Why do people flock to Tim Burton's remakes, but...

[The Drunken Jester]

I saw the short that Frankenweenie was based off of way back in the day. It was cute but I wasn't gonna spend money to watch a full length version of it.
It's kind of the more ridiculous of his ideas. If he were going to make a full length film of one of his black and white shorts I would've preferred the one about Vincent. The kid who liked Edgar Allen Poe and wanted to all macabre like Vincent Price.

And my favorite Tim Burton film will ALWAYS be The Nightmare Before Christmas.
Not that I don't love his remakes, but some of them are kind of..... eehh~hhh.

[Captain Talavar]

The Drunken Jester

I saw the short that Frankenweenie was based off of way back in the day. It was cute but I wasn't gonna spend money to watch a full length version of it.
It's kind of the more ridiculous of his ideas. If he were going to make a full length film of one of his black and white shorts I would've preferred the one about Vincent. The kid who liked Edgar Allen Poe and wanted to all macabre like Vincent Price.

And my favorite Tim Burton film will ALWAYS be The Nightmare Before Christmas.
Not that I don't love his remakes, but some of them are kind of..... eehh~hhh.

The Nightmare Before Christmas is not a Tim Burton film. It is a Henry Selick film.

As for Frankenweenie, it was always meant to be a feature-length animated movie. That's how he wanted to do it, but Disney wouldn't let him the first time. Doing in stop-motion makes a lot of sense thematically too, because stop-motion animation is about bringing the inanimate to life...which is what Frankenstein, and thus Frankenweenie, are all about.

[The Drunken Jester]

Captain Talavar

The Drunken Jester

I saw the short that Frankenweenie was based off of way back in the day. It was cute but I wasn't gonna spend money to watch a full length version of it.
It's kind of the more ridiculous of his ideas. If he were going to make a full length film of one of his black and white shorts I would've preferred the one about Vincent. The kid who liked Edgar Allen Poe and wanted to all macabre like Vincent Price.

And my favorite Tim Burton film will ALWAYS be The Nightmare Before Christmas.
Not that I don't love his remakes, but some of them are kind of..... eehh~hhh.

The Nightmare Before Christmas is not a Tim Burton film. It is a Henry Selick film.

As for Frankenweenie, it was always meant to be a feature-length animated movie. That's how he wanted to do it, but Disney wouldn't let him the first time. Doing in stop-motion makes a lot of sense thematically too, because stop-motion animation is about bringing the inanimate to life...which is what Frankenstein, and thus Frankenweenie, are all about.

It might've been directed by Henry Selick, but it's a Tim Burton creation, so I think it counts. The whole title is "Tim Burton's: The Nightmare Before Christmas"
And if you can't be swayed then I change my answer to Edward Scissorhands.

And nothing you've said about Frankenweenie makes me change my mind about it. I saw the short, I know the basics of the story, it just doesn't interest me enough to go see it. No matter what wacky stuff he's added to it.

[Captain Talavar]

The Drunken Jester

It might've been directed by Henry Selick, but it's a Tim Burton creation, so I think it counts. The whole title is "Tim Burton's: The Nightmare Before Christmas"
And if you can't be swayed then I change my answer to Edward Scissorhands.

It's not a Tim Burton creation. Tim Burton wrote a little poem and had a hand in design in the early stages, but Selick was the one who worked for two years in the studio moving those puppets frame-by-frame to get the shots, and Selick worked with Danny Elfman to get the story right for the music. It's called "Tim Burton's" The Nightmare Before Christmas because he produced it, and his name was a big deal. Disney was worried that it would be a flop (and it kind of was at first), hence why they didn't even release it under the Disney banner at the time. They figured that calling it "Tim Burton's" it would be a marketing push. Studios still do this all the time. The new movie Mama coming out this Friday is often marketed as "from Guillermo del Toro" even though he's only the producer, and the director of the film (and of the short film it's based on) is actually Andres Muschietti. But his name doesn't have that "wow" factor or fan-favorite factor that GDT's name has, or Tim Burton's name has.

[The Drunken Jester]

Captain Talavar

The Drunken Jester

It might've been directed by Henry Selick, but it's a Tim Burton creation, so I think it counts. The whole title is "Tim Burton's: The Nightmare Before Christmas"
And if you can't be swayed then I change my answer to Edward Scissorhands.

