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todpury
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- Posted: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:16:15 +0000
Dust.And.Echoes.
I really just don't see why everyone feels the need to sit around, and dwell on how much they hate Stephanie Meyer. I see 2.5 billion people claiming they write better than her. Honestly, I think its jealousy. You're a fantastic writer, and she's a third grader...yet her stuff is published and has become a best seller.
Maybe I am a little jealous, as it's tough work to sell yourself to publishers. Not to mention I have a lack of confidence surrounding the fact that I really screwed the newspaper I was writing for and I'm afraid that if I put it on a writing resume then they'll check the reference and decide not to take the chance on me totally flaking out on them. I'm still afraid to say hi to my old editor, because I have issues with feeling disliked (don't we all). So yes, I'm jealous. If Meyer were to approach her publisher with all the fame and clout and best-sellers now and say she wanted to write a book about a group of black-face abortion clinic bombers they'd ask, "So when do you think you'll have it done by?" If I were to approach a magazine publisher with the one thing I have under my belt ending in a mess, there's a fantastic chance they'll say no. If you were interested in becoming a freelance writer, wouldn't you be jealous of (and here's an exaggeration) talentless hack who had all the clout and the career you dream of?
But one of the main reasons why I criticize her is because I'm very prone to be interested enough to do in depth critique. And she really has a lot of fuel for that. I mean, as I wrote about earlier, it has less to do with the style of her writing (which I do find kinda bad, but I've read far worse books by published authors), but more to do with how it would appear that she knows very little about telling a coherent story. The Twilight Saga reads as if she just sat down and wrote the story from start to end, without a plan or a clue how it would end or what would lead to that ending. Which is why she exhibits some pretty appalling storytelling. I could give you more examples, but I don't feel that's the appropriate way to steer this discussion. But even Dan Brown, who's writing style is possibly the worst I've ever read (and I feel that it's at least 6 times worse than Meyer's), knows how to plot his stories better than her, and it feels like he at least took the time to plan out a basic plot ark to his story before fleshing it out into a book.
I read books that are incredibly popular, even if I feel they will be bad (or if, a few pages in, I know they will), because I'm ridiculously intrigued by pop culture phenomena. It's why I read The DaVinci Code, Twilight, and Harry Potter. But of those three it's only the last book that demonstrated to me excellence in style and plotting.
Exoth XIII
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- Posted: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:20:19 +0000
todpury
I read books that are incredibly popular, even if I feel they will be bad (or if, a few pages in, I know they will), because I'm ridiculously intrigued by pop culture phenomena. It's why I read The DaVinci Code, Twilight, and Harry Potter. But of those three it's only the last book that demonstrated to me excellence in style and plotting.
The DaVinci Code, penny dreadful though it was, was still FAR better than twilight.
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- Posted: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:55:15 +0000
1. It doesn't follow the classification of vampires. Vampires don't sparkle. And they are supposed to have fangs, otherwise how are they supposed to get to the victim's blood? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some deviation from the norm, but we have a classification system for a reason. The issue here is not that vampires don't sparkle, it's that creatures that sparkle are not vampires. If we allow any creature to be included in the grouping of a species, we lose track of what that species is supposed to be. In this case, it's like the author was saying "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it must be a chicken because it lays eggs!"
2. The author's ego. No author worth their salt elevates themselves above the classics upon which their foundations were built. Meyer did that, and subsequently proceeded to insult a number of the greatest classics we've all heard of and come to know. She compared her works and characters to those of Rome and Juliet, Pride and Prejudice, and Anne of Green Gables, and proceeded to insult them all by proclaiming her own as superior. She also insulted the main heroine of Princess Bride, referring to her as an idiot (not at ALL like her precious Bella), but didn't seem to realize that the Princess Bride was a SATIRE. She toots her own horn much more than what's good for her, does not accept any negative criticism of her work, and makes no qualms about how she treats people--even her own husband, whom she has made it clear she would leave in a heartbeat if either Jacob or Edward ever came to her door.
3. Bella Swan is a Mary Sue. Everyone loves her. Everyone coddles her. She makes stupid mistakes that no one calls her on, and the few who DO are portrayed in a negative light, nevermind what good point they may have had. She has no real flaws, at least not any that are recognized within the context of the story in and of itself. Her ONE flaw in the whole of the series is that she's a klutz. Klutziness is a "cutie" flaw and one that Mary Sues share. It's not a real flaw, it's an excuse for her to need saving from the hero love interest.
4. Bella is shown as a "strong" character, but is nothing more than a selfish, self-centered, little brat and not even close to being the selfless, loving special snowflake everyone likes to put up on a pedestal in the series. Yes, I realize this comes off as a major opinion, but I'm backed by the simple fact that Bella really doesn't do much of anything for anyone in the series. She's the one always needing to be saved. She's the one everyone is tripping over themselves over. And she's the one using and manipulating others to get what she wants with no consideration as to their feelings. In fact, considering that we're seeing this from Bella's POV, we see clearly what she thinks of everyone, and to be honest, it's not that great. She disses and looks down on practically EVERYONE. She disses Charlie and won't call him "dad". She disses her non-important human friends--referring to the girls as "shallow Barbies" when she hasn't even tried to get to know them. She disses Eric, completely dismissing him without a second thought when he approaches her to help her find her way around, then immediately uses the better-looking Mike for that purpose and looks down on HIM as well, likening him unto a dog. Also, she whines near constantly, and of all things--she's whining about good things. Free vehicle--she whines. Kids at school like her--she whines. Edward saves her--she whines. And at no point does she actually do anything for herself to better any of the situations she feels worth whining about. She whines as she moves to Forks--it was HER decision, HER choice. Nobody forced her to go. She chose to play the martyr and move there despite it being QUITE clear she hates the place. She could have stayed with her mom for another year before getting her own place--she was only seventeen, she could take care of herself. She could have gone to boarding school somewhere sunny so she'd be out of their hair that way as well, but no! She has to go to Forks. And WHINE the entire time. She whines about having to cook and clean for Charlie--again, her choice. Charlie survived without her for several years, perfectly able to cook his own damned meals. He didn't send her to the kitchen to make his dinner, she did that on her own. She whines about going with Edward to the prom, but gives in because he tells her to, despite her being upset enough to cry over it. No one tied her up, forced her into the dress, shoved her to the car, or dragged her into the prom. She gave in when he told her not to be difficult and did all that herself, and whined. If she hated it THAT much, she should have done something. When Edward left, she went into a near catatonic state for 5 months, and whined because he was gone and none of her friends felt sorry for her. Given her past treatment of them, I'm not surprised there. But if she really loved him that much, she could have tried to track him down somehow. But she DIDN'T. She just whined and cried and equated herself to a zombie, then proceeded to get with Jacob and try to get herself killed in her numerous attempts to hear Edward's voice in her head, and did absolutely NOTHING useful. If any--ANY of these things bothered her so much, she should have worked something else out. But she didn't, choosing instead to whine and throw herself a pity party, waiting for others to come in and save her somehow. I don't know what Meyer envisions when she thinks of someone as being "strong", but in the real world, THIS is most certainly not it.
5. Bella obsesses over Edward. Yes. We get it. He's hot. How many times do we have to hear about his eyes? About a good third of each book details aspects of Edward. His eyes, his skin, and there was even a bit in there about his breath, which shouldn't even be possible since it was stated that the vampires don't breathe. This third also makes up 90% of what could be considered Edward's character development.
6. Abuse and anti-feminism is rampant. Meyer claims not to be anti-feminist, but rather anti-human. Her story says otherwise. We have the issues with Bella and her inability to do much of anything besides whine when it comes to things she doesn't like, as was pointed out earlier. It's not just a matter of her needing to be saved, it's how willingly she allowed Edward to direct her and how she did nothing when Edward was doing things that were all around considered abusive. Another example of this would be Sam and Emily. He rips her face off because she rejects him after he broke her cousin's heart. And much like many a victim of domestic violence, she stays with him anyway. And any excuses anyone can come up with sound disturbingly familiar to those given in REAL abusive situations. And everyone CONDONES this, like it's a special secret that they're all lucky to be in on. What the hell?
