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The Wrong Demon
A Moment Past No Return

No, you are completely right about that, I've even seen as young as 5 playing it. However it is targeted to about 12 to 16. Younger and older do play it but that is about the majority who play it. Actually that age is the majority of people that play most FPS games.
Indeed, and the unfortunate truth that started it all is for the means of money and higher sales, no matter who play

Yeah but the game industry started veering in that direction a while ago. Back even up to about the middle of the PS2 they still made games with gamers in mind because it still wasn't a corporation mentality. They still had to make games that gripped us and gave us the want and the need to play it. Now they just expect us to buy it even if it's crap.
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A Moment Past No Return
The Wrong Demon
A Moment Past No Return

No, you are completely right about that, I've even seen as young as 5 playing it. However it is targeted to about 12 to 16. Younger and older do play it but that is about the majority who play it. Actually that age is the majority of people that play most FPS games.
Indeed, and the unfortunate truth that started it all is for the means of money and higher sales, no matter who play

Yeah but the game industry started veering in that direction a while ago. Back even up to about the middle of the PS2 they still made games with gamers in mind because it still wasn't a corporation mentality. They still had to make games that gripped us and gave us the want and the need to play it. Now they just expect us to buy it even if it's crap.
I agree, this was a good discussion sir, well done on the choice of topic
The Wrong Demon
I agree, this was a good discussion sir, well done on the choice of topic

Why thank you, I've quite enjoyed this discussion as well.
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Minak0
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Minak0
Quite a few visual novels have game elements. Phoenix Wright. 999. Tomoyo After. Little Busters. I dunno. I already swore to dump gaming after this gen closes. I refuse to put money on a console without games I like. It is like adapt and blow money, or don't adapt and save. I think I like money moreso.

Why not try out some new games then? I mean there is a reason why they're so popular so maybe if you gave them a try, you'd like them just as much as many other people do?


I don't care if they are popular. I have tried games. I have tried the Killzone 2 demo, even before then, I knew I hated FPS games, and it didn't make a difference. I got uncharted 2 for free, and I am not getting Uncharted 3 unless I win it off of that Subway game. I loved Warhawk, so I will be getting Starhawk....

Just because games are popular does not mean everyone will, and does like them. Hell, Killzone, Halo, Call of Duty, Bulletstorm, Home Front, Crysis, Left 4 Dead..... every FPS game looks the same to me, in a different setting. I can't get into that. I want stories, I want color in my games. I want characters to like. I want to SEE my characters. I want the game to be fun for me, and I want to explore in my games. Little to none of that are offered in most FPS games these days, and for that, I hate them. .... and to top it off, the FPS view makes me seriously sick..... like, not disgusted.... more like "toss your cookies" sick.


I'm not saying you should like a game because it's popular. I'm saying that there is a reason a game is popular.. usually because it's "good" and probably worth giving it a try.

I understand that you want a game with story, but games aren't just about the story. Sometimes it comes down to just mindless fun. The whole point of games for years was only about the game play. Story and good characters were a luxury and are taken for granted these days. Besides, some of those games you listed actually have a story, and a really good one, if you took the time to see that instead of labeling them as all the same.

Saying that every FPS looks the same, but in a different setting, people can say the same about Japanese RPGs or Sandbox games. That's the entire point of why we have genres in the first place. The game play and mechanics are similar but each game is unique.

And why list only FPS? There are plenty of other genres out there with great stories and aren't FPS. What about The Elder Scrolls or Mass Effect? What about Assassin's Creed or Zelda? What about Saints Row or Grand Theft Auto or Red Dead Redemption? Or hell, try some little games that are cheaper ($20) like Castle Crashers or LIMBO.

I'm not trying to start anything with you, because in the end, it's your own loss for not being more open minded and giving things a chance or giving up so easily, not mine. No hair off my back. The only reason I bother to question individuals like yourself is because it would be nice to see more girl gamers being as well rounded as guy gamers, but usually, that's not the case.
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A Moment Past No Return
jettisoned corpse


I'm not sure if New Vegas was a particularly buggy game in comparison to other Bethesda games but with my own experience with Bethesda (Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas) and the types of games they make (Huge open world RPGs), it is to be expected that those types of games will have several issues.

