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Get your rifles, boys! It's time to water the Tree of Liberty once again.

In the past, I've stated that choosing to be defenseless is a form of insanity. There are many examples in the history of discussion where people will promote insane policies under the guise of being reasonable, and will point out to heated arguments as being fallacies of the slippery slope variety. At this point, we need to step back and realize:

This is not a slippery slope fallacy: it is reality

We have begun to produce a generation of paranoid delusional *********, Our descent toward idiocracy can only be halted by reasonable men and women who are sorely lacking from positions of power.
it has begun

Quote:

Feds seized nearly 1,500 guns in raid

Updated: Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 6:59 PM MST
Published : Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 6:59 PM MST

Crystal Gutierrez

ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) - A federal search warrant affidavit outlines the massive raid that seized nearly 1,500 firearms from the home and business of an Albuquerque man and why the feds were after him.

Last week rifles lined the lawn of a northeast Albuquerque home that belonged to Robert Adams. Homeland Security Investigations was also busy loading hundreds of handguns into boxes.

It took federal agents days to log every weapon seized into evidence.

Four search warrants filed Thursday show the HSI investigators seized nearly 900 firearms from Adams' home. There were 548 handguns and 317 rifles listed in the warrant return inventory.

They also searched his office that day taking 599 pistols and revolvers.

Adams has not been charged with any crimes although Homeland Security said the investigation is not over yet.

Neighbors said Adams was a gun collector, and some heard he was a licensed gun seller, too.

Federal investigators confirm that
. However, they're also investigating him for possible gun smuggling, tax evasion and violating importation laws.

Court documents reveal federal agents were watching Adams for years and that some documentation was missing "to determine to whom Adams [was] selling or exporting his firearms."

The guns were also not properly marked possibly to make the guns more valuable and to avoid paying high import taxes, investigators alleged.

However, a bigger concern is that no markings on the guns and missing documents mean the guns are not traceable by law enforcement.

One neighbor who did not want to be identified said it was a shock.

“I didn’t really see the guns but from a distance," the neighbor said. "I saw them being pulling them out into the front yard.

“Its very scary in the fact that the school is so close by makes it seem even more dangerous.”

The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.


Bennet here appears to be suggesting the international community will attempt to coerce by some means of unspecified (economic, physical, military, etc.) force compliance with disarmament. Unless I'm miss-hearing his statements.
Suicidesoldier#1's avatar

Fanatical Zealot

The problem is Obama has officially said he wants to ban weapons according to the assault weapon bill and then close "loop holes" like thumb hole stocks or regular stocks which make weapons easy to hold on to, or that any 1 feature in stead of 2/3, which would literally ban grips of any kind instead of just regular grips.

What is the point of all this? It makes no sense. You're going to ban guns based on the stock and grip; are you insane? O_o


I mean the argument that we are ONLY going to allow stockless sawed off shotguns or .38 special revolver pocket pistols?

I mean what the hell; you think this will stop crime, the most preferred weapons of crime. O_o


It doesn't make any sense.

You've got irrational behavior not aimed at criminals at all. You're talking about removing guns most used by regular people and least used by criminals. Based on characteristics that make a weapon more controllable and easier to use, and harder to conceal I.E. not the ideal weapon for a criminal, and yet important for someone trying to defend themselves. It really just makes no sense.
LadyBramante
Michael Noire

For the sake of a few dozen people a year - god rest their souls - you will unwittingly call for the death of millions. This kind of legislative activity is irresponsible, and the violence that follows is a far cry from peace.


For the sake of c. 8,000 American citizens a year - god rest their souls - we call for gun-throbbers to moderate their dangerous-hobby-too-close-to-the neighbours.

Every year, "self-defender" toys contribute 69% to America's murder rate.
And that murder rate is 3 times the murder rate in the rest of the 25 top developed nations in the world.

Your assumption / call to arms for gun-throbbers to shoot at the law officers of a democratic state makes a nonsense of any pretence that you're motivated by respect for the US Constitution.

A murdered person cannot hold down a job, their mortgage is foreclosed, their right to vote is revoked (except in Florida) and they are nailed into a coffin - surely a fairly significant loss of 'freedoms' ???

Other than your false, most likely made up statistic, you should try to provide some actual sources. Other than that...

You
can
shut
up
now.
GunsmithKitten's avatar

Aged Lunatic

Michael Noire
it has begun

Quote:

Feds seized nearly 1,500 guns in raid

Updated: Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 6:59 PM MST
Published : Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 6:59 PM MST

Crystal Gutierrez

ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) - A federal search warrant affidavit outlines the massive raid that seized nearly 1,500 firearms from the home and business of an Albuquerque man and why the feds were after him.

