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Dapper Genius

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Kaworu 17
A tool to further respect? "I'm going to have sex with you because I respect you."? I think there are other, better ways to express respect...

See my prior "you're doing it wrong".

Kaworu 17
You're creeping me out here.

By what?
Your "show me" was unambiguously an innuendo. I was replying to that and have been, ever since, in a similar tone only instead of false familiarity, I was being a bit more honest.
You are pretty much an affront to all I hold true.

Kaworu 17
He has a cool story.

You realise there's more than one Diarmuid?

Kaworu 17
the man who made Christianity even more inclusive is its destroyer

Perhaps there is hope for you yet.
CuAnnan
Kaworu 17
You're creeping me out here.

By what?
Your "show me" was unambiguously an innuendo.


I didn't get it at first.

Dapper Genius

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CuAnnan
Kaworu 17
You're creeping me out here.

By what?
Your "show me" was unambiguously an innuendo.


I didn't get it at first.

I was so thoroughly disturbed by the thought I had to resort to gutter humor to defend myself.

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I have no idea what you are talking about. The issue at hand is this guy wants to align himself with a movement and ideology that does not exist.


So, tell me troll, which deity is it that died and made you the supreme decider of what does and does not exist? Egalitarian is not an umbrella term. You can claim it is such all you like, that doesn't make it so. I can claim the moon is made of swiss cheese but that will not make it so. Feminism is a movement that advocates for the issues directly affecting a single gender; women. If you focus on a single gender you are not focused on equality for all genders. The more we cow tow to third wave feminists the more boys fall through the cracks in an education system that third wave feminists pushed to alter to benefit only girls. That is not equality of genders. that is designing something to place girls on a higher educational spectrum. tell me something, do you think they need to do away with scholarships that are designed specifically for females? there are no male only scholarships outside of sports, but as both genders can earn sports scholarships for their chosen sport, they're not single-gender based. What about scholarships that are only for minorities? Do you think those need to also be done away with/ Do you think that every single person should have an equal chance at getting a scholarship and that it should only be based on their grades and SAT scores?


I know what egalitarianism is because I happen to read, and here is an article by the Stanford Encylcopedia validating what I have already said Egalitarianism.

Like I said previously, our personal feelings are irrelevant. I do not condone the KKK's version of equality, but just because I do not like it does not mean I can stick my fingers in my ears and closed my eyes and pretend it is not there.

Finally, here is several problems with the rest of your argument:

1) All feminists are concerned with education- no they are not.
2) All feminists ignore boys/men- look up Christiana Hoff Summers and the 'The War Against Boys'.
3) Feminist policies are directly related to the educational failure of boys- ha, have fun trying to prove that one.
4) Female dominate all areas of education- no there are both vocational and academic fields which are gendered i.e. engineering, nursing ect.
5) Scholarships- these are generally offered as incentives for women to enter fields which are male dominated. AKA they are under-represented in that field opposed to your assertion that they are over represented.


Thank you for admitting that you are not actually fighting for equality. You are only concerned with women and how to put them on a higher rung above men. You are a misandrist, nd I am done with you and your fake 'I wants equality for both genders'.


I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, considering I made no references to my own personal beliefs.

Quote:
After all, instead of actually answering the questions I posed to you, you threw out random s**t that showed you are incapable of being honest, intellectually or otherwise.


Your questions are based on fallacy, so how can I respond to them? For example you wrote that feminists are not interested in men, which I showed to not be true by giving a reference to feminist book on male issues. If you do not want to acknowledge facts then sadly there is no argument to be had,

Quote:
Quote:

e·gal·i·tar·i·an
iˌɡaləˈterēən/
adjective
adjective: egalitarian

1.
of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.
"a fairer, more egalitarian society"

noun
noun: egalitarian; plural noun: egalitarians

1.
a person who advocates or supports egalitarian principles.


That is what being an egalitarian is. Feminists are only focused on women. MRA's are only focused on men. If you are only focused on a single gender you cannot support equality. Claiming that you do is as asinine as someone focusing on only one race to better things for them, ignoring all others, and then saying 'But i want everyone to have equal opportunities'. No. you don't.


Unless the group you are supporting are being subjugated. Really think about what you are saying for a second. Would you accuse a gay rights campaigner of being prejudice against heterosexuals because they are not plugging rights for straight people? And this is why you fail the internet.


Look, go troll someone else. Your inability to comprehend that equality is not subjective, it is objective, and that a movement that focuses solely on one gender is in fact not fighting for the rights of all genders, is getting old. Pulling s**t out of your arse to try and support yourself just shows how much you are failing. Please point out where I, even once, said 'They're prejudiced'. Go on, point it out. We both know you will fail miserably because nowhere, in anything I have typed, have I said anything about prejudice.

