Sisyphus in Tartarus
Hygienic Pal
PLEASE READ ENTIRE OP BEFORE COMMENTING:
I'm tired of these stupid one-liners from users who obviously are going off of the images alone. This is the ED after all.
I'm tired of these stupid one-liners from users who obviously are going off of the images alone. This is the ED after all.
Quote:
It’s been a huge disappointment to hear about the casting for Avatar’s live-action movie. The show was heavily influenced by Asian culture, some of the characters were even modeled after Asian members of the crew. But now, with the pre-dominantly white cast, it feels like all the Asian/Eastern influences, origins, what have you, were just a backdrop for these characters. But I always believed they were Asian, or even mixed Asian. And that belief added a little extra pride in working on such a great show. The appreciation Mike & Bryan had for Asian culture, the interest it generated in the fans, gave ME greater appreciation for my own culture.
So it’s just hard to believe they couldn’t find one Asian actor to hold any of the lead protagonist parts. Not one? This film is going to feel like some other Avatar story.
- Dao Le, Animatic Editor, Avatar: The Last Airbender
So it’s just hard to believe they couldn’t find one Asian actor to hold any of the lead protagonist parts. Not one? This film is going to feel like some other Avatar story.
- Dao Le, Animatic Editor, Avatar: The Last Airbender
Quote:
I just received words from the movie producers. They are not going to use Chinese calligraphy at all, replacing it with unreadable symbols. I won’t be participating in the movie.
It is not only a disappointment on the cast. They are removing all the successful elements of the original TV series. I think that would keep a lot of Asian audience away.
I am disappointed to learn that the Avatar movie has removed the successful cultural elements of the original Avatar TV series. Whether this is a right decision will be seen in the box office.
- Professor Siu-Leung Lee, cultural consultant, Avatar: The Last Airbender
It is not only a disappointment on the cast. They are removing all the successful elements of the original TV series. I think that would keep a lot of Asian audience away.
I am disappointed to learn that the Avatar movie has removed the successful cultural elements of the original Avatar TV series. Whether this is a right decision will be seen in the box office.
- Professor Siu-Leung Lee, cultural consultant, Avatar: The Last Airbender
SIGN THE PETITION!!!
To start off, who has heard or has seen Avatar: The Last Airbender? I know there are some people here that have...
Now, think of actors and actresses that could FIT or accurately portray the roles, especially the main characters, in that universe. Are you thinking Asians? Native Americans? Maybe some
Latin Americans? Did you think that it was great opportunity for people of a different ethnicity to star in this adaption? I thought so too, and so did everyone else until they unveiled what they did...
Behold, the first pictures of the Live-Action version of The Last Airbender:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2009-05-21-airbender-first-look_N.htm
http://pics.livejournal.com/dndragonmare/pic/0006z494/
For fans, or people that have glimpsed the actual animated series, there is something wrong here... To even display it further:
http://racebending.com/ (PLEASE look at the photos posted of the characters, and the actors in comparison! Also, the Avatar: Image Essay link to the right-hand side when you scroll down! )
Still see anything wrong? If you noticed that the character portrayals of Avatar, in comparison to the actors/actress that was hired to portray them are incorrect, the you win an internet cookie (and pie!).
This is (a very long) gist of what's happening:
A year ago in December, Entertainment magazine in the US had covered a small article about the live-action 'The Last Airbender' movie. Everyone was excited about it, until the actors were revealed... To be Caucasian (and one dark-skinned 'antagonist.') Not Native American or Inuits for the members of the Water Tribe, not Asian for our beloved last Airbender or exiled Prince but Caucasian for Aang, Katara, Sokka, and Zuko. Noah Ringer is the 'karate practitioner' that was PICKED to play Aang, while Nicole Peltz and Jackson Rathborne (this guy of Twilight fame) are picked to play the very OBVIOUSLY (dark-skinned) Inuit-inspired Water Tribe siblings, Katara and Sokka. And teen idol, Jesse McCartney was to play that role, but due to a suspicious 'scheduling conflict,' he was dropped and was replaced.
The replacement for our exiled Prince? Indian/British actor of Slumdog Millionare fame, Dev Patel. It should be fine, right? Wrong again! Now this mirrors the sentiments of post-9/11 and the Iraq War, in which the US now pinpoints that ANYONE that looks Middle Eastern as 'evil.' (A little story: in High School, there was this guy in Ceramics class that said this, and added that all 'Middle Easterns should be bombed and killed.' THAT pissed me off and I told him that not all were like that, but he still stuck by it. That has haunted me, and bothered me since then, even today).
Now, I have to admit, when I first saw the pictures of the actor and actress that were to play Katara and Sokka, nothing clicked in my brain. Then I started to read the reactions and comments of various different people, from not only the fans, but others that either have not watched the show, or did a little bit and see the glaring errors. That's when I looked again and realized that: 's**t... That does look SO wrong...'
And, as more and more information about the live-action came out, it became obvious that Paramount (the company that Micheal Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko, then sold the Avatar rights to) does not care about the fanbase, nor the accurate portrayals of what the actual Avatar characters are suppose to be.
This is how the animation version of Avatar's inhabitants and the influences of culture were portrayed:
Air Nomads: Tibetans
Fire Nation: Japanese, Chinese
Earth Kingdom: Vietnamese, Korean (then, there is Guru Pathik who is Indian)
Water Tribe: Inuit/Yupik
Now, the live-action movie's version is this:
Air Nomads: Caucasian
Water Tribe: Caucasian
Earth Kingdom: Asian and 'others' in the mix
Fire Nation: (East) Indian
So...wait... when did I see any indication of a character named 'Bob' running around in the Avatar universe?