Last week rifles lined the lawn of a northeast Albuquerque home that belonged to Robert Adams. Homeland Security Investigations was also busy loading hundreds of handguns into boxes.

It took federal agents days to log every weapon seized into evidence.

Four search warrants filed Thursday show the HSI investigators seized nearly 900 firearms from Adams' home. There were 548 handguns and 317 rifles listed in the warrant return inventory.

They also searched his office that day taking 599 pistols and revolvers.

Adams has not been charged with any crimes although Homeland Security said the investigation is not over yet.

Neighbors said Adams was a gun collector, and some heard he was a licensed gun seller, too.

Federal investigators confirm that
. However, they're also investigating him for possible gun smuggling, tax evasion and violating importation laws.

Court documents reveal federal agents were watching Adams for years and that some documentation was missing "to determine to whom Adams [was] selling or exporting his firearms."

The guns were also not properly marked possibly to make the guns more valuable and to avoid paying high import taxes, investigators alleged.

However, a bigger concern is that no markings on the guns and missing documents mean the guns are not traceable by law enforcement.

One neighbor who did not want to be identified said it was a shock.

“I didn’t really see the guns but from a distance," the neighbor said. "I saw them being pulling them out into the front yard.

“Its very scary in the fact that the school is so close by makes it seem even more dangerous.”

The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.


Even with my stance and background, I can't say I sympathize too much with this cat. If you're going to own firearms, for the love of CAKE, keep up the damn paperwork on the things.

Though if he's a smuggler, ******** him. Throw him in the clink.
the level of gun favoritism and desire for ban is a spectrum, clearly. Some people believe in having a very limited number of kinds of guns that suit their specific purposes, and are willing to suggest all other firearms should be banned or confiscated. These people will claim they hold the moral high ground and attack the character of those who support guns for other reasons or desire to use firearms not on their favorites list. Then there's the "my job/income/security clearance/social status entitles me to firearms the rest of you should be denied" group. These people are more likely to favor bans or regulations and particularly the idea of registration, fine, and criminalization of anyone who is not a member of their privileged circle. They will say "only _____" should have access to some particular category of weapons and they either are members of or directly connected to this category. This is a kind of elitism.

When you begin to separate the crime of action and attach the criminal characteristic to the accoutrements, then you have begun to slip from a State of Liberty to a State of Tyranny. When I was watching "Bullet to the Head", the Asian cop was reading data on his phone and one of the "suspects" had a criminal record of "illegal possession of firearms". This same movie starred Stallone who has vocally criticized high capacity magazines and firearms. Anyone truly familiar with the First Blood/Rambo story would understand that Stallone is actually very anti-war and anti violence. His character in the movie uses a 1911 with a magazine capacity of 7 bullets.

Clearly, fans of 1911s and Bolt Action hunting rifles feel they have nothing to fear by taking away the favored tools of those outside their circle. A high capacity magazine ban has no effect on a 1911 or Bolt action Rifle. But we are talking about motivations.

The motivations of these people who use guns invented 100+ years ago are not the motivations of everyone, and simply by being different, they are being categorized as non conformist violent threats to society. This is again, a manifestation of elitism and "us vs. them". The people who are ensconced in positions of power, or safety are less likely to fight for rights they do not fear losing, and the net result is people they disagree with will be marginalized. This is the essential function of Democracy and it's gradual climb toward Aristocracy, which is what the Republic was intended to stop. To the republic, for which it stands, we describe one nation under which the liberty of the few is not infringed by the popular vote of the many.

Guns are for killing animals and guns are for killing people. Guns are for shooting targets and for managing avalanches. Guns are used to teach discipline and are used to celebrate history. Guns are used to illustrate physics and mathematics, and to refine materials sciences. Guns are used to stop criminals like thieves and murderers and rapists, but guns are also used to stop tyrants from committing genocide and to avenge the victims of genocide.

Guns have many practical purposes, but not everyone agrees on the legitimacy of all of these reasons. They become cliquish and even clandestine about why they want to propose regulation. But the net result is always the same. When you can legitimize one but not the other, or a few but not the many, you are favoring a smaller group with the intent, knowingly or otherwise, of becoming a dominant group or creating a level of social inequality.
Suicidesoldier#1's avatar

Fanatical Zealot

I say we ban drugs.

Then all the drug cartels will lose their money and the guns will stop coming.
http://news.yahoo.com/calif-seeks-adopt-nations-toughest-gun-laws-220030130.html

apparently New York is making California look conservative, so they are upping the ante.

Quote:

Weeks after New York enacted the nation's toughest gun laws, California lawmakers said Thursday they want their state to do even more in response to recent mass shootings, particularly the Connecticut school massacre.

