A question for those against abortion

[0-gitaroo_man-0]

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

0-gitaroo_man-0

I can tell i'm really not going to like you -_-

Don't be like that!

Quote:

And you don't go unconscious when you are asleep that's insane, you're still fully aware of your sorroundings.

Are you constantly aware when you're sleeping? I'm not. I know a lot of people who aren't. Sleep is a little more complex than this, to be honest, but at the same time you are generally considered unconscious particularly because while you can be awakened you are actually not aware, esp. in deeper levels of sleep.

Quote:

And i'm talking about the dualist theory that most people believe in... that mind is seperate from and above the brain.

Um... I am almost sure that even from a doctor's perspective the mind and body are recognized as different; the mind has changed a bit in concept but has never really been in the body. The concept that they are interwoven is actually new. So we agree!

Alright I did agree with some of your stuff against Sarnath so I take it back... I just dislike you a little bit :]

What I meant was that I think it's absurd to say that you are unconscious, granted your brain slows down and will not process as many functions but you still HAVE consciousness.

And actually no it used to be thought that your mind was in your heart, but this is like greek times. And now if you ask someone to point to their mind they'd generally point to their brain. It's not the concept of them being interwoven that's new it's the whether the mind actually exists at all is new.

[Nonesuch Solo]

x Sarnath x

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

So what if "killing a baby" is being "selfish?" Don't do it yourself if it bothers you, Sorry, but not every girl wants to get down on her knees in the kitchen and hang up her career plans to give birth to a baby she doesn't want.

The problem with this argument is that many lifers believe that the unborn is the victim here. It's not like having bright pink hair or something where you can honestly say "Don't like it? Don't do it." This is an issue, to them, where there is an unborn victim of violence that does not have its own voice.

Seriously. That's like telling a PeTA member "Don't like the fur industry skinning critters alive? Don't buy furs!" as if they should ignore the fact that it still happens and is still just as wrong in their minds.



Isn't it more empowering to women to encourage proper use of preventative measures to help prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place than saying "Be afraid! Be very, very afraid! Your frail female bodies can easily become pregnant and this will damage them irreparably! Be AFRAID, women! But don't worry, we'll come to the rescue after you have to deal with the emotional trauma of the pregnancy scare, the terrifying period of wondering whether to tell your partner or not, and god forbid you're a minor and have to worry about your parents finding out, hoo-boy! Yes, we're more concerned that we can help you AFTER you go through peeing on a stick in secret and crying because you don't want a baby yet, you don't want to give up your life yet, how could this have happened, you were so careful (or were you careless and feel even more guilty?). We'll help you, us, the saviors of frail, pregnancy-prone womankind."

Yeah, but what if you simply don't care about the unborn? It's a tiny little thing that belongs to no one but you and your partner. If you reject it from your life, why is this an issue to other people? They can have it if they want. lol
You might say "But what if you're a murderer and you don't care about the person you killed?" It isn't the same. This baby could potentially ******** up a girl's life. And nature is inherently unfair. It's the woman that has to go through with it. It's the girl that has to ruin her body and sacrifice her dignity. And to be forced to have a baby when it's the last thing you want... I really can't think of anything more humiliating.

It's an unwanted guest in your own body. Something living in you, feeding off you. I know mothers are portrayed as being "caring" and "loving" and all that s**t by the movies/books, but what about women who simply don't want a baby and don't give a ********?

There's a simple solution... It's already legal, and it's going to stay that way. xP

Just because someone "doesn't care" about something doesn't mean it is undeserving of rights. Not caring is not a good argument, dear. Obviously, other people DO care, and their belief that the unborn should not be terminated at the whim of a woman does not falter simply because a woman doesn't care about the unborn.


You mentioned earlier your irrational fear of pregnancy. Wouldn't you prefer not to live with this fear? Like Cutie-pie Sleepyhead says, wouldn't it be best if reversible sterilization were performed early on in life so that nobody would have a pregnancy they did not want?


Ahh, ideal worlds again. The morality of mandatory sterilization is also hotly debated.

[x Sarnath x]

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

So what if "killing a baby" is being "selfish?" Don't do it yourself if it bothers you, Sorry, but not every girl wants to get down on her knees in the kitchen and hang up her career plans to give birth to a baby she doesn't want.