It's not a Tim Burton creation. Tim Burton wrote a little poem and had a hand in design in the early stages, but Selick was the one who worked for two years in the studio moving those puppets frame-by-frame to get the shots, and Selick worked with Danny Elfman to get the story right for the music. It's called "Tim Burton's" The Nightmare Before Christmas because he produced it, and his name was a big deal. Disney was worried that it would be a flop (and it kind of was at first), hence why they didn't even release it under the Disney banner at the time. They figured that calling it "Tim Burton's" it would be a marketing push. Studios still do this all the time. The new movie Mama coming out this Friday is often marketed as "from Guillermo del Toro" even though he's only the producer, and the director of the film (and of the short film it's based on) is actually Andres Muschietti. But his name doesn't have that "wow" factor or fan-favorite factor that GDT's name has, or Tim Burton's name has.

I've seen a lot of evidence that Tim Burton had a heavier hand in it than that.
Such as notebooks full of rough character designs and progression drawn by Burton, things like that. I've seen pictures of him in the studio with the puppets too, but I'd guess that those were just publicity shots anyhow.
I'm willing to say it's not 'his movie', but it's still his story and his design and etc etc.... That, in my opinion anyhow, makes it his creation, even if he didn't actually move the puppets or do the directing himself. And I've seen plenty of similar elements in the movies Selick didn't have a hand in, so I'm not willing to believe all of it is Selick's work.
Though, like I said, I can change my answer to Edward Scissorhands if you don't think of it as a Tim Burton movie.

I like Henry Selick too. I thought Coraline was awesome.

[Elder Brother]

well, if there's anything i learned from this thread, it's how little of Tim Burton i really know.

[Captain Talavar]

The Drunken Jester

I've seen a lot of evidence that Tim Burton had a heavier hand in it than that.
Such as notebooks full of rough character designs and progression drawn by Burton, things like that. I've seen pictures of him in the studio with the puppets too, but I'd guess that those were just publicity shots anyhow.
I'm willing to say it's not 'his movie', but it's still his story and his design and etc etc.... That, in my opinion anyhow, makes it his creation, even if he didn't actually move the puppets or do the directing himself. And I've seen plenty of similar elements in the movies Selick didn't have a hand in, so I'm not willing to believe all of it is Selick's work.
Though, like I said, I can change my answer to Edward Scissorhands if you don't think of it as a Tim Burton movie.

I like Henry Selick too. I thought Coraline was awesome.

Burton was only there for a little over a week during the whole process, and not consecutively either. Burton wanted to direct, which might explain his hand in some of the pre-production work, but he was busy shooting Batman Returns and prepping Ed Wood, and the original poem was very, very basic, and didn't have much of the backstory or world building. It was just Jack playing Santa. According to Selick, and this is a direct quote, "I don't want to take away from Tim, but he was not in San Francisco when we made it. He came up five times over two years, and spent no more than eight or ten days in total."

[The Drunken Jester]

Captain Talavar

Burton was only there for a little over a week during the whole process, and not consecutively either. Burton wanted to direct, which might explain his hand in some of the pre-production work, but he was busy shooting Batman Returns and prepping Ed Wood, and the original poem was very, very basic, and didn't have much of the backstory or world building. It was just Jack playing Santa. According to Selick, and this is a direct quote, "I don't want to take away from Tim, but he was not in San Francisco when we made it. He came up five times over two years, and spent no more than eight or ten days in total."

Tim Burton did quite a lot of that world building. He wrote the original poem, true, but you're just writing that off as the only thing he did to creatively contribute. Which just isn't true.

You're just going to have to write me off as unreasonable because I'm not going to change my mind. Like I said, it's Henry Selick's film. He did the work on it. But the actual making of the film is not all that goes into something like that. It's a Tim Burton work, and if you can't see it in the similarity of that and his other stuff, or just don't care because you value a different aspect of it, then that's fine.
But if we're not going to agree then you don't have to keep going on about it.

[The Bijoux]

Aren't most of his movies remakes?

Here is a list of the movies he has directed that were HIS original ideas. (not including shorts)

Edward Scissorhands
Corpse Bride
Frankenweenie (although is very much based on Frankenstein)

A list of his remakes or screenplays he got from other sources.

