Anyone who says you don't need a higher education

[AryanaSky]

Prof Jackson

AryanaSky

Prof Jackson

AryanaSky

Prof Jackson

Where I'm from (rural Canada) it actually more economic in many situations to not get a degree from university, but rather do a simple 6 month course to be a tradesman. I'm rounding out my second year working on a BoS with a major in physics, and I have friends who I graduated with who went and became plumbers, went west to work in Alberta (around the oil sands) and have put payments on a brand new house. It's nuts.

Sure, you can probably make as much money with a degree, but it's a hell of an investment and I probably won't overtake my friend in overall payout for over a decade, maybe longer depending on student debt.

That sounds like an incredibly sensible way of doing things. I haven't heard of anything in America less than two-year vocational school, unless you count taking individual college courses without going for an actual degree. Otherwise, you have to actually get the job to receive the training an experience, as far as I know. Which is really very backwards. What's the 6-month course program called?

generally it varies, there are a lot of smaller trade schools that offer different courses, but they all bascially boil down to getting you into the poisition of "apprentice _________". In my friends case an apprentice plumber. He applies to a work site, they hire him on the spot and stick him as the apprentice of a journeyman plumber. The company win (they only have to pay apprentices a fraction of journeyman wage), the journeyman wins (he gets a little slave to do all the heavy lifting), and the apprentice wins( gets paid, no 'difficult' work early on, great work experience, hours count towards getting his own journeyman status). Not 100% sure on the school my friend went to, I think it was called the Carpenters-Millrites Institute of Newfoundland

Truly, apprenticeship always sounded like a rational and legit way of learning how to do something. It's cool to find out that it has been applied modern-day, first-world circumstances. I will have to read up more on Canada in general. From the little I've learned, it sounds like a very sensible place. I might like to live there someday, or at least visit.

apprenticeship is alive and well, it's commonly used all over the world by tradesmen. Talk to any certified plumber or electrician and ask them if they have their "red seal". It basically gives them journeyman status and allows them to take on apprentices. One can, if they wish, challenge a journeyman exam. If they pass they get their red seal on the spot, if they fail. Well, they failed and the school gets to keep the $300 they paid to take the exam.

My highschool actually offered a class called "skilled trades studies", I took it in my graduating year. Was really informative, really shows the students post-secondary education options besides long term college and university.

Again, really cool. It's not an option that's widely advertised down here. Mostly you're just told to finish high school and go to college.

[Prof Jackson]

AryanaSky

Prof Jackson

AryanaSky

Prof Jackson

AryanaSky

Prof Jackson

Where I'm from (rural Canada) it actually more economic in many situations to not get a degree from university, but rather do a simple 6 month course to be a tradesman. I'm rounding out my second year working on a BoS with a major in physics, and I have friends who I graduated with who went and became plumbers, went west to work in Alberta (around the oil sands) and have put payments on a brand new house. It's nuts.

Sure, you can probably make as much money with a degree, but it's a hell of an investment and I probably won't overtake my friend in overall payout for over a decade, maybe longer depending on student debt.

That sounds like an incredibly sensible way of doing things. I haven't heard of anything in America less than two-year vocational school, unless you count taking individual college courses without going for an actual degree. Otherwise, you have to actually get the job to receive the training an experience, as far as I know. Which is really very backwards. What's the 6-month course program called?

generally it varies, there are a lot of smaller trade schools that offer different courses, but they all bascially boil down to getting you into the poisition of "apprentice _________". In my friends case an apprentice plumber. He applies to a work site, they hire him on the spot and stick him as the apprentice of a journeyman plumber. The company win (they only have to pay apprentices a fraction of journeyman wage), the journeyman wins (he gets a little slave to do all the heavy lifting), and the apprentice wins( gets paid, no 'difficult' work early on, great work experience, hours count towards getting his own journeyman status). Not 100% sure on the school my friend went to, I think it was called the Carpenters-Millrites Institute of Newfoundland

Truly, apprenticeship always sounded like a rational and legit way of learning how to do something. It's cool to find out that it has been applied modern-day, first-world circumstances. I will have to read up more on Canada in general. From the little I've learned, it sounds like a very sensible place. I might like to live there someday, or at least visit.

apprenticeship is alive and well, it's commonly used all over the world by tradesmen. Talk to any certified plumber or electrician and ask them if they have their "red seal". It basically gives them journeyman status and allows them to take on apprentices. One can, if they wish, challenge a journeyman exam. If they pass they get their red seal on the spot, if they fail. Well, they failed and the school gets to keep the $300 they paid to take the exam.

