A discussion for those that dislike Twilight

[Yoyo Illuser]

This is not about creating haters, or for people that actually enjoy the books/movies to come in and attempt to rant as they will of their love for the series, but rather a discussion for all those that actually just do not like the books as a whole. I'm currently working on a long project pertaining to the entire series and am in need of information, opinions, anything that people would like to say in regards to Twilight...

Facts as to why you dislike it, from any stand point of either being the characters, to the way the books are written, what you've seen of the fans behavior, your own viewpoint of the creator and much more. Already I've been doing research behind the books, and the events that have been caused of these books, as well as events behind the fans. It is shocking information to swallow, and yet I would still love to hear more, from all of you.

I would love for this to be as intelligent as possible, without degrading add ins or comments that stem into long, hate building arguments. So please, discuss with me as you will, all you would like, or rather, all you would dislike, about Twilight.

*Any sources or information you have found that you would like to post would be most kind

[Iorveth]

There are plenty of threads based around not liking Twilight. You might want to go look in one of those instead of posting up a new one.

[Mobilize For War]

Why do you care so much about some books?

[Olya]

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Alright, I'll help out. In my opinion, Twilight could have been a good book. COULD have, but complete and total lack of believability had turned it into idiocy beyond redemption. It's not the sparkling vampires or the complete lack of killing either. THAT I may force my imagination to stomach and my sanity to believe in. It's the characters (most importantly Bella) who have made my imagination throw up and my sanity run for cover.

What would any sane person think of a pale young man with fangs who skips school on sunny days? I can honestly say that not many people will think he is a vampire. Pale and avoids sun? A mild sunlight allergy. Fangs? He must be one of those freaks who like to pretend they're vampires and pay a fortune to have their teeth altered. Drinks blood? Same explanation as the fangs, although could be a psychopath. Oh, he's claiming to be an actually vampire? Scratch "could be" - he is a psychopath! Now, off we go to warn all our friends and daddy, the cop.

That is the thought and action pattern of a normal person.

This is Bella: "Vampire...." *swoon*

At least half of that book should have been about her slamming door in his face and him trying desperately to prove to her that he is not crazy and not a serial killer. Then it needed a good villain to at first help him prove all that, then disappear long enough to create an actual window of opportunity for internal dilemmas, unresolved sexual tension, and the whole sense of a forbidden relationship; and then he must come back so that the characters may kill him, through which they solve all their moral dilemmas and live happily ever after.

And yes, ALL of it should be done in one book. ONE!

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

[Yoyo Illuser]

Thank you Olya, that is really a good observation and one I haven't heard much of in being brought to light....I really enjoyed reading it, again...Thank you for you statement!^^

[I got bored one day]

Res Ipsa Loquitor

Why do you care so much about some books?

Books are the foundation of Tomorrow.

[Yoyo Illuser]

I certainly agree on that

[Dion Necurat]

Res Ipsa Loquitor

Why do you care so much about some books?

Just to piss you off.

[Marris]

Olya

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Alright, I'll help out. In my opinion, Twilight could have been a good book. COULD have, but complete and total lack of believability had turned it into idiocy beyond redemption. It's not the sparkling vampires or the complete lack of killing either. THAT I may force my imagination to stomach and my sanity to believe in. It's the characters (most importantly Bella) who have made my imagination throw up and my sanity run for cover.

What would any sane person think of a pale young man with fangs who skips school on sunny days? I can honestly say that not many people will think he is a vampire. Pale and avoids sun? A mild sunlight allergy. Fangs? He must be one of those freaks who like to pretend they're vampires and pay a fortune to have their teeth altered. Drinks blood? Same explanation as the fangs, although could be a psychopath. Oh, he's claiming to be an actually vampire? Scratch "could be" - he is a psychopath! Now, off we go to warn all our friends and daddy, the cop.

That is the thought and action pattern of a normal person.

This is Bella: "Vampire...." *swoon*

At least half of that book should have been about her slamming door in his face and him trying desperately to prove to her that he is not crazy and not a serial killer. Then it needed a good villain to at first help him prove all that, then disappear long enough to create an actual window of opportunity for internal dilemmas, unresolved sexual tension, and the whole sense of a forbidden relationship; and then he must come back so that the characters may kill him, through which they solve all their moral dilemmas and live happily ever after.

And yes, ALL of it should be done in one book. ONE!

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

This.

I'd also like to add the fact that the two main characters had absolutely no chemistry after the first book. It was like Meyer painted out her ideal people and instead of giving them real flaws and any form of character development she was convinced she had created the prefect characters and that would sustain the story through the next 3 books.

