Blissful ignorance of religion: Why ******** it up?

[Andre LeFarr]

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

But if I understand my own happiness comes from religious faith, then why should I not attempt to attain it?

[Andre LeFarr]

Fittle

Choosing to interpret reality based specifically on how happy it makes you is just an odd thing to do. Usually harmless, no doubt, but the fact remains.

As you can guess from my signature, I don't really give a damn if its odd.

[Auntie Proton]

Gho the Girl

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

Really? I'd like you to show how knowledge as opposed to ignorance is bliss.

It presumes that people are naturally happy and that knowledge is inherent contrary to that happiness.
This would be the case if that were true, along with the other two presumptions.
1) Most activities cause people to learn [i.e. any non-repetitive task does this.]
2) Knowledge reduces happiness.
3) People learn faster than they forget.
4) People becomes sadder as they age.
Besides this, I have become happier as I have become more aware of myself and my surroundings. This is problematic to the idea of such a principle being universal if it were true.

My primary reasoning why knowledge brings happiness is because the person becomes more capable of understanding and acting in their environment and thus is happier because they are more satisfied by their actions. If a person seeks to understand himself or herself, he or she would be happier from this because of a loss of inconsistency and because of the reasons stated above about knowledge in general. They would understand their capabilities much better and therefore use them to greater accuracy and predictability.

[Fittle]

Gho the Girl

Fittle

Choosing to interpret reality based specifically on how happy it makes you is just an odd thing to do. Usually harmless, no doubt, but the fact remains.

how is it odd?

Reality is something that affects everything uniformly, if you believe that something is universally true just because it's the truth that you prefer you're either universally arrogant or forcing yourself not to consider the implication.

That isn't to say that all religious people are either arrogant or ignorant, just the ones who elect to be religious solely because it makes them happy.

[Fittle]

Andre LeFarr

Fittle

Choosing to interpret reality based specifically on how happy it makes you is just an odd thing to do. Usually harmless, no doubt, but the fact remains.

As you can guess from my signature, I don't really give a damn if its odd.

We'd have to get a better definition of odd. I'm a furry too, lots of my friends are.

[Auntie Proton]

Andre LeFarr

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

But if I understand my own happiness comes from religious faith, then why should I not attempt to attain it?

I would argue that understanding that is genuinely impossible, as I consider it an arbitrary method to bring forth a particular emotion, and that it is the bringing about of that emotion that brings you happiness, not the faith itself. Also, does your faith give you continuous happiness, or merely happiness when you enact it?

[Andre LeFarr]

Auntie Proton

Gho the Girl

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

Really? I'd like you to show how knowledge as opposed to ignorance is bliss.

It presumes that people are naturally happy and that knowledge is inherent contrary to that happiness.
This would be the case if that were true, along with the other two presumptions.
1) Most activities cause people to learn [i.e. any non-repetitive task does this.]
2) Knowledge reduces happiness.
3) People learn faster than they forget.
4) People becomes sadder as they age.
Besides this, I have become happier as I have become more aware of myself and my surroundings. This is problematic to the idea of such a principle being universal if it were true.

My primary reasoning why knowledge brings happiness is because the person becomes more capable of understanding and acting in their environment and thus is happier because they are more satisfied by their actions. If a person seeks to understand himself or herself, he or she would be happier from this because of a loss of inconsistency.

I would argue neither knowledge nor ignorance is bliss. Bliss is bliss, and the means of attaining that are variable.

I am not arguing for complete ignorance of the world around one. I am arguing for contentment. I want to be happy. I want to be fulfilled. If I gain pleasure from knowledge (say, of a comic book plotline or an enjoyable story) then this is good. If I gain pleasure from lack of knowledge, then this is also good, PROVIDED that my lack of knowledge is not harmful to myself or others.

If I choose to envision a stormy ocean as a calm one, this is not a problem UNTIL I take actions based upon my belief that the sea is calm (say, going for a light stroll about the deck)

[Talking Toad]

Auntie Proton

Gho the Girl

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

Really? I'd like you to show how knowledge as opposed to ignorance is bliss.

It presumes that people are naturally happy and that knowledge is inherent contrary to that happiness.
This would be the case if that were true, along with the other two presumptions.
1) Most activities cause people to learn [i.e. any non-repetitive task does this.]
2) Knowledge reduces happiness.
3) People learn faster than they forget.
4) People becomes sadder as they age.
Besides this, I have become happier as I have become more aware of myself and my surroundings. This is problematic to the idea of such a principle being universal if it were true.