My highschool actually offered a class called "skilled trades studies", I took it in my graduating year. Was really informative, really shows the students post-secondary education options besides long term college and university.

Again, really cool. It's not an option that's widely advertised down here. Mostly you're just told to finish high school and go to college.

That's pretty much why positions like lumbers and electricians are starting to pay really really well. The average age of a tradesman (in canada at least) is in their early 60s. The last few generations have been out getting degrees in child developmental psychology and computer engineering. Most people don't know how to install a toilet. In this decade we can expect to see about 40% of tradesmen to retire. I'm sure I don't need to explain supply and demand to you.

[AryanaSky]

Prof Jackson

AryanaSky

Prof Jackson

AryanaSky

Prof Jackson

generally it varies, there are a lot of smaller trade schools that offer different courses, but they all bascially boil down to getting you into the poisition of "apprentice _________". In my friends case an apprentice plumber. He applies to a work site, they hire him on the spot and stick him as the apprentice of a journeyman plumber. The company win (they only have to pay apprentices a fraction of journeyman wage), the journeyman wins (he gets a little slave to do all the heavy lifting), and the apprentice wins( gets paid, no 'difficult' work early on, great work experience, hours count towards getting his own journeyman status). Not 100% sure on the school my friend went to, I think it was called the Carpenters-Millrites Institute of Newfoundland

Truly, apprenticeship always sounded like a rational and legit way of learning how to do something. It's cool to find out that it has been applied modern-day, first-world circumstances. I will have to read up more on Canada in general. From the little I've learned, it sounds like a very sensible place. I might like to live there someday, or at least visit.

apprenticeship is alive and well, it's commonly used all over the world by tradesmen. Talk to any certified plumber or electrician and ask them if they have their "red seal". It basically gives them journeyman status and allows them to take on apprentices. One can, if they wish, challenge a journeyman exam. If they pass they get their red seal on the spot, if they fail. Well, they failed and the school gets to keep the $300 they paid to take the exam.

My highschool actually offered a class called "skilled trades studies", I took it in my graduating year. Was really informative, really shows the students post-secondary education options besides long term college and university.

Again, really cool. It's not an option that's widely advertised down here. Mostly you're just told to finish high school and go to college.

That's pretty much why positions like lumbers and electricians are starting to pay really really well. The average age of a tradesman (in canada at least) is in their early 60s. The last few generations have been out getting degrees in child developmental psychology and computer engineering. Most people don't know how to install a toilet. In this decade we can expect to see about 40% of tradesmen to retire. I'm sure I don't need to explain supply and demand to you.

Nope. Sounds like prime job territory to me. There's college careers that are in similar positions, as well. Computer Science, for example, is a rapidly growing career field, and less people are getting degrees in it. And once you get a degree in computers, you can go anywhere with it. You can do the obvious stuff, like making apps or programming video games. Or you can program new equipment for hospitals, or program for NASA, or work for businesses in general or software companies by programming databases and software. Literally, a degree in computer science can take you to any field you'd like. Wherever you go, you will be in-demand and you'll be paid very well.

[Avgvsto]

The only people searching for jobs that are unnecessary are people with higher education. Honestly, a company would work fine without marketing, cluttered amounts of lawyers, and all those other unnecessary pieces that society demands to be thrown in. I hold that education should be for the sake of knowledge and philosophy not practicality, besides, no one learns how to be more practical than those on the front lines. Furthermore I know several millionaires who have not acchieved a higher education, including my father who ran several more pretentiously educated companies out of business.

[Ipsen the Paragon]

God Emperor Akhenaton

Is a moron. We live in America where we have higher wages. As a result, companies prefer places where they can pay people less. You can be a blue collar man all you want, but the days of the blue collar job are going away either withering down to service jobs or what little factory work is left. If you were a businessman, would you hire a few guys for $10 an hour to build calculators or would you hire children in a Cambodian orphanage who can do the same work and get paid in baseball cards? In the end, the only thing separating you from the third world is an education. So getting a college degree or at least a vocational education is vital as our nation replaces those jobs with skilled ones.

