VoijaRisa
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- Posted: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:45:33 +0000
Introduction
It has been a long standing tradition of Creationists on Gaia and in general to assert that evolution and creation are both "just theories" and as such deserve equal footing in the classroom.
Evolutionists maintain that this is an abuse of the term "theory" given that it equivocates a scientific theory (which is a well tested hypothesis proven beyond any reasonable doubt) with a layman's theory (which is a guess).
Since we Evolutionists have aptly demonstrated that there is indeed conclusive scientific evidence for evolution, we challenge those that support the notion that Creation is backed by honest scientific evidence to engage us in a wager.
The Challenge
The requirement is as follows:
Provide valid, scientific evidence for Creationism. For an introduction to what constitutes scientific evidence, see this thread.
There is much confusion of terms such as Creationism, Deism, Theism, Theistic Evolution, etc..., so we must take great care to not overlap in terminology and include paradigms that are outside the scope of what is meant by Creationism.
As such, for the purposes of this thread, Creationism will be defined such that our universe and life therein was intentionally created by an supernatural, intelligent power and that evidence exists for it, coupled with a rejection of some, or all of evolution and/or the Big Bang theory. (See FAQ for a full explanation and definition.) Note, you are not being asked to disprove evolution or the Big Bang, but merely to present scientific evidence for Creationism. While it is encouraged that you show how your positive case better fits the evidence than evolution or the Big Bang (whichever is applicable), it is not required.
Keep in mind that while you're not being asked to refute evolution/Big Bang, this does not mean that the position for which you argue (Creationism) can accomodate it (ie, god directed evolution) as this would be theistic evolution.
Requirements
In order to successfully meet the challenge, you must present positive scientific evidence to show the Creationism hypothesis to be valid. Namely, you must provide scientific evidence for a supernatural creator creating either the universe, life therein, or even directly intervening with life.
To do this you must,
1. Present the positive hypothesis, showing how it is falsifiable.
2. Present experiments and tests that are statistically significant and methodologically pertinent that relate directly to your hypothesis.
3. Discuss how the evidence supports your hypothesis.
Remember to define any key terms used to prevent confusion.
You may not use logical fallacies (especially negative arguments).
If you are able to do this, you will be given several Gaia items and gold, totaling up to over 11,000,000 gold in value.
Judging
Those that have donated items to the reward pool will be the judges. Unanimous consent need not be gained, but rather a majority vote. Should the judges not respond within 3 days, their position will be considered an abstention and will not be counted.
Gold/Items that have been wagered thus far:
Katherine1 - Fire Whip (approx 73k) + Winged Anklets (approx 1.5m)
VoijaRisa - 50k gold + Chyaku Norisu scarf (approx 250k)
A Lost Iguana - Golden Laurels (approx 2.5m) & Ninja Band (approx 2.2m)
Redem - Ancient Katana (approx 450k)
Worm of Morgoth - Entire account (30k + items)
Jaaten Syric - Horns of the Demon (approx 2.7m)
mitoguard - Coco Kitty (approx 320k) and a Guitar of Demona (approx 300k)
Shokushu Ninja Band (approx 2.2m)
+____________________________________
Total Worth: ~11 million gold!
Of course, being that this is a wager, that means you have to put something up too. Given that most of us putting in items have been arguing evolution a long time, we can definitively say that the odds are extremely low you'll succeed. Thus you get the odds in your favor.
For each entry you submit, you must pay 5,000 gold prior to submitting your entry. Additionally, this fee is meant to discourage people who would spam arguments without thinking them through. If you win, this, plus all the items previously mentioned will be paid back to you. If you fail to present a valid argument, that gold will be evenly distributed amongst those that have donated the prizes. But seriously, you stand to make >1,800 times back what you wagered.
Entering
In order to enter, simply send the coordinator, VoijaRisa, a PM stating your intent to enter with a link to the post (in this thread) with your argument.