By the way, at a casting call in Philly, a casting director had the NERVE to say this when finding extras for this movie: 'If you're Korean, wear a kimono.' And, among other offensive and ignorant quotes regarding culture and ethnicity.
Yeah, excuse me? Anyone that KNOWS some Asian cultures, can tell that kimonos are JAPANESE! Koreans wear HANBOKS! I know that I'm not the only person that just went, 'What...the...HELL' at that quote!
In other words, Hollywood is cheaply screwing the essence of the show, just to make a quick buck. -_-;
The budget, by the way, is reported to be around US$250 million for ALL THREE MOVIES (aka Books 1-3)! Hollywood, don't you KNOW that no matter how BIG the budget of a movie is, and how 'spectacular' the effects are, that if you do NOT retain the essence of WHAT MADE IT A HIT AMONG FANS, then you are MISSING THE POINT! :headdesk:
Seriously, I feel sorry for kids that do not have any characters from TV shows or movies to look up to, that are their own race and are portrayed in a non-stereotypical way. When every hero, is defaulted to the standard race. Avatar was probably the only animated series to star characters that are not the standard Caucasian heroes, non-stereotypical, and portray the different cultures in the universe in a very, respectful way (I will still remember that 'Aunt Who (Hu)? No, Aunt Wu'-joke, because it did make me chuckle). Seriously, despite complaints about Katara, I loved her anyway because she was a strong, female character. I never see ANY strong female characters like her in any show for kids (or in anime...), not to mention her inspiration from actual Inuits is what drew me too. Now the live-action movie just stripped her character down, from her ethnicity, to probably her personality. Thus also, making kids that could RELATE to her, and other characters of Avatar, entirely lost and feel more inferior now.
Now, here's the real kicker: Ever wonder WHY there are not that many Asian-American, or Native American actors/actresses in TVs and movies? Can you NAME a lot of prominent Asian-American/Native American actors/actresses on TV and in movies? And no... Jet Li, and Jackie Chan don't count, because they still live in China. >_>;;
Asian-American actors I know are: Masi Oka, George Takei, Johnny Young Bosch (he's half Korean, but...eh...), Kal Penn, John Cho, Sandra Oh, Margaret Cho (Comedian, but I wanted to add her), Jason Kyson Lee, and Sendhil Ramamurthy. For Native American actors... none, sadly... Other actors/actresses I know are mainly from and are native to Japan only, and only a few Chinese and Korean stars.
There are never that many roles offered to them. No good roles fitting of the 'hero' image like Nakamura Hiro is. Mostly, the roles that aspiring Asian-Americans, or Native American/First Nations receive and accept, are mostly the stereotypical roles of delivery guys, the 'engrish' forgieners, uncivilized savages, and evil villains. The women are portrayed as 'exotic commodities' and not as humans. Or, when they do call for something 'diverse,' everyone is either just second, or third in command, or 'just there' in the background as extras.
When there IS a role for an obvious Asian or Native American character, just like in the case of Avatar, it doesn't go to any one of that descent, but to... Caucasian actors. Don't believe me? Look back to the Avatar characters, and the actor/actress counterparts. What is being done there is suppose to be illegal, but it is STILL practiced this day and age! It's called 'Yellowfacing,' and it is the same as 'Blackfacing.' In fact, the movie '21' was actually based on a true story that involved Asian-American students who were gambling. But Hollywood changed it to 3 Caucasians and 1 Asian character in that adaption. Why they did that, I will never know. Had they stuck with what was originally told and portrayed, I would have paid money to see it.
Now, this issue is not without people that don't see anything wrong with how the movie is being handled. There are fans that think something like racial bias one actors should not be discussed, and WILL STILL go see the movie, despite that the Avatar characters are portrayed inaccurately. Some of the excuses from a lot of people who are defending this practice as that 'Asians, Native Americans, and other minorities are not good actors/actresses.' And they claimed that 'there were NOT MANY minorities to find for these parts.' If that's true... then how come Nakamura Hiro is the most POPULAR character of Heroes, and the actor also WON a Golden Globe for that role, on top of THAT?! And, why did we have TONS OF Native American extras and actors (that most had to be turned away) trying to audition for the roles in the New Moon movie of the Twilight series, in which they HAD TO PROVE their heritage with certificates?! Even I read that the casting director for the Avatar animation, went as far as to find actual Asian actors/actresses to voice the characters! Not that many? There are a lot of us, but it's because of stupid TV producers and movie executives that don't give us a chance to portray characters that are not stereotyped, or they GIVE that role to someone else that could 'act more Asian/Native American/Middle Eastern/etc..'! Mr. Moto or Breakfast at Tiffany's anyone?
...And then, there is the very tiring comment of, 'Well the characters of Avatar ACT American, and LOOK Caucasian!' as a way to justify the casting on the Live-Action adaption. As with anyone that is a fan of anime, and watch it a lot, that is not true. Seriously, if it's one thing anime has taught me, is to LOOK and READ UP a character's personal profile. How the HELL can you tell if the members of Black Lagoon or D. Gray-man are of different, racial backgrounds?! It's also like saying that the cast of Bleach and Naruto, or ANY anime that is set in Japan, is 'American' when their profiles and names are VERY obvious! Just because the style is indistinguishable from American comics or something, does not make every character 'Caucasian' on default! For people that have NEVER seen an anime, I might cut them slack and explain to them. But people that have seen anime, know that it is from Japan, and draw conclusions like this, good lord.. it's like saying, I'm Japanese but I'm not 'American' (or Canadian, heh...) enough just because I have my own mind to think out loud about!