This is assuming that all jobs that DON'T require a degree are blue collar jobs, yes? So, Quentin Tarantino is blue-collar? James Cameron, Steven Spielberg?

[Rhonon Prime]

When I can afford such higher educational aims, or when I can convince a bank to loan to me, perhaps I might go for a course in data systems and maintenance. I seem to have a dab hand at the field in question.

[Victoria of Gallifrey]

Education better than none.
Education gives you more options.
Education costs more money.
Education guarantees nothing.
Many reasons to get them, but many reasons not to.
Sometimes it's just impractical.

[Rhonon Prime]

It is a pity that the most crucial thing for human advancement as a race is knowledge, and knowledge is either held onto with grip and talon, or prohibitively expensive to those not within the middle to high class echelons.

[Desideraht]

...I can agree with this. What bugs me is when someone jumps down your throat for not going for the 4-8 year degree. Not everyone wants to do that, an a person isn't "better" for choosing to.

[HarperLeighTS]

God Emperor Akhenaton

Is a moron. We live in America where we have higher wages. As a result, companies prefer places where they can pay people less. You can be a blue collar man all you want, but the days of the blue collar job are going away either withering down to service jobs or what little factory work is left. If you were a businessman, would you hire a few guys for $10 an hour to build calculators or would you hire children in a Cambodian orphanage who can do the same work and get paid in baseball cards? In the end, the only thing separating you from the third world is an education. So getting a college degree or at least a vocational education is vital as our nation replaces those jobs with skilled ones.

I have three bosses who own a company, none of whom ever finished a degree. We're not a huge corporation, but we all make a profit. How's that fit into your college propaganda?

Also, I spent almost two grand on a phlebotomy certification course...

Turns out, I'm really good at it. Also turns out, the job market for trade skills is s**t.

I haven't spent a dime on computer sciences. I'm completely self taught, and I make a decent wage.

It's not how much you spend, or what you go to college for. You're only going to make it if you care about it. And if you really care about it, you don't need to spend money on it, because you'll care enough to teach yourself.

[Vizal]

Hmn, the 'educated' don't seem to have many arguments. Irony?

[God Emperor Akhenaton]

Ipsen the Paragon

God Emperor Akhenaton

Is a moron. We live in America where we have higher wages. As a result, companies prefer places where they can pay people less. You can be a blue collar man all you want, but the days of the blue collar job are going away either withering down to service jobs or what little factory work is left. If you were a businessman, would you hire a few guys for $10 an hour to build calculators or would you hire children in a Cambodian orphanage who can do the same work and get paid in baseball cards? In the end, the only thing separating you from the third world is an education. So getting a college degree or at least a vocational education is vital as our nation replaces those jobs with skilled ones.

This is assuming that all jobs that DON'T require a degree are blue collar jobs, yes? So, Quentin Tarantino is blue-collar? James Cameron, Steven Spielberg?

You're looking at an incredibly small percentage of people who are successful. That idea goes to s**t when you see the lifestyle of the average American who doesn't have some kind of skill.

[God Emperor Akhenaton]

Lokshen

Depends on if I could cheaply ship the cheaply made calculators around. As oil prices escalate I might not be able to feasible use such cheap labor.

If the price of oil affected the wealthy the same way we do, then I would agree, but the wealthy unionize themselves. The bottom line is that the uneducated are unwanted people

Lokshen

Also what value does a college degree have if everyone has one? Effectively it just because an expensive form of high school, then how do others differentiate themselves from the pack?

They would certainly be better off than those who have to education. You need to have a degree to become a doctor, a lawyer or an engineer without it and in the end, the uneducated are worthless.

Lokshen

Finally what of the merit of individual degrees in the economy? Are all degrees of equal value?

I would argue they vary. I never understood art degrees, but they exist.

[God Emperor Akhenaton]

Yoshpet

A large part of the problem is that outsourced jobs aren't being replaced. Post-secondary schooling in the US is little more than a racket.

They are actually being replaced. Just not by jobs that require no skill. Already, employment rate among people with a bachelor's degree or higher is 4.2%
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm