prequels: Gotham & Pennyworth (tv show)

[MissyPink]

Gotham started at last, on Fox back in 2014 and concluded in 2019 but it seems a prequel series of Gotham was released on Epix named Pennyworth.


After all the wait, did any one else find it a little to be a let down by Gotham? Or was it just me.
Jim Gordon: good looking and a good actor just did not look or feel like him. Just seem like a good cop trying to do right in the city.
Plus the age difference seems a little distorted. All the other cops are their normal age and it's cool to see them all there but just feels odd.

I did love the city, Gotham city had the right feel and look but that was the only thing that I felt like I could cling to as truly right.

I will say I liked Montoya and Nygma I know everyone else talking about the show never said anything about what they thought of them. I am putting it out there here.

Thought on Cobblepot question I did not love him as much as every else seems to. I have nothing against him.

Maybe it was just too many character all being thrown out and being fit into the small time space.
Hoping next week will be better. I am going to give it a chance and not write it off after only the Pilot.



People's thought now, season 1 compared to season 2, season 3 and season 4 and the last year started, season 5 leading up to the show finally.
How could DC let Supergirl be on at the same time as Gotham last year? If they are trying to build something, they should not be competing with it's self.
Now Gotham is airing on a new night on Fox. We can see if it makes sence here.



As of March 2018 it seems that Gotham is not be the only DC's prequel show. Krypton starts at last. Any thoughts? if it will captivate fans also?



On the other hand, as of summer of 2019 we meet go back in time again with prequel Pennyworth. Maybe not having to wait long helped. At least for me, in the first episode it does not disappoint.

Any thoughts by anyone? Lets all look forward to many more years chatting in here. If anyone else is watching Pennyworth on Epix.
All the new fans who might find the show now. 2022 it switched to HBO streaming service!
For me Pennyworth is worth watching if one has not started yet.
Alfred Pennyworth: He is cute looking. It is hard to picture him young. Personality does feel believable which is nice.

Thomas and Martha Wayne: They look right. Have not gotten to know them. It does feel like they will both be nothing like we expect.

Esme Winikus: Alfred's love interest, not sure how I feel. I do have a few feelings of what might happen to her after meeting her.

"Dave Boy" and "Bazza": Whom are Alfred's 2 army pals and I come to always look forward to.

Alfred's parents: I do hope they get to hang around. Just having them seems to give an other side to him as a character.
I do hope Alfred's father does not get given a new name. It seems he use to be Jarvis.

Then the villain. There is a bumpy road, and not sure anyone can guess where it will lead us.

[MissyPink]

Got answers, just not here.

I guess I am chatting here http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/entertainment-discussion/gotham-it-s-finally-here/t.93677471/ Unless any one else does start to talk here about the show.

I know I am not the only one who watched. I am interesting chatting.
Or can just wait for next week's show,

Online article for all who may want to read.

Just something amusing, on a side note. Even if Gothan's young Bruce Wayne did not make the list, since he has not yet grown up to become batman. http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/09/17/ranking-the-live-action-batman

Who has been keeping up with what the new episodes might bring?
http://tvweb.com/gotham-season-4-penguin-vs-riddler-fight/
Have not gotten to read it all. I am excited for what is to come.

https://mic.com/articles/174347/will-harvey-dent-return-to-gotham-nicholas-d-agosto-gives-update-on-the-future-two-face

Edit: March 2018
Just a new link for anyone to read if they want. It seems the who is really Joker is still up for debate.
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/will-the-real-gotham-joker-please-stand-up

Just something new for fans to read. As the writers of the show look to the 5th and finally year on the air. https://tvweb.com/gotham-batman-zero-year-season-5/ I do wonder how close it will be.

Even if this is about the cross over in the Arrowverse. Are the gears in motion to have Gotham soon as the show goes off?
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/who-is-batwoman-the-new-cw-crossover-character?li_source=LI&li_medium=wikia-impactfooter
http://ew.com/tv/2018/05/17/cw-superhero-crossover-batwoman/
I do wonder how much it will in fact look anything like Gotham if they brought the show into their "Arrow Universe" especially visually.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/dc-tv-watch-8-burning-questions-for-gotham-season-5/ar-BBLN4I7
Any questions left off the list. These are things that need to be covered.

https://www.cbr.com/gotham-season-5-premiere-tabitha-galavan-death/
Thing started up again. This is a little of a spoiler.

https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/01/24/gotham-jim-and-barbara-together-season-5/
Took years, this relationship has at last come full circle. Just an article on the facts of that love story.
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/01/24/gotham-selina-stabs-jeremiah-ruin-spoilers/
Just another little read from the other plot of 01/24 episode. The show does not seem to know the meaning of dead.

