This is a Fantastic Four thread.

[Kid_Flash]

Why do the Fantastic Four work for you? Stan Lee described the Fantastic Four as a team where you can tell any story and it won't seem to ridiculous, I find that true as long as the author keeps in mind that the story must have a heavy focus on characters.

Why don't they? Occasionally writers forget that its the characters taht bring these zany stories down to earth. I don't like those runs.

Which is your favourite run? Story? Character? Reed invention? My favorite story is without a doubt Unthinkable. Up until that story I had never understood Dr. Doom as a villain but that story really pulled it all together.

How do you see their place in the MU? They're the foundation of the whole thing, but they always seem kind of marginal. How does that work? Although the Fantastic Four was one of the earliest teams in the Marvel U they've since fallen away from popularity moreso than others. They just don't ahve the cool factor of Wolverine or the relatability of Spider Man.

How would you have done the films? No Dr. Doom with superpowers... that never works for me.

Which was the first FF story you ever read? I had a What If where the Fantastic Four had been replaced by the Hulk, Ghost Rider, Spider Man, and Wolverine.

Who'd you most like to see write and draw them? I love the current run on don't think you could do much better. I"m a big Peter David fan though and would like to see waht he might do with the series if given a chance with an artist who was less realistic.

[Teatime Brutality]

This isn't necroposting.

This is me time-travelling back to 2008 TO WARN YOU ALL OF WHAT IS TO COME!

CBR

Finally, Brevoort was asked a very direct question: is there going to be a book called "Fantastic Four" at this same time next year? In response, Brevoort offered a surprisingly direct answer: "No. No, there won't."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28036

And to ask if anyone could talk me slowly through #582. I think I understood...I just need to check.
I'd do it for you.

[Cookie Icer]

Greetings and Salutations everyone. I'm a fan of Comic Books in General, Marvel universe/Marvel comics being my favorite. Here's my thoughts on the Fantastic Four.

Why do I like them?- Overall the Fantastic Four aren't my favorite team. Most days I would pick either the X-men or the Avengers over a Fantastic Four Comic, but despite the FF not being my favorite Marvel series, the Thing is by far my favorite comic Book hero. So when I do read a FF story arc I tend to get one that aims more at having Ben Grimm as the central character.

Why the FF don't work?- As a team/family, they are enjoyable to read, but where the members of the Avengers and even the X-men you can pull most of their characters out and have them run sucsessful arcs on their own, the Fantastic Four you can't do that. The Thing had some success with his individual stories, they tried with Johnny Storm but that ended up unsuccessful, Sue and Reed, forget about it. They work well together, but fail divided where so many other characters in the Marvel universe can pull their own weight solo.

Favorite FF story arc?- I really enjoyed when Ben went back in time and became Black Beard the pirate. Don't know why but I really loved that story. I also enjoyed the stories involving the Sub Mariner.

Who I want to see write/draw an FF comic?- Joss Whedon, no questions asked. As far as I know he hasn't tackled the Fantastic Four yet, and I loved his treatment with the X-men, and just hist story telling all together. (Excited when I heard he's directing the Avengers) I would just love to see his take on the FF.

How I would have done the movies?- The first movie I really enjoyed since it seemed to focus on Ben Grimm and him dealing with his deformity, You really feel sympathetic for this wonderful character and they did a great job portraying him. I would probably go from Ultimates series where Victor was on the space station with the team and got his powers and based the story more on the original series. I hear rumor that Marvel wanted to do a Sub Mariner film. I personally don't think that would be a great movie on it's own, but perhaps a new Fantastic Four movie, not necessarily a reboot, but shifting gears and taking the series into a new direction and make the next movie about the FF's encounter with the Sub Mariner.

[Linda Lee Danvers]

#582:

Franklin and Valeria, along with their Grandfather, have been successful in all of their endeavors. Franklin activated his past self's reality-bending powers early, Valeria warned her mother, and Nathanial Richards defeated all of his alternate-reality selves to become the only Nathanial in all realities.