The problem with this argument is that many lifers believe that the unborn is the victim here. It's not like having bright pink hair or something where you can honestly say "Don't like it? Don't do it." This is an issue, to them, where there is an unborn victim of violence that does not have its own voice.

Seriously. That's like telling a PeTA member "Don't like the fur industry skinning critters alive? Don't buy furs!" as if they should ignore the fact that it still happens and is still just as wrong in their minds.



Isn't it more empowering to women to encourage proper use of preventative measures to help prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place than saying "Be afraid! Be very, very afraid! Your frail female bodies can easily become pregnant and this will damage them irreparably! Be AFRAID, women! But don't worry, we'll come to the rescue after you have to deal with the emotional trauma of the pregnancy scare, the terrifying period of wondering whether to tell your partner or not, and god forbid you're a minor and have to worry about your parents finding out, hoo-boy! Yes, we're more concerned that we can help you AFTER you go through peeing on a stick in secret and crying because you don't want a baby yet, you don't want to give up your life yet, how could this have happened, you were so careful (or were you careless and feel even more guilty?). We'll help you, us, the saviors of frail, pregnancy-prone womankind."

Yeah, but what if you simply don't care about the unborn? It's a tiny little thing that belongs to no one but you and your partner. If you reject it from your life, why is this an issue to other people? They can have it if they want. lol
You might say "But what if you're a murderer and you don't care about the person you killed?" It isn't the same. This baby could potentially ******** up a girl's life. And nature is inherently unfair. It's the woman that has to go through with it. It's the girl that has to ruin her body and sacrifice her dignity. And to be forced to have a baby when it's the last thing you want... I really can't think of anything more humiliating.

It's an unwanted guest in your own body. Something living in you, feeding off you. I know mothers are portrayed as being "caring" and "loving" and all that s**t by the movies/books, but what about women who simply don't want a baby and don't give a ********?

There's a simple solution... It's already legal, and it's going to stay that way. xP

Just because someone "doesn't care" about something doesn't mean it is undeserving of rights. Not caring is not a good argument, dear. Obviously, other people DO care, and their belief that the unborn should not be terminated at the whim of a woman does not falter simply because a woman doesn't care about the unborn.


You mentioned earlier your irrational fear of pregnancy. Wouldn't you prefer not to live with this fear? Like Cutie-pie Sleepyhead says, wouldn't it be best if reversible sterilization were performed early on in life so that nobody would have a pregnancy they did not want?


Ahh, ideal worlds again. The morality of mandatory sterilization is also hotly debated.

Maybe these pro-life people hung up on abortion should worry about their own problems instead of someone else's.
If they care about some girl's unborn fetus so much, they they can find a way to remove it and incubate it themselves. In a way that doesn't involve her - Because she wants no part in it.

Why don't they find something to worry about? How about starving children who are already born? How about kids that were born to families that didn't want them, and who live miserable lives? Instead of being so preoccupied with other people's reproductive rights, they should mind their own business.

Actually, the fear doesn't bother me much at all. You see, I'm not too fond of sex with men to begin with... xP Don't miss it at all.

[I got bored one day]

x Sarnath x

But we can't use Plan B! Oh noes, it might be a baby already! It might have a soul!

xP I know, I know. It PREVENTS fertilization, and the egg hasn't even united with the sperm yet. But I thought it sounded funny.

Hilarious.

Quote:

The point is, it's very important that abortion must remain legal. It would be catastrophic if it was illegal again. It would put woman back on the road to being second-class citizens. It gives girls a sense of control over their lives and their sexuality. You know, gives them the confidence to feel like something more than "baby makers."

This is a slippery slope and absolutely false; for one rape laws, now known as sexual assault laws, were built around the female. Sexual decisions are all female-oriented even in modern society, and this is the case in many progressed countries as well, further females have almost always had the sexual power as we are the biological hunters for mates, they choose them instead of being chosen. Patriarchy itself does not change this, only the econ. of marriage, which is now dying in practice in most advanced populations, goes against this natural rule.

Quote:

I see nothing wrong with abortion, and even if I was interested in sex with men. my own life would be more important to me than the life of some stranger that has never even breathed before.

This is the morality that the entire concept floats on. It's about as thick as air insofar as solid reasoning. Essentially you've done two things:

1. Told me that there's nothing wrong in your viewpoint.

2. Told me to keep my viewpoint off your doorstep.

I don't know about you but if I wanted to it'd be a quick reversal.