Should the show Gotham be connected to the DC EU movies? Here is an interesting link. Now that Ben Affleck is officially out, it talks about people who come fill the role. At the very top to start the count down off is David Mazouz whom is Bruce Wayne, https://movieweb.com/the-batman-actors-replace-ben-affleck/?fbclid=IwAR1_w4tvbg4CX77FZTxPnZgGc_mTmNoJaYkv5EEeMltR9BRtr57zR-Wj9f4 I do like #1 in the list.

https://tvweb.com/gotham-season-5-trailer-extended/?fbclid=IwAR1aEiW5vUZw7TNeUkb5TVWZFlBNcMPtMQO7kL2xWgqIhlP9i55jHvakn0s

jim-and-barbara-together
Took years, this relationship has at last come full circle. Just an article on the facts of that love story.
jeremiah-ruin-spoilers
Just another little read from the other plot of 01/24 episode. The show does not seem to know the meaning of dead.

Much talk was always about Joker. So quench the debate. Just adding this link here.
The True Joker Finally Arrives, Series Finale Trailer


https://tvweb.com/gotham-series-finale-lack-of-batman/?fbclid=IwAR1N8rYBQmP7fL1V_Y1yeqnEs_xBBHdjFw2j5X6puxaMlKCPQy18bpWH39k
The talk of the lack of seeing much batman in Gotham

This might be a random link. For a laugh I am adding it. It might be more fun for a Potter fan.
https://screenrant.com/gotham-characters-sorted-hogwarts-houses/

As of Summer of 2019 Pennyworth has started.
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/07/27/pennyworth-creators-explain-gritty-tone-alfred-batman-backstory/

Pennyworth plot development. Oct 2020
https://www.thewrap.com/pennyworth-thomas-wayne-engaged-martha-kane-ben-aldridge/

Pennyworth plot artical
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/pennyworth-season-2-plot-reveal-thomas-wayne-gets-engaged-but-not-to-martha-kane-video/ar-BB19Vjeu

screenrant 3-gotham-Jerome-Valeska-reference titans


pennyworth to hbo-max

[MissyPink]

Sorry, had do this. Even if it is really odd. I felt funny if it was just a page of us chatting there.

Loki Mischief God

MissyPink

Loki Mischief God

No, I completely get what you're saying because I've thought about it all in my head. The choices they've made don't make perfect sense, at all, but I'm kind of just in a place where I'm accepting what they've created it and I did enjoying a good bit of what being put out for what it is, I guess? I can definitely see it's flaws but I'm still looking forward to seeing what it produces and hoping it's a fun series regardless of questionable things. It didn't bore me and I wasn't offended, so it's a good sign.

One thing I wasn't particularly fond of was the fact it didn't seem to end on much of a cliff hanger, which tends to be a good choice for TV shows. Just a minor nit-pick, however.

Ivy's name really was annoying though. I heard a possible rumor/spoiler that

She's going to be adopted by the Isley family and her name will be changed.

but I have NO IDEA if this is true or not. It still sounds horribly silly, anyway.

I will stand by you on that one. It did not bore or offend me. Just discouraged me.
Why did you think it should end on a cliff hanger?

Yes, the Poison Ivy as a kid was one of my 2 big thing I just could not brush off and let go. It sounded worse then silly. It sounded like the writer had something against the name Pam and just did not care.

Ah, I didn't think it ended terribly, but I think a cliff hanger would have been a nice way to hook people to it a bit better. Just a personal preference on this one. I just got this strange feeling that it should have had one.

Yeah, I totally agree and her name was AWKWARD. Ivy Pepper just sounds... bad. I'm not sure how they're going to play her, to be honest. I guess we'll find out?

I think with cop shows and stuff a concussion (aka the happy ending) which in batman is never too happy but an ending either way can be nice. Something to say the cops did their job.
Would you have rather it ending with Jim Gordon having to pick which way to handle the kill or be killed situation?
Or what would your cliff hanger be?
I have a feeling you have thought about it.

[Loki Mischief God]

MissyPink

Sorry, had do this. Even if it is really odd. I felt funny if it was just a page of us chatting there.

Loki Mischief God

MissyPink

Loki Mischief God

No, I completely get what you're saying because I've thought about it all in my head. The choices they've made don't make perfect sense, at all, but I'm kind of just in a place where I'm accepting what they've created it and I did enjoying a good bit of what being put out for what it is, I guess? I can definitely see it's flaws but I'm still looking forward to seeing what it produces and hoping it's a fun series regardless of questionable things. It didn't bore me and I wasn't offended, so it's a good sign.

