Brave New World/ 1984

[Ranallo Jenner]

I prefer the novel Around the World in 80 Days by Jules Verne. I like how it reflects a modern day depiction of how advances in transportation makes a world that used to appear expansive and mysterious seem less... expansive and mysterious.

It also accurately depicts how people can easily succumb to the peer pressure of gambling their money away.

[iMack Pro]

1984 hands down. I loved reading this book. In fact, i couldn't really read it without thinking about everything Orwell had packed into it! It was a literary masterpiece, in my mind. I loved all the symbolism and how complex, yet simple the totalitarian government of the Party was. I thoroughly enjoyed contemplating the properties of newspeak, and who's head doesn't explode when they try to rationalize [i[doublethink? rofl My favorite was the way how the Party uses perpetual war to keep the masses under control. It's both genius, and quite scary. At the end of the book, I found myself fearing for what would happen if our society turned that way! Speaking of the ending, it has the most authentic ending I have ever read in a novel. Not meant to be satisfying or to provide closure. Just to keep the mystery alive. LOVE IT.

And quick question. At the end when Orwell details, "The long hoped for bullet was entering his brain." was that a literal meaning of his death at the hands of the Party? Or perhaps was it a dual meaning, both literal death and the death of his old self?

[Andy Worhal]

Hong-Nan

I love the discourse that is going on here. Interesting opinions from all.

I love though, the contrast of sexuality in both books and how each has played out in many societies across the world. In American culture we are more Huxlian becaue we feel the need to sexulize everything that we do while in other cultures for example where FGC (Female Genatal Circumcission)is practiced the orgasm is suppressed and stiffled as is the desire for sex as a pleasurable act. I mean FGC where the whole of the organ is cut off as well as the lips sewn together leaving only a small hole for urination. I am not referencing it where people just snip a small portion of the organ and it is more for cultural traditions than to prohibit pleasure of any kind.

Consumerism is Sex.

[Hong-Nan]

iMack Pro

1984 hands down. I loved reading this book. In fact, i couldn't really read it without thinking about everything Orwell had packed into it! It was a literary masterpiece, in my mind. I loved all the symbolism and how complex, yet simple the totalitarian government of the Party was. I thoroughly enjoyed contemplating the properties of newspeak, and who's head doesn't explode when they try to rationalize [i[doublethink? rofl My favorite was the way how the Party uses perpetual war to keep the masses under control. It's both genius, and quite scary. At the end of the book, I found myself fearing for what would happen if our society turned that way! Speaking of the ending, it has the most authentic ending I have ever read in a novel. Not meant to be satisfying or to provide closure. Just to keep the mystery alive. LOVE IT.

And quick question. At the end when Orwell details, "The long hoped for bullet was entering his brain." was that a literal meaning of his death at the hands of the Party? Or perhaps was it a dual meaning, both literal death and the death of his old self?

I say that is is a dual meaing. We can never know because orwell died and I wish I could ask him about this.

[Thorz]

ch-ch-chupacabra

I like 1984 better myself, but Huxley's idea that we could have so much entertainment that we simply can't be concerned with real issues maybe reflects on us a little more

I second that. Every generation is "harder to amuse", in a sense, and it ends up with people banalizing stuff that would at least cuse a rection on people from decades ago.
And I mean bad stuff as well. Today's people hardly get shoked by stuff wich would scared the hell out of people before; and it's not just a fact of "currently improved knowlege of science" that causes that. People simply don't care much anymore -about anything and everything.

[Hong-Nan]

Thorz

ch-ch-chupacabra

I like 1984 better myself, but Huxley's idea that we could have so much entertainment that we simply can't be concerned with real issues maybe reflects on us a little more

I second that. Every generation is "harder to amuse", in a sense, and it ends up with people banalizing stuff that would at least cuse a rection on people from decades ago.
And I mean bad stuff as well. Today's people hardly get shoked by stuff wich would scared the hell out of people before; and it's not just a fact of "currently improved knowlege of science" that causes that. People simply don't care much anymore -about anything and everything.

I have to agree. In the 1950's people thought that damn it was a curse word. Now people think you are very reserved if you call that a curse. But I think that society is shifting back towards a more reserved society. I do not know if this is a good thing or not yet.

[Thorz]

Hong-Nan

I have to agree. In the 1950's people thought that damn it was a curse word. Now people think you are very reserved if you call that a curse. But I think that society is shifting back towards a more reserved society. I do not know if this is a good thing or not yet.

This you mention is a small example, but worthy mentioning. However, I disagree we are being more "reserved". With all the exposure -to everything, from violence to sex, and from religion to science- and also the globlization, we've never been so "open", wheter we want/like it or not.

[Eska Is My Waifu]

Brave New World.

