Amy Wallace is my hero (Wired Article on vaccines)

[Supa Beanie]

Redem

Supa Beanie

Of course they weren't found guilty of murder it was just a few poor children. Do you honestly naivly believe that anyone in the 'civilized' world is going to prosecute a big pharmesutical company for killing a few poor black kids? It happens constantly, and it's not like you can cite internet sites as proof because as soon as a story crops up about it, it's squished almost as quickly as it appeared.

They were prosecuted for the deaths of some of the children involved, so that about demolishes that claim.
The problem is that you are seeing the words "11 subjects died" and translating that as "11 subjects were murdered", and your basis for this is as flimsy as your innate prejudice against the companies involved.

Supa Beanie

I know this for a fact because I've researched it for a couple of years now, and the stories are always written off as unauthorized rumors. Which is really fishy considering that hundreds of thousands of of these stories exist, a woman in Africa will sell her baby to a company to be tested on just to pay her rent. I know this because I know several people who live in south africa who see it happen on a daily basis. Where is the proof on the internet, or in the news? It's nowhere, because if it becomes public knowledge they would be held accountable and have to stop their murder and horrible testing.

People in the west are paid for participating in medical trails as well. What the hell is so damn wrong with that, exactly? And how does paying someone to paricipate in a trial amount to murder if they die? Murder is the premeditated and malicious killing of an individual. Someone on a drug trial having an adverse reaction and dying is an accident.

You can't just equate the two.

Selling your baby so it can be experimented on is in no way shape or form the same as what we do in the west. Over there they have free reign to do whatever they want, including killing the child with their testing. What do they do with the body? Simply throw it in the trash like they would a lab rat that didn't survive the last round of testing. It's not like this woman is signing paperwork and making sure her kid is ok, she's taking cash money handing them her kid and walking away as though it never existed. If that's not murder, then you're a sick human being.
You can buy into what the media tells you about what they do all you want, just because I believe differently does make me wrong. Your basis for believing what they feed you is just as flimsy and is flat out blind following. The media has been known to flat out lie for companies and political causes for money or political gain. There's not a single story floating around out there who's validity and truthfulness can't be questioned to some degree.

[Supa Beanie]

Anakha the Silver

You know, you two who claim" OMG, BIG PHARMA IS OUT TO KILL US!!!!!1!1!!!11!!!!!!!1111!"

...

I'm betting you believe I was poisoned when I found out I was allergic to azithromycin.

Murder and allergies hardly go hand in hand, exaggerate much? The only thing I find wrong is when governments suspiciously push vaccines that haven't been tested enough to really be on the market. Like the vaccine for cervical cancer they're trying to make manditory for all girls age 14 and up. It appeared on the market suddenly without much testing, they're not even sure it does what they say it does. Knowing this, why the urgent push for everyone to take it, since when does the government have the right to tell people that they have to put something in their bodies and don't have a choice. The same thing goes for the h1n1 vaccine, there's no proof that it will vaccinate against h1n1 but there's a big hysteria over it and the government is telling people that it's manditory. It just seems really fishy to me considering there aren't going to be anymore people dying from h1n1 than they do from the normal flu considering that the number projected for it were EXACTLY the same as the numbers for a normal flu season. You also don't see any 14 year olds dying of cervical cancer, so why this sudden big rush to inject a highly untested vaccine into abunch of kids?

[Redem]

Supa Beanie

Selling your baby so it can be experimented on is in no way shape or form the same as what we do in the west. Over there they have free reign to do whatever they want, including killing the child with their testing. What do they do with the body? Simply throw it in the trash like they would a lab rat that didn't survive the last round of testing. It's not like this woman is signing paperwork and making sure her kid is ok, she's taking cash money handing them her kid and walking away as though it never existed. If that's not murder, then you're a sick human being.

Prove that this is happening just as you describe it, and that it is widespread.

Supa Beanie

You can buy into what the media tells you about what they do all you want, just because I believe differently does make me wrong. Your basis for believing what they feed you is just as flimsy and is flat out blind following. The media has been known to flat out lie for companies and political causes for money or political gain. There's not a single story floating around out there who's validity and truthfulness can't be questioned to some degree.

And yet you choose to believe some "alt media" website or baseless internet rumourmongering instead? Hypocrite.

What makes your opinion wrong is that it is utterly baseless and laughably implausible.

What motivation is there for a pharmaceutical company to randomly kill brown people? lulz? profit? some grand worldwide plan to ethnically cleanse africa?

Either they're not guilty, or they're the absolute worst murders in history.