I mean think about a game like Fallout 3 in comparison to something like Call of Duty. Most FPS are on a limited path and load individual levels. You usually can't stray from that path (such as going to that mountain you see in the far distance, it's just background scenery, whereas, you know, that in a game like Fallout or Oblivion, if you see a mountain, you can go to it and climb it).

The typical FPS only has to worry about you, what weapons you have, the enemy AI, and the section of the level you are currently on, so it only loads those segments at a time.

Think of it like resources. Both games get 100 resources. An FPS can put 50-60% in graphics, maybe 30% in AI, and the rest can go towards loading (bodies, scenery, how much can be on the screen at one time before s**t starts slowing down). But Fallout is HUGE. You might spend 7 hours on a FPS campaign but over 100 in Fallout. They have SO much to keep track of. The world loads huge sections at once all around you (reason for graphics not being as good as the FPS).

For example, they always say that Racing games and Fighting games will usually show off the very best graphics the system can do because those games don't have to load a lot at once so they can focus on putting all their resources into how good the game looks.

I guess what I am trying to say is, games like Fallout are too huge for their own good. I expect to see a Rad Scorpion spawn inside of a rock or the AI to be so stupid it runs at me in a straight path getting stuck up on rocks and wont go around to get at me. I expect there to be huge bugs because the game is 100+ hours long that the developer couldn't POSSIBLY find every single little issue in the game, no matter how much they tested. You and I and the thousands of people who buy the game will play it in a million unique ways that the developer could have never predicted.

That is why you make a TON of save files so if something screws up your game, you can go back. I use up ever single damn slot they give me and during dungeons, I sometimes save every 10 minutes or after I do something major so if it crashes or glitches, I don't have to go back that far. This is entirely expected.

Thing is, Bethesda knows this and does their best to fix the issues as soon as possible. I had a serious bug happen to me in Fallout 3 where Megaton would freeze every time I approached the city from the front door. So I fast traveled inside Megaton to access my house and sell s**t but when I exited out the front door, it would freeze at the loading screen. This was like this for well over a month but Bethesda fixed the bug and my game was perfect again and I continued playing after that.

And yeah.. going back to the E3 part of all of this, haha. I do agree the surprises were lacking this year. I even hoped (stupidly) that Valve would announce Half-Life 3. I never even got into those games but a little bit, I just feel bad for the hardcore fans who have waited so long.

Alright let me elaborate on what I meant. The glitches and bugs in Fallout 3 and Bethesda's other titles are usually forgivable and you do expect them to have an issue here or there. When New Vegas was released it was literally plagued with so many issues that it was almost unplayable. NPC's heads would randomly starting spinning in a circular motion, NPC's that were important to the story would disappear from the game, randomly attack you and be hostile for the rest of the game for no reason, or drop dead randomly for no reason at all and this happened to me and a few friends more than once during the game making it impossible to complete. It would and still does to this day freeze about every 2 hours so you have to restart your console. I mean when I say the game was broken, I don't mean it had an issue every once in awhile. When I say broken I literally mean unplayable. It was just plagued with bugs and glitches.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not just gripping because I have to revert to an earlier save once in awhile, but when I have to do it every 30 minutes, yeah that is unacceptable. I also know exactly how the system's and games work. I work with computers and consoles all the time (fixing them, modding them, writing software) so I know as well as anybody that games like that can't be prefect, but when it's that bad it is just downright unacceptable.


That is odd. I haven't finished New Vegas but I did play it for quite a lot of hours and I never encountered any of the problems you're talking about. Granted, I picked up the game about a month after its release, if I can remember correctly so perhaps by then, Bethesda released a ton of patches. I also played on the 360 if that makes any difference.

I expect Skyrim to have a bunch of bugs on release, too. I know Bethesda uses us for their main bug testing which sure, it does get annoying, but I understand why they do it. Their audience is big enough to test better than any amount of testers they could hire. And at least they fix the problems the best they can. Have you tried giving New Vegas another chance? Or did you already finish the game?
Yea i think it was a major let down.... the Wii U was just sad to me i didn't get it
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jettisoned corpse
Minak0
jettisoned corpse
Minak0
Quite a few visual novels have game elements. Phoenix Wright. 999. Tomoyo After. Little Busters. I dunno. I already swore to dump gaming after this gen closes. I refuse to put money on a console without games I like. It is like adapt and blow money, or don't adapt and save. I think I like money moreso.

