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The Mountain v. The Viper

Ten kinds of awesome! 0.69866666666667 69.9% [ 262 ]
I want my money back! 0.30133333333333 30.1% [ 113 ]
Total Votes:[ 375 ]
Eveille's avatar

Sparkling Reveler

Trigona
Eveille
Haven't seen this weeks ep, but wow, reading the posts here, it sounds like they made some amazing decisions yet again .... rolleyes . /megasulk!.

screw whoever is making these stupid calls about what scenes to shoot and what scenes to cut, what characters to keep/add and which ones to cut. Listen person: YOU SUCK AT LIFE!. F-OFF!!!

I am about to just buy the graphic novel and get my imagery fill that way.

This episode has definately had the most changes out of the entire show. No one has even mentioned the biggest one yet! Hint: it involves Dany.

There's a graphic novel? emotion_kirakira Where can I find such a thing!?


Thar she blows! .. idk. I just don't know, I just felt like saying that.

And yea, I heard about the stolen dragons and injured/dead Irri...not amused. Not amused!

cat_evil cat_stressed cat_scream emotion_donotwant emotion_facepalm gonk stressed scream
Trigona's avatar

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Eveille

Wow! Might have to look into those C:
And yeah. The dragons... Ugh. What the fishsticks.
Eveille's avatar

Sparkling Reveler

Trigona
Eveille

Wow! Might have to look into those C:
And yeah. The dragons... Ugh. What the fishsticks.


I don't even get the changes anymore. Budget, time, ratings; those I get, those explained the little changes and cuts to season 1. What they have done to season 2? Inexcusable. The changes are snowballing and they are gonna crush the story.

I don't understand. They picked this story because it was a good story, because they read it and liked it and wanted to make it visual. So why fix what wasn't broken? and by fix I mean destroy. What is going on in their heads this time around? The book sequence made sense, the characters made sense, 'o look, this is easy to follow, let's change it!'. @_@
Star of the South's avatar

Star Star

As my week-long vacation fell through the roof, I didn't have to wait until Thursday to watch it o/.

It was a solidly decent episode; some great, some good, some blah. Last week's was infinitely better.

This is, of course, mainly a Theon post, which I kind of said I would do, although I doubt it was what Renee wanted for a big reason; the show did not do an effective job on Theon and his...actions, at least, not yet. It's still early times, and I hope all my concerns get addressed. This is also peppered with minor related book spoilers.

white;

One thing I was worried about with not being in his head was the fact we wouldn't get a sense of his inner conflicts, and I don't think they did enough to show them in the show, at least, so far.
I mean, I'm not a Theon apologist. He does bad things, to good people. It's everything else about him when he does bad things that makes him great to me, and with that taken out, what's left?
Theon went into Winterfell to try and prove himself as a Greyjoy, but it wasn't as simple as that. He didn't go in there just to be a d**k to everyone and kill them for the slightest talk back. In the books, he did not want to be cruel to them. They kept in that Theon clearly fully intended to be "a good lord", which was good. He did have affection for these people, and wanted to be good to them (if they kept their own peace with him). I mean, Theon demanding Bran yields is basically saying "I want them to listen to me, but I don't want to kill anyone". They immediately threw out Theon's desire to be good to them however.

While I'm glad they made the Cleftjaw stand in for Reek as the one whispering in his ear and helping his bad decision making, I didn't like that Theon sentenced/killed Ser Rodrik. That was a Ramsay Snow move, and adding more blood on Theon's hands (through established characters) without having his inner turmoil fully present just paints him as a villain. It is a lot different than killing Mikken in the books without having any inner insight to even go along with his rash act.

I mean, it's still early times for that storyline but I hope they find ways to present Theon's conflicts with himself and his actions. I mean, he regrets things as they happen in the books and that alone is very significant of his character.

I did love Ser Rodrik's final words, "Now you are truly lost" and him completely botching the beheading was fantastic. Theon truly is lost now. Now no one wants him, Greyjoy/Ironborn or Stark/Northman.
And the scene itself? It was so good and really intense. If I weren't so damn attached to the character, I'd probably would have loved it even after instead of being more worried.