I hope people understand what I'm saying (despite that, this seems to have turned into a rant and a very long rant to boot... new record! razz ), because a lot of people that are AGAINST what Paramount have, done are fighting this. It looks like all is lost, but we ARE planning to boycott this movie when it comes out. Also, a lot of prominent media outlets, group advocates, and some celebrities are supporting this cause. The group MANAA (Media Action Network for Asian Americans) is one of the group advocates, as well as East West Players. Those two were involved with the Avatar production, and it's members included the late Mako (Uncle Iroh), Dante Basco (Zuko), George Takei (The Warden), and many other VAs that were in Avatar. Even Korean-American comedian Margaret Cho is supporting the movement too!
For more information please go to:
-Aang Aint White (a page where you can write a letter to the Producers of Paramount, and sign a petition): http://aang-aint-white.livejournal.com/646.html
-Racebending.com (the website, which is very informative on the issue here at hand, links and has cited what Pramount has quoted, including that 'Korean=Kimono' quote, and among related topics): http://racebending.com/index.php
-MANAA(Media Action Network for Asian Americans): http://www.manaa.org/
Facebook and Livejournal also have their own, if you want to join, please sign up! smile
Also, writing to various newspapers, magazines, blogs, and any other ways to get the message across to everyone, that doing something like this is WRONG. Because, if we just sit on our butts, let this slide and not do a damn thing, NOTHING will change! it WILL be another Dragonball Evolution all over again! And, you don't want that to happen, do you? sad
If you have made it this far, I do THANK YOU GUYS for your patience to read this, at the bottom of my heart! Also, please tell me to clarify certain things, or tell me what does not make sense in this note. Writing a VERY long post is something... I lose sight of, and overdo a lot... (plus, it DID take me hours to write this, considering I am insomniac now...) ^^;
Vixianna
I'm sorry I just can't take it anymore! The more I read about this injustice the angrier I get. This is obvious and ridiculous levels of racism. Every* white person in America thinks/acts like the default for any non-stereotyped personality filled fully-fleshed character is white. It's obscene and offensive. If you think just because this world is never directly called earth, and is a "fantasy" that it gives you the right to culture and canon-rape the living daylights out of something, YOU ARE WRONG There is a lot more to a character than just looks. Everything from the characters clothing, favorite foods, and mannerisms makes a character from a specific culture.
It's just as bad as making Superman black, when he was raised in Kansas by Mr. and Mrs. White farmer, and went to Metropolis aka Chicago/New York. It's like making the titular character of blade White( He's a black man if you didn't know). And in fact, it like making spiderman black or Asian. It's. the. same. thing. Their ethnicity has as much to do with the character as the struggles the character goes through, because their culture is influenced by their ethnicity and, as such, colors the world through their eyes. And so their responses to it.
If for one minute you think that the Avatar world isn't Asian, you are either willfully ignorant or absurdly racist. Their clothing, their hair, their food, their architecture, their manners, their religions and their belief-systems, their customs, their utensils, their agriculture and food staples, AND their skin tones are soooo far from white and soooo steeped in Asian/Inuit/even South American culture that it is ridiculous to even pretend the characters themselves are not Asian. Just because the characters don't fit you people's(you dissenters) stereotypes of what Asians should look and act like doesn't make them not Asian, and even more so doesn't make them white by default.
I'm going to examine each main character in depth to prove they are Asian. And then I'm going to explain why white-washing and making every character but the villian white is not only offensive, but completely detracts from the tale of unity and diversity.
Aang, the Avatar. The main protagonist and character. He is currently being portrayed by Jonny white boy from Texas.
Aang in the source material, is heavily influenced by ( in all intensive purposes IS) Tibetan monks. The Air-nomads that Aang represents, live in temples, separated by sex, in relative simple life styles. They eat no meat, respect all life, and seek to live free from worldly attachments as untethered as the air itself. Aang's fighting style is fluid and free representing Air. It has a real world counter part: Ba Gua from China and practiced in Tibet. Aang, like other air bending masters, shaves his head. As do actual IRL Tibetan monks. Aang also has black hair, as do most people of Tibetan decent. Since I am talking about Aang, I will talk about the Avatar as a concept itself.
Avatar in concept, comes from Hinduism (Indian-yup Asian). It also uses reincarnation like the the Tulku Lama( as in the current Lama (Dali) ) and they found out Aang was the Avatar using the exact same methods, by having him pick from toys and seeing that he picked the same toys previous Avatars(Lama) played with/choose.
Katara/Sokka are being played, once again by Whitey Mcjoe/chick. They are other main characters, and in the source material are just as if not more important than Aang himself. They support Aang and even find and free him from the ice berg, with Katara acting as Aang's waterbending teacher. Both of the siblings (and they are actually twins in the source material) are from heavily influence by (read IS) Inuit-"like" culture. They are brown skinned and dark-haired like Inuits( yes Inuits have brown hair) and they live at the South Pole, with another tribe in the North.(Just like Inuits.) They live in tents built just like in Inuit culture, and they eat primarily seal, with Sokka often professing his love of meat and seal jerky. The waterbending style uses an enemies power against him, and is based on: Tai chi.
Tai chi is from China. Another Asian influence in the Watertribe is the ying/yang koi fish that represent the Moon and Sea at the spirit Oasis. It is from this push and pull of the tides that the waterbenders learned to well..bend. They can't have one without the other, this is why there is a white/black dote in the opposite color. And why Waterbenders can't bend w/o water(duh) or the moon.