Because the future they are in is changing, they are going to cease to exist. Only Franklin's powers are keeping their small pocket of reality intact. They don't know what's going to happen to them after reality is rewritten. Rather than allow Nathanial to stay with them and possibly cease to exist completely (remember, he is the ONLY Nathanial now), Frankly kicks him out into the timestream to be protected from the change. That way, the Reed Richards of their reality has something he deserves to have...a father.

Franklin and Valeria face the end of their timeline together, hoping that the changes they made will create a future that is a better place.

Edit: My bad. Just went back and reread it. On the last two pages, Franklin and Val are going to try to 'tunnel' through the new reality in the hopes of surviving.

And also, Franklin draws a picture of Val where she is an oinky pig.

[Linda Lee Danvers]

In which

I ramble on a bit further about Nathanial Richards...





-On the page showing Evil Nathanial killing other Nathanials, it appears that one of the victims is the Nathanial Richards of the Fantastic Force era (with the red monocle). So I guess the implicit hint is that Fantastic Force took place in a (very crappy) alternate universe. I have no problems with this.

-When talking to her mom, Valeria mentions "The Last War, when all reality has collapsed into a single timestream and the heat death of everything is imminent..." So apparently, someone(s) is going to try to recreate what caused all of the Nathanial Richardses to translocate to a single timeline. On a MUCH bigger scale. eek

-There is a HUGE wrinkle introduced when Franklin states that Nathanial made ALL other Reed Richards' in the universe into Orphans. Remember the Council of Reeds? Remember how 'our' Reed was the only one to turn them down? THIS is where we see the aggregated reason of why our Reed can focus past the just big picture. This is the big difference between our Reed and theirs.

He still has a dad.

[Teatime Brutality]

Thanks, Linda. Uncap that tip jar.
I think that was all swiming around in my head somewhere but needed ironing out.

Linda Lee Danvers

#582:

Franklin and Valeria, along with their Grandfather, have been successful in all of their endeavors. Franklin activated his past self's reality-bending powers early, Valeria warned her mother, and Nathanial Richards defeated all of his alternate-reality selves to become the only Nathanial in all realities.

This is something that's puzzling me...since FutureVal&Franklin are changing history, why is Val so sure that the terrible thing that's about to happen (Johnny's death by the looks of it) is one of those LOST style "whatever happened, happened" scenarios?

Linda Lee Danvers

Because the future they are in is changing, they are going to cease to exist. Only Franklin's powers are keeping their small pocket of reality intact. They don't know what's going to happen to them after reality is rewritten. Rather than allow Nathanial to stay with them and possibly cease to exist completely (remember, he is the ONLY Nathanial now), Frankly kicks him out into the timestream to be protected from the change. That way, the Reed Richards of their reality has something he deserves to have...a father.

Franklin and Valeria face the end of their timeline together, hoping that the changes they made will create a future that is a better place.

Edit: My bad. Just went back and reread it. On the last two pages, Franklin and Val are going to try to 'tunnel' through the new reality in the hopes of surviving.

This is where I was especially woolly.

Linda Lee Danvers

-On the page showing Evil Nathanial killing other Nathanials, it appears that one of the victims is the Nathanial Richards of the Fantastic Force era (with the red monocle). So I guess the implicit hint is that Fantastic Force took place in a (very crappy) alternate universe. I have no problems with this.

When you were saying how rotten those stories were I wondered if he'd take the oppertunity to do something like that. smile

Linda Lee Danvers

-When talking to her mom, Valeria mentions "The Last War, when all reality has collapsed into a single timestream and the heat death of everything is imminent..." So apparently, someone(s) is going to try to recreate what caused all of the Nathanial Richardses to translocate to a single timeline. On a MUCH bigger scale. eek

But...but...oh s**t. This is Crisis on Infinite Earths hitting Marvel. eek
Are we assuming this 'Last War' is distinct from the War of the Four Cities? Because it's difficult (now, anyway) to see how that could lead to that.

[Teatime Brutality]

Locks and Bagels

Greetings and Salutations everyone. I'm a fan of Comic Books in General, Marvel universe/Marvel comics being my favorite.

Welcome to the thread and the forum!