Quote:

Abortion is a wonderful thing, and many women would agree.

Ad populum.

Quote:

We aren't living in the middle ages anymore.

Covert meaning; while not a fallacy it's considered dishonest, there's no reason that one has to be against progression in order to refuse this concept, or many others really.

Quote:

People have some choice over what happens to their own bodies now.

There is one thing you'd be right about in regards to the middle ages, women choose their sex partners now. That said, this in all totality is invalid, you can choose to have sex, and have safe sex, and if you were on contraceptives and the condom broke it's easy to show for so it's relatively easy to get an abortion if the intercession is necessary. On that count, the fact that people misuse and abuse everything should not be grounds for legalization.

It's legal because it's practical and girls are stupid. I hate to say such things about groups I am a part of but in my experience girls are stupid about these things. It's just that way.

Quote:

If you had an unsightly tumor growing on your face, wouldn't you want the option of having it cut off?

Thing is, unlike abortion, that is not born of your actions and can be dangerous; if it is not dangerous as a cosmetic procedure unlike abortion it is not done immediately and a certain number of consultations must be made. It's also a cosmetic procedure aimed at improving quality of life geared specifically towards the fact that you are simply an unfortunate recipient and nothing you could do could really prevent it.

Oh, and the fetus is not a disease.

[Nonesuch Solo]

x Sarnath x

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

So what if "killing a baby" is being "selfish?" Don't do it yourself if it bothers you, Sorry, but not every girl wants to get down on her knees in the kitchen and hang up her career plans to give birth to a baby she doesn't want.

The problem with this argument is that many lifers believe that the unborn is the victim here. It's not like having bright pink hair or something where you can honestly say "Don't like it? Don't do it." This is an issue, to them, where there is an unborn victim of violence that does not have its own voice.

Seriously. That's like telling a PeTA member "Don't like the fur industry skinning critters alive? Don't buy furs!" as if they should ignore the fact that it still happens and is still just as wrong in their minds.



Isn't it more empowering to women to encourage proper use of preventative measures to help prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place than saying "Be afraid! Be very, very afraid! Your frail female bodies can easily become pregnant and this will damage them irreparably! Be AFRAID, women! But don't worry, we'll come to the rescue after you have to deal with the emotional trauma of the pregnancy scare, the terrifying period of wondering whether to tell your partner or not, and god forbid you're a minor and have to worry about your parents finding out, hoo-boy! Yes, we're more concerned that we can help you AFTER you go through peeing on a stick in secret and crying because you don't want a baby yet, you don't want to give up your life yet, how could this have happened, you were so careful (or were you careless and feel even more guilty?). We'll help you, us, the saviors of frail, pregnancy-prone womankind."

Yeah, but what if you simply don't care about the unborn? It's a tiny little thing that belongs to no one but you and your partner. If you reject it from your life, why is this an issue to other people? They can have it if they want. lol
You might say "But what if you're a murderer and you don't care about the person you killed?" It isn't the same. This baby could potentially ******** up a girl's life. And nature is inherently unfair. It's the woman that has to go through with it. It's the girl that has to ruin her body and sacrifice her dignity. And to be forced to have a baby when it's the last thing you want... I really can't think of anything more humiliating.

It's an unwanted guest in your own body. Something living in you, feeding off you. I know mothers are portrayed as being "caring" and "loving" and all that s**t by the movies/books, but what about women who simply don't want a baby and don't give a ********?

There's a simple solution... It's already legal, and it's going to stay that way. xP

Just because someone "doesn't care" about something doesn't mean it is undeserving of rights. Not caring is not a good argument, dear. Obviously, other people DO care, and their belief that the unborn should not be terminated at the whim of a woman does not falter simply because a woman doesn't care about the unborn.


You mentioned earlier your irrational fear of pregnancy. Wouldn't you prefer not to live with this fear? Like Cutie-pie Sleepyhead says, wouldn't it be best if reversible sterilization were performed early on in life so that nobody would have a pregnancy they did not want?


Ahh, ideal worlds again. The morality of mandatory sterilization is also hotly debated.

Maybe these pro-life people hung up on abortion should worry about their own problems instead of someone else's.
If they care about some girl's unborn fetus so much, they they can find a way to remove it and incubate it themselves. In a way that doesn't involve her - Because she wants no part in it.