The amount of times Meyer pints out how flawless and Adonis-like Edward is kind of tells you she had built him up in her own head as the perfect man. But the 'perfect man' isn't a good leading man in a story. Much less when Bella gets turned and then you have her suddenly becoming a beautiful goddess flying through the trees in a cocktail dress. When the story became about Mr. Perfect, Mr. Perfects Wife and their Perfect child it just sort of killed the last book and cheapened the whole series.

And they all lived happily ever after as beautiful sparkly vampires.

[Vixianna]

I'd like to say that the construction of the characters themselves is my main problem with the books. Not necessarily the descriptions of them, though that too, but the lack thereof of any personality AND the Sueness. I don't know if you are familiar with the fanfiction circuit, but characters for whom there is little personality, with inane beauty, talents, and described in detail ad nausem, AND gets there way/is liked by everyone important. It's a Sue. Edward is a Gary Stu, Mary Sue's handsome, rugged, and "Dangerous" brother. While Bella is Mary. A Vapid Pretty girl with no personality that has every man within the tri-state area swooning over her. Gary's like Edward pretend to be "dangerous" to be more attractive, but still get super powers and are "super awesome" and always described as ridiculously "attractive" with the personality of cardboard. Mary's trip through everything, are seen as "endearing", described over and over again as "attractive", and have the personality of sandpaper.

Don't believe me? Stick either of them threw a litmus test for Sues available all over the internet and they come back off the charts.

Why is that a bad thing? Because it effects believability, and the ability for the reader to get into the character. Well any non-teeny bopper reader. Mary and Gary wrap the story around themselves, even though they aren't all that interesting to begin with. It's one of the many reasons why Twilight is bad. I wrote more balanced characters when I was 13, and I mean that seriously. Anyone wants to call me on that, give me a topic, character, and 15 minutes and I'll give you paragraph, you can judge for yourself.

Her grammar isn't all the great either, but that's for another day folks.

[Olya]

Marris

Olya

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Alright, I'll help out. In my opinion, Twilight could have been a good book. COULD have, but complete and total lack of believability had turned it into idiocy beyond redemption. It's not the sparkling vampires or the complete lack of killing either. THAT I may force my imagination to stomach and my sanity to believe in. It's the characters (most importantly Bella) who have made my imagination throw up and my sanity run for cover.

What would any sane person think of a pale young man with fangs who skips school on sunny days? I can honestly say that not many people will think he is a vampire. Pale and avoids sun? A mild sunlight allergy. Fangs? He must be one of those freaks who like to pretend they're vampires and pay a fortune to have their teeth altered. Drinks blood? Same explanation as the fangs, although could be a psychopath. Oh, he's claiming to be an actually vampire? Scratch "could be" - he is a psychopath! Now, off we go to warn all our friends and daddy, the cop.

That is the thought and action pattern of a normal person.

This is Bella: "Vampire...." *swoon*

At least half of that book should have been about her slamming door in his face and him trying desperately to prove to her that he is not crazy and not a serial killer. Then it needed a good villain to at first help him prove all that, then disappear long enough to create an actual window of opportunity for internal dilemmas, unresolved sexual tension, and the whole sense of a forbidden relationship; and then he must come back so that the characters may kill him, through which they solve all their moral dilemmas and live happily ever after.

And yes, ALL of it should be done in one book. ONE!

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

This.

I'd also like to add the fact that the two main characters had absolutely no chemistry after the first book. It was like Meyer painted out her ideal people and instead of giving them real flaws and any form of character development she was convinced she had created the prefect characters and that would sustain the story through the next 3 books.

The amount of times Meyer pints out how flawless and Adonis-like Edward is kind of tells you she had built him up in her own head as the perfect man. But the 'perfect man' isn't a good leading man in a story. Much less when Bella gets turned and then you have her suddenly becoming a beautiful goddess flying through the trees in a cocktail dress. When the story became about Mr. Perfect, Mr. Perfects Wife and their Perfect child it just sort of killed the last book and cheapened the whole series.

And they all lived happily ever after as beautiful sparkly vampires.

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

I've never gotten past the first book. The ending of it just killed me. What kind of a man in love would not leap at any opportunity of having an eternal life with the woman he loves? Clearly, it must be SOOOO much better to stay by her side and watch her suffer as she ages and dies slowly while he remains gorgeous and young forever.

Also, I have no idea where people found sexual tension in that book. Edward tried NOTHING! There were no heated and mean-spirited conversations between the two, no teasing, no attempts on his part to rip her clothes off, no rejection on her part, no stolen kisses - none of what makes corny romance books worth reading. She didn't even try to resist him and make him think he's really working for it. What kind of a woman is she!?