Locks and Bagels

Why the FF don't work?- As a team/family, they are enjoyable to read, but where the members of the Avengers and even the X-men you can pull most of their characters out and have them run sucsessful arcs on their own, the Fantastic Four you can't do that. The Thing had some success with his individual stories, they tried with Johnny Storm but that ended up unsuccessful, Sue and Reed, forget about it. They work well together, but fail divided where so many other characters in the Marvel universe can pull their own weight solo.

That's really true, isn't it?
I think it's one one of the things that makes the four so interesting, how they function as a Unit of Drama. It's almost like 'The Fantastic Four' is a character as much as any of its components.

I wonder what it is about Ben that makes him detachable from that?

Locks and Bagels

Who I want to see write/draw an FF comic?- Joss Whedon, no questions asked. As far as I know he hasn't tackled the Fantastic Four yet, and I loved his treatment with the X-men, and just hist story telling all together. (Excited when I heard he's directing the Avengers) I would just love to see his take on the FF.

He had them briefly guest-star in Astonishing, I think. I seem to remember some quality Ben-banter. smile

Personally, I could see Joss getting himself into a bit of a tangle doing the BIG SF CONCEPT side of things, but it'd be worth it for the dialogue-pornography (TM&C, Spider).

[Linda Lee Danvers]

Richard_Swift

Thanks, Linda. Uncap that tip jar.
I think that was all swiming around in my head somewhere but needed ironing out.

Linda Lee Danvers

#582:

Franklin and Valeria, along with their Grandfather, have been successful in all of their endeavors. Franklin activated his past self's reality-bending powers early, Valeria warned her mother, and Nathanial Richards defeated all of his alternate-reality selves to become the only Nathanial in all realities.

This is something that's puzzling me...since FutureVal&Franklin are changing history, why is Val so sure that the terrible thing that's about to happen (Johnny's death by the looks of it) is one of those LOST style "whatever happened, happened" scenarios?

"Frozen time" as it were? Possibly. This isn't one of those 'we keep trying to change it till we get it right' type of time travel scenarios. Franklin and Val have only gotten one shot, and it's changed things. They can't go back and try again. So obviously, they've chosen a moment that HAS to be changed...and it might not be the one everyone would want (say, saving the life of someone they love).

Quote:

Linda Lee Danvers

Because the future they are in is changing, they are going to cease to exist. Only Franklin's powers are keeping their small pocket of reality intact. They don't know what's going to happen to them after reality is rewritten. Rather than allow Nathanial to stay with them and possibly cease to exist completely (remember, he is the ONLY Nathanial now), Frankly kicks him out into the timestream to be protected from the change. That way, the Reed Richards of their reality has something he deserves to have...a father.

Franklin and Valeria face the end of their timeline together, hoping that the changes they made will create a future that is a better place.

Edit: My bad. Just went back and reread it. On the last two pages, Franklin and Val are going to try to 'tunnel' through the new reality in the hopes of surviving.

This is where I was especially woolly.

Fzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. This is as bad in some ways as the many reality-wipings of the Legion of Superheroes, except it's happening for in-text reasons rather than meta-textual ones. Of course, that means I think it's awesome.

Did I actually type "Frankly" instead of Franklin? Rest assured, that's a typo and not a cutesy pet name.

Quote:

Linda Lee Danvers

-On the page showing Evil Nathanial killing other Nathanials, it appears that one of the victims is the Nathanial Richards of the Fantastic Force era (with the red monocle). So I guess the implicit hint is that Fantastic Force took place in a (very crappy) alternate universe. I have no problems with this.

When you were saying how rotten those stories were I wondered if he'd take the oppertunity to do something like that. smile

It was a nice touch, and very subtle. I honestly wonder if anyone else caught on at all.

Quote:

Linda Lee Danvers

-When talking to her mom, Valeria mentions "The Last War, when all reality has collapsed into a single timestream and the heat death of everything is imminent..." So apparently, someone(s) is going to try to recreate what caused all of the Nathanial Richardses to translocate to a single timeline. On a MUCH bigger scale. eek

But...but...oh s**t. This is Crisis on Infinite Earths hitting Marvel. eek
Are we assuming this 'Last War' is distinct from the War of the Four Cities? Because it's difficult (now, anyway) to see how that could lead to that.