Why not try out some new games then? I mean there is a reason why they're so popular so maybe if you gave them a try, you'd like them just as much as many other people do?


I don't care if they are popular. I have tried games. I have tried the Killzone 2 demo, even before then, I knew I hated FPS games, and it didn't make a difference. I got uncharted 2 for free, and I am not getting Uncharted 3 unless I win it off of that Subway game. I loved Warhawk, so I will be getting Starhawk....

Just because games are popular does not mean everyone will, and does like them. Hell, Killzone, Halo, Call of Duty, Bulletstorm, Home Front, Crysis, Left 4 Dead..... every FPS game looks the same to me, in a different setting. I can't get into that. I want stories, I want color in my games. I want characters to like. I want to SEE my characters. I want the game to be fun for me, and I want to explore in my games. Little to none of that are offered in most FPS games these days, and for that, I hate them. .... and to top it off, the FPS view makes me seriously sick..... like, not disgusted.... more like "toss your cookies" sick.


I'm not saying you should like a game because it's popular. I'm saying that there is a reason a game is popular.. usually because it's "good" and probably worth giving it a try.

I understand that you want a game with story, but games aren't just about the story. Sometimes it comes down to just mindless fun. The whole point of games for years was only about the game play. Story and good characters were a luxury and are taken for granted these days. Besides, some of those games you listed actually have a story, and a really good one, if you took the time to see that instead of labeling them as all the same.

Saying that every FPS looks the same, but in a different setting, people can say the same about Japanese RPGs or Sandbox games. That's the entire point of why we have genres in the first place. The game play and mechanics are similar but each game is unique.

And why list only FPS? There are plenty of other genres out there with great stories and aren't FPS. What about The Elder Scrolls or Mass Effect? What about Assassin's Creed or Zelda? What about Saints Row or Grand Theft Auto or Red Dead Redemption? Or hell, try some little games that are cheaper ($20) like Castle Crashers or LIMBO.

I'm not trying to start anything with you, because in the end, it's your own loss for not being more open minded and giving things a chance or giving up so easily, not mine. No hair off my back. The only reason I bother to question individuals like yourself is because it would be nice to see more girl gamers being as well rounded as guy gamers, but usually, that's not the case.


I don't mind mindless fun games, but there is pretty much none of those anymore that I can consider "mindless fun". To be frank with you, I am someone who likes alot of ground to be covered. I like exploring, finding new places, I like level layouts. The way zones and games look and the content the ground offers is my biggest love with games.... but I want story too. It is exactly why I want visual novels to release.... because they focus 100% on the story.

The reason I point at FPS games is because of a few reasons really. A: being, they "Are" the "popular" game genre as you spoke of earlier. B: That is exactly how I see them, since my brother is a FPS-nut, all he gets are Call of Duty games, among many other FPS games. He has called me into his room from time to time to show me stuff, and I say the same thing each time "How is this different from the last game you shown me?".... he can't ever answer. =/....

I can take many genres.... I am willing to play anything that isn't a sports game, a sandbox game, a FPS game, or a racing game. FPS, I have explained enough. Sports, I just don't like sports at all. Sandbox do sort of similar to FPS games..... they get me sort of sick (Brother used to play GTA all the time before this FPS fad kicked in on consoles.....made me sick too) and racing.... I just cannot do. Anything else, I really have little to no issues with to be honest. Also, trust me, I am pretty "well-rounded"... I mean, I play games from Little Big Planet to Uncharted. From 2D Side scrollers to 3D mech games.... From Katamari to Deception.... I definitely have a wide variety and taste in games. I just don't happen to like anything that is popular over here by coincidence, that is all.


Also, I have more reasons in the end I just want to stop. I have had a very long run with gaming....heck, I have been playing since I was like....4 or so. I just see no reason to go on if I have nothing good to look at in the future.
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A Moment Past No Return
Nintendo announced the Wii U which sadly seems to be just another gimmicky console which makes me sad because I remember when Nintendo ruled the industry.


Just a quick point, I totally get where you're coming from with this, but I'd like to point out that Nintendo specifically stated that the Wii U would not be a console, but an accessory to the console. Which also caused a lot of confusion with the rumors of Project Cafe and whether or not it was Project Cafe or not, and yes, they should have clarified this instead of leaving people confused.