7. Child-Grooming and *****: Two major instances of this. The first evident "relationship" is Quil and Claire. A conversation with Quil in the book has him stating he has no intention of dating anyone else and plans to wait till Claire is of age so he can date her. She is all of two years old. He is helping to raise her with intent to bed her in the future. That is child-grooming. Then we have Jacob and Renesmee. Even ignoring how sickening it is for him to end up with the child of the girl he loved and his rival, there's the matter that Renesmee--while able to age rapidly--is still not even all of a year old.
8. The biggest issue I had in this series was that the only relationships that matter are those between lovers and those involving Bella. Friendships don't matter. Family doesn't matter--look at Leah and Emily. They were cousins, seeing each other as sisters. For being so close, it was rather easy for Emily to "give in" and take Leah's ex. Then to turn around and ask Leah to be a bridesmaid at her wedding when she only showed up in the first place to be a bridesmaid at Leah's? That's just adding insult to injury. And Bella? She didn't care that Jacob was her friend when she was using him to hear Edward's voice. She didn't care that she was alienating herself from her human friends. She didn't care that she was putting herself and Jessica in danger when she tried to confront the group of guys she thought were the ones to try and mug her before, and waved Jessica off as a b***h for being angry about it. Nothing but "true love" matters here.
9. Stalking and Abuse: Edward is the most obvious case of this, what with the following Bella around everyone, taking the engine out of her car, and watching her while she sleeps. I don't know what you'd do in your warped little fantasy, but when most normal people wake up to find some guy they barely know in their room watching them sleep, the guy's sexiness is the LAST thing on their minds. Then we have Jacob mouth-raping Bella in Eclipse, Sam ripping Emily's face off, and the afore-mentioned child-grooming and *****, which is also abuse.
10. Bella exhibits serious mental issues. She has co-dependency problems if her inability to function without Edward is any indication. She puts herself in dangerous situations just to hear a voice in her head. No sympathy or empathy for other people and does not mind using and manipulating others to get what she wants follows the DSM criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
11. Thesaurus-rape. We use that term because of the overuse of flowery words mostly used in the WRONG context. For a woman who majored in English, Meyer is quite poor at it.
12. First person POV is supposed to be a teenager? What teenager used the word "chagrin" to such a degree before this series came out? Bella does not talk like a teenager. She doesn't think like a teenager, either. Nor does anybody else, apparently.
13. Sacrifice. THERE WAS NONE. Bella never so much as gave a thought to any of her human friends or family in her decision to become a vampire. She didn't even get through the first book before getting at Edward to turn her. She did NOTHING to earn the happy ending she got. It was handed to her on a silver platter.
14. Meyer said she was "anti-human", but she's really just "anti-normal". There was no excuse for the needless bashing on the humans. Bella never liked any of her human friends to begin with. Nevermind that they were the ones to reach out to her first and try to help her. She considered Mike a dog and the girls as shallow Barbies before she even bothered getting to know them. And she turned down Eric's offer of help because he wasn't attractive. Then there was the attempt of Midnight Sun to make them all look bad so Bella can be a martyr. Sure, we could accept what he says their thoughts are, but it doesn't fit with their actions. Because I highly doubt that a shallow jealous b***h would try to stop you from doing something stupid, like say: confronting the guys who may or may not have been the ones to try and jump you in the previous book so you can hear your boyfriend's voice in your head. Yeah, how dare Jessica?
15. No plot: In a 500 page book, it should not be 400 pages in before we get to some actual semblance of a plot. And I mean a real plot. Not Edward and Bella's constant mood-swings.
16. No character flaws: None of the main characters (that Meyer portrayed as important) had any notable character flaws that existed within the context of the story. Any that we could point out (Bella's manipulative, Edward's a stalker, Jacob's a *****) were noted by the readers and NOT by anyone within the story itself.
17. Research: MEYER DIDN'T. She flat out STATED that she didn't, and it was something her story desperately needed.
18. Meyer fails science. Even ignoring the "vampires don't sparkle" complaint, they sparkle because their cell walls are crystalline. If their cells are like crystal, they should sparkle in ANY kind of light--not just the sun. Not to mention it should be impossible for them to move. The friction of the cells should set them aflame if they tried. Also, there's the issue with the chromosomes and Nessie. Lets review. 23-chromosome pairs in one parent + 25-chromosome pairs in the other parent DO NOT EQUAL 24 chromosome pairs in the offspring. This isn't math, it's science, and in science, an extra chromosome or two from one parent do not bond themselves. They causes genetic disorders, NOT all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death babies.
19. The all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death baby. I liked them when I first saw them back in ALIENS. Meyer's blatantly and completely broke her own canon, especially given that she flat out stated "no, the vamps CAN'T HAVE BABIES".
20. Twilight fails at applying real world logic in a story based in the real world. When Bella gets a paper cut, it apparently bleeds enough to drip down to the ground. This was a paper cut from wrapping paper! Most normal paper cuts only bleed a little--if at all, and most certainly not enough to create enough blood to match the scene Twilight depicts. If she's bleeding THAT badly, she either injured herself more severely, or she's got problems with blood clotting.
21. Meyer's logic messes up history. She said Rosalie's family was well off during the Great Depression because her dad was a banker. This was the GREAT DEPRESSION. All the banks were closing because there was no money! The bankers weren't well off either! In fact, they were the hardest hit!
22. Voyeurism. I'm with RPatz on this one. Twilight is really just Meyer's sex fantasy, starring a 17 year old version of herself. Reading it is like reading a pornographic novel. All we're reading, all we're HEARING is how great Edward is, mixed in with how much Bella's life completely sucks because most certainly NOBODY has it worse than her. I mean, having to move to a town she hates to live with a dad she doesn't like? It wasn't like she was being abused or neglected.
23. Seth, Meyer's brother. He's acting as the filter for Meyer's fanmail, making sure she only gets the raving reviews and absolutely NO criticism WHATSOEVER. Doesn't this strike anybody as odd?
24. The fans. After Twilight became the next big thing, all I've seen online was how much the fans LOVED Edward (or to a lesser extent, Jacob) and how they wanted one of their own. They were raving about how great it'd be to wake up and find him in their rooms watching them sleep. Meyer, you've set your gender back a hundred years.
25. No character development: None of the main characters grow or develop over the course of the story. And I mean as individuals in term of their personality, mentality, etc. And no, we do NOT mean "Bella became a vampire"! She may have become an all-perfect sparkly vampire at the end, but she was still the same annoying twit we met at the beginning. She just went from being "perfect among humans" to being "perfect among vampires".
26. Plot holes galore. One example is that Jasper goes nuts over Bella's paper cut. A PAPER CUT. After spending who knows how long in a high school setting, surrounded by plenty of kids getting all kinds of injuries, and it's one tiny paper cut from Bella that sets him off and forces Edward to leave. Be serious.
27. Twu Wuv: Nearly all the "true love" in this story was the "love at first sight" kind. Meyer referred to it as the all-encompassing, world-changing, overwhelming kind. And in this story, that was the only kind that ever worked out, which is interesting given the supposed "many types of love" speech Meyer gave. Because obviously relationships that require actual time and effort just can't compare to that one-look instant love.
28. "He's hot" + "She smells good" DOES NOT EQUAL TRUE LOVE.
29. When there is drama and hype and everyone preparing for an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death, I EXPECT there to be an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death. Failing to do so and claiming it was a "mental battle" when there WAS no "mental battle" to speak of is a cop-out.
