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Fujimi Senshi
Therefore it wouldn't matter what gender the population mass-regenerated into, and the Doctor may have come by a grandchild a number of ways, not all of which involve having much of a family.

On the other hand, one must consider that if the Doctor did have a family, most likely he was ostracized by them for interfering with time, and Susan was probably the only one who still cared for him at all.


The only stuff I know about that was writen was in the T.V. show. Now I wouldn't doubt they've gotten to the point where synthetic construction via cloning is possible though my point is that the NuWho is acting like The Doctor was never married, never had a family before, never had loved ones, even though he pretty much remembers everything else about his old lives. None of it even though the first and second doctor talked about it in a manner that implied only he was left.

When 11th doctor said "fear me, I've killed all of them." he did so in a way that implied not a single god damn gallefreyian mattered to him, like he completely forgot his family. So far Moffat has done a lot of work to set up River Song as the wife, and he has on multiple occasions shown the doctor is capable of crossing his own timeline without destroying everything, which implies to me that there should be a family in his future.

The problem is he can't go back to gallefrey to cross his own time line which means he has already had his family. The only reason he has one is because in the sixties a dirty old man wouldn't be caught dead with a young woman, alone, in a time machine without serious implications that are best avoided by saying they're related. There is also the possibility that his family began after leaving galefrey because the tardis said "I stole a timelord"

I don't know who's running this mess (Ha! Pun!) or if it's explained in the Virgin adventures or any other written cannon, but I know it was never explained in the show (in fact it's completely fouled up) and maybe that's something you can help me with.
LegionPothIX

The only stuff I know about that was writen was in the T.V. show. Now I wouldn't doubt they've gotten to the point where synthetic construction via cloning is possible though my point is that the NuWho is acting like The Doctor was never married, never had a family before, never had loved ones, even though he pretty much remembers everything else about his old lives. None of it even though the first and second doctor talked about it in a manner that implied only he was left.

When 11th doctor said "fear me, I've killed all of them." he did so in a way that implied not a single god damn gallefreyian mattered to him, like he completely forgot his family. So far Moffat has done a lot of work to set up River Song as the wife, and he has on multiple occasions shown the doctor is capable of crossing his own timeline without destroying everything, which implies to me that there should be a family in his future.

The problem is he can't go back to gallefrey to cross his own time line which means he has already had his family. The only reason he has one is because in the sixties a dirty old man wouldn't be caught dead with a young woman, alone, in a time machine without serious implications that are best avoided by saying they're related. There is also the possibility that his family began after leaving galefrey because the tardis said "I stole a timelord"

I don't know who's running this mess (Ha! Pun!) or if it's explained in the Virgin adventures or any other written cannon, but I know it was never explained in the show (in fact it's completely fouled up) and maybe that's something you can help me with.


like I said, I don't know what's canon or what's not, what I've understood and what I've twisted completely, but I do know that if the writers have always been like what they are now, they probably wrote the Doctor's history as they needed it. It's a bloody good thing it's such a wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey show, because I don't think any other fandom would've stood for this many incongruities.

Also, by the point of the Time War, I'm pretty stinking sure Susan is out of the picture *ahem, dead* and the fact that he doesn't seem to have any other family he regrets losing is one of the reasons why I think he (a) became Susan's grandfather via a method not involving traditional grandfatherhood at all, or (b) was completely and utterly ostracized by the rest of his family.
Fujimi Senshi
is one of the reasons why I think he (a) became Susan's grandfather via a method not involving traditional grandfatherhood at all, or (b) was completely and utterly ostracized by the rest of his family.


You make two fine points that I can't dispute, and for that I applaud you. It simply seems like, for how impressive people make Moffat out to be, he may have thought of these concerns, learning from star-trek and star-wars fandom. I feel like a couple of episodes done in the most recent NuWho were done very sloppily because the parts I pick out as inconsistent are loose threads that I don't know if they are going anywhere or not. I'm trying to be more open minded than I see our Sci-Fi cousins, because after all, whibbly-whobblly time travel.
LegionPothIX
It simply seems like, for how impressive people make Moffat out to be, he may have thought of these concerns, learning from star-trek and star-wars fandom. I feel like a couple of episodes done in the most recent NuWho were done very sloppily because the parts I pick out as inconsistent are loose threads that I don't know if they are going anywhere or not. I'm trying to be more open minded than I see our Sci-Fi cousins, because after all, whibbly-whobblly time travel.


I get the feeling, Moffat works toward very impressive season-long overarching story lines, but maybe doesn't care so much about 50 year old continuity or even holes in current episodes.
Don't get me wrong, I love Moffat, and he's certainly not the only writer at fault. There was a little slip up with the Jack Harkness revelation in Sound of Drums, and I believe RTD wrote that one.

But also, with Moffat, you've got to basically take notes on all loose threads, because likely as not it's actually a clue to the solution of another episode. He's the exact same way with BBC's Sherlock, and I feel that's a better show for him because there's very little about the canon of the character that he's not allowed to rewrite, so all you really see is the genius.

Edit: this is the bit I was talking about concerning Jack:
Eternal Raine's avatar

Romantic Citizen

Fujimi Senshi


Edit: this is the bit I was talking about concerning Jack:
[youtube][/youtube]
To the Sea! To the Sea!

This always confused me. Did Martha even meet the Face of Boe? Oh wait. She was in Gridlock. I always forget that one because I missed it when I originally bought the series. As far as the family, I'd always assumed that Susan had already been born. I mean, Ten even tells Rose that he "had a family once". I remember her having a slight freak out of "Ohmuhgawd, you're a daddy?!" proportions through facial expression. Don't remember the episode. So yeah, it confuses me when people act like Susan hasn't been born yet. Technically, she has. Just because she was born in the 24th (?) century doesn't mean she's born in the Doctors' future.