My primary reasoning why knowledge brings happiness is because the person becomes more capable of understanding and acting in their environment and thus is happier because they are more satisfied by their actions. If a person seeks to understand himself or herself, he or she would be happier from this because of a loss of inconsistency and because of the reasons stated above about knowledge in general. They would understand their capabilities much better and therefore use them to greater accuracy and predictability.

If I may interject can I suggest that there is a point where your concept takes a reversal and the more you know the unhappier you are? I know someone with that very problem. He was happier when he was young, due to the reasons you listed mostly, but as he grew and came to the conclusions of the world and it's filth at an early age he became more and more depressed from knowing that in the end the happiness he felt was superficial to begin with.

To put it simply there is a point where knowledge and happiness diverge.

[Andre LeFarr]

Fittle

Andre LeFarr

Fittle

Choosing to interpret reality based specifically on how happy it makes you is just an odd thing to do. Usually harmless, no doubt, but the fact remains.

As you can guess from my signature, I don't really give a damn if its odd.

We'd have to get a better definition of odd. I'm a furry too, lots of my friends are.

I'm willing to make a wager with you, though. You know more people who aren't furries than who are.

Making it odd. Not unhappy. Simply odd.

[Gho the Girl]

Auntie Proton

Gho the Girl

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

Really? I'd like you to show how knowledge as opposed to ignorance is bliss.

It presumes that people are naturally happy and that knowledge is inherent contrary to that happiness.
This would be the case if that were true, along with the other two presumptions.
1) Most activities cause people to learn [i.e. any non-repetitive task does this.]
2) Knowledge reduces happiness.
3) People learn faster than they forget.
4) People becomes sadder as they age.
Besides this, I have become happier as I have become more aware of myself and my surroundings. This is problematic to the idea of such a principle being universal if it were true.

My primary reasoning why knowledge brings happiness is because the person becomes more capable of understanding and acting in their environment and thus is happier because they are more satisfied by their actions. If a person seeks to understand himself or herself, he or she would be happier from this because of a loss of inconsistency and because of the reasons stated above about knowledge in general. They would understand their capabilities much better and therefore use them to greater accuracy and predictability.

Knowledge can bring bliss, but it can also bring pain. You implicated that Knowledge is the source of bliss as opposed to ignorance.

Knowledge =/= knowing oneself. And honestly, if one truly knows oneself, you will know all your faults. All the ways you won't succeed. For instance, I know I will never be a bestselling author. Or a great movie director. In fact, with my abilities, I'd be fortunate to earn a living wage, working until I die.

When you refer to Knowledge, you imply that all things that fall under that, knowing about the masses of flora and fauna that die every day, nay every second, the number of extinct species to date and the number of species that will go extinct within our lifetime. Hey, I'm not even going to touch the downfalls of this economy, and all the knowledge of how hard that's going to make life.

Hell, not knowing how I'm going to die, how many people I'll have to date, fall in love with, and break off from until I find the person(s) I will spend the rest of my life with, how many of my friends will turn on me, how many children will die of starvation or strife in the coming year, or which one of my friends will perish far before I think they should have, that bunch of information I don't know, that I am ignorant of, gives me bliss.

So therefore, your assertion that knowledge as opposed to ignorance is bliss is untrue.

[Fittle]

Talking Toad

Auntie Proton

Gho the Girl

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

Really? I'd like you to show how knowledge as opposed to ignorance is bliss.

It presumes that people are naturally happy and that knowledge is inherent contrary to that happiness.
This would be the case if that were true, along with the other two presumptions.
1) Most activities cause people to learn [i.e. any non-repetitive task does this.]
2) Knowledge reduces happiness.
3) People learn faster than they forget.
4) People becomes sadder as they age.
Besides this, I have become happier as I have become more aware of myself and my surroundings. This is problematic to the idea of such a principle being universal if it were true.

My primary reasoning why knowledge brings happiness is because the person becomes more capable of understanding and acting in their environment and thus is happier because they are more satisfied by their actions. If a person seeks to understand himself or herself, he or she would be happier from this because of a loss of inconsistency and because of the reasons stated above about knowledge in general. They would understand their capabilities much better and therefore use them to greater accuracy and predictability.

If I may interject can I suggest that there is a point where your concept takes a reversal and the more you know the unhappier you are? I know someone with that very problem. He was happier when he was young, due to the reasons you listed mostly, but as he grew and came to the conclusions of the world and it's filth at an early age he became more and more depressed from knowing that in the end the happiness he felt was superficial to begin with.

To put it simply there is a point where knowledge and happiness diverge.

Only if your happiness depends utterly on things which your understanding antagonizes.

[Andre LeFarr]

Auntie Proton

Andre LeFarr

Auntie Proton

Knowledge of the self allows for a person to understand their own happiness and attain it. Therefore, if I am to maximize happiness, I could employ such a method and be successful.
Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is nothing and does nothing for or against happiness. Knowledge is bliss.
In fact, I think I'll make that my signature.

But if I understand my own happiness comes from religious faith, then why should I not attempt to attain it?

I would argue that understanding that is genuinely impossible, as I consider it an arbitrary method to bring forth a particular emotion, and that it is the bringing about of that emotion that brings you happiness, not the faith itself. Also, does your faith give you continuous happiness, or merely happiness when you enact it?

It is possible to understand that it is a successful method.

Also, could you explain what "enacting" one's faith is?

[Fittle]

Andre LeFarr

Fittle

Andre LeFarr

Fittle

Choosing to interpret reality based specifically on how happy it makes you is just an odd thing to do. Usually harmless, no doubt, but the fact remains.

As you can guess from my signature, I don't really give a damn if its odd.

We'd have to get a better definition of odd. I'm a furry too, lots of my friends are.

I'm willing to make a wager with you, though. You know more people who aren't furries than who are.

Making it odd. Not unhappy. Simply odd.

You might lose that wager. i'd have to ask around, though, i haven't been so curious.

anyway, are unusual or atypical things inherently odd? i'll have to visit the dictionary.

[Auntie Proton]

Andre LeFarr

I would argue neither knowledge nor ignorance is bliss. Bliss is bliss, and the means of attaining that are variable.

I am not arguing for complete ignorance of the world around one. I am arguing for contentment. I want to be happy. I want to be fulfilled. If I gain pleasure from knowledge (say, of a comic book plotline or an enjoyable story) then this is good. If I gain pleasure from lack of knowledge, then this is also good, PROVIDED that my lack of knowledge is not harmful to myself or others.

If I choose to envision a stormy ocean as a calm one, this is not a problem UNTIL I take actions based upon my belief that the sea is calm (say, going for a light stroll about the deck)

My main qualms with religion is that it is irrelevant. Though, I am against ignorance in all of its forms for other reasons.
The problem with your idea is that it is inherently based upon knowledge. You must know something in order to have become blissful by it. Even knowing nothing would be such knowledge [not the absence of information, but to understand what such a thing would be.]. Basically, knowledge is a means by which continuous bliss can be attained, as the identification and modification of one's behavior and goals to possibility and appropriateness would inherently have one be constantly achieving those goals, and therefore be constantly happy. Though, that goal could be absolutely nothing, but it would still require knowledge to maintain.
The problem with bliss derived from nothing is that it requires knowledge to maintain.
Through knowledge, I gain bliss.

[Ayures]

Andre LeFarr

Alright, the way I see it is... If the atheists are right, right? I don't think they are, but if they are... Then when you die, then you're dead, right? And there's nothing left, you're just dead.

So... How does it HELP to convert people from religion?

If being right provides no actual BENEFIT, then isn't it better to be happy than to be right? If believing it doesn't HURT anyone, why does it MATTER if they believe it?

Now, I'm not talking about arguing with people who start the argument... But why always jump on it if all they're doing is going to church?

Life is sort of meaningless, isn't it? So being wrong, if it doesn't HARM you, well... It doesn't HARM you. So why all the arguing about it?

Really, what I'm getting at here is why does truth actually MATTER?

Religions, quite obviously, influence your beliefs, morals, etc. This, in turn, affects how you vote. Your vote, likely on a bill proposed by another person of religion (probably part of the 79% of the US population that is Christian), then directly affects my life. Depending on the law that gets passed, it very well can harm me.
That said, I've never bothered trying to 'convert' people unless they question my faith (or lack thereof), though I do wish people would just do away with the whole 'religion-based decisions' thing and stick to logic.