30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
2. The author's ego. No author worth their salt elevates themselves above the classics upon which their foundations were built. Meyer did that, and subsequently proceeded to insult a number of the greatest classics we've all heard of and come to know. She compared her works and characters to those of Rome and Juliet, Pride and Prejudice, and Anne of Green Gables, and proceeded to insult them all by proclaiming her own as superior. She also insulted the main heroine of Princess Bride, referring to her as an idiot (not at ALL like her precious Bella), but didn't seem to realize that the Princess Bride was a SATIRE. She toots her own horn much more than what's good for her, does not accept any negative criticism of her work, and makes no qualms about how she treats people--even her own husband, whom she has made it clear she would leave in a heartbeat if either Jacob or Edward ever came to her door.
3. Bella Swan is a Mary Sue. Everyone loves her. Everyone coddles her. She makes stupid mistakes that no one calls her on, and the few who DO are portrayed in a negative light, nevermind what good point they may have had. She has no real flaws, at least not any that are recognized within the context of the story in and of itself. Her ONE flaw in the whole of the series is that she's a klutz. Klutziness is a "cutie" flaw and one that Mary Sues share. It's not a real flaw, it's an excuse for her to need saving from the hero love interest.
4. Bella is shown as a "strong" character, but is nothing more than a selfish, self-centered, little brat and not even close to being the selfless, loving special snowflake everyone likes to put up on a pedestal in the series. Yes, I realize this comes off as a major opinion, but I'm backed by the simple fact that Bella really doesn't do much of anything for anyone in the series. She's the one always needing to be saved. She's the one everyone is tripping over themselves over. And she's the one using and manipulating others to get what she wants with no consideration as to their feelings. In fact, considering that we're seeing this from Bella's POV, we see clearly what she thinks of everyone, and to be honest, it's not that great. She disses and looks down on practically EVERYONE. She disses Charlie and won't call him "dad". She disses her non-important human friends--referring to the girls as "shallow Barbies" when she hasn't even tried to get to know them. She disses Eric, completely dismissing him without a second thought when he approaches her to help her find her way around, then immediately uses the better-looking Mike for that purpose and looks down on HIM as well, likening him unto a dog. Also, she whines near constantly, and of all things--she's whining about good things. Free vehicle--she whines. Kids at school like her--she whines. Edward saves her--she whines. And at no point does she actually do anything for herself to better any of the situations she feels worth whining about. She whines as she moves to Forks--it was HER decision, HER choice. Nobody forced her to go. She chose to play the martyr and move there despite it being QUITE clear she hates the place. She could have stayed with her mom for another year before getting her own place--she was only seventeen, she could take care of herself. She could have gone to boarding school somewhere sunny so she'd be out of their hair that way as well, but no! She has to go to Forks. And WHINE the entire time. She whines about having to cook and clean for Charlie--again, her choice. Charlie survived without her for several years, perfectly able to cook his own damned meals. He didn't send her to the kitchen to make his dinner, she did that on her own. She whines about going with Edward to the prom, but gives in because he tells her to, despite her being upset enough to cry over it. No one tied her up, forced her into the dress, shoved her to the car, or dragged her into the prom. She gave in when he told her not to be difficult and did all that herself, and whined. If she hated it THAT much, she should have done something. When Edward left, she went into a near catatonic state for 5 months, and whined because he was gone and none of her friends felt sorry for her. Given her past treatment of them, I'm not surprised there. But if she really loved him that much, she could have tried to track him down somehow. But she DIDN'T. She just whined and cried and equated herself to a zombie, then proceeded to get with Jacob and try to get herself killed in her numerous attempts to hear Edward's voice in her head, and did absolutely NOTHING useful. If any--ANY of these things bothered her so much, she should have worked something else out. But she didn't, choosing instead to whine and throw herself a pity party, waiting for others to come in and save her somehow. I don't know what Meyer envisions when she thinks of someone as being "strong", but in the real world, THIS is most certainly not it.
5. Bella obsesses over Edward. Yes. We get it. He's hot. How many times do we have to hear about his eyes? About a good third of each book details aspects of Edward. His eyes, his skin, and there was even a bit in there about his breath, which shouldn't even be possible since it was stated that the vampires don't breathe. This third also makes up 90% of what could be considered Edward's character development.
6. Abuse and anti-feminism is rampant. Meyer claims not to be anti-feminist, but rather anti-human. Her story says otherwise. We have the issues with Bella and her inability to do much of anything besides whine when it comes to things she doesn't like, as was pointed out earlier. It's not just a matter of her needing to be saved, it's how willingly she allowed Edward to direct her and how she did nothing when Edward was doing things that were all around considered abusive. Another example of this would be Sam and Emily. He rips her face off because she rejects him after he broke her cousin's heart. And much like many a victim of domestic violence, she stays with him anyway. And any excuses anyone can come up with sound disturbingly familiar to those given in REAL abusive situations. And everyone CONDONES this, like it's a special secret that they're all lucky to be in on. What the hell?
7. Child-Grooming and *****: Two major instances of this. The first evident "relationship" is Quil and Claire. A conversation with Quil in the book has him stating he has no intention of dating anyone else and plans to wait till Claire is of age so he can date her. She is all of two years old. He is helping to raise her with intent to bed her in the future. That is child-grooming. Then we have Jacob and Renesmee. Even ignoring how sickening it is for him to end up with the child of the girl he loved and his rival, there's the matter that Renesmee--while able to age rapidly--is still not even all of a year old.
8. The biggest issue I had in this series was that the only relationships that matter are those between lovers and those involving Bella. Friendships don't matter. Family doesn't matter--look at Leah and Emily. They were cousins, seeing each other as sisters. For being so close, it was rather easy for Emily to "give in" and take Leah's ex. Then to turn around and ask Leah to be a bridesmaid at her wedding when she only showed up in the first place to be a bridesmaid at Leah's? That's just adding insult to injury. And Bella? She didn't care that Jacob was her friend when she was using him to hear Edward's voice. She didn't care that she was alienating herself from her human friends. She didn't care that she was putting herself and Jessica in danger when she tried to confront the group of guys she thought were the ones to try and mug her before, and waved Jessica off as a b***h for being angry about it. Nothing but "true love" matters here.
9. Stalking and Abuse: Edward is the most obvious case of this, what with the following Bella around everyone, taking the engine out of her car, and watching her while she sleeps. I don't know what you'd do in your warped little fantasy, but when most normal people wake up to find some guy they barely know in their room watching them sleep, the guy's sexiness is the LAST thing on their minds. Then we have Jacob mouth-raping Bella in Eclipse, Sam ripping Emily's face off, and the afore-mentioned child-grooming and *****, which is also abuse.
10. Bella exhibits serious mental issues. She has co-dependency problems if her inability to function without Edward is any indication. She puts herself in dangerous situations just to hear a voice in her head. No sympathy or empathy for other people and does not mind using and manipulating others to get what she wants follows the DSM criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
11. Thesaurus-rape. We use that term because of the overuse of flowery words mostly used in the WRONG context. For a woman who majored in English, Meyer is quite poor at it.
12. First person POV is supposed to be a teenager? What teenager used the word "chagrin" to such a degree before this series came out? Bella does not talk like a teenager. She doesn't think like a teenager, either. Nor does anybody else, apparently.
13. Sacrifice. THERE WAS NONE. Bella never so much as gave a thought to any of her human friends or family in her decision to become a vampire. She didn't even get through the first book before getting at Edward to turn her. She did NOTHING to earn the happy ending she got. It was handed to her on a silver platter.
14. Meyer said she was "anti-human", but she's really just "anti-normal". There was no excuse for the needless bashing on the humans. Bella never liked any of her human friends to begin with. Nevermind that they were the ones to reach out to her first and try to help her. She considered Mike a dog and the girls as shallow Barbies before she even bothered getting to know them. And she turned down Eric's offer of help because he wasn't attractive. Then there was the attempt of Midnight Sun to make them all look bad so Bella can be a martyr. Sure, we could accept what he says their thoughts are, but it doesn't fit with their actions. Because I highly doubt that a shallow jealous b***h would try to stop you from doing something stupid, like say: confronting the guys who may or may not have been the ones to try and jump you in the previous book so you can hear your boyfriend's voice in your head. Yeah, how dare Jessica?
