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Athavulf


I *fixed* what you had apparently mistyped. Can you verify the validity of this site-cite? No? Hmm.. Looks like it's just another opinion-based resource. Aw shucks. I'll read into it at my own pace, in any case.

[edit] Did you read through the entire page? Did you read the readers' comments? rofl [/edit]


You didn't fix anything, now your ARE being an arrogant douchebag. It's disgusting, and you wonder why this thread doesn't have any other posters?

Yes an opinion for your opinion, and guess what? It uses the same passage you claim supports you but explains why it doesn't. You don't even cite, but claim this is the only interpretation but not why.

I did read the whole page, but I'm not sure what the posters comments have s**t for all to do with anything.(especially considering deserts are naturally radioactive)
Vixianna, TL;DR lol.

ERROR: Could not translate blatant superciliousness to ratiocination.
ASSESSMENT: Human interaction protocol appears to be corrupted.
SYNOPSIS: "Give a damn.exe" Bad command or filename. Try again?

Yes / No _
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Athavulf
Vixianna, TL;DR lol.

ERROR: Could not translate blatant superciliousness to ratiocination.
ASSESSMENT: Human interaction protocol appears to be corrupted.
SYNOPSIS: "Give a damn.exe" Bad command or filename. Try again?

Yes / No _


What the hell is your problem?! When someone tries to explain a deficient to you, you just refuse to listen and plug you ears? Fine but I don't want to hear any more bullshit about the Big Bang not being true, unless you can actually debate using science not opinion and conjecture. I'm serious, i wasn't being arrogant throughout 95-98% of those posts, I even explained it with real life examples instead of math. Grow a pair and step up to the intellectual plate. Kthx.
Vixianna
Athavulf
Vixianna, TL;DR lol.

ERROR: Could not translate blatant superciliousness to ratiocination.
ASSESSMENT: Human interaction protocol appears to be corrupted.
SYNOPSIS: "Give a damn.exe" Bad command or filename. Try again?

Yes / No _


What the hell is your problem?! When someone tries to explain a deficient to you, you just refuse to listen and plug you ears? Fine but I don't want to hear any more bullshit about the Big Bang not being true, unless you can actually debate using science not opinion and conjecture. I'm serious, i wasn't being arrogant throughout 95-98% of those posts, I even explained it with real life examples instead of math. Grow a pair and step up to the intellectual plate. Kthx.


You have some valid points, but you allow peculiar dogmatic theories to control your perspectives, or to affix them into a single perspective. Now I want to remind you that neither of us have the qualifications required to even remotely grasp the nature of the universe. It would be preposterous to assume that we can actually comprehend the entire truth. You must have come to realize the fragile validity of media in the face of financial avarice by now? In any case, very few humans actually get to go into outer space. Almost every source of information regarding gov't space programs (and atmospheric alterations) is heavily regulated to the public. Downplaying the nature of their "experiments" is an obvious procedure, but it goes unchecked by the public majority. For example, when asked about projects Argus and Starfish with the HAARP involvement, the speaker used the phrase "...the scientific experiments that perturbed the natural ionosphere" to refer to the missile-launched mega-ton atomic bombs intentionally detonated within the lower Van Allen Belt, causing it so much disturbance that a large portion was blasted towards the heavens and later formed multiple thinner ionospheres as it settled, permanently altering our planet's nicely balanced system for use with advanced global weapons systems. While public taxes help pay for these atrocities, it is deemed unwise to let the public in to what's really going down, lest they find discomfort in the idea and get in the way of plans. It's totally logical, but... not so wonderful. So, yeah, basically I am saying that no source or institution is 100% faith-worthy.

I do not claim that there was no big bang, I claim that that theory is absurd and it contradicts the first law of physics. If you want to entertain an absurd theory, who am I to stop you? I just happen to suspect there is a much more tenacious story about the universe that does not require an infinity cap. These perspectives I entertain readily accept what physics calls "nasty infinity", and this notion lends way to all manner of possibilities beyond the walls of our current understanding. While I may not be beyond those walls, I at least recognize that they are indeed walls and that there is more beyond those barriers that can be discovered.

Vixianna
I'm going to have to go slow, tell me if I go too fast.


Condescending. b***h.