[Supa Beanie]

Redem

Supa Beanie

Selling your baby so it can be experimented on is in no way shape or form the same as what we do in the west. Over there they have free reign to do whatever they want, including killing the child with their testing. What do they do with the body? Simply throw it in the trash like they would a lab rat that didn't survive the last round of testing. It's not like this woman is signing paperwork and making sure her kid is ok, she's taking cash money handing them her kid and walking away as though it never existed. If that's not murder, then you're a sick human being.

Prove that this is happening just as you describe it, and that it is widespread.

Supa Beanie

You can buy into what the media tells you about what they do all you want, just because I believe differently does make me wrong. Your basis for believing what they feed you is just as flimsy and is flat out blind following. The media has been known to flat out lie for companies and political causes for money or political gain. There's not a single story floating around out there who's validity and truthfulness can't be questioned to some degree.

And yet you choose to believe some "alt media" website or baseless internet rumourmongering instead? Hypocrite.

What makes your opinion wrong is that it is utterly baseless and laughably implausible.

What motivation is there for a pharmaceutical company to randomly kill brown people? lulz? profit? some grand worldwide plan to ethnically cleanse africa?

Either they're not guilty, or they're the absolute worst murders in history.

You know, I never claimed it was because of skin color, I only stated one country that I know of myself. Just because it's implausible to your comfortable fat American mind where everything is hunky dory and bad things don't happen, doesn't make it untrue. They're not out to kill a race of people, you seriously should try reading instead of trying to act smart, they're doing this testing in poor countries where it won't be documented and even if it was it's not illegal in these third world countries. You think they're going to write "little brown kid we bought from some poor brown woman on the street" on the line that asks what test subject they're using? Seriously Americans have gotten so comfortable with American law and the way we do things, you've allowed our comfortable lifestyle to evolve into ignorance and disbelief because things are so great here nothing horrible happens anywhere either. You know of course they operate under the same rules and laws as we do, because it's America. Please, pull your head out of your comfortable little world, it happens, and you're being willfully ignorant by writing it off as "rumor mongering."

[Redem]

Supa Beanie

The only thing I find wrong is when governments suspiciously push vaccines that haven't been tested enough to really be on the market. Like the vaccine for cervical cancer they're trying to make manditory for all girls age 14 and up. It appeared on the market suddenly without much testing, they're not even sure it does what they say it does.

"Suddenly"? It's been in development for decades, has has been subject to the same approval regeime as all other medication, includeing large scale double blind studies.
It's 100% effective against the targetted HPV types and about 40% effective against many more types.

Oh, they're pretty sure alright.

Supa Beanie

Knowing this, why the urgent push for everyone to take it, since when does the government have the right to tell people that they have to put something in their bodies and don't have a choice.
...
You also don't see any 14 year olds dying of cervical cancer, so why this sudden big rush to inject a highly untested vaccine into abunch of kids?

Simple enough. The vaccine has to be given before the virus to contracted to be effective, in other words to ensure maximum effectiveness it needs to be given before the targetted group is sexually active.
14 is the age they've gone for, althoguh I would argue earlier would be better.

Supa Beanie

The same thing goes for the h1n1 vaccine, there's no proof that it will vaccinate against h1n1 but there's a big hysteria over it and the government is telling people that it's manditory. It just seems really fishy to me considering there aren't going to be anymore people dying from h1n1 than they do from the normal flu considering that the number projected for it were EXACTLY the same as the numbers for a normal flu season.

There is no mandatory vaccination against swine flu (don't use the term h1n1, it's misleading and confusing). Besides that, this one strain of Swine Flu is projected to kill as many people as all of the nromal seasonal flu strains combined. That's pretty worrying. Flu season will be twice as bad as usual. Tens of thousands of extra deaths.
And, unlike normal season flu, this one targets people who are not in traditional risk groups, such as healthy young adults.

[Redem]

Supa Beanie

You know, I never claimed it was because of skin color, I only stated one country that I know of myself. Just because it's implausible to your comfortable fat American mind where everything is hunky dory and bad things don't happen, doesn't make it untrue. They're not out to kill a race of people, you seriously should try reading instead of trying to act smart, they're doing this testing in poor countries where it won't be documented and even if it was it's not illegal in these third world countries. You think they're going to write "little brown kid we bought from some poor brown woman on the street" on the line that asks what test subject they're using? Seriously Americans have gotten so comfortable with American law and the way we do things, you've allowed our comfortable lifestyle to evolve into ignorance and disbelief because things are so great here nothing horrible happens anywhere either. You know of course they operate under the same rules and laws as we do, because it's America. Please, pull your head out of your comfortable little world, it happens, and you're being willfully ignorant by writing it off as "rumor mongering."