And as far as ruling the industry, Nintendo still does in my opinion. They still come out with most of the newest advances in the technology, and they're starting to bring in a lot of the exclusive third-party members that had previously only worked for Microsoft and Sony publishers. As far as I'm concerned, it's turning into a new era of gaming where they're really trying to reach out to everyone, and they're doing it.

And to be honest, I think the Wii U is brilliant. Yes, it might be a sorry excuse to make up for the Wii's incapability for higher resolutions and more detail, but how many times have you wanted to play a game, but someone else wanted to watch something - and you didn't have the time to unhook your system and move it into another room? Or you didn't want to unhook your console and move it into another room to keep playing? And as far as the Wii U goes, it basically is every accessory to the Wii in one bundle with the addition of a DS touchscreen in upgrade to the Wii Draw accessory.
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When graphics were crappy they made up for it with amazing storylines and games actually had a well-rounded plot. But now that graphics have improved I guess people stopped giving a crap about the actual substance of games and just focus on appearance. I'm not going to say I haven't found any games that are appealing and fun, but many games focus on the first and not the latter.
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E3 is a let-down for at least a few people EVERY year, so what's your point?XD
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I personally thought E3 was pretty good. Maybe it's because I don't look up new titles on the computer so everything was new to me. I can't wait for the Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and I'm still saving for a 3DS and Ocarina of Time 3D. I also have sort of low standards for pretty much everything so I'm easily impressed razz
smashbrolink
E3 is a let-down for at least a few people EVERY year, so what's your point?XD

I'm not even going to justify your obviously retarded rhetorical question with an answer. If you would have bothered to read even a quarter of the conversations in this thread you would realize that the issues discussed on this page traverse much more than just E3 being a 'letdown' and I've repeated myself at least 3 times to different people. So please get your 12 year old mentality off this page until your ready to actually read and or bring discussion to the table. Thanks......children....what do you expect?
Guild MasterX2
I personally thought E3 was pretty good. Maybe it's because I don't look up new titles on the computer so everything was new to me. I can't wait for the Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and I'm still saving for a 3DS and Ocarina of Time 3D. I also have sort of low standards for pretty much everything so I'm easily impressed razz

See this is coming from someone who is very involved in the community. I get a monthly subscription to gameinformer. I used to work at gamestop so my coworkers from there always inform me on updates coming in on various forums and websites.I get almost all gaming magazines and I watch a lot of G4 (well the gaming shows anyways....I do miss when G4 stood for gaming instead of Goodole'realitytv). So I am usually one of the first to find out about a lot of new stuff and everything at E3 (at least 9/10's of it) was released WAY before hand. So I was disappointed that nothing new was announced. They usually have at least two or three titles/consoles that are huge surprising announcements and this year there was none of that.
Cute Puppydog11
When graphics were crappy they made up for it with amazing storylines and games actually had a well-rounded plot. But now that graphics have improved I guess people stopped giving a crap about the actual substance of games and just focus on appearance. I'm not going to say I haven't found any games that are appealing and fun, but many games focus on the first and not the latter.

EXACTLY!!!! You get a star and a half. You are the first person other than myself who has brought this up and to be honest couldn't have said it better myself. The gaming industry is at an impasse and it is declining very quickly.
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A Moment Past No Return
smashbrolink
E3 is a let-down for at least a few people EVERY year, so what's your point?XD

I'm not even going to justify your obviously retarded rhetorical question with an answer. If you would have bothered to read even a quarter of the conversations in this thread you would realize that the issues discussed on this page traverse much more than just E3 being a 'letdown' and I've repeated myself at least 3 times to different people. So please get your 12 year old mentality off this page until your ready to actually read and or bring discussion to the table. Thanks......children....what do you expect?


Try taking your own advice, kid, as I probably out-rank you in age by several years.

You have yet to present any points that that have not been source complaints about the performance of one of the 3 companies at E3's in the past before. All of the issues discussed on this thread have been beaten like the dead horse they are a thousand, thousand times, and putting them in different context doesn't change that.

So, please, get your arrogant mentality back in line before you bother trying to point out faulty mentalities in others.

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