not allow trade further east. Not only that but until there was mutual respect (especially militarily) peace would never have been established.

[Artemis_Alexander]

Just from reading this I've seen a lot of arguments about groups and everything but few if any have mentioned the individuals. A group does have a certain amount of control over itself but for instance if the catholics were lead by some organization or religious leader...like a pope or some thing and if large numbers of unschooled and unlearned peasants were told that they could be saved and that it was good to go to war for certain "fabricated reasons"...My point is that almost any group or ideal can do right or wrong if they allow themselves to go to an extreme. O do love that some people were quick to point out the differences in ideals and how people shouldn't be lumped in together smile . For the record I myself am an agnostic and agree with alot of the philosophy of absurdism, but I believe things differently than another agnostic might as I may have separate individual beliefs, ideals , and morals all which are very much subjective and capable of changing when confronted with new information.

[Pwn3r_F0x]

DoItMatter

I have always wondered the same thing, I think its bullshit that Christians think its ok to kill if it's for the right reason because the commandment never says "Thou shall not kill...except if you got a good reason then its ok." And if killing for the right reason is ok, then so should stealing, having affairs, and so on.

I severely doubt that you can have a righteous theft or righteous adultery. But their is a righteous kill. Unless you are one of those naive people who believes that every life is precious.

It is all about God, COUNTRY, Corps.

[Flame Illusion]

Pwn3r_F0x

DoItMatter

I have always wondered the same thing, I think its bullshit that Christians think its ok to kill if it's for the right reason because the commandment never says "Thou shall not kill...except if you got a good reason then its ok." And if killing for the right reason is ok, then so should stealing, having affairs, and so on.

I severely doubt that you can have a righteous theft or righteous adultery. But their is a righteous kill. Unless you are one of those naive people who believes that every life is precious.

It is all about God, COUNTRY, Corps.

Stealing food so that you may survive.

Cheating on your wife, because she is a b***h.

[ZechsK]

Flame Illusion

Pwn3r_F0x

DoItMatter

I have always wondered the same thing, I think its bullshit that Christians think its ok to kill if it's for the right reason because the commandment never says "Thou shall not kill...except if you got a good reason then its ok." And if killing for the right reason is ok, then so should stealing, having affairs, and so on.

I severely doubt that you can have a righteous theft or righteous adultery. But their is a righteous kill. Unless you are one of those naive people who believes that every life is precious.

It is all about God, COUNTRY, Corps.

Stealing food so that you may survive.

Cheating on your wife, because she is a b***h.

Stealing so you may survivie? Really? No soup kitchens around? Doubt anyone in the USA can pull that as a reason.

Cheating on your wife cuz she's a b***h - nope, not good enough.

Also the commandment says "murder", simplified and some other versions have kill but this is not accurate. And before someone says "bawww we don't know all the mistranslations" yes we do. We still have very old text and records of the translations and what changed with each. For e.g. there have been 4 updates to the king james and each time a complimentary book was published saying what changed, and we have copies of previous versions. We also have copies of original text preserved for e.g. on dead sea scrolls, so we really can go back to the original words and see where one translation may have gone wrong.

You must not murder
Exodus 20 (New Living Translation)

You shall not commit murder.
Exodus 20 (Amplified Bible)

You shall not murder.
Exodus 20 (New American Standard Bible)

You shall not murder.
Exodus 20 (New International Version)

Do not murder.
Exodus 20 (Contemporary English Version)

Thou dost not murder.
Exodus 20 (Young's Literal Translation)

[Djavlepik]

Ubasti

augustine17

Khamsin

CH1YO

Why on earth would you start with the Crusades?

You could have at least picked a campaign that was set about for reasons that were clearly not just.

The Crusades weren't just. They were politically and financially motivated, and then thinly veiled as a religious mission. The Christians were absolutely vicious there.

if it wasn't for the crusades there would be no Christianity and most European culture would be lost they were just as important as Greece Vs. Persia

This statement reeks of bullshit.

Actually, it is unfortunately true.

The Crusades helped keep Christianity a major power and influence over western culture (though it wouldn't have disappeared without them). But the difference here is that this WAS NOT A GOOD THING. The church discouraged innovation, sciences, art, technological advancement to any meaningful degree, and even literacy for the majority of Europeans. Thanks, christianity, for giving us the Dark Ages!

European culture would be changed, not lost, and probably for the better.

[gahad]

Violence a natural reaction in a society whose advances are limited to its new technology;