15. No plot: In a 500 page book, it should not be 400 pages in before we get to some actual semblance of a plot. And I mean a real plot. Not Edward and Bella's constant mood-swings.
16. No character flaws: None of the main characters (that Meyer portrayed as important) had any notable character flaws that existed within the context of the story. Any that we could point out (Bella's manipulative, Edward's a stalker, Jacob's a *****) were noted by the readers and NOT by anyone within the story itself.
17. Research: MEYER DIDN'T. She flat out STATED that she didn't, and it was something her story desperately needed.
18. Meyer fails science. Even ignoring the "vampires don't sparkle" complaint, they sparkle because their cell walls are crystalline. If their cells are like crystal, they should sparkle in ANY kind of light--not just the sun. Not to mention it should be impossible for them to move. The friction of the cells should set them aflame if they tried. Also, there's the issue with the chromosomes and Nessie. Lets review. 23-chromosome pairs in one parent + 25-chromosome pairs in the other parent DO NOT EQUAL 24 chromosome pairs in the offspring. This isn't math, it's science, and in science, an extra chromosome or two from one parent do not bond themselves. They causes genetic disorders, NOT all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death babies.
19. The all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death baby. I liked them when I first saw them back in ALIENS. Meyer's blatantly and completely broke her own canon, especially given that she flat out stated "no, the vamps CAN'T HAVE BABIES".
20. Twilight fails at applying real world logic in a story based in the real world. When Bella gets a paper cut, it apparently bleeds enough to drip down to the ground. This was a paper cut from wrapping paper! Most normal paper cuts only bleed a little--if at all, and most certainly not enough to create enough blood to match the scene Twilight depicts. If she's bleeding THAT badly, she either injured herself more severely, or she's got problems with blood clotting.
21. Meyer's logic messes up history. She said Rosalie's family was well off during the Great Depression because her dad was a banker. This was the GREAT DEPRESSION. All the banks were closing because there was no money! The bankers weren't well off either! In fact, they were the hardest hit!
22. Voyeurism. I'm with RPatz on this one. Twilight is really just Meyer's sex fantasy, starring a 17 year old version of herself. Reading it is like reading a pornographic novel. All we're reading, all we're HEARING is how great Edward is, mixed in with how much Bella's life completely sucks because most certainly NOBODY has it worse than her. I mean, having to move to a town she hates to live with a dad she doesn't like? It wasn't like she was being abused or neglected.
23. Seth, Meyer's brother. He's acting as the filter for Meyer's fanmail, making sure she only gets the raving reviews and absolutely NO criticism WHATSOEVER. Doesn't this strike anybody as odd?
24. The fans. After Twilight became the next big thing, all I've seen online was how much the fans LOVED Edward (or to a lesser extent, Jacob) and how they wanted one of their own. They were raving about how great it'd be to wake up and find him in their rooms watching them sleep. Meyer, you've set your gender back a hundred years.
25. No character development: None of the main characters grow or develop over the course of the story. And I mean as individuals in term of their personality, mentality, etc. And no, we do NOT mean "Bella became a vampire"! She may have become an all-perfect sparkly vampire at the end, but she was still the same annoying twit we met at the beginning. She just went from being "perfect among humans" to being "perfect among vampires".
26. Plot holes galore. One example is that Jasper goes nuts over Bella's paper cut. A PAPER CUT. After spending who knows how long in a high school setting, surrounded by plenty of kids getting all kinds of injuries, and it's one tiny paper cut from Bella that sets him off and forces Edward to leave. Be serious.
27. Twu Wuv: Nearly all the "true love" in this story was the "love at first sight" kind. Meyer referred to it as the all-encompassing, world-changing, overwhelming kind. And in this story, that was the only kind that ever worked out, which is interesting given the supposed "many types of love" speech Meyer gave. Because obviously relationships that require actual time and effort just can't compare to that one-look instant love.
28. "He's hot" + "She smells good" DOES NOT EQUAL TRUE LOVE.
29. When there is drama and hype and everyone preparing for an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death, I EXPECT there to be an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death. Failing to do so and claiming it was a "mental battle" when there WAS no "mental battle" to speak of is a cop-out.
30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
irishcandie
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- Posted: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:02:40 +0000
Yoyo Illuser
Thank you Olya, that is really a good observation and one I haven't heard much of in being brought to light....I really enjoyed reading it, again...Thank you for you statement!^^
hmm i have never thought of it that way...hmm...i didnt like the books just because they got boring.i read all of them and they started to bore me... i re-read them a second time to try to understand the upsession some people have with it and all that jazz and i got completly bored
honestly i am a die hard harry potter fan...haha...i can read those books over and over and over and over and not get bored
haha
DJ-Anarchy
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- Posted: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:14:13 +0000
Nobody Famous
1. It doesn't follow the classification of vampires. Vampires don't sparkle. And they are supposed to have fangs, otherwise how are they supposed to get to the victim's blood? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some deviation from the norm, but we have a classification system for a reason. The issue here is not that vampires don't sparkle, it's that creatures that sparkle are not vampires. If we allow any creature to be included in the grouping of a species, we lose track of what that species is supposed to be. In this case, it's like the author was saying "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it must be a chicken because it lays eggs!"
2. The author's ego. No author worth their salt elevates themselves above the classics upon which their foundations were built. Meyer did that, and subsequently proceeded to insult a number of the greatest classics we've all heard of and come to know. She compared her works and characters to those of Rome and Juliet, Pride and Prejudice, and Anne of Green Gables, and proceeded to insult them all by proclaiming her own as superior. She also insulted the main heroine of Princess Bride, referring to her as an idiot (not at ALL like her precious Bella), but didn't seem to realize that the Princess Bride was a SATIRE. She toots her own horn much more than what's good for her, does not accept any negative criticism of her work, and makes no qualms about how she treats people--even her own husband, whom she has made it clear she would leave in a heartbeat if either Jacob or Edward ever came to her door.
3. Bella Swan is a Mary Sue. Everyone loves her. Everyone coddles her. She makes stupid mistakes that no one calls her on, and the few who DO are portrayed in a negative light, nevermind what good point they may have had. She has no real flaws, at least not any that are recognized within the context of the story in and of itself. Her ONE flaw in the whole of the series is that she's a klutz. Klutziness is a "cutie" flaw and one that Mary Sues share. It's not a real flaw, it's an excuse for her to need saving from the hero love interest.
4. Bella is shown as a "strong" character, but is nothing more than a selfish, self-centered, little brat and not even close to being the selfless, loving special snowflake everyone likes to put up on a pedestal in the series. Yes, I realize this comes off as a major opinion, but I'm backed by the simple fact that Bella really doesn't do much of anything for anyone in the series. She's the one always needing to be saved. She's the one everyone is tripping over themselves over. And she's the one using and manipulating others to get what she wants with no consideration as to their feelings. In fact, considering that we're seeing this from Bella's POV, we see clearly what she thinks of everyone, and to be honest, it's not that great. She disses and looks down on practically EVERYONE. She disses Charlie and won't call him "dad". She disses her non-important human friends--referring to the girls as "shallow Barbies" when she hasn't even tried to get to know them. She disses Eric, completely dismissing him without a second thought when he approaches her to help her find her way around, then immediately uses the better-looking Mike for that purpose and looks down on HIM as well, likening him unto a dog. Also, she whines near constantly, and of all things--she's whining about good things. Free vehicle--she whines. Kids at school like her--she whines. Edward saves her--she whines. And at no point does she actually do anything for herself to better any of the situations she feels worth whining about. She whines as she moves to Forks--it was HER decision, HER choice. Nobody forced her to go. She chose to play the martyr and move there despite it being QUITE clear she hates the place. She could have stayed with her mom for another year before getting her own place--she was only seventeen, she could take care of herself. She could have gone to boarding school somewhere sunny so she'd be out of their hair that way as well, but no! She has to go to Forks. And WHINE the entire time. She whines about having to cook and clean for Charlie--again, her choice. Charlie survived without her for several years, perfectly able to cook his own damned meals. He didn't send her to the kitchen to make his dinner, she did that on her own. She whines about going with Edward to the prom, but gives in because he tells her to, despite her being upset enough to cry over it. No one tied her up, forced her into the dress, shoved her to the car, or dragged her into the prom. She gave in when he told her not to be difficult and did all that herself, and whined. If she hated it THAT much, she should have done something. When Edward left, she went into a near catatonic state for 5 months, and whined because he was gone and none of her friends felt sorry for her. Given her past treatment of them, I'm not surprised there. But if she really loved him that much, she could have tried to track him down somehow. But she DIDN'T. She just whined and cried and equated herself to a zombie, then proceeded to get with Jacob and try to get herself killed in her numerous attempts to hear Edward's voice in her head, and did absolutely NOTHING useful. If any--ANY of these things bothered her so much, she should have worked something else out. But she didn't, choosing instead to whine and throw herself a pity party, waiting for others to come in and save her somehow. I don't know what Meyer envisions when she thinks of someone as being "strong", but in the real world, THIS is most certainly not it.