I also didn't like that they basically glossed over how Theon got in there in the first place. It was his only good plan/idea.

Again though, Alfie Allen did an amazing job. He did pull off some looks/glances that suggest his inner conflicts, but I don't think anyone who hasn't read the books would notice them. He's just a villain, now more than ever, when he is very much a character rooted in shades of eternal grey.
Despite all the stars in my eyes, if I hadn't read the books, I'd probably hate Theon too. There's just so much lost in the character without being in his head.


Littlefinger. God damn, he must have a magical horse with jet packs to get around so fast /:
I did like how Littlefinger catches on to Arya though, and says nothing.
I was actually liking Ygritte. Hopefully this lasts. "...you're still moving around". "Really? I hadn't noticed that time :smugsmile: "
The riot scene was amazing too. Showed the state of King's Landing perfectly.
Xaro Xhoan Ducksauce is so great, I'm thrilled they changed his character to something amazing. I didn't care for him in the books at all. The Spice King is fabulous too. Troll-y bugger, I love himmmmmmm. He's literally my own voice in the show, because dammit, Dany. Stop yelling about who you are, everyone gets it. Blah blah blah.
Also, wtf. Why kill Irri, she's more awesome than Doreah. I can see what they were doing with the ending, but it was so rushed it fell pretty flat.

I love Tywin, so much.
I also love that's how they managed to walk around Arya not choosing Tywin as a Jaqen kill.
And the Arya/Jaqen exchange. Jaqen's exasperated face omg :3.
Robb also got completely c**k-blocked by Cat, ownnnnnnnnnned.
Ramsay Snow mention though! There is hope
!
Trigona's avatar

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Eveille
Trigona
Eveille

Wow! Might have to look into those C:
And yeah. The dragons... Ugh. What the fishsticks.


I don't even get the changes anymore. Budget, time, ratings; those I get, those explained the little changes and cuts to season 1. What they have done to season 2? Inexcusable. The changes are snowballing and they are gonna crush the story.

I don't understand. They picked this story because it was a good story, because they read it and liked it and wanted to make it visual. So why fix what wasn't broken? and by fix I mean destroy. What is going on in their heads this time around? The book sequence made sense, the characters made sense, 'o look, this is easy to follow, let's change it!'. @_@

Probably for the same reason any book to movie/tv adaptions are completely different. Which I really don't see the point in at all, honestly.
What really bothers me is that Martin is an executive producer AND a writer for the show! Seriously, if I ever got a book published and had it turned into a movie, I'd be furious if anyone wanted to change anything. I don't get how authors let such things stand.
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Star of the South

It bothered me how Cat was all smiley when she was scolding Robb for flirting with that girl (who I'm assuming is the one he marries). She should be a little more forceful with that, since he is promised to another. I think if his Catelyn was there in the books when he met her, he wouldn't have been the biggest idiot ever and married her in the first place. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if he didn't marry her in the show. I'd like to know what would happen if the Red Wedding didn't happen.
Tacofoolio's avatar

Shameless Nerd

Star of the South


Hey Star, sorry about your vacation, but yay for GoT! It makes everything better!

K, now to white out everything!

I fully understand what you're saying when it comes to Theon, I actually did feel like with the acting you could see Theon's conflict very well though. Hesitating at all shows a lot, because he risks looking weak in front of his men. The fact he tried to do the beheading himself shows a lot, because clearly he was trying to also prove himself to the North as well even while doing such a horrible act. Even the conversation with Bran showed a lot in how he just wanted them to yield and his hesitation when Bran asked if he hated them all along.