Arguments not to use
- Irreducible Complexity
- The Second Law of Thermodynamics
It has been a long standing tradition of Creationists on Gaia and in general to assert that evolution and creation are both "just theories" and as such deserve equal footing in the classroom.
Evolutionists maintain that this is an abuse of the term "theory" given that it equivocates a scientific theory (which is a well tested hypothesis proven beyond any reasonable doubt) with a layman's theory (which is a guess).
Since we Evolutionists have aptly demonstrated that there is indeed conclusive scientific evidence for evolution, we challenge those that support the notion that Creation is backed by honest scientific evidence to engage us in a wager.
The Challenge
The requirement is as follows:
Provide valid, scientific evidence for Creationism. For an introduction to what constitutes scientific evidence, see this thread.
There is much confusion of terms such as Creationism, Deism, Theism, Theistic Evolution, etc..., so we must take great care to not overlap in terminology and include paradigms that are outside the scope of what is meant by Creationism.
As such, for the purposes of this thread, Creationism will be defined such that our universe and life therein was intentionally created by an supernatural, intelligent power and that evidence exists for it, coupled with a rejection of some, or all of evolution and/or the Big Bang theory. (See FAQ for a full explanation and definition.) Note, you are not being asked to disprove evolution or the Big Bang, but merely to present scientific evidence for Creationism. While it is encouraged that you show how your positive case better fits the evidence than evolution or the Big Bang (whichever is applicable), it is not required.
Keep in mind that while you're not being asked to refute evolution/Big Bang, this does not mean that the position for which you argue (Creationism) can accomodate it (ie, god directed evolution) as this would be theistic evolution.
Requirements
In order to successfully meet the challenge, you must present positive scientific evidence to show the Creationism hypothesis to be valid. Namely, you must provide scientific evidence for a supernatural creator creating either the universe, life therein, or even directly intervening with life.
To do this you must,
1. Present the positive hypothesis, showing how it is falsifiable.
2. Present experiments and tests that are statistically significant and methodologically pertinent that relate directly to your hypothesis.
3. Discuss how the evidence supports your hypothesis.
Remember to define any key terms used to prevent confusion.
You may not use logical fallacies (especially negative arguments).
If you are able to do this, you will be given several Gaia items and gold, totaling up to over 11,000,000 gold in value.
Judging
Those that have donated items to the reward pool will be the judges. Unanimous consent need not be gained, but rather a majority vote. Should the judges not respond within 3 days, their position will be considered an abstention and will not be counted.
Gold/Items that have been wagered thus far:
Katherine1 - Fire Whip (approx 73k) + Winged Anklets (approx 1.5m)
VoijaRisa - 50k gold + Chyaku Norisu scarf (approx 250k)
A Lost Iguana - Golden Laurels (approx 2.5m) & Ninja Band (approx 2.2m)
Redem - Ancient Katana (approx 450k)
Worm of Morgoth - Entire account (30k + items)
Jaaten Syric - Horns of the Demon (approx 2.7m)
mitoguard - Coco Kitty (approx 320k) and a Guitar of Demona (approx 300k)
Shokushu Ninja Band (approx 2.2m)
+____________________________________
Total Worth: ~11 million gold!
Of course, being that this is a wager, that means you have to put something up too. Given that most of us putting in items have been arguing evolution a long time, we can definitively say that the odds are extremely low you'll succeed. Thus you get the odds in your favor.
For each entry you submit, you must pay 5,000 gold prior to submitting your entry. Additionally, this fee is meant to discourage people who would spam arguments without thinking them through. If you win, this, plus all the items previously mentioned will be paid back to you. If you fail to present a valid argument, that gold will be evenly distributed amongst those that have donated the prizes. But seriously, you stand to make >1,800 times back what you wagered.
Entering
In order to enter, simply send the coordinator, VoijaRisa, a PM stating your intent to enter with a link to the post (in this thread) with your argument.
Arguments not to use
- Irreducible Complexity
- The Second Law of Thermodynamics