5. Bella obsesses over Edward. Yes. We get it. He's hot. How many times do we have to hear about his eyes? About a good third of each book details aspects of Edward. His eyes, his skin, and there was even a bit in there about his breath, which shouldn't even be possible since it was stated that the vampires don't breathe. This third also makes up 90% of what could be considered Edward's character development.
6. Abuse and anti-feminism is rampant. Meyer claims not to be anti-feminist, but rather anti-human. Her story says otherwise. We have the issues with Bella and her inability to do much of anything besides whine when it comes to things she doesn't like, as was pointed out earlier. It's not just a matter of her needing to be saved, it's how willingly she allowed Edward to direct her and how she did nothing when Edward was doing things that were all around considered abusive. Another example of this would be Sam and Emily. He rips her face off because she rejects him after he broke her cousin's heart. And much like many a victim of domestic violence, she stays with him anyway. And any excuses anyone can come up with sound disturbingly familiar to those given in REAL abusive situations. And everyone CONDONES this, like it's a special secret that they're all lucky to be in on. What the hell?
7. Child-Grooming and *****: Two major instances of this. The first evident "relationship" is Quil and Claire. A conversation with Quil in the book has him stating he has no intention of dating anyone else and plans to wait till Claire is of age so he can date her. She is all of two years old. He is helping to raise her with intent to bed her in the future. That is child-grooming. Then we have Jacob and Renesmee. Even ignoring how sickening it is for him to end up with the child of the girl he loved and his rival, there's the matter that Renesmee--while able to age rapidly--is still not even all of a year old.
8. The biggest issue I had in this series was that the only relationships that matter are those between lovers and those involving Bella. Friendships don't matter. Family doesn't matter--look at Leah and Emily. They were cousins, seeing each other as sisters. For being so close, it was rather easy for Emily to "give in" and take Leah's ex. Then to turn around and ask Leah to be a bridesmaid at her wedding when she only showed up in the first place to be a bridesmaid at Leah's? That's just adding insult to injury. And Bella? She didn't care that Jacob was her friend when she was using him to hear Edward's voice. She didn't care that she was alienating herself from her human friends. She didn't care that she was putting herself and Jessica in danger when she tried to confront the group of guys she thought were the ones to try and mug her before, and waved Jessica off as a b***h for being angry about it. Nothing but "true love" matters here.
9. Stalking and Abuse: Edward is the most obvious case of this, what with the following Bella around everyone, taking the engine out of her car, and watching her while she sleeps. I don't know what you'd do in your warped little fantasy, but when most normal people wake up to find some guy they barely know in their room watching them sleep, the guy's sexiness is the LAST thing on their minds. Then we have Jacob mouth-raping Bella in Eclipse, Sam ripping Emily's face off, and the afore-mentioned child-grooming and *****, which is also abuse.
10. Bella exhibits serious mental issues. She has co-dependency problems if her inability to function without Edward is any indication. She puts herself in dangerous situations just to hear a voice in her head. No sympathy or empathy for other people and does not mind using and manipulating others to get what she wants follows the DSM criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
11. Thesaurus-rape. We use that term because of the overuse of flowery words mostly used in the WRONG context. For a woman who majored in English, Meyer is quite poor at it.
12. First person POV is supposed to be a teenager? What teenager used the word "chagrin" to such a degree before this series came out? Bella does not talk like a teenager. She doesn't think like a teenager, either. Nor does anybody else, apparently.
13. Sacrifice. THERE WAS NONE. Bella never so much as gave a thought to any of her human friends or family in her decision to become a vampire. She didn't even get through the first book before getting at Edward to turn her. She did NOTHING to earn the happy ending she got. It was handed to her on a silver platter.
14. Meyer said she was "anti-human", but she's really just "anti-normal". There was no excuse for the needless bashing on the humans. Bella never liked any of her human friends to begin with. Nevermind that they were the ones to reach out to her first and try to help her. She considered Mike a dog and the girls as shallow Barbies before she even bothered getting to know them. And she turned down Eric's offer of help because he wasn't attractive. Then there was the attempt of Midnight Sun to make them all look bad so Bella can be a martyr. Sure, we could accept what he says their thoughts are, but it doesn't fit with their actions. Because I highly doubt that a shallow jealous b***h would try to stop you from doing something stupid, like say: confronting the guys who may or may not have been the ones to try and jump you in the previous book so you can hear your boyfriend's voice in your head. Yeah, how dare Jessica?
15. No plot: In a 500 page book, it should not be 400 pages in before we get to some actual semblance of a plot. And I mean a real plot. Not Edward and Bella's constant mood-swings.
16. No character flaws: None of the main characters (that Meyer portrayed as important) had any notable character flaws that existed within the context of the story. Any that we could point out (Bella's manipulative, Edward's a stalker, Jacob's a *****) were noted by the readers and NOT by anyone within the story itself.
17. Research: MEYER DIDN'T. She flat out STATED that she didn't, and it was something her story desperately needed.
18. Meyer fails science. Even ignoring the "vampires don't sparkle" complaint, they sparkle because their cell walls are crystalline. If their cells are like crystal, they should sparkle in ANY kind of light--not just the sun. Not to mention it should be impossible for them to move. The friction of the cells should set them aflame if they tried. Also, there's the issue with the chromosomes and Nessie. Lets review. 23-chromosome pairs in one parent + 25-chromosome pairs in the other parent DO NOT EQUAL 24 chromosome pairs in the offspring. This isn't math, it's science, and in science, an extra chromosome or two from one parent do not bond themselves. They causes genetic disorders, NOT all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death babies.
19. The all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death baby. I liked them when I first saw them back in ALIENS. Meyer's blatantly and completely broke her own canon, especially given that she flat out stated "no, the vamps CAN'T HAVE BABIES".
20. Twilight fails at applying real world logic in a story based in the real world. When Bella gets a paper cut, it apparently bleeds enough to drip down to the ground. This was a paper cut from wrapping paper! Most normal paper cuts only bleed a little--if at all, and most certainly not enough to create enough blood to match the scene Twilight depicts. If she's bleeding THAT badly, she either injured herself more severely, or she's got problems with blood clotting.
21. Meyer's logic messes up history. She said Rosalie's family was well off during the Great Depression because her dad was a banker. This was the GREAT DEPRESSION. All the banks were closing because there was no money! The bankers weren't well off either! In fact, they were the hardest hit!
22. Voyeurism. I'm with RPatz on this one. Twilight is really just Meyer's sex fantasy, starring a 17 year old version of herself. Reading it is like reading a pornographic novel. All we're reading, all we're HEARING is how great Edward is, mixed in with how much Bella's life completely sucks because most certainly NOBODY has it worse than her. I mean, having to move to a town she hates to live with a dad she doesn't like? It wasn't like she was being abused or neglected.