Democrats who control the state Legislature revealed 10 proposals that they said would make California the most restrictive state for possessing firearms.

They were joined at a Capitol news conference by San Francisco Mayor Ed Lee and Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, along with several police chiefs.

"California has always been a leader on the issue of gun safety," Villaraigosa said. "New York has stepped up and stepped forward. California needs to answer the call."

Among the measures is one that would outlaw the future sale of semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines. The restriction would prevent quick reloading by requiring bullets to be loaded one at a time.

Lawmakers also want to make some prohibitions apply to current gun owners, not just to people who buy weapons in the future.

Like New York, California also would require background checks for buying ammunition and would add to the list of prohibited weapons.

Those buying ammunition would have to pay a fee and undergo an initial background check by the state Department of Justice, similar to what is required now before buyers can purchase a weapon. Subsequent background checks would be done instantly by an ammunition seller checking the Justice Department's records.

The legislation also would ban possession of magazines holding more than 10 bullets, even by those who now own them legally. All weapons would have to be registered.

Sam Paredes, executive director of Gun Owners of California, promised that gun proponents will fight the measures in court if they become law.

"It strikes me as if these folks are playing some sort of game of one-upsmanship with New York at the expense of law-abiding citizens, and that's just unconscionable," he said about lawmakers.


You know what's really sad about this? I made my opening statement before reading the article, and it was exactly what I said it would be. how f**d up is that?
Fire 0ak's avatar

Buggy Mage

I can't stand how the media tries to make gun voilence seem worse that it is by highlighting every single incident. The real problem we are having with guns is that there aren't enough sane people carrying them. If our culture became more familiar and trained with firearms these kind of shootings would be stifled.
Most the people going on shootings are cowards who seek defenseless targets. We should try to prevent those conditions, not promote them. If Utopia is a possibility, it will likely be built around self sufficiency and self reasoning. Utopia wont come to pass by handing all our trust over to a giant government entity that, we really can't even trust to not gamble our country's resources away. If a person thinks the police are trust worthy with guns or tazers or pepperspray; then I think they should seriously do more looking around on the internet for the countless circumstances in which police have killed or injured someone when it could have easily been prevented.
Miserable in Missouri:

Confiscation Coming to a Neighborhood near you:

Quote:
FIRST REGULAR SESSION

HOUSE BILL NO. 545

97TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY





INTRODUCED BY REPRESENTATIVES ELLINGER (Sponsor), SCHUPP, MCNEIL AND WALTON GRAY (Co-sponsors).

0776L.01I D. ADAM CRUMBLISS, Chief Clerk



AN ACT

To amend chapter 571, RSMo, by adding thereto one new section relating to the manufacture, import, possession, purchase, sale, or transfer of any assault weapon or large capacity magazine, with a penalty provision.


Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the state of Missouri, as follows:

Section A. Chapter 571, RSMo, is amended by adding thereto one new section, to be known as section 571.023, to read as follows:

571.023. 1. As used in this section the following terms shall mean:

(1) "Assault weapon", any:

(a) Semi-automatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and has one or more of the following:

a. A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;

b. Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the nontrigger hand;

c. A folding or telescoping stock; or

d. A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel;

(b) Semi-automatic pistol, or any semi-automatic, centerfire or rimfire rifle with a fixed magazine, that has the capacity to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition;

(c) Semi-automatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and has one or more of the following:

a. Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the nontrigger hand;

b. A folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock;

c. A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel; or

d. The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at any location outside of the pistol grip;

(d) Semi-automatic shotgun that has one or more of the following:

a. A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;

b. Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the nontrigger hand;

c. A folding or telescoping stock;

d. A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; or

e. An ability to accept a detachable magazine;

(e) Shotgun with a revolving cylinder; or

(f) Conversion kit, part, or combination of parts, from which an assault weapon can be assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.



Assault weapon does not include any firearm that has been made permanently inoperable;

(2) "Detachable magazine", an ammunition feeding device that can be loaded or unloaded while detached from a firearm and readily inserted into a firearm and includes a magazine that can be detached by merely depressing a button on the firearm either with a finger or by use of a tool or bullet;

(3) "Fixed magazine", an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action;

(4) "Large capacity magazine", any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:

(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds;

(b) A twenty-two caliber tube ammunition feeding device; or

(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

2. No person, corporation or other entity in the state of Missouri may manufacture, import, possess, purchase, sell, or transfer any assault weapon or large capacity magazine.

