RIP to Battle for the Cowl - Your every question answered.

[The Swift One]

I've read the wiki about R.I.P., I've read through this thread, and I've lurked on boards all over the internet. It seems to be an interesting premise, but a good majority of the people I talk to tell me that it's bad. What exactly is wrong with this picture? Is it the execution? Do I just have bad taste?

[Sorcette]

The Swift One

I've read the wiki about R.I.P., I've read through this thread, and I've lurked on boards all over the internet. It seems to be an interesting premise, but a good majority of the people I talk to tell me that it's bad. What exactly is wrong with this picture? Is it the execution? Do I just have bad taste?

It's called RIP but Batman doesn't die. Another catch is that it references a few things that happened Pre-Crisis, and is an Event that ios the culmination of Morrison's entire run. It's not encapsulated, and doesn't fulfill what's in the title; therefore a lot of people got confused and angry at the story.

That said, if you sit down and read it all (as in Morrison's whole run, not just RIP) in one shot, it makes sense and is actually a decent story. I didn't like all of it, but it's hardly "the worst stint on a high profile comic to date".

edit: And the tie-ins, while a companion piece, were not plotted by Morrison. It was just the writers of the individual books forced into trying to fit in with the story.

[Querl Dox]

You know, when all is said and done, I wonder in retrospect if RIP wouldn't have fared better as a standalone graphic novel, rather then as a whole run in Batman. Yes, some elements that were seeded through Morrison's entire run would have to be encapsulated in the 120 pages of RIP itself, but perhaps the work as it is would have stood up better to the fans if it were allowed to be examined on it's own merits, rather then as a single body of work in an ongoing narrative.

[evan_McB]

This chronology is brilliant! It really clears a lot of stuff up for me, and almost makes me want to read the actual story. Almost...

But truly, as a big Wildstorm fan, that stuff about how the Bleed has been retconned into DCU stories from 2+ decades ago is the neatest. smile

[Pinderpanda 600]

Querl Dox

You know, when all is said and done, I wonder in retrospect if RIP wouldn't have fared better as a standalone graphic novel, rather then as a whole run in Batman.

It would certainly have been better received - Batman fandom is much more disposed to think highly of the OGN or collected mini-series or the prestige one-shot than it is of anything that happens in the comic. How many of Mister Internet Consensus's MOST IMPORTANT BATMAN STORIES OF ALL TIME actually happened in Batman or Detective? Not very many, that's how many.

Textually and metatextually though, one of the big things Batman RIP was saying was that, "the things that happen in the monthly matter." So I'm kinda glad it happened in the monthly.

(BTW - I thought your PatDoc was the high water mark of your Who Cosplays, but your ColDoc just gets better and better each time)

evan_McB

But truly, as a big Wildstorm fan, that stuff about how the Bleed has been retconned into DCU stories from 2+ decades ago is the neatest. smile

I can't get past how immensely satisfying I find that either. smile

The Swift One

I've read the wiki about R.I.P., I've read through this thread, and I've lurked on boards all over the internet. It seems to be an interesting premise, but a good majority of the people I talk to tell me that it's bad. What exactly is wrong with this picture? Is it the execution? Do I just have bad taste?

The people who hate it are very loud.

But they're not the majority they seem. Over on Newsarama it's become a truism that the story was unpopular, with the site's own editor repeating that truism at Didio. Despite the fact that in a poll held on the story's conclusion the majority of respondents liked it.

The sales figures weren't bad either...not so much in the volume shifted (though it was typically #3 in the charts) but in that it manged to grow its audience from where it started with its first issue - something neither Final Crisis nor Secret Invasion managed. So it was doing something right.

At the end of the day though, it's all pretty subjective. Myself I loved the thing, warts and all, and I tried to pop in enough cultural touchpoints into the "Why should I read..." section to give people a fair idea of whether or not it might be their sort of party.

If there was one thing I could make the internet understand about this story, just one thing and nothing else, then it'd be this...

Batman RIP : You're not pretentious if you enjoyed it. You're not stupid if you didn't.

[The Swift One]

Thanks, dudes. I will now proceed to throw my money at the proper outlets in order to obtain this series of books.

[Last Renshi]

Master Bruce Wayne

I'm trying to figure out how they'd substantiate a claim like that. I'm not entirely sure what the bulk of reviewers are saying about Morrison's Batman, I'm sure it isn't that.