T

[skylarklovesme]

I have a hard time picking a more interesting one, although Brave New World is probably one of my favorite books. I think that Brave New World, in a way, functions as kind of a sequel to 1984. In 1984, Big Brother had to continually monitor citizens and enforce the ideals of the establishment. I believe that Brave New World depicts a society in which Big Brother has succeeded; the ideals of the establishment have persisted and have been so well internalized that people no longer need to be monitored because they have lost the ability to think independently.

[Jaybone_05]

I prefer Brave New World
The over sexed and over drugged land of plenty was a great mirror to our current society. Though I actually consider Brave New World one of the better dystopian societies that actually has an appeal to consider.
Rather than 'Fahrenheit 451' and '1984' whose societies are severely flawed.

I also see '1984' as more of a reference to Communist Russia as a lot of those fake trials also happened in Russia and the government really focused on tracking the people closest to the government.

[delicious pasta]

I liked Brave New World more, I think it's closer to where we are now than 1984 since we're beginning to accept and encourage our own indoctrination. We want to live in a bubble full of entertainment and leisure at the expense of everything outside, we want to take everything good about being human and do away with the bad. We'd love for everything to be a giant ********, it's the lowest star we can shoot for, since we realize now more than ever that we're not gonna fly too high.

[catspook]

I prefer 1984 mostly because the ambiguous ending of Brave New World drove me nuts (I HATE ambiguous endings) - I also never really connected with Brave New World because the society is so driven by sex and I am asexual (although I did not know that at the time I read it - I just knew I was not connecting with it and didn't know why).

[rulbld pdak]

I haven't read through 1984 cover to cover yet, so I cannot offer a substantive opinion on it at this time. The style did not appeal to me as much as did that of Brave New World. The ambiguous ending of Brave New World didn't quite work for me either, but I know people who have enjoyed reading it. ...The utter madness of "soma" and "the Feelies" was highly absorbing, and the hypnosis therapy was incredibly creepy.

[Count Army Leader]

The New Wineskin

Brave New World, primarily because it more accurately reflects the modern world. While in 1984, Big Brother uses oppression and censorship to control and manipulate the peoples to His will, Brave New World shows a world of distraction. The government mandates a stream of entertainment industry that overshadows the actions of the governments and political issues. Soon after, the want for entertainment will reduced the amount of people who genuinely sought out knowledge; this was helped by censorship of science, which was viewed as harmful to the State as it is the seeking of truth by its very nature.

The symbolism is more powerful, the writing is better (in my opinion), and the themes and events in the book more closely fit reality than 1984 do, even if both can very well occur in some sense or another.

You say that Brave New World fits closer to reality than 1984 does, and yet with 1984 you can see a definite link with actual societies now and in the past. For example, 1984 can be seen to be based off of Russia and it's Empire in 1900-1917 and from then on, and even uses the same names for peasants (Proles in 1984 Proletariat in Russian society)
You can also see huge links in control and censorship between the book and North Korea at the moment, especially with the use of continuous propoganda that you can turn down but never turn off (radios in North Korea but Televisions in 1984).
So, through this you can see that the Totalitarian dictation is already occuring and has happened, of course not over the whole world, but it has occured.
But Brave New World's theories can also be seen in today, however they are only at the beginning of their process, and so have yet to fully be seen to occur/ have occured.

?

[The New Wineskin]

Count Army Leader

The New Wineskin

Brave New World, primarily because it more accurately reflects the modern world. While in 1984, Big Brother uses oppression and censorship to control and manipulate the peoples to His will, Brave New World shows a world of distraction. The government mandates a stream of entertainment industry that overshadows the actions of the governments and political issues. Soon after, the want for entertainment will reduced the amount of people who genuinely sought out knowledge; this was helped by censorship of science, which was viewed as harmful to the State as it is the seeking of truth by its very nature.

The symbolism is more powerful, the writing is better (in my opinion), and the themes and events in the book more closely fit reality than 1984 do, even if both can very well occur in some sense or another.

You say that Brave New World fits closer to reality than 1984 does, and yet with 1984 you can see a definite link with actual societies now and in the past. For example, 1984 can be seen to be based off of Russia and it's Empire in 1900-1917 and from then on, and even uses the same names for peasants (Proles in 1984 Proletariat in Russian society)
You can also see huge links in control and censorship between the book and North Korea at the moment, especially with the use of continuous propoganda that you can turn down but never turn off (radios in North Korea but Televisions in 1984).
So, through this you can see that the Totalitarian dictation is already occuring and has happened, of course not over the whole world, but it has occured.
But Brave New World's theories can also be seen in today, however they are only at the beginning of their process, and so have yet to fully be seen to occur/ have occured.

?

Let me rephrase that, then: Brave New World better fits modern, capitalistic society than that of 1984. razz