3. This prohibition shall not apply to:

(1) Any government officer, agent, or employee, member of the armed forces of the United States, or peace officer, to the extent that such person is otherwise authorized to acquire or possess an assault weapon or large capacity magazine, and does so while acting within the scope of his or her duties;

(2) The manufacture of an assault weapon or large capacity ammunition feeding device by a firearms manufacturer for the purpose of sale to any branch of the armed forces of the United States, or to a law enforcement agency in the state of Missouri for use by that agency or its employees, provided the manufacturer is properly licensed under federal and state laws; or

(3) The sale or transfer of an assault weapon or large capacity ammunition feeding device by a dealer that is properly licensed under federal, state, and local laws to any branch of the armed forces of the United States, or to a law enforcement agency in the state of Missouri for use by that agency or its employees for law enforcement purposes.

4. Any person who, prior to the effective date of this law, was legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine shall have ninety days from such effective date to do any of the following without being subject to prosecution:

(1) Remove the assault weapon or large capacity magazine from the state of Missouri;

(2) Render the assault weapon permanently inoperable; or

(3) Surrender the assault weapon or large capacity magazine to the appropriate law enforcement agency for destruction, subject to specific agency regulations.

5. Unlawful manufacture, import, possession, purchase, sale, or transfer of an assault weapon or a large capacity magazine is a class C felony.

WTF Washington:

Senate Bill to Criminalize more than half the state population:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/Senate Bills/5737.pdf
Quote:

18 (5) In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was
19 legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person
20 possessing the assault weapon shall do all of the following:
21 (a) Safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of
22 the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to
23 ensure compliance with this subsection;


So now the Jack booted thugs come kicking your door in to conduct Nazi like inspections and shoot you on sight when you refuse entry. If they cannot shoot you, clearly, they will set your house on fire like the LAPD did with their own. Wake up people. They are coming for your guns.
Aporeia's avatar

Lonely Ladykiller

Michael Noire
WTF Washington:

Senate Bill to Criminalize more than half the state population:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/Senate Bills/5737.pdf
Quote:

18 (5) In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was
19 legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person
20 possessing the assault weapon shall do all of the following:
21 (a) Safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of
22 the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to
23 ensure compliance with this subsection;


So now the Jack booted thugs come kicking your door in to conduct Nazi like inspections and shoot you on sight when you refuse entry. If they cannot shoot you, clearly, they will set your house on fire like the LAPD did with their own. Wake up people. They are coming for your guns.
I've lost my patience with you. I don't even think you're worth the insult I had stored for you.
Recon_Ninja_985's avatar

Dapper Entrepreneur

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Michael Noire
it has begun

Quote:

Feds seized nearly 1,500 guns in raid

Updated: Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 6:59 PM MST
Published : Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 6:59 PM MST

Crystal Gutierrez

ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) - A federal search warrant affidavit outlines the massive raid that seized nearly 1,500 firearms from the home and business of an Albuquerque man and why the feds were after him.

Last week rifles lined the lawn of a northeast Albuquerque home that belonged to Robert Adams. Homeland Security Investigations was also busy loading hundreds of handguns into boxes.

It took federal agents days to log every weapon seized into evidence.

Four search warrants filed Thursday show the HSI investigators seized nearly 900 firearms from Adams' home. There were 548 handguns and 317 rifles listed in the warrant return inventory.

They also searched his office that day taking 599 pistols and revolvers.

Adams has not been charged with any crimes although Homeland Security said the investigation is not over yet.

Neighbors said Adams was a gun collector, and some heard he was a licensed gun seller, too.

Federal investigators confirm that
. However, they're also investigating him for possible gun smuggling, tax evasion and violating importation laws.

Court documents reveal federal agents were watching Adams for years and that some documentation was missing "to determine to whom Adams [was] selling or exporting his firearms."

The guns were also not properly marked possibly to make the guns more valuable and to avoid paying high import taxes, investigators alleged.

However, a bigger concern is that no markings on the guns and missing documents mean the guns are not traceable by law enforcement.

One neighbor who did not want to be identified said it was a shock.

“I didn’t really see the guns but from a distance," the neighbor said. "I saw them being pulling them out into the front yard.

“Its very scary in the fact that the school is so close by makes it seem even more dangerous.”

The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.
well thats ******** up, they had no real basis to conduct any sort of raid.

and anything imported that was "not marked properly" is one of the most ******** up parts....

that's a new law, meaning theyre gonna try this guy for an alleged crime based on new importation laws from the 90's even if the weapons in his posession were already in country before that ******** law was put into effect.

meaning if they go ahead with prosecuting this guy...and assuming its extremely likely that he has dozens if not hundreds of these guns that were already in country for over 20 years or so, then he's gonna be wrongly punished.

he's a ******** FFL dealer for crying out loud.... that's the same thing as any gun shop owner

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