Pee-wee's Big Adventure (Based on the television show)
Beetlejuice (Not written by him)
Batman (based on the comic)
Batman Returns (Sequel, also based on the comic)
Ed Wood (Adapted from Ed Wood's life, not written by Tim Burton)
Mars Attacks! (based on the trading card game)
Sleepy Hollow (Based on the Legend of Sleepy Hollow, could be considered a remake)
Planet of the Apes (Remake)
Big Fish (Based on a novel)
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (remake)
Sweeney Todd (Adapted from the broadway play)
Alice in Wonderland (based on the book)
Dark Shadows (Based from the TV Show)

So do you see why his remakes do better? Most of his films are remakes or from other sources.

Nightmare Before Christmas is not listed because he did not direct it.

[The Bijoux]

The Drunken Jester

Captain Talavar

Burton was only there for a little over a week during the whole process, and not consecutively either. Burton wanted to direct, which might explain his hand in some of the pre-production work, but he was busy shooting Batman Returns and prepping Ed Wood, and the original poem was very, very basic, and didn't have much of the backstory or world building. It was just Jack playing Santa. According to Selick, and this is a direct quote, "I don't want to take away from Tim, but he was not in San Francisco when we made it. He came up five times over two years, and spent no more than eight or ten days in total."

Tim Burton did quite a lot of that world building. He wrote the original poem, true, but you're just writing that off as the only thing he did to creatively contribute. Which just isn't true.

You're just going to have to write me off as unreasonable because I'm not going to change my mind. Like I said, it's Henry Selick's film. He did the work on it. But the actual making of the film is not all that goes into something like that. It's a Tim Burton work, and if you can't see it in the similarity of that and his other stuff, or just don't care because you value a different aspect of it, then that's fine.
But if we're not going to agree then you don't have to keep going on about it.

Well, you might as well say that Bram Stoker's Dracula was a Bram Stoker film because he wrote the original story and they put his name in the title.

[The Drunken Jester]

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

Tim Burton did quite a lot of that world building. He wrote the original poem, true, but you're just writing that off as the only thing he did to creatively contribute. Which just isn't true.

You're just going to have to write me off as unreasonable because I'm not going to change my mind. Like I said, it's Henry Selick's film. He did the work on it. But the actual making of the film is not all that goes into something like that. It's a Tim Burton work, and if you can't see it in the similarity of that and his other stuff, or just don't care because you value a different aspect of it, then that's fine.
But if we're not going to agree then you don't have to keep going on about it.

Well, you might as well say that Bram Stoker's Dracula was a Bram Stoker film because he wrote the original story and they put his name in the title.

I'll let a Bram Stoker fan battle that one out. Since I don't think I watched that movie and I don't care about Dracula or Vampires.

But I'm not going to change my opinion on this. Like I said before. Sure, It's Henry Selick's movie. But it's still a Tim Burton creation.

[The Bijoux]

The Drunken Jester

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

Tim Burton did quite a lot of that world building. He wrote the original poem, true, but you're just writing that off as the only thing he did to creatively contribute. Which just isn't true.

You're just going to have to write me off as unreasonable because I'm not going to change my mind. Like I said, it's Henry Selick's film. He did the work on it. But the actual making of the film is not all that goes into something like that. It's a Tim Burton work, and if you can't see it in the similarity of that and his other stuff, or just don't care because you value a different aspect of it, then that's fine.
But if we're not going to agree then you don't have to keep going on about it.

Well, you might as well say that Bram Stoker's Dracula was a Bram Stoker film because he wrote the original story and they put his name in the title.

I'll let a Bram Stoker fan battle that one out. Since I don't think I watched that movie and I don't care about Dracula or Vampires.

But I'm not going to change my opinion on this. Like I said before. Sure, It's Henry Selick's movie. But it's still a Tim Burton creation.

But he didn't direct it. He wrote the origina; poem. How often do you source the writer of a novel for the creation of a movie?

[The Drunken Jester]

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

Tim Burton did quite a lot of that world building. He wrote the original poem, true, but you're just writing that off as the only thing he did to creatively contribute. Which just isn't true.

