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Introduction
It has been a long standing tradition of Creationists on Gaia and in general to assert that evolution and creation are both "just theories" and as such deserve equal footing in the classroom.

Evolutionists maintain that this is an abuse of the term "theory" given that it equivocates a scientific theory (which is a well tested hypothesis proven beyond any reasonable doubt) with a layman's theory (which is a guess).

Since we Evolutionists have aptly demonstrated that there is indeed conclusive scientific evidence for evolution, we challenge those that support the notion that Creation is backed by honest scientific evidence to engage us in a wager.

The Challenge
The requirement is as follows:

Provide valid, scientific evidence for Creationism.

To be as generous as possible, we will define "Creationism" as loosely as can be reasonably allowed.

As such, for the purposes of this thread, Creationism will be defined such that our universe (or life therein) was intentionally created by an higher, intelligent power and that evidence exists for it, coupled with a rejection of some, or all of evolution. (See FAQ for a full explanation and definition.)

You are, of course, free to attempt to support other aspects of the Creation hypothesis, such as a young Earth or global flood as well.

Requirements
In order to successfully meet the challenge, you must present how your evidence follows the scientific method. Namely, you must:

1. Present the positive hypothesis, showing how it is falsifiable.
2. Present experiments and tests that are statistically significant and methodologically pertinent that relate directly to your hypothesis.
3. Discuss how the evidence supports your hypothesis.

Remember to define any key terms used to prevent confusion.

You may not:

1. Use logical fallacies.
2. Use negative arguments (eg, arguments against evolution are not arguments for creation).
3. Use philosophical arguments.

If you are able to do this, you will be given several Gaia items and gold, totaling up to over 11,000,000 gold in value.

Judging
Those that have donated items to the reward pool will be the judges. Unanimous consent need not be gained, but rather a majority vote. Should the judges not respond within 3 days, their position will be considered an abstention and will not be counted.

Gold/Items that have been wagered thus far:

Katherine1 - Fire Whip (approx 73k) + Winged Anklets (approx 1.5m)
VoijaRisa - 50k gold + Chyaku Norisu scarf (approx 250k)
A Lost Iguana - Golden Laurels (approx 2.5m) & Ninja Band (approx 2.2m)
Redem - Ancient Katana (approx 450k)
Worm of Morgoth - Entire account (30k + items)
Jaaten Syric - Horns of the Demon (approx 2.7m)
mitoguard - Coco Kitty (approx 320k) and a Guitar of Demona (approx 300k)
Shokushu Ninja Band (approx 2.2m)
+____________________________________
Total Worth: ~11 million gold!


Of course, being that this is a wager, that means you have to put something up too. Given that most of us putting in items have been arguing evolution a long time, we can definitively say that the odds are extremely low you'll succeed. Thus you get the odds in your favor.

For each entry you submit, you must pay 5,000 gold prior to submitting your entry. If you win, this, plus all the items previously mentioned will be paid back to you. If you fail to present a valid argument, that gold will be evenly distributed amongst those that have donated the prizes. But seriously, you stand to make >1,800 times back what you wagered.

Entering
In order to enter, simply send the coordinator, VoijaRisa, a PM stating your intent to enter with a link to the post (in this thread) with your argument.

Arguments not to use
- Irreducible Complexity
- The Second Law of Thermodynamics
 
     
 
FAQ

Q. Can I add my wager on the evolution side?
A. Due to the overwhelming response of people wanting to contribute, we are no longer accepting additional people on the evolution side due to the added difficulty judging would present should any Creationist ever present an argument.

Q. If Creationism isn't science, why offer a challenge to show it is?
A. It's true that we don't think that Creationism is science. It's not even good philosophy or theology. However, we're not the ones claiming it's science. Creationists do that. They commonly insist that science supports their position and it is therefore it should be taught in science class. If they truly have something to put into classrooms that is science, we'd like to see it. Otherwise, how can we "teach the controversy" if they have no actual science?

Those of us who have been engaged in this debate for a long time have grown tired of this hollow mantra and are therefore, trying to encourage Creationists the chance to actually present their position and win a lot of prizes in the process. We doubt they can do it, but that's the point.

Q. What does teaching Creationism hurt anyway?
A. As stated in the Wedge Document, Intelligent Design Creationism seeks to "replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding...".

As such, it challenges not only biology and cosmology, but the entire underpinnings of science which is founded upon a methodological naturalism (which produces materialistic explanation). Such a reversion of thinking would effectively reduce science to the guesswork it was before the Rennisance era in which Alchemy and Astrology were respected "science".

Q. Why make Creationists pay to enter? Is this a gold making scam?
A. No scam at all. The 5k entry fee is a deterrent to those that would attempt to spam entries with no real thought. We want those who enter to actually put forth thought out arguments. At this time, no sponsor has made a single gold off this contest. All entries have been sponsored and in fact, one entrant (InsaneShadowFan) was even given 5k as a prize for actually taking the time to do research. After all, learning is what this thread's all about.

Additionally, this thread is no more a scam than James Randi's $1,000,000 Paranormal Challenge.

Q. I want to enter, but I can't pay the entry fee. Is there anything I can do?
A. Yes. Several of the hosts have volunteered to pay entry fees if someone truly wishes to enter but cannot afford it. PM either VoijaRisa or Katherine1 about the offer if you're interested.

Q. Why are you attacking faith!?
A. We're not. Faith is perfectly fine, and has it place. What we're out to show here is that faith masquerading as science is absurd.

Q. How are you defining Creationism?
A.While it can be argued that "Creationism" just means a belief in some sort of creator was in some way involved, this is not the form that has been gaining public attention in recent decades. The general argument that God or a higher, supernatural power directed things is not Creationism. It is simply theism.