My wild and crazy theory is that the War of the Four Cities is not The Last War....and that the "Last War" is in fact brought around by someone who could have been inspired by what happened to Nathan to try it himself. Someone like Doom.

[Teatime Brutality]

Linda Lee Danvers

"Frozen time" as it were? Possibly. This isn't one of those 'we keep trying to change it till we get it right' type of time travel scenarios. Franklin and Val have only gotten one shot, and it's changed things. They can't go back and try again. So obviously, they've chosen a moment that HAS to be changed...and it might not be the one everyone would want (say, saving the life of someone they love).

That makes sense... and it may even turn out that the Death of ProbablyJohnny is whatever buys them the limited time and resources they do have

Linda Lee Danvers

Fzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. This is as bad in some ways as the many reality-wipings of the Legion of Superheroes, except it's happening for in-text reasons rather than meta-textual ones. Of course, that means I think it's awesome.

Did you know that Hickman's a huge Legion fan? Are the shelves of Lucien's library filling up with more comics you're imagining him writing now you do?

And there's no word but awesome for watching people jump the collapsing wave of a dying universe. I'm so glad I left it 24 hours between reading Batman and this. There'd be nothing left of me. Nothing.

Hang on. New thought. If Val and Franky-chops survive the collapse of their universe and make it into the one that comes next... wouldn't that make them Galacti?

Linda Lee Danvers

My wild and crazy theory is that the War of the Four Cities is not The Last War....and that the "Last War" is in fact brought around by someone who could have been inspired by what happened to Nathan to try it himself. Someone like Doom.

Presumably the 'All hope lies in Doom' prophecy is played out now (in his Nathaniel killing) and he's opperating outside the TomorrowSiblings' masterplans now, so it could very well be.

Actually, it might be worth having another look at FutureFranklin's arc words now the plot's caught up with much of them...

"There will be a war between the four cities"
"The dead must not be forgotten"
"The future man must return to save the past"
"And all hope lies in doom"

Looks like we know the details of the the war between the cities, why they were counting on Doom and who the Future Man was (do we think that the Nathaniel giving sage advice to YoungReed back in 'Solve Everything' came from a point in his personal timeline after the boot to his face?).

So why must the dead (presumably of 'Three') "not be forgotten?" How does the War between the cities relate? And what was the benefit of giving YoungVal this information?

I love this stuff so much. heart heart heart

[Pinderpanda 600]

The world is coming round to my way of seeing things.
Not talking about my tastes. Just about the appropriate means of asserting them.

[Xanderby]

eek I've never seen that chart. Wow. Really, though, I'm probably mostly impressed due to a lack of charts and diagrams around here recently...

[Pinderpanda 600]

Xanderby

eek I've never seen that chart. Wow.

Hickman is a god of charts.
I can't wait to get stuck into Nightly News some time. It sounds like some kind of glorious marriage of chart and comic into one form. A chamic, perhaps heart

Xanderby

I'm probably mostly impressed due to a lack of charts and diagrams around here recently...

I'm just one man!!! scream crying

[Xanderby]

Oh, I don't blame you. There's been so much Glory In Comics Form (namely anything Hickman or Morrison throw out, along with various other bits) recently, there's just no time! I can completely understand your love of the MA Spiderbook, I was a big proponent when I worked in a library. That and Tiny Titans were the only things I would check out, for the most part. Perfect bite-sized bits to fit in my busy schedule, and plenty of awesome to go around.

[Pinderpanda 600]

I hear the Marvel Adventures line sells a lot to libraries. This is further proof that Librarians are smart people (though I don't need any more, I've never met a stupid one.)

Hey...you don't know how the Marvel Adventures Fantastic Four was, do you?
I could fancy some FF-Fluff to balance out all this headshit and I don't find the Franklin Richards one-shots remotely funny.

[Xanderby]

Y'know, I've never read any of the Franklin one-shots. I did read some of the MA books, but the Fantastic Four ones did not read well. They seemed very forced, and the characters were written like...not the characters.