Well, I'm from Northern Ireland, I know full well life isn't "hunky dory", that bad s**t happens sometimes. I also know it doesn't always indicate a shadowy conspiracy when it does go wrong.

Give me a plausible motivation for the acts you're claiming occur, if you're not going to bother providing evidence.

[Supa Beanie]

Redem

Supa Beanie

The only thing I find wrong is when governments suspiciously push vaccines that haven't been tested enough to really be on the market. Like the vaccine for cervical cancer they're trying to make manditory for all girls age 14 and up. It appeared on the market suddenly without much testing, they're not even sure it does what they say it does.

"Suddenly"? It's been in development for decades, has has been subject to the same approval regeime as all other medication, includeing large scale double blind studies.
It's 100% effective against the targetted HPV types and about 40% effective against many more types.

Oh, they're pretty sure alright.

Supa Beanie

Knowing this, why the urgent push for everyone to take it, since when does the government have the right to tell people that they have to put something in their bodies and don't have a choice.
...
You also don't see any 14 year olds dying of cervical cancer, so why this sudden big rush to inject a highly untested vaccine into abunch of kids?

Simple enough. The vaccine has to be given before the virus to contracted to be effective, in other words to ensure maximum effectiveness it needs to be given before the targetted group is sexually active.
14 is the age they've gone for, althoguh I would argue earlier would be better.

Supa Beanie

The same thing goes for the h1n1 vaccine, there's no proof that it will vaccinate against h1n1 but there's a big hysteria over it and the government is telling people that it's manditory. It just seems really fishy to me considering there aren't going to be anymore people dying from h1n1 than they do from the normal flu considering that the number projected for it were EXACTLY the same as the numbers for a normal flu season.

There is no mandatory vaccination against swine flu (don't use the term h1n1, it's misleading and confusing). Besides that, this one strain of Swine Flu is projected to kill as many people as all of the nromal seasonal flu strains combined. That's pretty worrying. Flu season will be twice as bad as usual. Tens of thousands of extra deaths.
And, unlike normal season flu, this one targets people who are not in traditional risk groups, such as healthy young adults.

First off, you can believe what you want about the HPV vaccine, I don't buy it. I think it's just another case of being spoon fed information that nobody can prove is true, it's just really fishy this sudden push and controversy over it. I don't really buy that about the swine flu vaccine either, the numbers drawn up will be all of the strains combined anyway, so what you said doesn't make any sense. When they project flu numbers it's always lumped, they don't put out seperate findings for each strain out there it would take forever. By the way read this, there are a few very telling remarks in it concerning the Africa situation, they are of course watered down and sterilized, but telling none the less.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/FDAinDrugTrial.php


"not yet approved for testing in the US or anywhere else in the world"

"it was unlikely to gain approval for a clinical trial in the US; so, like other companies, it decided to target Third World countries where regulations are lax."

"It is doubtful whether informed consent was obtained." <----meaning money was paid and the women whose children were involved are trying to bank off of the publicity


The latter day US Government, however, offers powerful incentives to pharmaceutical companies to test on children. Companies that voluntarily test drugs on children are given a “paediatric exclusivity provision” which adds six months of patent protection or market exclusivity to their product, and means more profits [10]

[A Lost Iguana]

Supa Beanie

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/FDAinDrugTrial.php

lol

[Autie Lady]

I love how people who scream "OMG big pharma is doing it for the monies!" forget how much crap Generation Rescue recommended DAN doctors sell of supplements and chelation and unnecessary tests. Or the fact that Jenny McCarthy and others in the anti-vaccine movement churn out books constantly stating the same thing. Or the fact Dr. Wakefield filed his own patent for his own vaccine version. Or the constant lawsuits.

And it disturbs me very much that J.B. Handley felt it was okay to make a comment about rape. Yea, that's pretty wrong; especially a grown man who's supposed to be a professional.

[Redem]

Supa Beanie

First off, you can believe what you want about the HPV vaccine, I don't buy it. I think it's just another case of being spoon fed information that nobody can prove is true, it's just really fishy this sudden push and controversy over it.

"Belief" doesn't come into it, ether there is evidence or there is not.
And the evidence is overwhelmingly against your notion that this is an unsafe rushed vaccine that is being used on young girls for some unknown but certainly nefarious purpose.