23. Seth, Meyer's brother. He's acting as the filter for Meyer's fanmail, making sure she only gets the raving reviews and absolutely NO criticism WHATSOEVER. Doesn't this strike anybody as odd?
24. The fans. After Twilight became the next big thing, all I've seen online was how much the fans LOVED Edward (or to a lesser extent, Jacob) and how they wanted one of their own. They were raving about how great it'd be to wake up and find him in their rooms watching them sleep. Meyer, you've set your gender back a hundred years.
25. No character development: None of the main characters grow or develop over the course of the story. And I mean as individuals in term of their personality, mentality, etc. And no, we do NOT mean "Bella became a vampire"! She may have become an all-perfect sparkly vampire at the end, but she was still the same annoying twit we met at the beginning. She just went from being "perfect among humans" to being "perfect among vampires".
26. Plot holes galore. One example is that Jasper goes nuts over Bella's paper cut. A PAPER CUT. After spending who knows how long in a high school setting, surrounded by plenty of kids getting all kinds of injuries, and it's one tiny paper cut from Bella that sets him off and forces Edward to leave. Be serious.
27. Twu Wuv: Nearly all the "true love" in this story was the "love at first sight" kind. Meyer referred to it as the all-encompassing, world-changing, overwhelming kind. And in this story, that was the only kind that ever worked out, which is interesting given the supposed "many types of love" speech Meyer gave. Because obviously relationships that require actual time and effort just can't compare to that one-look instant love.
28. "He's hot" + "She smells good" DOES NOT EQUAL TRUE LOVE.
29. When there is drama and hype and everyone preparing for an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death, I EXPECT there to be an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death. Failing to do so and claiming it was a "mental battle" when there WAS no "mental battle" to speak of is a cop-out.
30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
2. The author's ego. No author worth their salt elevates themselves above the classics upon which their foundations were built. Meyer did that, and subsequently proceeded to insult a number of the greatest classics we've all heard of and come to know. She compared her works and characters to those of Rome and Juliet, Pride and Prejudice, and Anne of Green Gables, and proceeded to insult them all by proclaiming her own as superior. She also insulted the main heroine of Princess Bride, referring to her as an idiot (not at ALL like her precious Bella), but didn't seem to realize that the Princess Bride was a SATIRE. She toots her own horn much more than what's good for her, does not accept any negative criticism of her work, and makes no qualms about how she treats people--even her own husband, whom she has made it clear she would leave in a heartbeat if either Jacob or Edward ever came to her door.
3. Bella Swan is a Mary Sue. Everyone loves her. Everyone coddles her. She makes stupid mistakes that no one calls her on, and the few who DO are portrayed in a negative light, nevermind what good point they may have had. She has no real flaws, at least not any that are recognized within the context of the story in and of itself. Her ONE flaw in the whole of the series is that she's a klutz. Klutziness is a "cutie" flaw and one that Mary Sues share. It's not a real flaw, it's an excuse for her to need saving from the hero love interest.
4. Bella is shown as a "strong" character, but is nothing more than a selfish, self-centered, little brat and not even close to being the selfless, loving special snowflake everyone likes to put up on a pedestal in the series. Yes, I realize this comes off as a major opinion, but I'm backed by the simple fact that Bella really doesn't do much of anything for anyone in the series. She's the one always needing to be saved. She's the one everyone is tripping over themselves over. And she's the one using and manipulating others to get what she wants with no consideration as to their feelings. In fact, considering that we're seeing this from Bella's POV, we see clearly what she thinks of everyone, and to be honest, it's not that great. She disses and looks down on practically EVERYONE. She disses Charlie and won't call him "dad". She disses her non-important human friends--referring to the girls as "shallow Barbies" when she hasn't even tried to get to know them. She disses Eric, completely dismissing him without a second thought when he approaches her to help her find her way around, then immediately uses the better-looking Mike for that purpose and looks down on HIM as well, likening him unto a dog. Also, she whines near constantly, and of all things--she's whining about good things. Free vehicle--she whines. Kids at school like her--she whines. Edward saves her--she whines. And at no point does she actually do anything for herself to better any of the situations she feels worth whining about. She whines as she moves to Forks--it was HER decision, HER choice. Nobody forced her to go. She chose to play the martyr and move there despite it being QUITE clear she hates the place. She could have stayed with her mom for another year before getting her own place--she was only seventeen, she could take care of herself. She could have gone to boarding school somewhere sunny so she'd be out of their hair that way as well, but no! She has to go to Forks. And WHINE the entire time. She whines about having to cook and clean for Charlie--again, her choice. Charlie survived without her for several years, perfectly able to cook his own damned meals. He didn't send her to the kitchen to make his dinner, she did that on her own. She whines about going with Edward to the prom, but gives in because he tells her to, despite her being upset enough to cry over it. No one tied her up, forced her into the dress, shoved her to the car, or dragged her into the prom. She gave in when he told her not to be difficult and did all that herself, and whined. If she hated it THAT much, she should have done something. When Edward left, she went into a near catatonic state for 5 months, and whined because he was gone and none of her friends felt sorry for her. Given her past treatment of them, I'm not surprised there. But if she really loved him that much, she could have tried to track him down somehow. But she DIDN'T. She just whined and cried and equated herself to a zombie, then proceeded to get with Jacob and try to get herself killed in her numerous attempts to hear Edward's voice in her head, and did absolutely NOTHING useful. If any--ANY of these things bothered her so much, she should have worked something else out. But she didn't, choosing instead to whine and throw herself a pity party, waiting for others to come in and save her somehow. I don't know what Meyer envisions when she thinks of someone as being "strong", but in the real world, THIS is most certainly not it.
5. Bella obsesses over Edward. Yes. We get it. He's hot. How many times do we have to hear about his eyes? About a good third of each book details aspects of Edward. His eyes, his skin, and there was even a bit in there about his breath, which shouldn't even be possible since it was stated that the vampires don't breathe. This third also makes up 90% of what could be considered Edward's character development.
6. Abuse and anti-feminism is rampant. Meyer claims not to be anti-feminist, but rather anti-human. Her story says otherwise. We have the issues with Bella and her inability to do much of anything besides whine when it comes to things she doesn't like, as was pointed out earlier. It's not just a matter of her needing to be saved, it's how willingly she allowed Edward to direct her and how she did nothing when Edward was doing things that were all around considered abusive. Another example of this would be Sam and Emily. He rips her face off because she rejects him after he broke her cousin's heart. And much like many a victim of domestic violence, she stays with him anyway. And any excuses anyone can come up with sound disturbingly familiar to those given in REAL abusive situations. And everyone CONDONES this, like it's a special secret that they're all lucky to be in on. What the hell?
7. Child-Grooming and *****: Two major instances of this. The first evident "relationship" is Quil and Claire. A conversation with Quil in the book has him stating he has no intention of dating anyone else and plans to wait till Claire is of age so he can date her. She is all of two years old. He is helping to raise her with intent to bed her in the future. That is child-grooming. Then we have Jacob and Renesmee. Even ignoring how sickening it is for him to end up with the child of the girl he loved and his rival, there's the matter that Renesmee--while able to age rapidly--is still not even all of a year old.
8. The biggest issue I had in this series was that the only relationships that matter are those between lovers and those involving Bella. Friendships don't matter. Family doesn't matter--look at Leah and Emily. They were cousins, seeing each other as sisters. For being so close, it was rather easy for Emily to "give in" and take Leah's ex. Then to turn around and ask Leah to be a bridesmaid at her wedding when she only showed up in the first place to be a bridesmaid at Leah's? That's just adding insult to injury. And Bella? She didn't care that Jacob was her friend when she was using him to hear Edward's voice. She didn't care that she was alienating herself from her human friends. She didn't care that she was putting herself and Jessica in danger when she tried to confront the group of guys she thought were the ones to try and mug her before, and waved Jessica off as a b***h for being angry about it. Nothing but "true love" matters here.