Vixianna
The planet rotates, and now you are on the side facing away from the star. I'd like to take this time to say that night ISN'T caused by the Earth's Shadow. (Lunar Eclipses are though.) It is caused by the Earth's rotation taking it away from the light source. Think of a light bulb in the middle of the room. the side of you not facing the light bulb is dark.


The side of me not facing the light bulb is dark because it's in my shadow. Same with the planet. At night, what is blocking the sun's light? The Earth. Or do you think that a shadow is only the 2D image that gets displayed on distant surfaces? At midnight, the part of the planet you are on at 12:00 is within (or around - further from the equator) the umbra of the Earth's shadow.

Vixianna
The better question is, why is the night dark? Sounds silly, but it's more profound than it seems.


There is no night, really. Imagine someone shines a flashlight in your eyes while outside on a dark "night". This is similar to what is happening to the Earth during the day, were the Sun a flashlight and the Earth your face. Now imagine someone were shining the flashlight at you from a far away mountain top. While you may notice a faint flicker in the distance, the light does not engulf your vision as it would at 3 feet away. Same with the stars.

Vixianna
To be succinct, where does the background radiation come from? The buzz of microwaves that permeates all of space, in between you and me, and entire galaxies. It must come from somewhere, and more importantly we still can't figure out why the night is dark.


You can't figure out why night is dark perhaps. I totally get your entire patronizing room full of light bulbs and I get the pennies on a balloon conceptual model of the expanding universe theory. Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before and read enough. First of all, let's say this room full of light bulbs had no walls, no limits, and scant few surfaces to reflect light off of. All the light emitted from all the little now-hovering lights would be free to venture outwards indefinitely or until it found a random object to redirect it partially. These models are cute and all, but if this is all physics boils its fundamental principles down to, then it is not impressive enough to take seriously. A balloon? No. Just no. Get real. Maybe if you can explain the workings of a multidimensional balloon, perhaps.

Vixianna
All matter didn't "explode" into a waiting universal void, the WHOLE universe time, space(the three dimensions), and matter all expanded at once into existence. Do you understand?


It expanded within what? More condescension on your part, totally uncalled for. Do you understand? Where, when, why, how this dubious big bang event occurred? Can you really tell me? No, this cannot be explained, only presumed and speculated upon. You claim these things like they were your own experiences. C'mon now... The whole thing is one whole thing. That is the best explanation. Quantum discoveries have revealed that at the base level of reality, non-locality, super-position, time/space indifferentiation, etc are not just feasible, but naturally occurring at that level. If you had to force a model out of me, I would regard lightly the holographic universe concept.

Vixianna
Your understanding of space science is poor.


Condescending. Your ability to reason is poor.

Vixianna
Why are you insulting humans, there really isn't a reason for it, but what do you mean by us seeing bangs?


Humans, due to their actions, deserve to be insulted. I mean that the "Big Bang Theory" is not something that is real. It is a concept that we created with our monkey brain imagination. All we think about is blowing s**t up.

Vixianna
I now have to ask, how you think the universe is in equilibrium.(which is the SAME THING as being static)


Being in equilibrium and being static are not the "SAME THING". In fact, they are "DIFFERENT THINGS". Modern Physics took the term and made it static. I mean the original sense of the word equilibrium from Latin: æquilibrium, 1608. It was meant to denote balance, a harmonic system. Physics took the word and twisted it to denote some deathly stillness. Static already meant something frozen changeless. The more pure concept of equilibrium I refer to denotes such as nature, ever changing yet somehow impeccably balanced. (Until monkey learned to make bombs)

I also want you to understand that while I claim that people are stupid, I count myself among them. I know that we don't really know. You, however, seem to have a big Ego complex going on. However, condescend as you might, I also count you among us stupid people. So, we welcome you as equally stupid entities. You don't know and neither do we..
Vixianna's avatar
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Athavulf