One thing I wasn't particularly fond of was the fact it didn't seem to end on much of a cliff hanger, which tends to be a good choice for TV shows. Just a minor nit-pick, however.

Ivy's name really was annoying though. I heard a possible rumor/spoiler that

She's going to be adopted by the Isley family and her name will be changed.

but I have NO IDEA if this is true or not. It still sounds horribly silly, anyway.

I will stand by you on that one. It did not bore or offend me. Just discouraged me.
Why did you think it should end on a cliff hanger?

Yes, the Poison Ivy as a kid was one of my 2 big thing I just could not brush off and let go. It sounded worse then silly. It sounded like the writer had something against the name Pam and just did not care.

Ah, I didn't think it ended terribly, but I think a cliff hanger would have been a nice way to hook people to it a bit better. Just a personal preference on this one. I just got this strange feeling that it should have had one.

Yeah, I totally agree and her name was AWKWARD. Ivy Pepper just sounds... bad. I'm not sure how they're going to play her, to be honest. I guess we'll find out?

I think with cop shows and stuff a concussion (aka the happy ending) which in batman is never too happy but an ending either way can be nice. Something to say the cops did their job.
Would you have rather it ending with Jim Gordon having to pick which way to handle the kill or be killed situation?
Or what would your cliff hanger be?
I have a feeling you have thought about it.

Nah, I don't think something too dramatic was needed but I just feel like something could have been done to hook the next episode a little more (Though to be honest, I think the preview sort of did that for me but not everyone watches those). Just a minor thing I noticed that some shows do, that I felt like it was missing. Just a personal preference that I'm not going to argue that much because I did enjoy the show. smile I don't have many personal ideas (Best I don't get into that because I'm currently being medicated for a back injury haha - but I'm not a show writer anyway and I still think they did a good job overall)

[Strawberry Pandalaura]

I rather enjoyed it. But I do agree, having all the characters thrown at you at once and trying to place them with what they give you is a bit overwhelming. But I wouldn't say I was disappointed.
My thoughts are staying in this realm: these characters haven't filled into their full potential yet. So their origins are going to be a bit muddled until they become said villain. The show is to show how this characters were before they became Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, etc.
I have high hopes that when the show progresses the pieces will fit together much better. And I personally live their choice in Gordon. Because right now, when the Wayne murder took place, he was a rookie cop. He wasn't the seasoned and wiser Commissioner Gordon. And I live Gordon, but everyone starts off as a rookie and it's gonna be amazing to watch his character grow into the Commissioner.

[Loki Mischief God]

Strawberry Pandalaura

I rather enjoyed it. But I do agree, having all the characters thrown at you at once and trying to place them with what they give you is a bit overwhelming. But I wouldn't say I was disappointed.
My thoughts are staying in this realm: these characters haven't filled into their full potential yet. So their origins are going to be a bit muddled until they become said villain. The show is to show how this characters were before they became Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, etc.
I have high hopes that when the show progresses the pieces will fit together much better. And I personally live their choice in Gordon. Because right now, when the Wayne murder took place, he was a rookie cop. He wasn't the seasoned and wiser Commissioner Gordon. And I live Gordon, but everyone starts off as a rookie and it's gonna be amazing to watch his character grow into the Commissioner.

This.
This is pretty close to how I'm feeling right now. Well said!

[Strawberry Pandalaura]

Loki Mischief God

Strawberry Pandalaura

I rather enjoyed it. But I do agree, having all the characters thrown at you at once and trying to place them with what they give you is a bit overwhelming. But I wouldn't say I was disappointed.
My thoughts are staying in this realm: these characters haven't filled into their full potential yet. So their origins are going to be a bit muddled until they become said villain. The show is to show how this characters were before they became Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, etc.
I have high hopes that when the show progresses the pieces will fit together much better. And I personally live their choice in Gordon. Because right now, when the Wayne murder took place, he was a rookie cop. He wasn't the seasoned and wiser Commissioner Gordon. And I live Gordon, but everyone starts off as a rookie and it's gonna be amazing to watch his character grow into the Commissioner.

This.
This is pretty close to how I'm feeling right now. Well said!

Hehe thank you whee

[Loki Mischief God]

Strawberry Pandalaura

Loki Mischief God

Strawberry Pandalaura

I rather enjoyed it. But I do agree, having all the characters thrown at you at once and trying to place them with what they give you is a bit overwhelming. But I wouldn't say I was disappointed.
My thoughts are staying in this realm: these characters haven't filled into their full potential yet. So their origins are going to be a bit muddled until they become said villain. The show is to show how this characters were before they became Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, etc.
I have high hopes that when the show progresses the pieces will fit together much better. And I personally live their choice in Gordon. Because right now, when the Wayne murder took place, he was a rookie cop. He wasn't the seasoned and wiser Commissioner Gordon. And I live Gordon, but everyone starts off as a rookie and it's gonna be amazing to watch his character grow into the Commissioner.