9. Stalking and Abuse: Edward is the most obvious case of this, what with the following Bella around everyone, taking the engine out of her car, and watching her while she sleeps. I don't know what you'd do in your warped little fantasy, but when most normal people wake up to find some guy they barely know in their room watching them sleep, the guy's sexiness is the LAST thing on their minds. Then we have Jacob mouth-raping Bella in Eclipse, Sam ripping Emily's face off, and the afore-mentioned child-grooming and *****, which is also abuse.
10. Bella exhibits serious mental issues. She has co-dependency problems if her inability to function without Edward is any indication. She puts herself in dangerous situations just to hear a voice in her head. No sympathy or empathy for other people and does not mind using and manipulating others to get what she wants follows the DSM criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
11. Thesaurus-rape. We use that term because of the overuse of flowery words mostly used in the WRONG context. For a woman who majored in English, Meyer is quite poor at it.
12. First person POV is supposed to be a teenager? What teenager used the word "chagrin" to such a degree before this series came out? Bella does not talk like a teenager. She doesn't think like a teenager, either. Nor does anybody else, apparently.
13. Sacrifice. THERE WAS NONE. Bella never so much as gave a thought to any of her human friends or family in her decision to become a vampire. She didn't even get through the first book before getting at Edward to turn her. She did NOTHING to earn the happy ending she got. It was handed to her on a silver platter.
14. Meyer said she was "anti-human", but she's really just "anti-normal". There was no excuse for the needless bashing on the humans. Bella never liked any of her human friends to begin with. Nevermind that they were the ones to reach out to her first and try to help her. She considered Mike a dog and the girls as shallow Barbies before she even bothered getting to know them. And she turned down Eric's offer of help because he wasn't attractive. Then there was the attempt of Midnight Sun to make them all look bad so Bella can be a martyr. Sure, we could accept what he says their thoughts are, but it doesn't fit with their actions. Because I highly doubt that a shallow jealous b***h would try to stop you from doing something stupid, like say: confronting the guys who may or may not have been the ones to try and jump you in the previous book so you can hear your boyfriend's voice in your head. Yeah, how dare Jessica?
15. No plot: In a 500 page book, it should not be 400 pages in before we get to some actual semblance of a plot. And I mean a real plot. Not Edward and Bella's constant mood-swings.
16. No character flaws: None of the main characters (that Meyer portrayed as important) had any notable character flaws that existed within the context of the story. Any that we could point out (Bella's manipulative, Edward's a stalker, Jacob's a *****) were noted by the readers and NOT by anyone within the story itself.
17. Research: MEYER DIDN'T. She flat out STATED that she didn't, and it was something her story desperately needed.
18. Meyer fails science. Even ignoring the "vampires don't sparkle" complaint, they sparkle because their cell walls are crystalline. If their cells are like crystal, they should sparkle in ANY kind of light--not just the sun. Not to mention it should be impossible for them to move. The friction of the cells should set them aflame if they tried. Also, there's the issue with the chromosomes and Nessie. Lets review. 23-chromosome pairs in one parent + 25-chromosome pairs in the other parent DO NOT EQUAL 24 chromosome pairs in the offspring. This isn't math, it's science, and in science, an extra chromosome or two from one parent do not bond themselves. They causes genetic disorders, NOT all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death babies.
19. The all perfect, spine-breaking, inner organ-eating death baby. I liked them when I first saw them back in ALIENS. Meyer's blatantly and completely broke her own canon, especially given that she flat out stated "no, the vamps CAN'T HAVE BABIES".
20. Twilight fails at applying real world logic in a story based in the real world. When Bella gets a paper cut, it apparently bleeds enough to drip down to the ground. This was a paper cut from wrapping paper! Most normal paper cuts only bleed a little--if at all, and most certainly not enough to create enough blood to match the scene Twilight depicts. If she's bleeding THAT badly, she either injured herself more severely, or she's got problems with blood clotting.
21. Meyer's logic messes up history. She said Rosalie's family was well off during the Great Depression because her dad was a banker. This was the GREAT DEPRESSION. All the banks were closing because there was no money! The bankers weren't well off either! In fact, they were the hardest hit!
22. Voyeurism. I'm with RPatz on this one. Twilight is really just Meyer's sex fantasy, starring a 17 year old version of herself. Reading it is like reading a pornographic novel. All we're reading, all we're HEARING is how great Edward is, mixed in with how much Bella's life completely sucks because most certainly NOBODY has it worse than her. I mean, having to move to a town she hates to live with a dad she doesn't like? It wasn't like she was being abused or neglected.
23. Seth, Meyer's brother. He's acting as the filter for Meyer's fanmail, making sure she only gets the raving reviews and absolutely NO criticism WHATSOEVER. Doesn't this strike anybody as odd?
24. The fans. After Twilight became the next big thing, all I've seen online was how much the fans LOVED Edward (or to a lesser extent, Jacob) and how they wanted one of their own. They were raving about how great it'd be to wake up and find him in their rooms watching them sleep. Meyer, you've set your gender back a hundred years.
25. No character development: None of the main characters grow or develop over the course of the story. And I mean as individuals in term of their personality, mentality, etc. And no, we do NOT mean "Bella became a vampire"! She may have become an all-perfect sparkly vampire at the end, but she was still the same annoying twit we met at the beginning. She just went from being "perfect among humans" to being "perfect among vampires".
26. Plot holes galore. One example is that Jasper goes nuts over Bella's paper cut. A PAPER CUT. After spending who knows how long in a high school setting, surrounded by plenty of kids getting all kinds of injuries, and it's one tiny paper cut from Bella that sets him off and forces Edward to leave. Be serious.
27. Twu Wuv: Nearly all the "true love" in this story was the "love at first sight" kind. Meyer referred to it as the all-encompassing, world-changing, overwhelming kind. And in this story, that was the only kind that ever worked out, which is interesting given the supposed "many types of love" speech Meyer gave. Because obviously relationships that require actual time and effort just can't compare to that one-look instant love.
28. "He's hot" + "She smells good" DOES NOT EQUAL TRUE LOVE.
29. When there is drama and hype and everyone preparing for an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death, I EXPECT there to be an epic end-all, be-all final battle to the death. Failing to do so and claiming it was a "mental battle" when there WAS no "mental battle" to speak of is a cop-out.
30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
Truth, truth, and more truth. Let's see a Twitard try to argue against that s**t...
Blackrose_Knight
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- Posted: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:39:01 +0000
Nobody Famous
1. It doesn't follow the classification of vampires. Vampires don't sparkle. And they are supposed to have fangs, otherwise how are they supposed to get to the victim's blood? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some deviation from the norm, but we have a classification system for a reason. The issue here is not that vampires don't sparkle, it's that creatures that sparkle are not vampires. If we allow any creature to be included in the grouping of a species, we lose track of what that species is supposed to be. In this case, it's like the author was saying "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it must be a chicken because it lays eggs!"
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30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
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30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
True, Twilight is a pretty bad book, but I have read worse.
And as always, its just a book.
Vixianna
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- Posted: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:25:38 +0000
Blackrose_Knight
Nobody Famous
1. It doesn't follow the classification of vampires. Vampires don't sparkle. And they are supposed to have fangs, otherwise how are they supposed to get to the victim's blood? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some deviation from the norm, but we have a classification system for a reason. The issue here is not that vampires don't sparkle, it's that creatures that sparkle are not vampires. If we allow any creature to be included in the grouping of a species, we lose track of what that species is supposed to be. In this case, it's like the author was saying "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it must be a chicken because it lays eggs!"
-cut for very large post of doom -
30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
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30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
True, Twilight is a pretty bad book, but I have read worse.
And as always, its just a book.
Removed what the bible doesn't condone, and there is the difference my friend.
Shokushu
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- Posted: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:24:45 +0000
Oh, I've disliked the soft core vampornography since long before twilight.