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

[Marris]

Olya

Marris

Olya

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Alright, I'll help out. In my opinion, Twilight could have been a good book. COULD have, but complete and total lack of believability had turned it into idiocy beyond redemption. It's not the sparkling vampires or the complete lack of killing either. THAT I may force my imagination to stomach and my sanity to believe in. It's the characters (most importantly Bella) who have made my imagination throw up and my sanity run for cover.

What would any sane person think of a pale young man with fangs who skips school on sunny days? I can honestly say that not many people will think he is a vampire. Pale and avoids sun? A mild sunlight allergy. Fangs? He must be one of those freaks who like to pretend they're vampires and pay a fortune to have their teeth altered. Drinks blood? Same explanation as the fangs, although could be a psychopath. Oh, he's claiming to be an actually vampire? Scratch "could be" - he is a psychopath! Now, off we go to warn all our friends and daddy, the cop.

That is the thought and action pattern of a normal person.

This is Bella: "Vampire...." *swoon*

At least half of that book should have been about her slamming door in his face and him trying desperately to prove to her that he is not crazy and not a serial killer. Then it needed a good villain to at first help him prove all that, then disappear long enough to create an actual window of opportunity for internal dilemmas, unresolved sexual tension, and the whole sense of a forbidden relationship; and then he must come back so that the characters may kill him, through which they solve all their moral dilemmas and live happily ever after.

And yes, ALL of it should be done in one book. ONE!

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

This.

I'd also like to add the fact that the two main characters had absolutely no chemistry after the first book. It was like Meyer painted out her ideal people and instead of giving them real flaws and any form of character development she was convinced she had created the prefect characters and that would sustain the story through the next 3 books.

The amount of times Meyer pints out how flawless and Adonis-like Edward is kind of tells you she had built him up in her own head as the perfect man. But the 'perfect man' isn't a good leading man in a story. Much less when Bella gets turned and then you have her suddenly becoming a beautiful goddess flying through the trees in a cocktail dress. When the story became about Mr. Perfect, Mr. Perfects Wife and their Perfect child it just sort of killed the last book and cheapened the whole series.

And they all lived happily ever after as beautiful sparkly vampires.

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

I've never gotten past the first book. The ending of it just killed me. What kind of a man in love would not leap at any opportunity of having an eternal life with the woman he loves? Clearly, it must be SOOOO much better to stay by her side and watch her suffer as she ages and dies slowly while he remains gorgeous and young forever.

Also, I have no idea where people found sexual tension in that book. Edward tried NOTHING! There were no heated and mean-spirited conversations between the two, no teasing, no attempts on his part to rip her clothes off, no rejection on her part, no stolen kisses - none of what makes corny romance books worth reading. She didn't even try to resist him and make him think he's really working for it. What kind of a woman is she!?

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

Wow, if you disliked the first book then definitely stay away from the rest. The first book was the 'better' book of the 4.
After the first Bella becomes absolutely pathetic in her love for Edward to the point where she, quite literally, can't function without him (I'm not a feminist but even I was pretty turned off by that). Edward turns from a nice guy into a possessive jerk of a boyfriend. Any sort of a realistic or interesting relationship goes out the window from there. Edward spends the next 2 or so books trying to convince Bella to marry him while Bella tries to convince Edward to have sex with her because she doesn't want to be 'that kind of girl', apparently sex is great but marriage would tarnish her self respect. (makes. no. sense.)
And then in the fourth book everything 'falls into place' and by that I means Bella becomes Perfect and gets everything she wants in the end without so much as having to breaking a fingernail.

[Vixianna]

Olya

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

I've never gotten past the first book. The ending of it just killed me. What kind of a man in love would not leap at any opportunity of having an eternal life with the woman he loves? Clearly, it must be SOOOO much better to stay by her side and watch her suffer as she ages and dies slowly while he remains gorgeous and young forever.

Also, I have no idea where people found sexual tension in that book. Edward tried NOTHING! There were no heated and mean-spirited conversations between the two, no teasing, no attempts on his part to rip her clothes off, no rejection on her part, no stolen kisses - none of what makes corny romance books worth reading. She didn't even try to resist him and make him think he's really working for it. What kind of a woman is she!?

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

Ever read Tuck Everlasting? Jesse, like Edward, is immortal. Unlike Edward, Jesse has the character development and personality to pull off a pained remembrance of mortality, and the hope that his love would know the joys of a life not stagnate. They drained the "immortality" spring at the end of the book, because of developments in the forest it was in, and the story is told through the eyes of Winnie, now an old woman remembering the joy of that summer. Great book.