You're just going to have to write me off as unreasonable because I'm not going to change my mind. Like I said, it's Henry Selick's film. He did the work on it. But the actual making of the film is not all that goes into something like that. It's a Tim Burton work, and if you can't see it in the similarity of that and his other stuff, or just don't care because you value a different aspect of it, then that's fine.
But if we're not going to agree then you don't have to keep going on about it.

Well, you might as well say that Bram Stoker's Dracula was a Bram Stoker film because he wrote the original story and they put his name in the title.

I'll let a Bram Stoker fan battle that one out. Since I don't think I watched that movie and I don't care about Dracula or Vampires.

But I'm not going to change my opinion on this. Like I said before. Sure, It's Henry Selick's movie. But it's still a Tim Burton creation.

But he didn't direct it. He wrote the origina; poem. How often do you source the writer of a novel for the creation of a movie?

That's like saying that Chris Columbus owns Harry Potter because he directed some of the Harry Potter movies.

[The Bijoux]

The Drunken Jester

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

Tim Burton did quite a lot of that world building. He wrote the original poem, true, but you're just writing that off as the only thing he did to creatively contribute. Which just isn't true.

You're just going to have to write me off as unreasonable because I'm not going to change my mind. Like I said, it's Henry Selick's film. He did the work on it. But the actual making of the film is not all that goes into something like that. It's a Tim Burton work, and if you can't see it in the similarity of that and his other stuff, or just don't care because you value a different aspect of it, then that's fine.
But if we're not going to agree then you don't have to keep going on about it.

Well, you might as well say that Bram Stoker's Dracula was a Bram Stoker film because he wrote the original story and they put his name in the title.

I'll let a Bram Stoker fan battle that one out. Since I don't think I watched that movie and I don't care about Dracula or Vampires.

But I'm not going to change my opinion on this. Like I said before. Sure, It's Henry Selick's movie. But it's still a Tim Burton creation.

But he didn't direct it. He wrote the origina; poem. How often do you source the writer of a novel for the creation of a movie?

That's like saying that Chris Columbus owns Harry Potter because he directed some of the Harry Potter movies.

Who said anything about owning? I'm talking about the creator and end product. JK Rowling did not direct the movie, and while the original story was hers, the movie was created by Chris Columbus. Without his direction you would have gotten something very different. He also did not write the screen play. If you want to give credit to all the characters in the movie other than Jack and Zero then that credit goes to Michael McDowel and Caroline Thompson.

[The Drunken Jester]

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

The Bijoux

The Drunken Jester

Tim Burton did quite a lot of that world building. He wrote the original poem, true, but you're just writing that off as the only thing he did to creatively contribute. Which just isn't true.

You're just going to have to write me off as unreasonable because I'm not going to change my mind. Like I said, it's Henry Selick's film. He did the work on it. But the actual making of the film is not all that goes into something like that. It's a Tim Burton work, and if you can't see it in the similarity of that and his other stuff, or just don't care because you value a different aspect of it, then that's fine.
But if we're not going to agree then you don't have to keep going on about it.

Well, you might as well say that Bram Stoker's Dracula was a Bram Stoker film because he wrote the original story and they put his name in the title.

I'll let a Bram Stoker fan battle that one out. Since I don't think I watched that movie and I don't care about Dracula or Vampires.

But I'm not going to change my opinion on this. Like I said before. Sure, It's Henry Selick's movie. But it's still a Tim Burton creation.

But he didn't direct it. He wrote the origina; poem. How often do you source the writer of a novel for the creation of a movie?

That's like saying that Chris Columbus owns Harry Potter because he directed some of the Harry Potter movies.

Who said anything about owning? I'm talking about the creator and end product. JK Rowling did not direct the movie, and while the original story was hers, the movie was created by Chris Columbus. Without his direction you would have gotten something very different.

Well, I'm not saying that the movie is Tim Burton's. I'm saying the creation is.
He spent 9 years working on that idea. 9 years from the writing of the original poem to the production of the film.... well, 7 technically.
I don't take offense at saying the film itself isn't Tim Burton's. I take offense at saying that it's not his creation. He did a LOT of work on it before Henry Selick came into the picture.

Therefore I think it counts in the list of Tim Burton movies. And is my favorite that he ever had a hand in.