Creationism (sometimes referred to as "creation science" wink is much narrower in scope. One of the first definitions, came from Arkansas Act 590 which states that creationism requires

Arkansas Act 590
(1) Sudden creation of the universe, energy, and life from nothing; (2) The insufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of all living kinds from a single organism; (3) Changes only within fixed limits of originally created kinds of plants and animals; (4) Separate ancestry for man and apes; (5) Explanation of the earth's geology by catastrophism including the occurrence of a worldwide flood; and (6) A relatively recent inception of the earth and living kinds.


In this form, we can clearly see that all aspects of this form aside from (1) are directly opposed to evolution. Today, this is often referred to as "Young Earth Creationism" (YEC). However, there exists other forms of creationism that omit (5) and (6) and allow for the scientifically accepted chronology. Indeed, some forms omit Christianity all together.

Thus, for the context of this thread in which we will analyze the form of creationism that is in the public spotlight and being thrust into political controversy, the definition by which I shall operate has three requirements:
1) A belief that God created life.
2) A claim of some sort of "evidence" or "explanation" for this belief.
3) A rejection of evolution.

Q. But isn't this really a strawman since no one actually claims to be able to have evidence for God? It's faith.
A. Here's a few of the most influential people that do claim to have actual scientific evidence:
- Michael Behe
- William Dembski
- Kent Hovind
- David Berlinski
- John Calvert
- Duane Gish
- Ken Ham
- Phillip Johnson
- Sun Myung Moon
- Henry Morris
- Jonathan Sarfati
- Jonathan Wells
- Kurt Wise

Additionally, here are some of the major organizations attempting to push creationism into schools that claim it is science:
- Discovery Institute
- Answers in Genesis
- Institute for Creation Research
- Access Research Network
- Creation Research Society
- Creation Science Evangelism
- Geoscience Research Institute
- Reasons to Believe
- Science Research Foundation
- Creation Truth Foundation

Q. But none of those people are going to come here to make those arguments. Why should Gaian Creationists have to defend their claims?
A. Simple: Because they use them. As such, they take on the burden of proof of their sources.

Entrants thus far
#1 - InsaneShadowFan
Results: Does not meet requirements.

#2 - tyliex
Results: Does not meet requirements.

#3 - JoSlifer
Results: Does not meet requirements.
     
(space reserved)
 
     
"They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance."
~Terry Pratchett

~ED's Resident Expert on Creationism~

I'll be nicer when you be smarter.
 
Stupid is as stupid does.
     


Stuch's Spoilers

Reservoir Dogs:
The rat? Who's the rat? Mr. Orange is the rat! Watch him close!
In b4 banana.
 
     
 
Kelly Couture
..... are you stupid, or just plain retarted.


I'd bet every piece of gold to my name that she's smarter than you... and I have almost 500k.
     
http://urlcut.com/1bwwh

Internet snark: because you know that someone would bust your face wide open if you were to say it IRL.
Kelly Couture
..... are you stupid, or just plain retarted.
Retarted: (v)
To be a tart once more.


Wait, did you just call her a whore?
 
     
 
Fresnel
Kelly Couture
..... are you stupid, or just plain retarted.
Retarted: (v)
To be a tart once more.


Wait, did you just call her a whore?


CAT FIGHT!

http://www.planebuzz.com/flying-cat-fight.jpg
     
Deformography
Kelly Couture
..... are you stupid, or just plain retarted.


I'd bet every piece of gold to my name that she's smarter than you... and I have almost 500k.


Offering gold, for people to prove a belief that is not based on proof is pretty stupid. I is aint no geneius, but I know that this is completely Dumbassness.
 
     
 
Kelly Couture
..... are you stupid, or just plain retarted.
Oh, no. This is a valid challenge. Think of James Randi's challenge about claims of the paranormal.

Of course, I do not think it is possible, but I'm willing to stump up capital to see if we have any decent arguments out there. Or have you not noticed the likes of Answers in Genesis or the Institute for Creation Research?
     
Fresnel
Kelly Couture
..... are you stupid, or just plain retarted.
Retarted: (v)
To be a tart once more.


Wait, did you just call her a whore?


No......I called her a skank.
 
     
 
I just contradicted myself... <edited>
     
I have found the reason is to love you and be loved by you alone.
Kelly Couture
Deformography
Kelly Couture
..... are you stupid, or just plain retarted.


I'd bet every piece of gold to my name that she's smarter than you... and I have almost 500k.


Offering gold, for people to prove a belief that is not based on proof is pretty stupid. I is aint no geneius, but I know that this is completely Dumbassness.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that you is aint no geneius.
 
     
Always outnumbered, never outgunned.

http://tinyurl.com/2zyubj
Now hiring.
 
Hass und Vergeltung haben wir uns geschworen
Unserer Herzen sie wurden zu Stein


At first I was tempted to come up with some devils-advocate argument so I could attempt to get the reward, even if I think creationism is a load of s**t.

Then, after about 2 minutes Google research, I realized that since creationism is an inherently unscientific position, it is impossible... literally physically impossible... to defend scientifically. Making this thread both pointless and rather questionable- particularly that bit about having to pay to enter a theory. If this is simply a way to scam gold out of creationist idiots, then I approve, but I bet the mods wouldn't. whee

Doch tief in dem Stein da brennt noch ein Feuer
Die Flamme der Freiheit lodernd und rein
     
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/562/orlyis0.jpg

Für dich, der du im Kampf gestanden
Gegen des Feindes Tyrannei
Erheben wir der Freiheit Fahnen
Bis unser Volk ist wieder frei
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