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Only a fool thinks that a movement that is only focused on one gender is a movement steeped in equality for all genders. No, feminism, which advocates for women and women's issues, is not egalitarian.


And that would be your opinion according to your conception of equality, which sadly is not universal, so your point is moot.


No, it is fact. Focusing on a single gender does not create equality. It creates an unbalance in favor of that gender. Hence why patriarchy has taken so much heat, because it created an unbalance in favor of males and only males. The same can be said of the Men's Rights movement. It focuses solely on one gender, thus creating an unbalance in favor of men. In order for there to be a balance, you must focus on issues that affect not just women, or not just men, but everyone.

Of course, you are going to continue sticking your fingers in your ear, make s**t up, and go 'la la la la I can't hear you' because to actually acknowledge that feminism is not focused on equality, but on bettering things for one gender, would mean having to admit that its not about equality. And that is something few 'feminists' are willing to do.


Patriarchy actually own serves a certain demographic of males, aka middle upper class heterosexual white males. Men of ethnic minorities, lower classes, or who are homosexual or transsexual are not served by patriarchy, for example the issue of gay rights. You'll find that academic fields like Queer theory are dominated by feminists, so so much for your claim that 'feminists' are not interested in male issues, seeing that feminists like Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick or Judith Butler have all written pieces on the negative impact of gender on the men...

It seems you think because someone stick the prefix 'men' or 'women' in front of 'movement', then that movement must solely focus on men or women. This is not true of either of these movements. Feminists and MRA both claim that they are interested equality for both genders, and their discourses reflect that. You may not like the way they go about trying to pursue this 'equality', and you are entitled to that opinion- however ill informed it maybe.


He's right, you know. I mean if we're going to go by the definition of feminism, which states it is a movement advocating for women's rights, then yes, the movement is focused only on one gender.


Women obtained equal rights nearly half a century ago so why would modern feminism still be plugging for rights when they already have it. And that is why he fails the internet. He making a critical commentary on something that he knows absolute zip about.

Quote:
See,this is why many people think you third wave feminists are batshit insane and clueless about what the movement actually is. It has never been about focusing on issues that directly affect men. It has only ever been about issues that directly affect women. There is this belief that if you focus on making things 'better' for women it will somehow have the same effect for men. That's as absurd as the trickle down economic theory that says if you increase how much the wealthy have eventually that money will trickle down to the poor and pull them up out of poverty. It doesn't work that way. We have altered society, in some ways, to push women ahead but in focusing on just them, we have left males behind.


Many people are stupid. There are plenty of people who would criticise Marxism without ever having read what Marx and Engels had wrote. So it is unsurprising that people like yourself make assumptions based on a reductionist view of what feminism is supposed to be about. You claim that feminism is concerned with the accumulation of 'women rights', yet equal rights were obtained but in the 70s, further more with exception of reproductive rights all other rights are gender blind. And to add to that just because something on piece of paper says 'men and women should be treated equally' does not mean things like sexism, racism and any other types of discrimination magically stop. People still experience racism, sexism ect despite the existence of equality legislation.


The education system in the US is a prime example of this.

Quote:

Academics from the University of Georgia and Columbia University think they have more insight into why girls earn higher grades on report cards than boys do, despite the fact that girls do not necessarily outperform boys on achievement or IQ tests.

Christopher Cornwell, head of economics at the University of Georgia's Terry College of Business, UGA's David Mustard and Columbia's Jessica Van Parys have published a study that they say shows "gender disparities in teacher grades start early and uniformly favor girls."

The researchers analyzed data from 5,800 elementary school students and found that boys performed better on standardized exams in math, reading and science than their course grades reflected. The authors suggest that girls are truly only outperforming boys in "non-cognitive approaches to learning" -- defined as attentiveness, task persistence, eagerness to learn, learning independence, flexibility and organization -- leading to better grades from teachers. The study is published in the latest issue of The Journal of Human Resources.


Read the rest of the article:

Quote:
Other findings contradict some of Cornwell's points. Women are proving to score higher on IQ tests than men, and a spring study out of the University of Texas at Austin argues that teachers do tend to show gender bias, but in favor of boys, specifically in math.




Quote:
What’s behind the new gender gap? Theories of why boys are struggling in today’s classrooms abound. In her controversial book The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism is Harming Our Young Men, Christina Hoff Sommers writes that classrooms remodeled to serve the needs of girls are creating a reverse sexism that hurts boys. Less structured learning environments and less focus on grades and competition are hallmarks of a changing school landscape that, according to Sommers, puts boys at a disadvantage.