The sad thing is, in some ways it makes it worse when he does kill Sir Rodrik and everything else since he clearly does know it's evil, yet he's willing to betray Winterfell so completely to please his father. The fact things aren't black and white makes it all so dark, it isn't like he's fighting bad people for honor, these are good people, and his motivation is quite selfish. I think the main thing that stops him from being a full out villain is you sympathize with him wanting to be loved and respected, and that he does want to do things as peacefully as he can, unfortunately you can't please both sides though, especially the Ironblood. sad

On to Littlefinger, xD now I'm picturing him flying around Westeros on a rainbow pony! Also, I'm so undecided on if he recognized Arya! I tend to think he did, but as a schemer, he's going to keep it to himself until he can use that information to his advantage, otherwise is going to simply not say anything to help Cersei after her stunt with the guards. I think the fact we aren't quite sure what he's thinking brings him back to the Littlefinger I love. <3

Now, I am so happy to know I'm not alone in my feelings about Dany right now! I was enjoying the Spice King owning her because right now she's driving me crazy. She's acting like Viserys and Stannis, which is not a good thing. The sense of entitlement to the throne is part of why those two come across bad, Viserys of course had a lot of other things to add to that, but much of that came from the sense of entitlement. But both Stannis and Dany go on about how the throne is rightfully theirs, with their supernatural sidekicks/children being their major reason to actually succeed, and ignoring their advisers about the best ways to do so. Dany, your charm is a big reason you could get support, don't forget about it with this pushiness.

Also, I have mixed feelings on the dragons being stolen, it's an interesting twist, but really makes Dany look bad. Also WTF Irri, why must you die?!
Tacofoolio's avatar

Shameless Nerd

Trigona
Star of the South

It bothered me how Cat was all smiley when she was scolding Robb for flirting with that girl (who I'm assuming is the one he marries). She should be a little more forceful with that, since he is promised to another. I think if his Catelyn was there in the books when he met her, he wouldn't have been the biggest idiot ever and married her in the first place. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if he didn't marry her in the show. I'd like to know what would happen if the Red Wedding didn't happen.


To me, I saw Cat smiling so that she came across polite and understanding, otherwise I'd think Robb would be more likely to act rebellious. Kings aren't fond of their moms interfering after all. xD
Eveille's avatar

Sparkling Reveler

Trigona
Eveille
Trigona
Eveille

Wow! Might have to look into those C:
And yeah. The dragons... Ugh. What the fishsticks.


I don't even get the changes anymore. Budget, time, ratings; those I get, those explained the little changes and cuts to season 1. What they have done to season 2? Inexcusable. The changes are snowballing and they are gonna crush the story.

I don't understand. They picked this story because it was a good story, because they read it and liked it and wanted to make it visual. So why fix what wasn't broken? and by fix I mean destroy. What is going on in their heads this time around? The book sequence made sense, the characters made sense, 'o look, this is easy to follow, let's change it!'. @_@

Probably for the same reason any book to movie/tv adaptions are completely different. Which I really don't see the point in at all, honestly.
What really bothers me is that Martin is an executive producer AND a writer for the show! Seriously, if I ever got a book published and had it turned into a movie, I'd be furious if anyone wanted to change anything. I don't get how authors let such things stand.


I'd be really angry too, especially if I just spent like 20 years writing the damned things. I hope all these changes don't affect Winds of Winter for the worse. I really really wish-upon-a-star that he keeps his story as it was.

Season 1 was alright, in fact, for a book-to-show translation, it was pretty good. Season 2 is a wallow-y mess of gelatin and radioactive waste. I am hating it. Budget and time no longer explains the changes when they remove cannon to add in random s**t that makes 0 sense (Littlefinger and his jet-pack horse for starters).

If you are gonna change things, at least remove/shorten some things in order to give other scenes enough time; not to add in crap.

Ugh, just /rage.

I must say, I do enjoy seeing the costumes/scenery/intro maps...but that is getting to be about it. :/
Trigona's avatar

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Tacofoolio

Littlefinger so knows. First of all, he's not a complete moron whose position is so high, he doesn't even notice the help. He notices everything. He's also not one of those people who thinks a new haircut makes someone completely unrecognizable. Plus, he made that comment to Tywin about going to see Cat about her daughters while looking in the direction that Arya left. I doubt he'll tell a soul.
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Tacofoolio

But now, he might not take it so seriously. Like when he's about to do it with her, he probably won't even remember he's supposed to marry a Frey because Catelyn's warning wasn't strong enough. I also think Robb doesn't feel 100% a king yet, so he's still willing to listen to his mother, at least when his men aren't around.
Star of the South's avatar