You have some valid points, but you allow peculiar dogmatic theories to control your perspectives, or to affix them into a single perspective. Now I want to remind you that neither of us have the qualifications required to even remotely grasp the nature of the universe. It would be preposterous to assume that we can actually comprehend the entire truth. You must have come to realize the fragile validity of media in the face of financial avarice by now? In any case, very few humans actually get to go into outer space. Almost every source of information regarding gov't space programs (and atmospheric alterations) is heavily regulated to the public. Downplaying the nature of their "experiments" is an obvious procedure, but it goes unchecked by the public majority. For example, when asked about projects Argus and Starfish with the HAARP involvement, the speaker used the phrase "...the scientific experiments that perturbed the natural ionosphere" to refer to the missile-launched mega-ton atomic bombs intentionally detonated within the lower Van Allen Belt, causing it so much disturbance that a large portion was blasted towards the heavens and later formed multiple thinner ionospheres as it settled, permanently altering our planet's nicely balanced system for use with advanced global weapons systems. While public taxes help pay for these atrocities, it is deemed unwise to let the public in to what's really going down, lest they find discomfort in the idea and get in the way of plans. It's totally logical, but... not so wonderful. So, yeah, basically I am saying that no source or institution is 100% faith-worthy.

I do not claim that there was no big bang, I claim that that theory is absurd and it contradicts the first law of physics. If you want to entertain an absurd theory, who am I to stop you? I just happen to suspect there is a much more tenacious story about the universe that does not require an infinity cap. These perspectives I entertain readily accept what physics calls "nasty infinity", and this notion lends way to all manner of possibilities beyond the walls of our current understanding. While I may not be beyond those walls, I at least recognize that they are indeed walls and that there is more beyond those barriers that can be discovered.


Summary? Bitching about humans lying and having an ability to alter it's environment? Point? non-decipherable. I'd also like to know how it violates a law that wasn't even in place before the universe began.(Whatever this law is because there is no first law of physics.) Just the same a scientific theory or law isn't the same thing as one in layman's terms. Need I fetch definitions?

Athavulf

Condescending. b***h.


I already admitted there was some condescending parts, but they don't make up the majority of the post...That's what I was talking about.

Athavulf

The side of me not facing the light bulb is dark because it's in my shadow. Same with the planet. At night, what is blocking the sun's light? The Earth. Or do you think that a shadow is only the 2D image that gets displayed on distant surfaces? At midnight, the part of the planet you are on at 12:00 is within (or around - further from the equator) the umbra of the Earth's shadow.


neutral I suppose it's sort of the same thing, but it's not our shadow causing it to be dark. If there was no light source, it would ALL be dark. Get what I'm trying to get at? The night is cause by the lack of the sun, not the Earth's shadow.

Athavulf

There is no night, really. Imagine someone shines a flashlight in your eyes while outside on a dark "night". This is similar to what is happening to the Earth during the day, were the Sun a flashlight and the Earth your face. Now imagine someone were shining the flashlight at you from a far away mountain top. While you may notice a faint flicker in the distance, the light does not engulf your vision as it would at 3 feet away. Same with the stars.


I totally get that, what you don't seem to get is there would be an infinite number of these points all blurred together, because there would have been infinite time for it to have gotten there. That's what I was trying to explain, because you so greatly rebel against anything modern science has to say, because you know more than the scientists themselves? No. I'm a third year physics major, not a PH.D. Doesn't mean they are wrong cause you can't wrap your mind around it.

Athavulf

You can't figure out why night is dark perhaps. I totally get your entire patronizing room full of light bulbs and I get the pennies on a balloon conceptual model of the expanding universe theory. Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before and read enough. First of all, let's say this room full of light bulbs had no walls, no limits, and scant few surfaces to reflect light off of. All the light emitted from all the little now-hovering lights would be free to venture outwards indefinitely or until it found a random object to redirect it partially. These models are cute and all, but if this is all physics boils its fundamental principles down to, then it is not impressive enough to take seriously. A balloon? No. Just no. Get real. Maybe if you can explain the workings of a multidimensional balloon, perhaps.


You didn't address the microwave radiation point, but I'll move on. I understand that your room is supposed to represent an infinite universe yes? One where there is no actual limit? That is one way to solve the black night problem, but it still doesn't address the background radiation.

It wasn't actually the pennies on the balloon it, was just a balloon with a mini you inside. The Balloon IS the universe. It's a 3-D object that expands into a spheroid shape when blown up. I'm using these examples to communicate my ideas easily so it's understandable to anyone who reads it. These models are all represented by math, constants, ect. These are the water-down versions that everyday people can understand. It has to be in math form for you to find them impressive? I find it more impressive that they are able to make these concepts into models for everyday people.

Athavulf

It expanded within what?


It just expands. Unlike a piece of matter in our universe, the universe itself doesn't have to expand into ANYTHING. Dimensions, time, and matter don't exist until the universe expands outward. Basically, it doesn't have to have a framework to expand into when it is the framework. You need to let go of the concept of the universe as an object, able expand into something, and see it as all existence.

Athavulf

More condescension on your part, totally uncalled for. Do you understand? Where, when, why, how this dubious big bang event occurred? Can you really tell me? No, this cannot be explained, only presumed and speculated upon. You claim these things like they were your own experiences. C'mon now... The whole thing is one whole thing. That is the best explanation. Quantum discoveries have revealed that at the base level of reality, non-locality, super-position, time/space indifferentiation, etc are not just feasible, but naturally occurring at that level. If you had to force a model out of me, I would regard lightly the holographic universe concept.


I do actually.

When: ~ 14 billion years ago
Where: "everywhere" as everything existed all at the one point.
Why: That is the big question they have yet to explain. We are getting there with the cycling universe theory OR string theory(Which is highly untested and just math)
How: it's called the great expansion period, and it's what made the background radiation more even than it would have been otherwise. I can explain if you ask.

What about Quantum physics has to do with the Big Bang itself? You'll have to explain where your going here...

Athavulf

Condescending. Your ability to reason is poor.


As it yours. See I can be a quipping a** too. biggrin

Athavulf

Humans, due to their actions, deserve to be insulted. I mean that the "Big Bang Theory" is not something that is real. It is a concept that we created with our monkey brain imagination. All we think about is blowing s**t up.


No. That's all military. Things blow up in nature, or to Supernova not exist either? rolleyes Perhaps you only understand people as blowing s**t up, but life and humanity is more than the sum of it's violent tendencies.

Athavulf

Being in equilibrium and being static are not the "SAME THING". In fact, they are "DIFFERENT THINGS". Modern Physics took the term and made it static. I mean the original sense of the word equilibrium from Latin: æquilibrium, 1608. It was meant to denote balance, a harmonic system. Physics took the word and twisted it to denote some deathly stillness. Static already meant something frozen changeless. The more pure concept of equilibrium I refer to denotes such as nature, ever changing yet somehow impeccably balanced. (Until monkey learned to make bombs)


I'm getting kinda sick of this, but could you not call humanity monkeys? I don't think either species is flattered. Now. in order for the universe is to be equilibrium it in total SUM would not be changing correct? In order for this to occur, it would have to be static. Stop playing semantics with me. For it to be in equilibrium, to the total sum of the universe would have to be neither expanding nor contracting, for if it did either, it would no longer be balanced. Understand? Unfortunately for you the universe is expanding, so I'm not sure what you mean by equilibrium unless you means it's in equilibrium some other way.

Athavulf

I also want you to understand that while I claim that people are stupid, I count myself among them. I know that we don't really know. You, however, seem to have a big Ego complex going on. However, condescend as you might, I also count you among us stupid people. So, we welcome you as equally stupid entities. You don't know and neither do we..


I'm rather sick of being called ignorant. Can we know everything all at once? No. However, there are things we do know and have control over. I may have an ego, but it is no bigger than your claim to be above the theories advanced by the proletariat of scientists. You claim enlightenment by going "beyond" them and admitting your own ignorance with no attempts to rectify it, then good for you. As for the rest of humanity leave us out of it.
Vixianna


I'm rather sick of being called ignorant. Can we know everything all at once? No. However, there are things we do know and have control over. I may have an ego, but it is no bigger than your claim to be above the theories advanced by the proletariat of scientists. You claim enlightenment by going "beyond" them and admitting your own ignorance with no attempts to rectify it, then good for you. As for the rest of humanity leave us out of it.


I wont go in the matter of the discussing physics (as that was not even close to the original topic).
I'll just address two matters.

If you are sick of being called ignorant, then stop acting that way. I am by nature not a rude person, but sometimes I can get ticked off. I think it is very rude to demand that someone takes the theories you like as the only true one, but call all others a lie.

Because, honey, it is called the *Big Bang* theory for a reason.