Finally, there's Zuko. Arguably, the "whitest"-looking character in the show. He is a bad guy in the first season, and so this in adaption. And there is little/no redemption in the first season, and there will most likely be none to save time in the movie. Zuko is being played by the lead from the Hit Slum-dog Millionaire. He is the only dark-skinned character in the casting, and the character he is originally supposed to be portraying is very light-skinned. Not a single* white person has protested him being dark now. confused You would think they would be angry with the most complex and interesting character in the show with the biggest character arc and development being played dark as "unfair".
But it doesn't matter, because he is a villain now. Oh but hold the phone! Shouldn't those minorities be happy that he is "one of us"? Nope. Not because he's the villain, not even because he's the only dark-skinned person fighting white heroes, but because it is totally untrue to the source material. Zuko's culture is either feudal Japan or China. It seems to be a combination of both at times. As such, making him Southeast Asian is not only not the same thing, it doesn't even look like the same character and sends the wrong message when the protagonists, who were all "white-washed" are against him. Zuko's firenation architecture is a combination of Feudal china/Japan in origin with Pagoda-like elements. They have an official ruling family, a royalty.( That the other characters taken from eek other Asian cultures don't have.) This is very feudal Japan/China, relating to the emperor of either culture. The firenation is an Island nation(like Japan) has an amazingly strong Navy(like Japan) and has many plants that resemble that of the Japanese landscape(like the cherry-bloom like trees or the "fire"-lily) The firenation also eats large amounts of fish, as Zuko and his Uncle do in the first season. Then there is the matter that firebending is based explicitly on Northern Shaolin Fighting styles, from China. It really should be obvious by now where this character is from.
I haven't even touched the clothing of the characters, and it's obvious these kids are from an Asian world. So why are Whites, playing Asian characters in an obviously Asian worlds? As the title of the thread states, Yellow-facing. I have read many reasons for this abomination, from there were no Asian kids available, (there are absolutely NO talent in those of Asian or Native American (preferably Inuit) Decent?) to it does matter you are just trying to find racism in something/ racism is dead, to as long as the kids are good actors--You know what? The media effects how someone sees themselves, as in those size zero models make girls and boys think that's how girl/boy should look. If there are no media portrayals of Asians in non-stereotypical roles, then what does that communicate to those Asian-American children? That they are either abnormal for being Asian, or their race just isn't good at acting by default . And you know what? Racism isn't dead, and no it's not just because those of a minority race keep it alive/want to see it. It's there, it really is. I don't want to hear because it's an American cartoon that characters of obvious non-white origin should be white. (that's illogical) I don't even want to hear because someone's voice actor was white the character should be as well, (because you know you can tell someones race by and un-accented voice.)
Race is a pivotal point in the entire story, because each race has a different culture in real life and in this story. The entire firenation tries to culturally oppress and homogenize the rest of their world by conquest, so making them all different races (with by default different cultures) is extremely pivotal to the believability of the story. And no Whites don't have the market on trying to take over another race's place. They are good at it, but not the only ones that do so. China is doing it now with Tibet, and Japan tried to do it before with China, and neither of them are white. rolleyes The director is making the rest of the nations, and therefore the cast, around the main character's race's. So this pivotal message is lost. In fact, the entire harmony message is lost, because now all there is to it is a dark-skinned villain chasing and hurting white heroes. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and want something new. Here was an opportunity to do something great. To break stereotypes, to not dumb-down and rape a canon source of great import, and most importantly to portray a world of great depth and a story of harmony that transcends dark=evil v.s. light=good.
The truth of the matter is, this is unacceptable. As unacceptable as black-facing was. It's wrong and we shouldn't have to stand for it in 2009. Oh by the way, I'm black, and if I know as little about Asian-American culture and I'M offended then there is only one thing to say: Casting director you're doing it wrong.
*Every as in every person I've seen tell us to sit down and shut up have told everyone in their post they are white explicitly.
It's just as bad as making Superman black, when he was raised in Kansas by Mr. and Mrs. White farmer, and went to Metropolis aka Chicago/New York. It's like making the titular character of blade White( He's a black man if you didn't know). And in fact, it like making spiderman black or Asian. It's. the. same. thing. Their ethnicity has as much to do with the character as the struggles the character goes through, because their culture is influenced by their ethnicity and, as such, colors the world through their eyes. And so their responses to it.
If for one minute you think that the Avatar world isn't Asian, you are either willfully ignorant or absurdly racist. Their clothing, their hair, their food, their architecture, their manners, their religions and their belief-systems, their customs, their utensils, their agriculture and food staples, AND their skin tones are soooo far from white and soooo steeped in Asian/Inuit/even South American culture that it is ridiculous to even pretend the characters themselves are not Asian. Just because the characters don't fit you people's(you dissenters) stereotypes of what Asians should look and act like doesn't make them not Asian, and even more so doesn't make them white by default.
I'm going to examine each main character in depth to prove they are Asian. And then I'm going to explain why white-washing and making every character but the villian white is not only offensive, but completely detracts from the tale of unity and diversity.
Aang, the Avatar. The main protagonist and character. He is currently being portrayed by Jonny white boy from Texas.
Aang in the source material, is heavily influenced by ( in all intensive purposes IS) Tibetan monks. The Air-nomads that Aang represents, live in temples, separated by sex, in relative simple life styles. They eat no meat, respect all life, and seek to live free from worldly attachments as untethered as the air itself. Aang's fighting style is fluid and free representing Air. It has a real world counter part: Ba Gua from China and practiced in Tibet. Aang, like other air bending masters, shaves his head. As do actual IRL Tibetan monks. Aang also has black hair, as do most people of Tibetan decent. Since I am talking about Aang, I will talk about the Avatar as a concept itself.
Avatar in concept, comes from Hinduism (Indian-yup Asian). It also uses reincarnation like the the Tulku Lama( as in the current Lama (Dali) ) and they found out Aang was the Avatar using the exact same methods, by having him pick from toys and seeing that he picked the same toys previous Avatars(Lama) played with/choose.
Katara/Sokka are being played, once again by Whitey Mcjoe/chick. They are other main characters, and in the source material are just as if not more important than Aang himself. They support Aang and even find and free him from the ice berg, with Katara acting as Aang's waterbending teacher. Both of the siblings (and they are actually twins in the source material) are from heavily influence by (read IS) Inuit-"like" culture. They are brown skinned and dark-haired like Inuits( yes Inuits have brown hair) and they live at the South Pole, with another tribe in the North.(Just like Inuits.) They live in tents built just like in Inuit culture, and they eat primarily seal, with Sokka often professing his love of meat and seal jerky. The waterbending style uses an enemies power against him, and is based on: Tai chi.
Tai chi is from China. Another Asian influence in the Watertribe is the ying/yang koi fish that represent the Moon and Sea at the spirit Oasis. It is from this push and pull of the tides that the waterbenders learned to well..bend. They can't have one without the other, this is why there is a white/black dote in the opposite color. And why Waterbenders can't bend w/o water(duh) or the moon.
Finally, there's Zuko. Arguably, the "whitest"-looking character in the show. He is a bad guy in the first season, and so this in adaption. And there is little/no redemption in the first season, and there will most likely be none to save time in the movie. Zuko is being played by the lead from the Hit Slum-dog Millionaire. He is the only dark-skinned character in the casting, and the character he is originally supposed to be portraying is very light-skinned. Not a single* white person has protested him being dark now. confused You would think they would be angry with the most complex and interesting character in the show with the biggest character arc and development being played dark as "unfair".
But it doesn't matter, because he is a villain now. Oh but hold the phone! Shouldn't those minorities be happy that he is "one of us"? Nope. Not because he's the villain, not even because he's the only dark-skinned person fighting white heroes, but because it is totally untrue to the source material. Zuko's culture is either feudal Japan or China. It seems to be a combination of both at times. As such, making him Southeast Asian is not only not the same thing, it doesn't even look like the same character and sends the wrong message when the protagonists, who were all "white-washed" are against him. Zuko's firenation architecture is a combination of Feudal china/Japan in origin with Pagoda-like elements. They have an official ruling family, a royalty.( That the other characters taken from eek other Asian cultures don't have.) This is very feudal Japan/China, relating to the emperor of either culture. The firenation is an Island nation(like Japan) has an amazingly strong Navy(like Japan) and has many plants that resemble that of the Japanese landscape(like the cherry-bloom like trees or the "fire"-lily) The firenation also eats large amounts of fish, as Zuko and his Uncle do in the first season. Then there is the matter that firebending is based explicitly on Northern Shaolin Fighting styles, from China. It really should be obvious by now where this character is from.
I haven't even touched the clothing of the characters, and it's obvious these kids are from an Asian world. So why are Whites, playing Asian characters in an obviously Asian worlds? As the title of the thread states, Yellow-facing. I have read many reasons for this abomination, from there were no Asian kids available, (there are absolutely NO talent in those of Asian or Native American (preferably Inuit) Decent?) to it does matter you are just trying to find racism in something/ racism is dead, to as long as the kids are good actors--You know what? The media effects how someone sees themselves, as in those size zero models make girls and boys think that's how girl/boy should look. If there are no media portrayals of Asians in non-stereotypical roles, then what does that communicate to those Asian-American children? That they are either abnormal for being Asian, or their race just isn't good at acting by default . And you know what? Racism isn't dead, and no it's not just because those of a minority race keep it alive/want to see it. It's there, it really is. I don't want to hear because it's an American cartoon that characters of obvious non-white origin should be white. (that's illogical) I don't even want to hear because someone's voice actor was white the character should be as well, (because you know you can tell someones race by and un-accented voice.)
Race is a pivotal point in the entire story, because each race has a different culture in real life and in this story. The entire firenation tries to culturally oppress and homogenize the rest of their world by conquest, so making them all different races (with by default different cultures) is extremely pivotal to the believability of the story. And no Whites don't have the market on trying to take over another race's place. They are good at it, but not the only ones that do so. China is doing it now with Tibet, and Japan tried to do it before with China, and neither of them are white. rolleyes The director is making the rest of the nations, and therefore the cast, around the main character's race's. So this pivotal message is lost. In fact, the entire harmony message is lost, because now all there is to it is a dark-skinned villain chasing and hurting white heroes. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and want something new. Here was an opportunity to do something great. To break stereotypes, to not dumb-down and rape a canon source of great import, and most importantly to portray a world of great depth and a story of harmony that transcends dark=evil v.s. light=good.
The truth of the matter is, this is unacceptable. As unacceptable as black-facing was. It's wrong and we shouldn't have to stand for it in 2009. Oh by the way, I'm black, and if I know as little about Asian-American culture and I'M offended then there is only one thing to say: Casting director you're doing it wrong.
*Every as in every person I've seen tell us to sit down and shut up have told everyone in their post they are white explicitly.
There's been a lot of argument in this thread regarding Aang not "looking Asian". Taken from Racebending.com, here's an essay that should debunk that myth.
Quote:
Let’s have a look back at all the discussions about how Aang looks white. The most arguments we all heard at some point were along the lines of:
* the creators made him look white
* he doesn’t have slanted eyes
* he has big blue eyes
* he has white skin
* etc. etc.
So according to these arguments, to make Aang unmistakably Asian he has to look like this:
Stereotyped Asian Aang
Pretty ridiculous, isn’t it? Especially for the fact that Asian people do not look like this in real life.