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Eternal Raine
]To the Sea! To the Sea!

This always confused me. Did Martha even meet the Face of Boe? Oh wait. She was in Gridlock. I always forget that one because I missed it when I originally bought the series. As far as the family, I'd always assumed that Susan had already been born. I mean, Ten even tells Rose that he "had a family once". I remember her having a slight freak out of "Ohmuhgawd, you're a daddy?!" proportions through facial expression. Don't remember the episode. So yeah, it confuses me when people act like Susan hasn't been born yet. Technically, she has. Just because she was born in the 24th (?) century doesn't mean she's born in the Doctors' future.

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I agree wholeheartedly: Doctor Number One doesn't strike me as the type of guy to take a random granddaughter from the future very well.

However, he's lived a long time since then. I'd imagine that after a while you'd start acting like a guy without a family again, especially if you'd had several personality-makeovers/rejuvenations-of-spirit since aforementioned family. We're watching the Doctor's timeline as it occurs to him, and he already had a grandchild. I highly doubt that any family he has now is one that will loop back and affect earlier generations.
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Romantic Citizen

Fujimi Senshi

I agree wholeheartedly: Doctor Number One doesn't strike me as the type of guy to take a random granddaughter from the future very well.

However, he's lived a long time since then. I'd imagine that after a while you'd start acting like a guy without a family again, especially if you'd had several personality-makeovers/rejuvenations-of-spirit since aforementioned family. We're watching the Doctor's timeline as it occurs to him, and he already had a grandchild. I highly doubt that any family he has now is one that will loop back and affect earlier generations.
To the Sea! To the Sea!

Exactly. Time and Regeneration has numbed the emotions and memories. Doesn't he even say something along those lines? It was one of the older doctors, I'm sure. I'm certain anyone who lives hundreds of years would eventually be able to detach themselves from things that aren't there as constant reminders.

On another note, I think it's a bit odd that ALL the Time Lords are gone. There weren't any that happened to be somewhere else? Or on an outpost far away, or anything? I can't see the ENTIRE planets' population being there, even with the war... That and I want to see what they'd do with Romanas' character. xd She's my answer to the 'Female Doctor' debate. Want a Lady Doctor? Just bring back Romana! She's the next most likely to have escaped in my opinion. After the Master. I've never seen a Romana series, but she seems like a good character, she's female, she's a Time Lord, and she's a former Doctor companion. It's not like the dead stay dead, after all. Hell, it's possible to run into a Romana from before the war, isn't it?

The white gulls are crying...User Image
Eternal Raine
Fujimi Senshi

I agree wholeheartedly: Doctor Number One doesn't strike me as the type of guy to take a random granddaughter from the future very well.

However, he's lived a long time since then. I'd imagine that after a while you'd start acting like a guy without a family again, especially if you'd had several personality-makeovers/rejuvenations-of-spirit since aforementioned family. We're watching the Doctor's timeline as it occurs to him, and he already had a grandchild. I highly doubt that any family he has now is one that will loop back and affect earlier generations.
To the Sea! To the Sea!

Exactly. Time and Regeneration has numbed the emotions and memories. Doesn't he even say something along those lines? It was one of the older doctors, I'm sure. I'm certain anyone who lives hundreds of years would eventually be able to detach themselves from things that aren't there as constant reminders.

On another note, I think it's a bit odd that ALL the Time Lords are gone. There weren't any that happened to be somewhere else? Or on an outpost far away, or anything? I can't see the ENTIRE planets' population being there, even with the war... That and I want to see what they'd do with Romanas' character. xd She's my answer to the 'Female Doctor' debate. Want a Lady Doctor? Just bring back Romana! She's the next most likely to have escaped in my opinion. After the Master. I've never seen a Romana series, but she seems like a good character, she's female, she's a Time Lord, and she's a former Doctor companion. It's not like the dead stay dead, after all. Hell, it's possible to run into a Romana from before the war, isn't it?

The white gulls are crying...User Image


I think that is a loophole that could be drawn upon in the future if writer's block becomes an issue, however barring episodes proclaiming otherwise, i think the assumptions are:

The Time War is 'time locked' in that you can't influence the events therein or those who were involved in it earlier in their personal timelines, and also it was important enough that every Gallifreyan everywhere came back to fight. after all, it was a fight with the worst villains the universe has ever seen, for the universe itself.
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Whoever she is....I hope she has really big Dalek bumps.
i actually got dooped on april 1st because of a website doctorwhotv
they said there would be a female doctor and i got me.........
but then i looked at the calendar
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It could be done, but I don't really trust them to write it well enough. They would have to make the Doctor alarmed that she became a she, she'd have to be just saucy enough to convince some guy to come into a phonebooth with her, but no more, because of the whole "curse" thing. They would have to translate all the doctory awesomositude into a more feminine form, which may be impossible, and they'de have to give her her own spin, which I can't think of a way they could do that. She can't be pissy or ditzy, because that would undermine her heroicness. Writing a funny persona for her would be tricky, and a bit of a rehash. Last, the whole of every episode would have to take place in the kitchen. As much as I think I'd like the first episode or two, I don't see a female Doctor happening.
the whole of every epsiode need take place in a kitchen rolleyes
Are you rolling your eyes at me or OP?
You
You just have the shallowest sense of humor.

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