And the second matter, get a life, honey. And spend your time learning, so maybe one day you'll have that Ph.D. Because you sure wont earn it by spending your time on Gaia. And three months and almost 3000 posts nagging other people and not letting them have an opinion different from yours is, to tell the truth, stupid.
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hikari mangetsu
Vixianna


I'm rather sick of being called ignorant. Can we know everything all at once? No. However, there are things we do know and have control over. I may have an ego, but it is no bigger than your claim to be above the theories advanced by the proletariat of scientists. You claim enlightenment by going "beyond" them and admitting your own ignorance with no attempts to rectify it, then good for you. As for the rest of humanity leave us out of it.


I wont go in the matter of the discussing physics (as that was not even close to the original topic).
I'll just address two matters.

If you are sick of being called ignorant, then stop acting that way. I am by nature not a rude person, but sometimes I can get ticked off. I think it is very rude to demand that someone takes the theories you like as the only true one, but call all others a lie.

Because, honey, it is called the *Big Bang* theory for a reason.

And the second matter, get a life, honey. And spend your time learning, so maybe one day you'll have that Ph.D. Because you sure wont earn it by spending your time on Gaia. And three months and almost 3000 posts nagging other people and not letting them have an opinion different from yours is, to tell the truth, stupid.


So I suppose I DO have to post those definitions then?

Alright: "To scientists, a theory provides a coherent explanation that holds true for a large number of facts and observations about the natural world. ..." OR "An explanation of why and how a specific natural phenomenon occurs."

I'm also rather tired of non-scientist just screaming " It's a theory!!!111!1!" over and over, instead of explaining what's wrong with it. Are scientific theories falsifiable? Yup. But the onus is on you to prove it's false, considering it's backed by plenty of facts...

Finally, it's called summer, free time and the week end. Thanks much. I 'm free to do with it as I like, I am still in school you know. And less YOU have a Ph.D you're one to talk. They are allowed to present their opinion, it's not my fault if it's inaccurate and stupid. I have no obligation to accept a theory going counter to years of science without even a single CITE thanks much. I'm rather done with this thread, and now i know why others stopped posting.
Stygian Soleil
I'm calling bullshit on this whole concept. Giants with nuclear bombs, that is.


the theory is more credible than not. The historical races of knowledge and ancient power were the identical races to work on the Manhattan Project. That's easy enough to look up. You have your Aryans, Jews, and Hindus working on the Project with a Jewish guy named Oppenheimer speaking in Germanic English quoting from the Hindu Mahabharata while he witnesses the detonation of the first atomic Bomb. It's all there. It gets weirder when you look at the Space Elevator project in terms of a Tower of Babel, or compare the Ethiopian Book of Luminaries with the sources used by Lovecraft to form his Cthulhu mythos.
Vixianna


So I suppose I DO have to post those definitions then?

Alright: "To scientists, a theory provides a coherent explanation that holds true for a large number of facts and observations about the natural world. ..." OR "An explanation of why and how a specific natural phenomenon occurs."

I'm also rather tired of non-scientist just screaming " It's a theory!!!111!1!" over and over, instead of explaining what's wrong with it. Are scientific theories falsifiable? Yup. But the onus is on you to prove it's false, considering it's backed by plenty of facts...

Finally, it's called summer, free time and the week end. Thanks much. I 'm free to do with it as I like, I am still in school you know. And less YOU have a Ph.D you're one to talk. They are allowed to present their opinion, it's not my fault if it's inaccurate and stupid. I have no obligation to accept a theory going counter to years of science without even a single CITE thanks much. I'm rather done with this thread, and now i know why others stopped posting.


Summer is over, I have a major in my field (not that it is any of your business).

Oh, and people have believed that earth was flat and the center of the universe for a lot longer then we now say that it is a sphere moving around bloody yellow star of a spectral class of G2V (oh, do I need a citation for this?!). So according to your own point of view we should still believe that the world is a board on the back of a turtle.

Think about it a bit, before you try to demean people for believing differently then you are.
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hikari mangetsu

Summer is over, I have a major in my field (not that it is any of your business).

Oh, and people have believed that earth was flat and the center of the universe for a lot longer then we now say that it is a sphere moving around bloody yellow star of a spectral class of G2V (oh, do I need a citation for this?!). So according to your own point of view we should still believe that the world is a board on the back of a turtle.