Then again we all know how these kinds of stereotypes are still in use, and how people are downright brainwashed by the media. It’s hard to look beyond these stereotypes when you grew up with them.
But education and awareness is a good thing, so let’s try and break some stereotypes.
If you haven’t already, check out the essay “The Face of the other” and the youtube video “Are anime characters caucasian or japanese” which are both explaining how Japanese character design is lacking stereotypical racial markers when portraying themselves and how the shape of the face is a simplification of Japanese facial features.
Despite the stylization Mike and Bryan made a serious attempt to convert the faces of real Asian/Inuit/etc. people into their cartoon counterparts. In an interview with Bryan stating how much anime character design is based on the real world.
In short: They made the characters look like Asians/Inuit.
If Mike and Bryan would have really wanted to make a story about Caucasian kids dressing up as Asians, they’d be capable of conveying Caucasian features into their character design and Aang would look like this:
Perceived Caucasian Aang
This is what White!Aang would look like in Avatar’s animation style with Caucasian facial features – complete with big blue eyes and a more accurate skintone. Obviously, that’s not what Aang in the series looks like. The artists and artworks that were a huge inspiration for Bryan and Mike are absolutely capable to depict Caucasian facial features. So why should Bryan and Mike fail so hard when trying to mimic them? Because they didn’t try to. They did draw Asian facial features not Caucasian ones!
And that’s why Aang looks like this:
Aang!
Do you still think he looks white?
Do you still think that the creators wanted to make him look white?
Do you still think that he has a “white” skintone?
Oh and can you finally see that Aang does not have blue eyes at all? (yes, we’ve had people use this as an argument)
Images and essay courtesy of MrCab. Essay adapted by racebending.com.
* the creators made him look white
* he doesn’t have slanted eyes
* he has big blue eyes
* he has white skin
* etc. etc.
So according to these arguments, to make Aang unmistakably Asian he has to look like this:
Stereotyped Asian Aang
Pretty ridiculous, isn’t it? Especially for the fact that Asian people do not look like this in real life.
Then again we all know how these kinds of stereotypes are still in use, and how people are downright brainwashed by the media. It’s hard to look beyond these stereotypes when you grew up with them.
But education and awareness is a good thing, so let’s try and break some stereotypes.
If you haven’t already, check out the essay “The Face of the other” and the youtube video “Are anime characters caucasian or japanese” which are both explaining how Japanese character design is lacking stereotypical racial markers when portraying themselves and how the shape of the face is a simplification of Japanese facial features.
Despite the stylization Mike and Bryan made a serious attempt to convert the faces of real Asian/Inuit/etc. people into their cartoon counterparts. In an interview with Bryan stating how much anime character design is based on the real world.
In short: They made the characters look like Asians/Inuit.
If Mike and Bryan would have really wanted to make a story about Caucasian kids dressing up as Asians, they’d be capable of conveying Caucasian features into their character design and Aang would look like this:
Perceived Caucasian Aang
This is what White!Aang would look like in Avatar’s animation style with Caucasian facial features – complete with big blue eyes and a more accurate skintone. Obviously, that’s not what Aang in the series looks like. The artists and artworks that were a huge inspiration for Bryan and Mike are absolutely capable to depict Caucasian facial features. So why should Bryan and Mike fail so hard when trying to mimic them? Because they didn’t try to. They did draw Asian facial features not Caucasian ones!
And that’s why Aang looks like this:
Aang!
Do you still think he looks white?
Do you still think that the creators wanted to make him look white?
Do you still think that he has a “white” skintone?
Oh and can you finally see that Aang does not have blue eyes at all? (yes, we’ve had people use this as an argument)
Images and essay courtesy of MrCab. Essay adapted by racebending.com.
Xeno Incognito
To the people who say they found "the best people" for the job- Noah Ringer and Nicola Peltz's resumes:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2443758/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3226241/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2443758/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3226241/
Vixianna
Hello and Welcome to the Avatar thread. This thread has been going on a while now, and it’s seems the opposition likes to use some of the same arguments over and over. I have here a list of arguments that have been debunked, and are no longer usable to support the side of pro/ambivalent-casting. Please do not use them, I and other hate repeating ourselves.
1) “The cartoon characters are not Asian because:”
This argument comes in many forms, but I’ll do my best to take care of a whole bunch of the ones, I’ve seen/can remember.
-They don’t look Asian.
I hate this argument. It’s ignorant, and uncultured. If you want a break-down of each character and why they are indeed Asian, just see my post in the OP.
- Because it’s an American Cartoon.
Hate this argument too. So Because I’m black I can only make black characters? I don’t think so. You can be another race and make stories about another culture, just as long as you are respectful, it doesn’t matter.
- Because the voice actors are…
That’s some old bullshit. You can’t tell race by voice. You can tell nationality by accent, but only if you are familiar with that country’s spoken language.
- Because They don’t act Asian.
What do Asians act like? They’re human dummy! They act like humans. If the kids have American personalities, (if we can even say that) don’t you think that it’s for the benefit of the Audience?
- Because I don’t see the Asian influences…
Jesus Mother Christ. If you use this, you haven’t read the OP. Forget about it.
- Well anime characters don’t…
And this proves your Euro-centric attitude. Those characters are drawn for an Asian audience, and so no matter what you think they look like, they are indeed Asian, because that’s what the artist intended. It’s like saying Kenshin Himura isn’t Japanese , because he has red-hair and purple eyes. Well one: I don’t know anyone in real life that looks like that, and two: He was born in a little mountain village in the Japanese interior. He’s Japanese. Get over it.
In short don’t use this argument it tacky, old, and just plain stupid. Moving on, there is another common argument used. “Ok so they’re Asian but maybe the found the best people for the job?” This argument comes in many forms as well. I’ll lie out a few so we can get this over with.