This.
This is pretty close to how I'm feeling right now. Well said!

Hehe thank you whee

No problem. That's actually almost dead on what I've been thinking, so nicely put haha. biggrin

[Strawberry Pandalaura]

Loki Mischief God

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this!
I'm really exciting about a series based on the Gotham origins of everyone. And I know there's gonna be a lot of skepticism because fans will see the characters and immediately get defensive and all "that's not right! that's nothing like the character!" But we have to remember that even villains were regular people and had regular lives before whatever happened to make then into the psychotic troublemakers we love.
My only advice would be to fans is to be patient, a show like this will need time and there will be quite a bit of build up before we start to see those characters for what we recognize. So we should just enjoy the dance.

[Loki Mischief God]

Strawberry Pandalaura

Loki Mischief God

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this!
I'm really exciting about a series based on the Gotham origins of everyone. And I know there's gonna be a lot of skepticism because fans will see the characters and immediately get defensive and all "that's not right! that's nothing like the character!" But we have to remember that even villains were regular people and had regular lives before whatever happened to make then into the psychotic troublemakers we love.
My only advice would be to fans is to be patient, a show like this will need time and there will be quite a bit of build up before we start to see those characters for what we recognize. So we should just enjoy the dance.

Exactly!
I still have criticisms naturally, but at the same time I'm very lenient and enjoyed the show because it was a good pilot and I do like the concept. Plus it WAS a pilot. A lot of shows need time to grow into themselves and I think it already had a good start. And with the concept it had, you need to suspend your disbelief for certain things (Like the ages being sort of weird) in order for the show to work.
I totally agree with you.

[Strawberry Pandalaura]

Loki Mischief God

Strawberry Pandalaura

Loki Mischief God

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this!
I'm really exciting about a series based on the Gotham origins of everyone. And I know there's gonna be a lot of skepticism because fans will see the characters and immediately get defensive and all "that's not right! that's nothing like the character!" But we have to remember that even villains were regular people and had regular lives before whatever happened to make then into the psychotic troublemakers we love.
My only advice would be to fans is to be patient, a show like this will need time and there will be quite a bit of build up before we start to see those characters for what we recognize. So we should just enjoy the dance.

Exactly!
I still have criticisms naturally, but at the same time I'm very lenient and enjoyed the show because it was a good pilot and I do like the concept. Plus it WAS a pilot. A lot of shows need time to grow into themselves and I think it already had a good start. And with the concept it had, you need to suspend your disbelief for certain things (Like the ages being sort of weird) in order for the show to work.
I totally agree with you.

THANK YOU!
I mean, seriously, it's the first episode, let's not burn the sets. And of course ages are going to be a bit strange cause they're working around Bruce being a child and trying yo center around that even though their focus is primarily Gordon at the moment.
I'm actually really excited about the younger Catwoman sneaks cause I adore Batman/Catwoman. One of my all time favorite pairings.

[Loki Mischief God]

Strawberry Pandalaura

Loki Mischief God

Strawberry Pandalaura

Loki Mischief God

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this!
I'm really exciting about a series based on the Gotham origins of everyone. And I know there's gonna be a lot of skepticism because fans will see the characters and immediately get defensive and all "that's not right! that's nothing like the character!" But we have to remember that even villains were regular people and had regular lives before whatever happened to make then into the psychotic troublemakers we love.
My only advice would be to fans is to be patient, a show like this will need time and there will be quite a bit of build up before we start to see those characters for what we recognize. So we should just enjoy the dance.

Exactly!
I still have criticisms naturally, but at the same time I'm very lenient and enjoyed the show because it was a good pilot and I do like the concept. Plus it WAS a pilot. A lot of shows need time to grow into themselves and I think it already had a good start. And with the concept it had, you need to suspend your disbelief for certain things (Like the ages being sort of weird) in order for the show to work.
I totally agree with you.

THANK YOU!
I mean, seriously, it's the first episode, let's not burn the sets. And of course ages are going to be a bit strange cause they're working around Bruce being a child and trying yo center around that even though their focus is primarily Gordon at the moment.
I'm actually really excited about the younger Catwoman sneaks cause I adore Batman/Catwoman. One of my all time favorite pairings.