Think about it a bit, before you try to demean people for believing differently then you are.


Did you forget the free time and weekends things? Fine then. Enjoy your reality and I'll enjoy mine, I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, I'm saying if you wanna go against a giant at least bring a weapon.
Vixianna


Did you forget the free time and weekends things? Fine then. Enjoy your reality and I'll enjoy mine, I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, I'm saying if you wanna go against a giant at least bring a weapon.


Oh, honey, do not worry about me not bringing a weapon. But there are different ways of soothing a dragon, or a giant. Sometimes brute force is not the answer. But neither is stubbornness. Silent water crushes the rock, not the other way around.

Aim to be like water in life, let it flow the way it should. Time will tell which theories are wrong.
Vixianna, I really don't have the time and patience to get into it with you, but I should at least clarify my reasoning. The way I figure it, no institution of thought ever to have existed among Hominid species has ever found out what reality or the universe is about. None of them. Now I don't mean to imply that any one of them is wrong, but that they all are reaching away from each other in hopes of finding "the answer". If we learned, as an entire technologically equipped species, to communicate with each other instead of bash each others astute miscomprehensions. Imagine if all of the "fields" of science were to merge? Do they not all study the same thing, in essence? What have they all found? Similar phenomena to occur at each level of reality.. apart from the very special "Zero Point Emissions" that Newton purposefully concocted a formula to remove ZP energy from his (and his colleagues' ) formulas.

Now to answer your question about "the first law of physics", scratch that and replace it with "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

One thing you said did grab my attention..

Vixianna
It just expands. Unlike a piece of matter in our universe, the universe itself doesn't have to expand into ANYTHING. Dimensions, time, and matter don't exist until the universe expands outward. Basically, it doesn't have to have a framework to expand into when it is the framework. You need to let go of the concept of the universe as an object, able expand into something, and see it as all existence.


You sound like you already accept the universe is multidimensional. So if you can embrace the fractal universe concept, you can see how the universe is expanding into itself, and in the other sense retracting itself. Have a look into "inverse matter" for an idea of where this is going. Also, remember that sub-atomic activity does not adhere to 3D "laws", yet it is the foundation for said dimension. Here's a link accounting quantum activity for photosynthesis and other scientific phenomena. It's just a Discovery article, no "cite wars" plx. Also, try a search for "Hawaiian Bobtail" Squid and "technology" for an interesting read. Wanna go way extradimensional? Research Dimethyltryptamine. "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman is the official lab report compilation in book form. Anyhow, all of the previous notions press eagerly against the selective reasoning of the segregated sciences whose biases disallow them to fully comprehend the nature of reality. While science has done amazing things for us throughout history, the majority of inventions can be sorted into 2 categories: "Novel" and "Destructive". Were money not jammed up science's and the educational system's collective posterior, we may be able to add another category: "Conductive".
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hikari mangetsu
Vixianna


Did you forget the free time and weekends things? Fine then. Enjoy your reality and I'll enjoy mine, I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, I'm saying if you wanna go against a giant at least bring a weapon.


Oh, honey, do not worry about me not bringing a weapon. But there are different ways of soothing a dragon, or a giant. Sometimes brute force is not the answer. But neither is stubbornness. Silent water crushes the rock, not the other way around.

Aim to be like water in life, let it flow the way it should. Time will tell which theories are wrong.


Weapon as in cites. Dragon as in accepted science. Galileo didn't come with bullshit and no mental exercises hun. He came with experiments and observations. Come to battle prepared, bring a cite or something , and when your is truth the battle will win itself.
Vixianna
hikari mangetsu

Summer is over, I have a major in my field (not that it is any of your business).

Oh, and people have believed that earth was flat and the center of the universe for a lot longer then we now say that it is a sphere moving around bloody yellow star of a spectral class of G2V (oh, do I need a citation for this?!). So according to your own point of view we should still believe that the world is a board on the back of a turtle.

Think about it a bit, before you try to demean people for believing differently then you are.


Did you forget the free time and weekends things? Fine then. Enjoy your reality and I'll enjoy mine, I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, I'm saying if you wanna go against a giant at least bring a weapon.