- There just aren’t enough Asians around.
Once again I call Bullshit. There are 15 million Asian- Americans and 2 million Natives. They can’t find 2 of each? At all? I’m calling you’re bluff.
- They just didn’t audition/ there weren’t any good.
So Natives/Asian can’t act now? All of them? So that’s why we needed so many whites… yeah no it’s doesn’t work.
- You haven’t seen it so…
Yeah maybe not, but we have two no names, a Twitard, and originally Jesse McCarthy. I don’t think they were worried about talent here. And if they can hire two no name whites, why not Asians/Natives?
- It’s not like they did this on purpose…
Ah, but that’s where you are wrong. They preferred white in the Main casting call, and then had no trouble specifically asking for them in the extra/background character casting call. And we have pictures. See the OP for screen shots of the casting call wording.
Ok that takes care of most of those. I’m moving on to another argument. They can just use make-up/CGI. This one doesn’t have any variations, so I’ll just answer it straight. This is called yellow/black/ethnicfacing. It’s offensive, and it’s used to perpetuate the whitewashing standards, and deny talented ethnic actors. It doesn’t fly for black face, and it shouldn’t fly here. Can’t they just get a tan? No and no. Still facing practices, it’d be hard to get Sokka and Katara’s actors the right shade without it looking fake, and even then they’d need prosthetics because their facial structure isn’t right. Just hire the right damn ethnicity please.
Ok now onto another argument. “Well such and such white character was changed to another race and no one complained.” Did his race have something to do with their culture? Did the casting and casting director behave unethically? No? Well while I feel it is a supremely stupid casting decision, with so few non-stereotypical character’s of color out there, I can’t protest, unless I feel they used unethical casting methods in order to do so, like in this movie. Also, I feel now is a good time to define Ethnicity, Nationality, and Race.
Race- "A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics." "Sauce"
Ethnicity- "An ethnic group is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or presumed." "Yes wiki"
Nationality- "people having common origins or traditions and often comprising a nation" "sauce"
There are only 4-(5) recognized races. They are Asian, African, European(Caucasian), Native.(Of any locale), and Hispanic(recently). Under these are ethnicities. French and German are both an ethnicity and Nationality. Nationality is what country you are from. French and German are ethnically different, but are both Caucasian. Are we clear? This is not the same level of complaint of a Chinese woman playing a Japanese character in Memoirs. This is like Jor El or Kal el(Superman) being black. It doesn’t work like that.
“Well stop complaining! It not like there aren’t other shows…” See that’s only part of the problem. There aren’t other shows. Name another Asian fantasy show, cartoon or otherwise, that actually used Asians. I’m waiting...nothing? Well damn. Just as well, only looking at light-skinned faces has an effect on children of other races. This is proved by the doll test. I’ll find a link, but just youtube that, and you’ll get your answer. Just as well, name another fantasy that deals with darker skinned characters at all? You can’t? Well I’ll name some white ones. Golden Compass, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Narnia, ect. See our point?
“This is monetarily motivated! It’s not about race!” And here’s where things get complicated. If someone doesn’t get a minority because they feel white folks in America won’t watch another color as a star, what is this? Money or race? Both. They are looking to gain more money, by exploiting and perpetuating racial standards and tensions in American. That’s wrong and it’s been going on for too long. They white washed Earthsea, if you didn’t know about that book. It’s about African-American children. They are white in the movie adaptation, just like Avatar. Oh and the Asian’s sell less is bunk. Crouching Tiger made 13x it’s original budget back. That’s more than Spiderman did in terms of profitability. So that’s bunk. Also, minorities get paid less in Hollywood, this is a fact unless you are a big wig name. It would cost them less to cast Asians…then they’d have more money for special effects.
“ It’s racist because you guys are making it racist! That’s way racism isn’t going away, you all are helping to make it!” Dumbass. No. It’s racism because it’s discriminatory. And discrimination happens whether we bring it up or not. It would happen, and continue to happen if no one spoke up about it. Also, We are not racists for wanting the source material to be respected or for bring this up. Being color blind only works in a world that is truly equal. Tell me when we get there.
“ It’s their creative license/ prerogative! You can’t make them sacrifice their vision.” Nope, but we sure as hell can protest it. Causes that’s biased and discriminatory. And should be illegal. This doesn’t really help your side just so you know. You just made an argument they were consciously racist, instead of the ignorant/institutionalized racism we’ve been ascribing them. In short, you’re make them look worse.
I think I hit the big ones, someone tell me if I have missed anything obvious, and I will edit it into this post. Oh and the Ad Homs., Red herrings, and Strawmen need to stop. This isn’t about future movies, it isn’t about other cartoons, and this ain’t about our family/moms. STFU about it and discuss the topic at hand.
(( Here's that argument I promised. Could the Op please edit it into the OP?))
1) “The cartoon characters are not Asian because:”
This argument comes in many forms, but I’ll do my best to take care of a whole bunch of the ones, I’ve seen/can remember.
-They don’t look Asian.
I hate this argument. It’s ignorant, and uncultured. If you want a break-down of each character and why they are indeed Asian, just see my post in the OP.
- Because it’s an American Cartoon.
Hate this argument too. So Because I’m black I can only make black characters? I don’t think so. You can be another race and make stories about another culture, just as long as you are respectful, it doesn’t matter.
- Because the voice actors are…
That’s some old bullshit. You can’t tell race by voice. You can tell nationality by accent, but only if you are familiar with that country’s spoken language.
- Because They don’t act Asian.