Star Star

Trigona

I took Cat smiling about it as she wasn't taking it very seriously. More taking it as her son has a little crush on some girl; she probably doesn't think it will go anywhere because of his commitment to Walder Frey. She did just get back from Renly's camp as well, the first thing she doesn't want to do is start going off on her son (who already has shown he won't always listen to her) about what he can't do.
It's not like Cat got back and he was already married to her and I'm sure we're in for Robb being a love-stricken guy and Cat will have plenty of times to actually scold him
.


Tacofoolio

heart . A failed vacation also means money otherwise saved xD;

Yeah, I can see how it's more effective than I'm making it out to be. I wrote that part of the post moments after I watched the scene, so I think I was in a mixture of panic, "OMG WHAT DID I JUST WATCH?" at a terribly intense scene, and fangirl flailing (because "you will address me as Prince Theon" had me shaking). I honestly feel better after reading posts like yours and having more time to understand everything that the changes bring to the table~. 3nodding

I'm pretty sure it's just that I am so darn invested in the character, I'm terrified (and probably already jumping the gun) that what I love about him will be swept under the rushes.
I think the main thing I can't effectively come to terms with is that they've made him hack off the head of a loved established character (which didn't happen in the books) but with none of the POV style of knowledge. The hesitation and faces Alfie pulled did do a great job, but I don't think it was quite enough, especially for non-book readers ; ____;. Most people I know who watch the show/haven't read the books barely realized the looks and pauses, and were like "how the poo poo do you like this character".

You also made a good point, it makes a distinct stand that Theon has chosen the Greyjoy side, despite being treated like crap by his father and sister. If he had killed a character that wasn't even a part of the show, there would have been even less an emotional impact.

And like I said, it's very early in that story, so there's plenty of time for his conflicts and eventual regrets to come forward. Happy thoughtssssssssssssss~!

I completely agree with you about Littlefinger. He totally knows it's her and is effectively telling Cersei to bugger off after her stunt with the guards, without her even knowing! I think it's a great change that says a lot about Littlefinger. He's a schemer, but not necessarily cruel. Just incredibly selfish. Knowledge is power, indeed ;3.

Spice King for..well..King! He knows what's up. Dany is the worst, I'm sorry. The TV show isn't helping her case either. If she yells at me about taking what is hers, or something about fire and blood again, I quit show!Dany just as I quit book!Dany xD.

I'm excited to see where they're taking the dragons being stolen plot-line though. Qarth was pretty boring outside of the House of the Undying, but even that made little sense in the books. I'm hoping Pyat Pree/the Warlocks stole the Dragons to lure her to them or something. It could be really interesting, depending on where they take it. Dany's lost the majority of her Khalasar, now she's lost her dragons. It could be interesting.

It was also the fact Irri was dead, but she didn't even react? It felt so weird.
I hope Irri and Rakharo find each other in the Night Lands and sass and happy with each other for their eternal afterlife ; _____________;


I also really want someone to draw Littlefinger on this horse of his xDDD.
Trigona
Star of the South

It bothered me how Cat was all smiley when she was scolding Robb for flirting with that girl (who I'm assuming is the one he marries). She should be a little more forceful with that, since he is promised to another. I think if his Catelyn was there in the books when he met her, he wouldn't have been the biggest idiot ever and married her in the first place. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if he didn't marry her in the show. I'd like to know what would happen if the Red Wedding didn't happen.
Bleh...I want the red wedding to happen...If it does not...they better keep Jaqen in longer.
Theon is weak...I can see why Ramsay made him be meek....rhymes with weak. I find him more disgusting then my own character....at least I know I'm trouble.
Trigona
Girl With The Windex Eyes

Roose told Robb that , remember? So Reek isn't needed. Which is honestly fine by me because I was really confused by that part in the books.

And, yeah, it bugged me that they showed What the hell?


But.. Theon has a lot to do with Reek. I assume they will still do that because it is a major thing that happens to his character.

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