The "suddenness" is fairly easy to explain. It's only recently been approved for use, and thus has only recently been a serious political issue.

Supa Beanie

I don't really buy that about the swine flu vaccine either, the numbers drawn up will be all of the strains combined anyway, so what you said doesn't make any sense. When they project flu numbers it's always lumped, they don't put out seperate findings for each strain out there it would take forever.

They do this year, for obvious reasons, although I can't find the link and can't afford to spend time looking for it at work.

Supa Beanie

By the way read this, there are a few very telling remarks in it concerning the Africa situation, they are of course watered down and sterilized, but telling none the less.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/FDAinDrugTrial.php


"not yet approved for testing in the US or anywhere else in the world"

"it was unlikely to gain approval for a clinical trial in the US; so, like other companies, it decided to target Third World countries where regulations are lax."

Ooooh naughty, but hardly indicative of anything more nefarious than making use of corruption or lax regulations in other nations to save a bit of money and time.

Supa Beanie

"It is doubtful whether informed consent was obtained." <----meaning money was paid and the women whose children were involved are trying to bank off of the publicity

No, meaning that the women was deemed unable to understand precisely what she was volunteering for. Informed consent has nothing to do with money.

Supa Beanie

The latter day US Government, however, offers powerful incentives to pharmaceutical companies to test on children. Companies that voluntarily test drugs on children are given a “paediatric exclusivity provision” which adds six months of patent protection or market exclusivity to their product, and means more profits [10]

Yes, for obvious reasons. Drugs that are to be used on children need to be tested on children. Which is risky for the company, so they require greater than average motivation.

[Prince Baldr]

As someone actually in the medical field I can tell you that the anti-vax morons are beyond help. The research and numbers they throw around are inconclusive or just plain bad research. People who promote this dark-age hysteric approach are either misinformed laypeople or worse medical professionals looking for 15 minutes of fave or $$$.

If you don't believe me fine, but for a moment look ate the state of health now, and compare it to the state of heal before the advent of the vaccine.

[A Lost Iguana]

Eirikir

As someone actually in the medical field I can tell you that the anti-vax morons are beyond help. The research and numbers they throw around are inconclusive or just plain bad research. People who promote this dark-age hysteric approach are either misinformed laypeople or worse medical professionals looking for 15 minutes of fave or $$$.

If you don't believe me fine, but for a moment look ate the state of health now, and compare it to the state of heal before the advent of the vaccine.

rolleyes

As an actual mother I know that vaccines are harming children. Vaccines, anti-biotics and all this evil nonsense. We coped well enough before your meddling kind, we will cope just without you. A good diet of juices and coffee enemas is all you need, people! 3nodding

Arrogant scientists.

[Anakha the Silver]

A Lost Iguana

Eirikir

As someone actually in the medical field I can tell you that the anti-vax morons are beyond help. The research and numbers they throw around are inconclusive or just plain bad research. People who promote this dark-age hysteric approach are either misinformed laypeople or worse medical professionals looking for 15 minutes of fave or $$$.

If you don't believe me fine, but for a moment look ate the state of health now, and compare it to the state of heal before the advent of the vaccine.

rolleyes

As an actual mother I know that vaccines are harming children. Vaccines, anti-biotics and all this evil nonsense. We coped well enough before your meddling kind, we will cope just without you. A good diet of juices and coffee enemas is all you need, people! 3nodding

Arrogant scientists.

Please, PLEASE tell me me you're just joking.

Because, you do realize child mortality rates were HIGHER before vaccines, right?

[The Last Reminisce]

Anakha the Silver

A Lost Iguana

Eirikir

As someone actually in the medical field I can tell you that the anti-vax morons are beyond help. The research and numbers they throw around are inconclusive or just plain bad research. People who promote this dark-age hysteric approach are either misinformed laypeople or worse medical professionals looking for 15 minutes of fave or $$$.

If you don't believe me fine, but for a moment look ate the state of health now, and compare it to the state of heal before the advent of the vaccine.

rolleyes

As an actual mother I know that vaccines are harming children. Vaccines, anti-biotics and all this evil nonsense. We coped well enough before your meddling kind, we will cope just without you. A good diet of juices and coffee enemas is all you need, people! 3nodding

Arrogant scientists.

Please, PLEASE tell me me you're just joking.

Because, you do realize child mortality rates were HIGHER before vaccines, right?

I bet Obama coats his walls with your blood every time he repaints the inside of the Whitehouse.
Edit: Source please on the morality rates.