What do Asians act like? They’re human dummy! They act like humans. If the kids have American personalities, (if we can even say that) don’t you think that it’s for the benefit of the Audience?
- Because I don’t see the Asian influences…
Jesus Mother Christ. If you use this, you haven’t read the OP. Forget about it.
- Well anime characters don’t…
And this proves your Euro-centric attitude. Those characters are drawn for an Asian audience, and so no matter what you think they look like, they are indeed Asian, because that’s what the artist intended. It’s like saying Kenshin Himura isn’t Japanese , because he has red-hair and purple eyes. Well one: I don’t know anyone in real life that looks like that, and two: He was born in a little mountain village in the Japanese interior. He’s Japanese. Get over it.
In short don’t use this argument it tacky, old, and just plain stupid. Moving on, there is another common argument used. “Ok so they’re Asian but maybe the found the best people for the job?” This argument comes in many forms as well. I’ll lie out a few so we can get this over with.
- There just aren’t enough Asians around.
Once again I call Bullshit. There are 15 million Asian- Americans and 2 million Natives. They can’t find 2 of each? At all? I’m calling you’re bluff.
- They just didn’t audition/ there weren’t any good.
So Natives/Asian can’t act now? All of them? So that’s why we needed so many whites… yeah no it’s doesn’t work.
- You haven’t seen it so…
Yeah maybe not, but we have two no names, a Twitard, and originally Jesse McCarthy. I don’t think they were worried about talent here. And if they can hire two no name whites, why not Asians/Natives?
- It’s not like they did this on purpose…
Ah, but that’s where you are wrong. They preferred white in the Main casting call, and then had no trouble specifically asking for them in the extra/background character casting call. And we have pictures. See the OP for screen shots of the casting call wording.
Ok that takes care of most of those. I’m moving on to another argument. They can just use make-up/CGI. This one doesn’t have any variations, so I’ll just answer it straight. This is called yellow/black/ethnicfacing. It’s offensive, and it’s used to perpetuate the whitewashing standards, and deny talented ethnic actors. It doesn’t fly for black face, and it shouldn’t fly here. Can’t they just get a tan? No and no. Still facing practices, it’d be hard to get Sokka and Katara’s actors the right shade without it looking fake, and even then they’d need prosthetics because their facial structure isn’t right. Just hire the right damn ethnicity please.
Ok now onto another argument. “Well such and such white character was changed to another race and no one complained.” Did his race have something to do with their culture? Did the casting and casting director behave unethically? No? Well while I feel it is a supremely stupid casting decision, with so few non-stereotypical character’s of color out there, I can’t protest, unless I feel they used unethical casting methods in order to do so, like in this movie. Also, I feel now is a good time to define Ethnicity, Nationality, and Race.
Race- "A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics." "Sauce"
Ethnicity- "An ethnic group is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or presumed." "Yes wiki"
Nationality- "people having common origins or traditions and often comprising a nation" "sauce"
There are only 4-(5) recognized races. They are Asian, African, European(Caucasian), Native.(Of any locale), and Hispanic(recently). Under these are ethnicities. French and German are both an ethnicity and Nationality. Nationality is what country you are from. French and German are ethnically different, but are both Caucasian. Are we clear? This is not the same level of complaint of a Chinese woman playing a Japanese character in Memoirs. This is like Jor El or Kal el(Superman) being black. It doesn’t work like that.
“Well stop complaining! It not like there aren’t other shows…” See that’s only part of the problem. There aren’t other shows. Name another Asian fantasy show, cartoon or otherwise, that actually used Asians. I’m waiting...nothing? Well damn. Just as well, only looking at light-skinned faces has an effect on children of other races. This is proved by the doll test. I’ll find a link, but just youtube that, and you’ll get your answer. Just as well, name another fantasy that deals with darker skinned characters at all? You can’t? Well I’ll name some white ones. Golden Compass, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Narnia, ect. See our point?
“This is monetarily motivated! It’s not about race!” And here’s where things get complicated. If someone doesn’t get a minority because they feel white folks in America won’t watch another color as a star, what is this? Money or race? Both. They are looking to gain more money, by exploiting and perpetuating racial standards and tensions in American. That’s wrong and it’s been going on for too long. They white washed Earthsea, if you didn’t know about that book. It’s about African-American children. They are white in the movie adaptation, just like Avatar. Oh and the Asian’s sell less is bunk. Crouching Tiger made 13x it’s original budget back. That’s more than Spiderman did in terms of profitability. So that’s bunk. Also, minorities get paid less in Hollywood, this is a fact unless you are a big wig name. It would cost them less to cast Asians…then they’d have more money for special effects.
“ It’s racist because you guys are making it racist! That’s way racism isn’t going away, you all are helping to make it!” Dumbass. No. It’s racism because it’s discriminatory. And discrimination happens whether we bring it up or not. It would happen, and continue to happen if no one spoke up about it. Also, We are not racists for wanting the source material to be respected or for bring this up. Being color blind only works in a world that is truly equal. Tell me when we get there.
“ It’s their creative license/ prerogative! You can’t make them sacrifice their vision.” Nope, but we sure as hell can protest it. Causes that’s biased and discriminatory. And should be illegal. This doesn’t really help your side just so you know. You just made an argument they were consciously racist, instead of the ignorant/institutionalized racism we’ve been ascribing them. In short, you’re make them look worse.
I think I hit the big ones, someone tell me if I have missed anything obvious, and I will edit it into this post. Oh and the Ad Homs., Red herrings, and Strawmen need to stop. This isn’t about future movies, it isn’t about other cartoons, and this ain’t about our family/moms. STFU about it and discuss the topic at hand.
(( Here's that argument I promised. Could the Op please edit it into the OP?))