Yes! I totally get it.
I actually love a lot of their actor/actress choices too. And I think if they made correct age ranges they might have lost out with casting or the show might actually have gone in a completely different direction than they wanted (And hey it might end up being completely amazing, we've only seen the pilot!)

And I love the casting choices for Bruce and Selina. I think they're both pretty perfect, so I can't wait for more of them. <3

[Captain Talavar]

Strawberry Pandalaura

And I know there's gonna be a lot of skepticism because fans will see the characters and immediately get defensive and all "that's not right! that's nothing like the character!" But we have to remember that even villains were regular people and had regular lives before whatever happened to make then into the psychotic troublemakers we love.

That's not the point. The point is that the timeline becomes a jumbled mess when characters like Edward Nygma start their criminal careers before Bruce is even old enough to drive a car. The only one who makes any sense is Oswald Cobblepot because these day's he's generally depicted as being significantly older than Batman anyway and is already an established figure in the criminal underworld.

But the Riddler? That's another story. And Selina Kyle is practically already a mini Catwoman even as a little kid. And I've heard they want to tease a different potential Joker in every episode. Do they really think the Joker should be that much older than him too?

This is a problem because it seriously undermines the point of Batman and his heroism. If Gordon takes on all of Batman's foes while he's still just a kid growing up, then Batman's unnecessary. On the other hand if they wait until after Batman appears for these characters to become villains, then it implies that Batman is actually making it worse.

In order for a Batman story to work, we have to believe that Gotham City needs him, and if he's unnecessary or just making things worse, then there's a serious issue.

[Strawberry Pandalaura]

Captain Talavar

Strawberry Pandalaura

And I know there's gonna be a lot of skepticism because fans will see the characters and immediately get defensive and all "that's not right! that's nothing like the character!" But we have to remember that even villains were regular people and had regular lives before whatever happened to make then into the psychotic troublemakers we love.

That's not the point. The point is that the timeline becomes a jumbled mess when characters like Edward Nygma start their criminal careers before Bruce is even old enough to drive a car. The only one who makes any sense is Oswald Cobblepot because these day's he's generally depicted as being significantly older than Batman anyway and is already an established figure in the criminal underworld.

But the Riddler? That's another story. And Selina Kyle is practically already a mini Catwoman even as a little kid. And I've heard they want to tease a different potential Joker in every episode. Do they really think the Joker should be that much older than him too?

This is a problem because it seriously undermines the point of Batman and his heroism. If Gordon takes on all of Batman's foes while he's still just a kid growing up, then Batman's unnecessary. On the other hand if they wait until after Batman appears for these characters to become villains, then it implies that Batman is actually making it worse.

In order for a Batman story to work, we have to believe that Gotham City needs him, and if he's unnecessary or just making things worse, then there's a serious issue.

Again, it's only the pilot. And Nygma's not a villain yet. He works at the police department, when he became "Riddler" he was working for Wayne Corporation, so there are still years before Riddler will actually step forth as a villain.
As for Catwoman, I'm not surprised she's already thieving, it's a well none fact that Selina had a record and was even in Juvie at 14, so they have her pretty spot on. But you have to remember that most of Batman's villains are a little older than him, quite a bit of them were established criminals before Batman came along.

[Captain Talavar]

Strawberry Pandalaura

Again, it's only the pilot. And Nygma's not a villain yet. He works at the police department, when he became "Riddler" he was working for Wayne Corporation, so there are still years before Riddler will actually step forth as a villain.

Please tell me the movies aren't your only frame of reference.

Quote:

As for Catwoman, I'm not surprised she's already thieving, it's a well none fact that Selina had a record and was even in Juvie at 14, so they have her pretty spot on.

Except she's not 14 yet, nor has she had enough time to be as skilled as she is. She's already almost fully formed!

Quote:

But you have to remember that most of Batman's villains are a little older than him, quite a bit of them were established criminals before Batman came along.

Umm...no, not really. The only one that was really established beforehand was Penguin.

Joker,
Poison Ivy,
Mr. Freeze,
Clayface,
Two-Face,
Riddler,
Scarecrow,
Killer Croc,
Hush,
Hugo Strange;

With the exception of Mr. Freeze, Hugo Strange, and maaaybe Scarecrow, none of them were significantly older than Bruce, and none of them were established criminals before Batman showed up except for perhaps Catwoman, who was never actually Catwoman until afterward. For at least the first year or so of Batman's career he exclusively fought gangsters and normal criminals. The two big exceptions are Penguin, who generally is depicted as being older and as an established criminal beforehand, and Ra's Al Ghul, who is kind of a special case as he doesn't really resemble the street level criminals Batman's typically up against.