Why don't they find something to worry about? How about starving children who are already born? How about kids that were born to families that didn't want them, and who live miserable lives? Instead of being so preoccupied with other people's reproductive rights, they should mind their own business.

Actually, the fear doesn't bother me much at all. You see, I'm not too fond of sex with men to begin with... xP Don't miss it at all.

If people only "worried about their own problems instead of someone else's," the only people who would have fought against slavery would have been the slaves. The only people supporting gay marriage would be people who want to be able to marry someone of their own gender at some point in the future.

(ETA--very interesting how people should "mind their own business" but in the next breath you tell them to be concerned with other populations of individuals.)

You may not be aware, but it is possible to champion more than one cause at a time. You can be pro-life and support the homeless, too. You can be pro-life and donate to shelters for abused women and children. You can be pro-life and vegan. You can be pro-life and pro-gay-marriage. (Gasp!)

"Reproductive Rights" is as much a buzzphrase as "Right To Life." They just have different priorities.

[x Sarnath x]

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

x Sarnath x

But we can't use Plan B! Oh noes, it might be a baby already! It might have a soul!

xP I know, I know. It PREVENTS fertilization, and the egg hasn't even united with the sperm yet. But I thought it sounded funny.

Hilarious.

Quote:

The point is, it's very important that abortion must remain legal. It would be catastrophic if it was illegal again. It would put woman back on the road to being second-class citizens. It gives girls a sense of control over their lives and their sexuality. You know, gives them the confidence to feel like something more than "baby makers."

This is a slippery slope and absolutely false; for one rape laws, now known as sexual assault laws, were built around the female. Sexual decisions are all female-oriented even in modern society, and this is the case in many progressed countries as well, further females have almost always had the sexual power as we are the biological hunters for mates, they choose them instead of being chosen. Patriarchy itself does not change this, only the econ. of marriage, which is now dying in practice in most advanced populations, goes against this natural rule.

Quote:

I see nothing wrong with abortion, and even if I was interested in sex with men. my own life would be more important to me than the life of some stranger that has never even breathed before.

This is the morality that the entire concept floats on. It's about as thick as air insofar as solid reasoning. Essentially you've done two things:

1. Told me that there's nothing wrong in your viewpoint.

2. Told me to keep my viewpoint off your doorstep.

I don't know about you but if I wanted to it'd be a quick reversal.

Quote:

Abortion is a wonderful thing, and many women would agree.

Ad populum.

Quote:

We aren't living in the middle ages anymore.

Covert meaning; while not a fallacy it's considered dishonest, there's no reason that one has to be against progression in order to refuse this concept, or many others really.

Quote:

People have some choice over what happens to their own bodies now.

There is one thing you'd be right about in regards to the middle ages, women choose their sex partners now. That said, this in all totality is invalid, you can choose to have sex, and have safe sex, and if you were on contraceptives and the condom broke it's easy to show for so it's relatively easy to get an abortion if the intercession is necessary. On that count, the fact that people misuse and abuse everything should not be grounds for legalization.

It's legal because it's practical and girls are stupid. I hate to say such things about groups I am a part of but in my experience girls are stupid about these things. It's just that way.

Quote:

If you had an unsightly tumor growing on your face, wouldn't you want the option of having it cut off?

Thing is, unlike abortion, that is not born of your actions and can be dangerous; if it is not dangerous as a cosmetic procedure unlike abortion it is not done immediately and a certain number of consultations must be made. It's also a cosmetic procedure aimed at improving quality of life geared specifically towards the fact that you are simply an unfortunate recipient and nothing you could do could really prevent it.

Oh, and the fetus is not a disease.

Rape laws should be built around girls. Because they're the ones that have to deal with it. If a man gets raped, so what? Oh noes, he might have had a good time. If a girl gets raped, she has the chance of being knocked up by some b*****d that she never wants to see again.
The most important thing is freedom for people that are already alive. The unborn may impose on this. Quite simply, these things have already been taken care of by the law. Many things that are legal should be illegal, and many things that are illegal should be legal. But abortion should always be legal.