Christian Hoff Summers is an equity feminist. Congratulations you just disproved your own argument.

Quote:
Others speculate that a lack of boy-friendly reading material, a scarcity of male teachers, and the disappearance of recess may be hurting boys in the classroom. So which of these theories is really behind the problem?


There is a tremendous amount discourse on this subject, however you have to realise that there is more at stake here than 'all boys are under achieving because of women'. What most of your references do is offer an identification of a social trend without explaining why it is happening. It is a huge leap to say boys are underachieving so it must be sexism.

The few references that do have a tendency to gloss over the fact that if you take boys as a demographic then divide them up according to class, ethnicity ect, then you would find that some groups are doing better than others. Willis, a prominent British sociologist emphasises that there is a deeply rooted anti-school culture amongst boys. Boys from working classes are much more likely to undervalue the education system, which is unsurprising as their own parents are also more likely to undervalue the importance of education.

I want to emphasise at this point that I do believe men have issues, however there is a political dimension in the US between neoliberal and socialist academics that creates a lot of research that really isn't research but a polemic against the opposing party. For example Christiana Hoff Summers hates the type of liberal feminism found in universities and makes no bones about expressing this in her work, hence the title of her book.

What essential happens is that male problems become lost under this type of polemic. So books written by Christian Hoff Summers or MRA will focus on the education system and women as the perpetuators of male discrimination, rather than examining the more likely root cause which is things like anti-school culture, parental attitudes to education, socio-economic class or even the gender construction of boys.
Lucky~9~Lives
Kaworu 17
CuAnnan
Not really. See, sex can be an expression of respect and love as well as a tool to further either or both.
A tool to further respect? "I'm going to have sex with you because I respect you."?


"I respect you more now we've shared this sex."
I do wonder what exactly about sex would cultivate respect.
CuAnnan
See my prior "you're doing it wrong".
Respect and sex are kinda... opposites. Normally you would have sex with someone because you don't respect them... not the other way around.

CuAnnan
Your "show me" was unambiguously an innuendo.
No it wasn't, you pervert.

*sigh* Men...

CuAnnan
You realise there's more than one Diarmuid?
So? There's more than one Patrick but if I ever call you that you know who I'm talking about.

CuAnnan
Perhaps there is hope for you yet.
Not for you if you buy into that Zeitgeist-tier bullshit that "Paul ruined everything."

Dapper Genius

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Kaworu 17
CuAnnan
See my prior "you're doing it wrong".
Respect and sex are kinda... opposites. Normally you would have sex with someone because you don't respect them... not the other way around.

If one is having sex with people they do not respect the problem isn't the sex.
The problem is the one.
They are not well in either mind or soul.
I don't know how much more clearly I can express this to you.

Kaworu 17
No it wasn't, you pervert.

Yes. It was. You repressed reprobate.
"Show me" in response to "you're doing sex wrong" is necessarily an innuendo.

Kaworu 17
So? There's more than one Patrick but if I ever call you that you know who I'm talking about.

1) No. I wouldn't. Because I have studied Irish history and know that "St. Patrick" is an amalgamation of several early Irish Christian missionaries ranging from Maewin Succattus to Pollonius. So I would again, presuming I thought you knew your arse from your elbow (which is looking to be more like an assumption than a presumption), ask which Patrick you meant. Furthermore, it was my grandfather's name and is part of mine. So. No. I woulnd't.
2) There's more than one significant Diarmuid. There's prince Diarmuid and the story of Diarmuid and Grainne. You provided no context

Kaworu 17
Not for you if you buy into that Zeitgeist-tier bullshit that "Paul ruined everything."

Actually, my reading thereof comes from having read the bible.
Not a whacky "it's all a retelling of this not projection really sun cycle thing".
But nice attempt at guilt by association.
Perhaps there is no hope for you after all.
Kaworu 17
I do wonder what exactly about sex would cultivate respect.


A mutual vulnerability.
CuAnnan
I don't know how much more clearly I can express this to you.
You have to explain first what does sex have to do with respect.

CuAnnan
Yes. It was. You repressed reprobate.
"Show me" in response to "you're doing sex wrong" is necessarily an innuendo.
No no no no don't pin this on me. You said: "you're doing it wrong" which often means "the way you think is wrong", and as such I demanded an explanation. The only innuendo was in your sick head, pervert.

CuAnnan
1) No. I wouldn't. Because I have studied Irish history and know that "St. Patrick" is an amalgamation of several early Irish Christian missionaries ranging from Maewin Succattus to Pollonius.
Some minority opinion that two or three academics hold is not a fact.

CuAnnan
Furthermore, it was my grandfather's name and is part of mine. So. No. I woulnd't.
You shouldn't have said that.