I do like that last line of reasoning there.. It reminds me of this picture:

User Image


3nodding
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Athavulf
Vixianna, I really don't have the time and patience to get into it with you, but I should at least clarify my reasoning. The way I figure it, no institution of thought ever to have existed among Hominid species has ever found out what reality or the universe is about. None of them. Now I don't mean to imply that any one of them is wrong, but that they all are reaching away from each other in hopes of finding "the answer". If we learned, as an entire technologically equipped species, to communicate with each other instead of bash each others astute miscomprehensions. Imagine if all of the "fields" of science were to merge? Do they not all study the same thing, in essence? What have they all found? Similar phenomena to occur at each level of reality.. apart from the very special "Zero Point Emissions" that Newton purposefully concocted a formula to remove ZP energy from his (and his colleagues' ) formulas.

Now to answer your question about "the first law of physics", scratch that and replace it with "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"


So you argue from ignorance and tradition? Fallacies. Just because we haven't "in the past" doesn't mean the future is certain, nor does either yours or mine lack of understanding of the complete picture of reality necessitate that it doesn't exist or that it is a futile search.

So you claim that the law of Newton(He's the one who postulated this law) is violated by the Expansion of the universe? Your thinking to small there is a reaction, but it isn't non-expansion The effect of the expansion is transferred into the energy held within the universe, and namely the Microwave background. As the universe expanded, the background energy "diluted". There problem "solved".(It was never really there) And let me explain why. The laws of physics only deal with realities inside of our universe. Only the matter and energy within the universe is effected by this Law therefore, the universe itself as it expands is not.

Athavulf

One thing you said did grab my attention...


Glad to see we are getting somewhere.

Athavulf

You sound like you already accept the universe is multidimensional. So if you can embrace the fractal universe concept, you can see how the universe is expanding into itself, and in the other sense retracting itself. Have a look into "inverse matter" for an idea of where this is going. Also, remember that sub-atomic activity does not adhere to 3D "laws", yet it is the foundation for said dimension. Here's a link accounting quantum activity for photosynthesis and other scientific phenomena. It's just a Discovery article, no "cite wars" plx. Also, try a search for "Hawaiian Bobtail" Squid and "technology" for an interesting read. Wanna go way extradimensional? Research Dimethyltryptamine. "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman is the official lab report compilation in book form. Anyhow, all of the previous notions press eagerly against the selective reasoning of the segregated sciences whose biases disallow them to fully comprehend the nature of reality. While science has done amazing things for us throughout history, the majority of inventions can be sorted into 2 categories: "Novel" and "Destructive". Were money not jammed up science's and the educational system's collective posterior, we may be able to add another category: "Conductive".


By multidimensional do you mean possessing more than 3 dimensions, OR do you mean that this "reality" and that of the stars is not the entire universe? I have accepted neither.

My attempts to explain to need to some mental hurdles to be crossed, as it is outside the normal realms of everyone's everyday thought. (except for those you posit such things) I'll ask you to once again step inside the Balloon. It's the best I can come up with at the moment. Remember you exist inside the balloon and can't see anything outside. The Balloon is a separate entity just existing without a framework around it. It just is . Look up at the "ceiling" of your blue balloon and you'll see 90 degrees from your horizontal eye level site. Down is 180 from that. and back is 180 from staring right in front of you. Now you are oriented. You can only move within the bounds of the sides of the balloon. These are the edges of your "universe". Now the balloon expands. The edges grow and grow until you can no longer cross them yourself. It continues growing until you can no longer see the edges. The Balloon is very large by this point. Let's say this finite thing represents the universe now, and the deflated contracted Balloon at the beginning represents the Universe pre-Big Bang.( I hope to be able to use these analogies permanently) Now the balloon represents your whole reality. You can not see beyond the edges of the Balloon, be that because it is finite(like in our example) or because the information(represented as light in our universe) has yet to reach us(infinite in size but not age). In any case, while the universe expands, it matters not "what" it expands into not only because it need not expand "into" anything, but because the universe itself can't be effected by anything outside of the Balloon without it breaking.(This would be a tear in the fabric of the Universe very BAD) In short, whether of not our universe is expanding into "anything" isn't the point. It can't effect us, we can't effect it, and that's if "It" even exists at all.

I've heard of the Molecule(Spiritual) before and thanks for the article, cross field work is always nice to hear about. It's an interesting article and I will look up the rest.

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