There are other things to crow about... Other things to worry about for these "pro-life" people. They care so much about the baby before it's born, but once it pops out, they don't give a ******** about it at all. Look at all the sad children who don't have enough to eat, and who don't get anything for Christmas. Look at the little kids with bruises who get sexually abused. Worry about that s**t. Who cares about these small, non-sentient little pinhead "humans" holled up inside someone's uterus? They don't know the difference, trust me. They don't miss life at all. So just don't worry about it.

[Nonesuch Solo]

x Sarnath x

Rape laws should be built around girls. Because they're the ones that have to deal with it. If a man gets raped, so what? Oh noes, he might have had a good time.

Holy ******** you did not just say that. What a misanthrope.

x Sarnath x

There are other things to crow about... Other things to worry about for these "pro-life" people. They care so much about the baby before it's born, but once it pops out, they don't give a ******** about it at all. Look at all the sad children who don't have enough to eat, and who don't get anything for Christmas. Look at the little kids with bruises who get sexually abused. Worry about that s**t.

Prove that lifers don't.

[I got bored one day]

0-gitaroo_man-0

Alright I did agree with some of your stuff against Sarnath so I take it back... I just dislike you a little bit :]

I'll take it.

Quote:

What I meant was that I think it's absurd to say that you are unconscious, granted your brain slows down and will not process as many functions but you still HAVE consciousness.

It's a Video!

Quote:

And actually no it used to be thought that your mind was in your heart, but this is like greek times. And now if you ask someone to point to their mind they'd generally point to their brain. It's not the concept of them being interwoven that's new it's the whether the mind actually exists at all is new.

Well, no. People are pretty sure the mind exists, just not as we plotted it out a long time ago, primarily because there are portions of our actions that cannot be explained via brain activity. Certain beliefs like hypochondria have no physical implications whatsoever, and the idea that the mind doesn't exist has been around for as long as the idea that it does; at first as a metaphyiscal thing ( peneal gland-ish ) it was thrown out but as time went on it re-emerged namely because if many things were simply physical brain activity drugs could cure it; I know it's complex and the brain is nowhere near 1% of study, but in theory that should work, you should be able to create a pill that cures trauma. Highly unlikely since it's also hard to play the what comes first game; even if you alleviated the symptoms of trauma there's no real way to cure it, much like addiction.

[x Sarnath x]

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

So what if "killing a baby" is being "selfish?" Don't do it yourself if it bothers you, Sorry, but not every girl wants to get down on her knees in the kitchen and hang up her career plans to give birth to a baby she doesn't want.

The problem with this argument is that many lifers believe that the unborn is the victim here. It's not like having bright pink hair or something where you can honestly say "Don't like it? Don't do it." This is an issue, to them, where there is an unborn victim of violence that does not have its own voice.

Seriously. That's like telling a PeTA member "Don't like the fur industry skinning critters alive? Don't buy furs!" as if they should ignore the fact that it still happens and is still just as wrong in their minds.



Isn't it more empowering to women to encourage proper use of preventative measures to help prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place than saying "Be afraid! Be very, very afraid! Your frail female bodies can easily become pregnant and this will damage them irreparably! Be AFRAID, women! But don't worry, we'll come to the rescue after you have to deal with the emotional trauma of the pregnancy scare, the terrifying period of wondering whether to tell your partner or not, and god forbid you're a minor and have to worry about your parents finding out, hoo-boy! Yes, we're more concerned that we can help you AFTER you go through peeing on a stick in secret and crying because you don't want a baby yet, you don't want to give up your life yet, how could this have happened, you were so careful (or were you careless and feel even more guilty?). We'll help you, us, the saviors of frail, pregnancy-prone womankind."

Yeah, but what if you simply don't care about the unborn? It's a tiny little thing that belongs to no one but you and your partner. If you reject it from your life, why is this an issue to other people? They can have it if they want. lol
You might say "But what if you're a murderer and you don't care about the person you killed?" It isn't the same. This baby could potentially ******** up a girl's life. And nature is inherently unfair. It's the woman that has to go through with it. It's the girl that has to ruin her body and sacrifice her dignity. And to be forced to have a baby when it's the last thing you want... I really can't think of anything more humiliating.

It's an unwanted guest in your own body. Something living in you, feeding off you. I know mothers are portrayed as being "caring" and "loving" and all that s**t by the movies/books, but what about women who simply don't want a baby and don't give a ********?