CuAnnan
Actually, my reading thereof comes from having read the bible.
Not a whacky "it's all a retelling of this not projection really sun cycle thing".
But nice attempt at guilt by association.
Perhaps there is no hope for you after all.
I said Zeitgeist-tier in its ridiculous nonsense, not that it comes from Zeitgeist. Your reading is off today.

Dapper Genius

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Kaworu 17
You have to explain first what does sex have to do with respect.

No. I don't have to. Because you have done nothing to explain how it is demeaning.
However, I have already alluded to the physiological aspect of it; the rest of it, I'm afraid, is a mystery (in the Greek sense).

Kaworu 17
No no no no don't pin this on me. You said: "you're doing it wrong" which often means "the way you think is wrong", and as such I demanded an explanation.

o.O
No. I was being literal.

Kaworu 17
The only innuendo was in your sick head, pervert.

No, I see the disconnect now.
There is no perversion, merely a miscommunication owing to differences in our dialects.

Kaworu 17
Some minority opinion that two or three academics hold is not a fact.

Yeah, it pretty much is.

Kaworu 17
You shouldn't have said that.

Why not? The name on my passport is hardly a secret. I've posted videos of myself holding my passport to prove my Irish citizenship before.
Or do you think that my pride in my Grandfather should somehow be a source of shame?
Or perhaps you think that having ancestors is sinful somehow.

Dapper Genius

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Kaworu 17
I do wonder what exactly about sex would cultivate respect.


A mutual vulnerability.

To begin with. There is also that sense of communion that can come only of it.
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And that would be your opinion according to your conception of equality, which sadly is not universal, so your point is moot.


No, it is fact. Focusing on a single gender does not create equality. It creates an unbalance in favor of that gender. Hence why patriarchy has taken so much heat, because it created an unbalance in favor of males and only males. The same can be said of the Men's Rights movement. It focuses solely on one gender, thus creating an unbalance in favor of men. In order for there to be a balance, you must focus on issues that affect not just women, or not just men, but everyone.

Of course, you are going to continue sticking your fingers in your ear, make s**t up, and go 'la la la la I can't hear you' because to actually acknowledge that feminism is not focused on equality, but on bettering things for one gender, would mean having to admit that its not about equality. And that is something few 'feminists' are willing to do.


Patriarchy actually own serves a certain demographic of males, aka middle upper class heterosexual white males. Men of ethnic minorities, lower classes, or who are homosexual or transsexual are not served by patriarchy, for example the issue of gay rights. You'll find that academic fields like Queer theory are dominated by feminists, so so much for your claim that 'feminists' are not interested in male issues, seeing that feminists like Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick or Judith Butler have all written pieces on the negative impact of gender on the men...

It seems you think because someone stick the prefix 'men' or 'women' in front of 'movement', then that movement must solely focus on men or women. This is not true of either of these movements. Feminists and MRA both claim that they are interested equality for both genders, and their discourses reflect that. You may not like the way they go about trying to pursue this 'equality', and you are entitled to that opinion- however ill informed it maybe.


He's right, you know. I mean if we're going to go by the definition of feminism, which states it is a movement advocating for women's rights, then yes, the movement is focused only on one gender.


Women obtained equal rights nearly half a century ago so why would modern feminism still be plugging for rights when they already have it. And that is why he fails the internet. He making a critical commentary on something that he knows absolute zip about.


You just shot yourself and feminism in the foot. If women have gained all rights, meaning everything is equal, then feminism is a dead movement and this entire thread is moot. Good job.
Kaworu 17
CuAnnan
See my prior "you're doing it wrong".
Respect and sex are kinda... opposites. Normally you would have sex with someone because you don't respect them... not the other way around.


..Wait, what? I'm sorry, but what have you been smoking, kid? Seriously. I don't know of any religion that actually says all sex is evil and bad and disrespectful. Even Catholicism,which is one of the most restrictive religions in the entire world, doesn't say all sex is evil, just sex outside of the marriage bed.

Kaworu 17
CuAnnan
Your "show me" was unambiguously an innuendo.
No it wasn't, you pervert.

*sigh* Men...


Are you a misandrist?

Dapper Genius

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Queen of Mercury
Wait, what? I'm sorry, but what have you been smoking, kid? Seriously. I don't know of any religion that actually says all sex is evil and bad and disrespectful. Even Catholicism,which is one of the most restrictive religions in the entire world, doesn't say all sex is evil, just sex outside of the marriage bed.

The Catechism is quite a deal more specific than that.
Any sexual act which does not accommodate the potential for procreation is an unnatural one, an adulterous one or an otherwise evil act.

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