They didn't bother trying to substantiate anything. They have a page with a calendar on it in every issue that mainly serves to let readers know what games are coming out and when. But since games only come out one day per week they need filler. They usually say something about movies or comics. They often try to be clever, but they failed pretty hard this go around.

[Technologist Tony Stark]

Well what is the general critical response to Morrison's Batman? Anyone been keeping track?

[Last Renshi]

Something I have determined about my personal reading of the works of Grant Morrison, I find I enjoy them much more as a bulk reading. I got the Superman Beyond 3D #2 and found myself scrambling trying to find issue #1. When I dropped Marvel, I wasn't reading any DC so my entry comic was the brand new JLA series which Morrison wrote. I was not super-stoked about the first issue, but once I had gotten a hold of the entire first story arc I thought the entire work was great. So, I'll be picking up the trade obviously.

I have to wonder if many of nay-sayers about the run need to look at the work as a whole and not just a series of individual issues.

[Linda Lee Danvers]

It's an undeniable truth that these serialized stories read differently if you get to sit down and read them all in a single chunk at the first go then if you're reading them issue to issue with a month in between. Tradewaiting can strengthen or completely weaken a story.

I waited over a year to buy "The Lightning Saga" JLA/JSA crossover in paperback. And me, huge Legion lover that I am, got halfway through before I got bored and completely lost interest. Without that nostalgia excitement of "which Legion member will show up next? What's going to happen next?!" driving me to continue reading, all I can do is look at it and say 'Wow. This story is NOT very good.' The characterizations of everyone are pretty shallow. The art ranges from good to awful. And the story is little more then a strung-together series of trips down memory lane with the added "SEE? THIS TAKES PLACE IN THE NOW! COOOOOL." Action Comics 'Superman & The Legion of Superheroes' took the same approach but did it much better.

So let's try a little experiment...how about I buy Morrison's Batman trades (which I've read nothing of), and give my impressions as a reader who's reading them in trade for the first time? Where should I start if I'm getting it in trades?

[Technologist Tony Stark]

Batman and Son is the first trade. I disagree with the idea that RIP should have been it's own thing because I feel like it would be like just snatching the climax out of a novel and selling it on it's own. It's almost literally like taking Inferno out of The Divine Comedy, which they do because it's the sexy one and oh does that ever make me mad, but nevermind that.

I think that really the canon of Batman would have lost so very much if it lost the rest of that run. We wouldn't know things like how much comic book readers hate prose, there would never have been Batman #666, or that brilliant Agatha Christie bit that introduced the Black Glove. I'm going to be very bitter with DC, mostly Didio, over how RIP and Final Crisis were promoted and presented. Out of all of those stories that were meant to be either RIP or Final Crisis related, no one ever thought that they should just market RIP as a tie in/lead in to Final Crisis.

[Clark~Kent]

Technologist Tony Stark

We wouldn't know things like how much comic book readers hate prose...

scream

[Last Renshi]

Clark~Kent

Technologist Tony Stark

We wouldn't know things like how much comic book readers hate prose...

scream

Well, to be fair, it was a surprise to readers. I think many people were upset because they didn't get what they paid for. They wanted a comic, they got a prose story. I was surprised too, but all it meant to me was that I had to set aside a larger chunk to time to reading it, and it was well worth it. It was a very good piece.

Some people got so ticked at the fact that they didn't get what they paid for, which is completely understandable, that they disregarded the issue altogether and some even threw it out, which is silly since they paid for it and should at least try it.

I'm seriously considering following suite on Linda's ploy however I have read all the lead in material monthly. So, hopefully I'll be able to contrast the reading experiences.

I think, looking back that this is something I should have trade waited, since I find Morrison in general better enjoyed in larger portions.

[Sorcette]

The entire run (complete with Pinder's Black Casebook, and the tie-ins) is available on the internet. I mention this because I don't think all the trades are out yet, and the Casebook comes in handy. And obviously you should buy the available trades first.

[Lord Fates]

Last Renshi

]Well, to be fair, it was a surprise to readers. I think many people were upset because they didn't get what they paid for. They wanted a comic, they got a prose story. I was surprised too, but all it meant to me was that I had to set aside a larger chunk to time to reading it, and it was well worth it. It was a very good piece.

Don't forget the crappy poser artwork. I saw as many people riled up about that filling up thier backgrounds. Given how exspensive a habit buying comics can be, it feels like a waste of space.