There's a simple solution... It's already legal, and it's going to stay that way. xP

Just because someone "doesn't care" about something doesn't mean it is undeserving of rights. Not caring is not a good argument, dear. Obviously, other people DO care, and their belief that the unborn should not be terminated at the whim of a woman does not falter simply because a woman doesn't care about the unborn.


You mentioned earlier your irrational fear of pregnancy. Wouldn't you prefer not to live with this fear? Like Cutie-pie Sleepyhead says, wouldn't it be best if reversible sterilization were performed early on in life so that nobody would have a pregnancy they did not want?


Ahh, ideal worlds again. The morality of mandatory sterilization is also hotly debated.

Maybe these pro-life people hung up on abortion should worry about their own problems instead of someone else's.
If they care about some girl's unborn fetus so much, they they can find a way to remove it and incubate it themselves. In a way that doesn't involve her - Because she wants no part in it.

Why don't they find something to worry about? How about starving children who are already born? How about kids that were born to families that didn't want them, and who live miserable lives? Instead of being so preoccupied with other people's reproductive rights, they should mind their own business.

Actually, the fear doesn't bother me much at all. You see, I'm not too fond of sex with men to begin with... xP Don't miss it at all.

If people only "worried about their own problems instead of someone else's," the only people who would have fought against slavery would have been the slaves. The only people supporting gay marriage would be people who want to be able to marry someone of their own gender at some point in the future.

(ETA--very interesting how people should "mind their own business" but in the next breath you tell them to be concerned with other populations of individuals.)

You may not be aware, but it is possible to champion more than one cause at a time. You can be pro-life and support the homeless, too. You can be pro-life and donate to shelters for abused women and children. You can be pro-life and vegan. You can be pro-life and pro-gay-marriage. (Gasp!)

"Reproductive Rights" is as much a buzzphrase as "Right To Life." They just have different priorities.

The only fair solution I see here is to give the fetus to someone that wants it. Not the developed baby - The fetus. Rip it out and put it in a little baggie, and deliver it to the pro-lifers with care. Show them how much of a human the thing really is. It's not a human. The bottom line is that it's a POTENTIAL human with the CHANCE at life. But it didn't make it. What a shame.
I would be willing to bet a lot of money on the fact that the fetus will never know that it had a chance at being alive. It won't have any regrets, or even any thoughts. It will probably suffer a lot less than the majority of people on Earth.

This is a personal thing, not something that should be discussed as a group with tons of government officials. This world is sexist enough as it is. And to strip women of such an important right is just a joke.

[Nonesuch Solo]

x Sarnath x

The only fair solution I see here is to give the fetus to someone that wants it. Not the developed baby - The fetus. Rip it out and put it in a little baggie, and deliver it to the pro-lifers with care. Show them how much of a human the thing really is. It's not a human. The bottom line is that it's a POTENTIAL human with the CHANCE at life. But it didn't make it. What a shame.
I would be willing to bet a lot of money on the fact that the fetus will never know that it had a chance at being alive. It won't have any regrets, or even any thoughts. It will probably suffer a lot less than the majority of people on Earth.

This is a personal thing, not something that should be discussed as a group with tons of government officials. This world is sexist enough as it is. And to strip women of such an important right is just a joke.

It is not a solution if the life is ended in the process. rolleyes

[I got bored one day]

x Sarnath x

Rape laws should be built around girls. Because they're the ones that have to deal with it. If a man gets raped, so what? Oh noes, he might have had a good time. If a girl gets raped, she has the chance of being knocked up by some b*****d that she never wants to see again.

So 1-night stands should be illegal as well, no? Same premises with consent.

Quote:

The most important thing is freedom for people that are already alive. The unborn may impose on this. Quite simply, these things have already been taken care of by the law. Many things that are legal should be illegal, and many things that are illegal should be legal. But abortion should always be legal.

I'm happy you explained why; I can't believe I never figured out this was self-evident! Reasoning is not necessary.

Quote:

There are other things to crow about... Other things to worry about for these "pro-life" people. They care so much about the baby before it's born, but once it pops out, they don't give a ******** about it at all.

Actually that's some people, and further this is a red-herring and defamation of character.

Quote:

Look at all the sad children who don't have enough to eat, and who don't get anything for Christmas. Look at the little kids with bruises who get sexually abused. Worry about that s**t. Who cares about these small, non-sentient little pinhead "humans" holled up inside someone's uterus?

Min-maxing.