If you ever had a glimpse at the way the little preteens formed their roleplay characters in those parts of Gaia you know that they subconsciously realize that there's nothing special about themselves so instead of becoming interesting they go for birthright saying that they're some improper fraction mix of supernatural things and human.
When they do that as vampires the emphasis is angst. Preteen angst is annoying enough but because they aren't even very good at fantasy they've needed an excuse to keep behaving that way despite the super powers they've granted themselves being more than enough to quickly dig them out of the life they despise, but again, they're not good at fantasy so they swap out the "oh God I'm an unstoppable monster defiling the bodies of innocent people around me like some kind of drug addict" with their usual angst.
Well, most of the Twilight crowd is actually better about that. It is actually fantasy and they play the role at whatever quality.
Yet even so what they're doing is magically switching themselves to a mix of human and something fantastic in order to become fantastic. The view that humanity is what was holding them back still gets on my nerves. It's been clear from the earliest literature that living like that was a horrifying existence but the vampires of Twilight really embody the characters people have been crafting for years.
The biggest drawback of being a vampire was that you had to be a vampire but hey, I'm not going to suck the blood out of people's veins to sustain myself and I'm not going to burn in the sun. Immortality, superhuman strength, and maybe a weak use of an accent from earlier days? I like all of that so I'll keep it.
This pretty much sums up the way they do it.
Now, the literature is pretty clear about how becoming a vampire alters the caliber of a person: it doesn't. Some hillbilly with a habit of livestock coitus is going to be a pretty shitty vampire and probably get a steak through his heart as soon as he gets in arms range of someone who decided to stand up against the local vampires.
To say that someone with bold vision and powerful character turns into Dracula when they become a vampire would be to miss the point. Dracula was Dracula before the grip of undeath tried to take him but the thing is he was already powerful. The demonic animal behavior couldn't claim him and erase who he used to be like an ordinary person and as a powerfully nasty person he handled the addiction problem like anyone with a large region's wealth at his fingertips: drowning himself in what he was addicted to.
Yet for all the force of who a high caliber vampire is someone with better character comes along to dispatch them.
But hey, who gives a s**t about the dark nature of humans that feed their desires? We were pretending to be vampires because we were horny but unable to feed that desire so none of that applies to what we want vampires to be.
Sort of like how furries pretend to be animals while they have sex but don't want to say they have weird sex kinks.
If you ever had a glimpse at the way the little preteens formed their roleplay characters in those parts of Gaia you know that they subconsciously realize that there's nothing special about themselves so instead of becoming interesting they go for birthright saying that they're some improper fraction mix of supernatural things and human.
When they do that as vampires the emphasis is angst. Preteen angst is annoying enough but because they aren't even very good at fantasy they've needed an excuse to keep behaving that way despite the super powers they've granted themselves being more than enough to quickly dig them out of the life they despise, but again, they're not good at fantasy so they swap out the "oh God I'm an unstoppable monster defiling the bodies of innocent people around me like some kind of drug addict" with their usual angst.
Well, most of the Twilight crowd is actually better about that. It is actually fantasy and they play the role at whatever quality.
Yet even so what they're doing is magically switching themselves to a mix of human and something fantastic in order to become fantastic. The view that humanity is what was holding them back still gets on my nerves. It's been clear from the earliest literature that living like that was a horrifying existence but the vampires of Twilight really embody the characters people have been crafting for years.
The biggest drawback of being a vampire was that you had to be a vampire but hey, I'm not going to suck the blood out of people's veins to sustain myself and I'm not going to burn in the sun. Immortality, superhuman strength, and maybe a weak use of an accent from earlier days? I like all of that so I'll keep it.
This pretty much sums up the way they do it.
Now, the literature is pretty clear about how becoming a vampire alters the caliber of a person: it doesn't. Some hillbilly with a habit of livestock coitus is going to be a pretty shitty vampire and probably get a steak through his heart as soon as he gets in arms range of someone who decided to stand up against the local vampires.
To say that someone with bold vision and powerful character turns into Dracula when they become a vampire would be to miss the point. Dracula was Dracula before the grip of undeath tried to take him but the thing is he was already powerful. The demonic animal behavior couldn't claim him and erase who he used to be like an ordinary person and as a powerfully nasty person he handled the addiction problem like anyone with a large region's wealth at his fingertips: drowning himself in what he was addicted to.
Yet for all the force of who a high caliber vampire is someone with better character comes along to dispatch them.
But hey, who gives a s**t about the dark nature of humans that feed their desires? We were pretending to be vampires because we were horny but unable to feed that desire so none of that applies to what we want vampires to be.
Sort of like how furries pretend to be animals while they have sex but don't want to say they have weird sex kinks.
Princess Z-M
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- Posted: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:26:12 +0000
Dan cook is better than trying to read, watch, or listen to that junk.
/post.
/post.
Exoth XIII
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- Posted: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:36:13 +0000
Vixianna
Blackrose_Knight
Nobody Famous
1. It doesn't follow the classification of vampires. Vampires don't sparkle. And they are supposed to have fangs, otherwise how are they supposed to get to the victim's blood? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some deviation from the norm, but we have a classification system for a reason. The issue here is not that vampires don't sparkle, it's that creatures that sparkle are not vampires. If we allow any creature to be included in the grouping of a species, we lose track of what that species is supposed to be. In this case, it's like the author was saying "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it must be a chicken because it lays eggs!"
-cut for very large post of doom -
30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
-cut for very large post of doom -
30. Claiming "It's fantasy" or "It's my story, I'll do what I want" when people point out problems with the logic in the series, is ALSO a cop-out, and a cheesy one at that. Because fantasy or not, it takes place in a town based on a real town in current day. As such, current logic and reasoning DOES APPLY.
True, Twilight is a pretty bad book, but I have read worse.
And as always, its just a book.
Removed what the bible doesn't condone, and there is the difference my friend.
The bible condones incest, murder, and rape, provided they're in a certain context.
It's ok to do incest if no other form of sex is convenient. Murder is condoned, as long as the victim doesn't obey certain rules. Rape is also ok, as long as you give her time to grieve for the husband you just slaughtered.
stari_maga
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- Posted: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:43:08 +0000
Twilight...
It could have been okay, except it dosen't make sense. Edward wants Bella's blood more than anything, right? than how come he does all that fancy stuff at the end of the first book? how come It's Jasper who almost attacks her in the second one?
Bella is a wimp. she never fights. what she does in eclipse is stupid, breaking dawn important but weak
The books are just boring. the plot is overly simple, each book could fit on a standard plot chart, though they are several hundred pages long. they drag on.
It could have been okay, except it dosen't make sense. Edward wants Bella's blood more than anything, right? than how come he does all that fancy stuff at the end of the first book? how come It's Jasper who almost attacks her in the second one?
Bella is a wimp. she never fights. what she does in eclipse is stupid, breaking dawn important but weak
The books are just boring. the plot is overly simple, each book could fit on a standard plot chart, though they are several hundred pages long. they drag on.
Qinne
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- Posted: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:45:10 +0000
We get it. Smutty literature. But Twilight is ment to appeal to a certain age group and it serves its purpose well.
It's kinda like how Blue's Clues or Dora the Explorer is targeted towards a certain age group.
It's kinda like how Blue's Clues or Dora the Explorer is targeted towards a certain age group.
Akira Yoshizawa
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- Posted: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:14:09 +0000
Death and Misery
Res Ipsa Loquitor
Why do you care so much about some books?
QFT
Akira Yoshizawa
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- Posted: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:16:55 +0000
Qinne
We get it. Smutty literature. But Twilight is ment to appeal to a certain age group and it serves its purpose well.
It's kinda like how Blue's Clues or Dora the Explorer is targeted towards a certain age group.
It's kinda like how Blue's Clues or Dora the Explorer is targeted towards a certain age group.
Maybe I'm weird that way, but if I had been a teenager when the Twilight books came out... I would've run away on the opposite direction of Borders... No sane, real, healthy, not shallow teenager would really like these books outside of extremely light literature and something to kills a few hours of boredom with.