If Meyer could have pulled off that pain and tortured decision brought out of knowledge of the immortality Bella sought, it would have been epic. She unfortunately couldn't. Which is why the ending was so poor.

[I got bored one day]

What's interesting to me is many stories follow the plot of this book. Beauty & The Beast comes to mind, Disney version, where Belle is perfect in most every way and overcomes just about the unimaginable obstacles to be with the Beast who happens to be running out of time in life etc. Most stories, especially in the romance or drama genre, are closer to ridiculous than reality.

[Olya]

Marris

Olya

Marris

Olya

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

Alright, I'll help out. In my opinion, Twilight could have been a good book. COULD have, but complete and total lack of believability had turned it into idiocy beyond redemption. It's not the sparkling vampires or the complete lack of killing either. THAT I may force my imagination to stomach and my sanity to believe in. It's the characters (most importantly Bella) who have made my imagination throw up and my sanity run for cover.

What would any sane person think of a pale young man with fangs who skips school on sunny days? I can honestly say that not many people will think he is a vampire. Pale and avoids sun? A mild sunlight allergy. Fangs? He must be one of those freaks who like to pretend they're vampires and pay a fortune to have their teeth altered. Drinks blood? Same explanation as the fangs, although could be a psychopath. Oh, he's claiming to be an actually vampire? Scratch "could be" - he is a psychopath! Now, off we go to warn all our friends and daddy, the cop.

That is the thought and action pattern of a normal person.

This is Bella: "Vampire...." *swoon*

At least half of that book should have been about her slamming door in his face and him trying desperately to prove to her that he is not crazy and not a serial killer. Then it needed a good villain to at first help him prove all that, then disappear long enough to create an actual window of opportunity for internal dilemmas, unresolved sexual tension, and the whole sense of a forbidden relationship; and then he must come back so that the characters may kill him, through which they solve all their moral dilemmas and live happily ever after.

And yes, ALL of it should be done in one book. ONE!

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

This.

I'd also like to add the fact that the two main characters had absolutely no chemistry after the first book. It was like Meyer painted out her ideal people and instead of giving them real flaws and any form of character development she was convinced she had created the prefect characters and that would sustain the story through the next 3 books.

The amount of times Meyer pints out how flawless and Adonis-like Edward is kind of tells you she had built him up in her own head as the perfect man. But the 'perfect man' isn't a good leading man in a story. Much less when Bella gets turned and then you have her suddenly becoming a beautiful goddess flying through the trees in a cocktail dress. When the story became about Mr. Perfect, Mr. Perfects Wife and their Perfect child it just sort of killed the last book and cheapened the whole series.

And they all lived happily ever after as beautiful sparkly vampires.

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

I've never gotten past the first book. The ending of it just killed me. What kind of a man in love would not leap at any opportunity of having an eternal life with the woman he loves? Clearly, it must be SOOOO much better to stay by her side and watch her suffer as she ages and dies slowly while he remains gorgeous and young forever.

Also, I have no idea where people found sexual tension in that book. Edward tried NOTHING! There were no heated and mean-spirited conversations between the two, no teasing, no attempts on his part to rip her clothes off, no rejection on her part, no stolen kisses - none of what makes corny romance books worth reading. She didn't even try to resist him and make him think he's really working for it. What kind of a woman is she!?

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.

Wow, if you disliked the first book then definitely stay away from the rest. The first book was the 'better' book of the 4.
After the first Bella becomes absolutely pathetic in her love for Edward to the point where she, quite literally, can't function without him (I'm not a feminist but even I was pretty turned off by that). Edward turns from a nice guy into a possessive jerk of a boyfriend. Any sort of a realistic or interesting relationship goes out the window from there. Edward spends the next 2 or so books trying to convince Bella to marry him while Bella tries to convince Edward to have sex with her because she doesn't want to be 'that kind of girl', apparently sex is great but marriage would tarnish her self respect. (makes. no. sense.)
And then in the fourth book everything 'falls into place' and by that I means Bella becomes Perfect and gets everything she wants in the end without so much as having to breaking a fingernail.

We all meandered through our schooling haphazard; so, to God be thanks,

I take it that this was Meyer's sad attempt at feminism? I much prefer "prove to me that you're the prince charming and THEN I'll marry you." xd

From what I hear, their sex was very Sue-like as well.

...it's easy, without too much fooling, to pass for cultured in our ranks.