Quote:

They don't know the difference, trust me. They don't miss life at all. So just don't worry about it.

Argument from Ignorance.

Again, if anything you said made sense I'd reconsider. Fortunately I'm in no danger of having to change my opinion anytime soon.

[x Sarnath x]

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

Rape laws should be built around girls. Because they're the ones that have to deal with it. If a man gets raped, so what? Oh noes, he might have had a good time.

Holy ******** you did not just say that. What a misanthrope.

x Sarnath x

There are other things to crow about... Other things to worry about for these "pro-life" people. They care so much about the baby before it's born, but once it pops out, they don't give a ******** about it at all. Look at all the sad children who don't have enough to eat, and who don't get anything for Christmas. Look at the little kids with bruises who get sexually abused. Worry about that s**t.

Prove that lifers don't.

They should spend less time standing in front of abortion clinics trying to give people anxiety attacks, and more time volunteering at a soup kitchen. Do something that actually matters.
The point is, people are hung up on all the wrong things. People waste energy on bitching at girls who really don't care about what they have to say. So a girl wants to have an abortion. I'm pretty sure she can make the choice on her own. She doesn't need these halfwits harassing her and telling her what to do with herself for the next 18 years.
If the pro-lifers pool all their money together and fork over the thousands of dollars needed to raise a child, maybe then they would have more than a say. But they just want to interject this ONE thing. They want to give this ONE opinion and make it dictate a girl's life, then just walk away and never see her again.
It's a joke. It's silly. There's just no discussion here.

[I got bored one day]

x Sarnath x

They should spend less time standing in front of abortion clinics trying to give people anxiety attacks, and more time volunteering at a soup kitchen. Do something that actually matters.

Can't they do both?

[x Sarnath x]

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

The only fair solution I see here is to give the fetus to someone that wants it. Not the developed baby - The fetus. Rip it out and put it in a little baggie, and deliver it to the pro-lifers with care. Show them how much of a human the thing really is. It's not a human. The bottom line is that it's a POTENTIAL human with the CHANCE at life. But it didn't make it. What a shame.
I would be willing to bet a lot of money on the fact that the fetus will never know that it had a chance at being alive. It won't have any regrets, or even any thoughts. It will probably suffer a lot less than the majority of people on Earth.

This is a personal thing, not something that should be discussed as a group with tons of government officials. This world is sexist enough as it is. And to strip women of such an important right is just a joke.

It is not a solution if the life is ended in the process. rolleyes

Yeah, but it isn't a "life" like what you're thinking. It's a brainless creature that knows nothing of the world. It knows only darkness and warmth. And it will return to darkness and never know the difference. Fact.

[Nonesuch Solo]

x Sarnath x

Nonesuch Solo

x Sarnath x

Rape laws should be built around girls. Because they're the ones that have to deal with it. If a man gets raped, so what? Oh noes, he might have had a good time.

Holy ******** you did not just say that. What a misanthrope.

x Sarnath x

There are other things to crow about... Other things to worry about for these "pro-life" people. They care so much about the baby before it's born, but once it pops out, they don't give a ******** about it at all. Look at all the sad children who don't have enough to eat, and who don't get anything for Christmas. Look at the little kids with bruises who get sexually abused. Worry about that s**t.

Prove that lifers don't.

They should spend less time standing in front of abortion clinics trying to give people anxiety attacks, and more time volunteering at a soup kitchen. Do something that actually matters.
The point is, people are hung up on all the wrong things. People waste energy on bitching at girls who really don't care about what they have to say. So a girl wants to have an abortion. I'm pretty sure she can make the choice on her own. She doesn't need these halfwits harassing her and telling her what to do with herself for the next 18 years.
If the pro-lifers pool all their money together and fork over the thousands of dollars needed to raise a child, maybe then they would have more than a say. But they just want to interject this ONE thing. They want to give this ONE opinion and make it dictate a girl's life, then just walk away and never see her again.
It's a joke. It's silly. There's just no discussion here.

I'm sorry, I'm still hung up on the fact that a male rape victim is just a joke to you. I don't know if I can continue trying to take you seriously after that.

Prove that pro-lifers devote more of their energy to standing outside the legal radius from an abortion clinic than they do helping already-born individuals. This is your claim: that lifers are just wasting their energy and ONLY CARE ABOUT THE FETUS. This is what YOU have to prove.