Life's A Riot Between The Wars (The MU CCC)

Best YELLOW costume

Crystal	48.3%	[ 14 ]
Hellcat	51.7%	[ 15 ]
Total Votes:			[ 29 ]

[Teatime Brutality]

Technologist Tony Stark

I was worried I'd have nothing to contribute here, but it looks like a very fun space to start to feel out just what Marvel is, especially getting a feel for the MU. There's a certain je ne sait quoi about the DCU that I grasped very early on- I think the first non-Vertigo/Wildstorm DC book I ever picked up was Azzarello's Superman while I think my Marvel reading was largely uninterrupted from when I was fourteen until now, so about a decade and yet I couldn't ever really say that I've had a handle on what the MU is in that same sense.

I think its hard to get a grasp on what sort of a space the MU is, because it isn't one. Or at least it isn't one in the way that the DCU is. It's more like an artefact.

The DCU's a conceptual space that was created when people started squashing different stories together and deciding that they 'shared a universe', and over the years that process of combining, dividing and understanding the conceptual space has become the focus of much activity in the fiction.

A Crisis is a painting about its canvas.

That brings its own problems, but by foregrounding its spatiality, the DCU makes explicit that it isn't a story, that it isn't a history. It's a place where stories and histories happen. This allows for an incredible variety of tone, ideology and technique. Sandman could never ever have grown out of any other shared comics universe. The DCU's the only kind of soil in which trees like that will fruit.

It is possible to see the Marvel Universe as one story, one history though. Its main virtue is the integrity, cohesion and wholeness that the DCU finds its main virtue in lacking. I'm not talking here about anything as boring as "Marvel's continuity is more linear than DC's" - that's just a side effect of what's going on here. It's a universe that grew up as a universe, rather than through the cellular fusion of vigorously frotaging narratives.

There's a mechanical quality to the MU...it's like a horologist fitting together lots of little cogs and calling it a "watch", whereas the DCU is more like an artist taking a handful of little cogs, throwing them across a beach and yelling out, "I call it....THE SHORES OF FOREVER!"

Obviously what I'm trying to say is something you've heard me say a good few times before...I think the DCU is a postmodern space and that the MU is a modernist object.

Ihab Hassan once wrote a list of oppositions helpful in getting the whole modernism/postmodernism thing. I expect Oni's seen it around, but it's still fun having a look down it and seeing the extent to which it could be talking about the Marvel and DC universes.

Modernism / Postmodernism
Romanticism/Symbolism / Pataphysics/Dadaism
Form (conjunctive, closed) / Antiform (disjunctive, open)
Purpose / Play
Design / Chance
Hierarchy / Anarchy
Mastery/Logos / Exhaustion/Silence
Art Object/Finished Work / Process/Performance/Happening
Distance / Participation
Creation/Totalization / Decreation/Deconstruction
Synthesis / Antithesis
Presence / Absence
Centering / Dispersal
Genre/Boundary / Text/Intertext
Semantics / Rhetoric
Paradigm / Syntagm
Hypotaxis / Parataxis
Metaphor / Metonymy
Selection / Combination
Root/Depth / Rhizome/Surface
Interpretation/Reading / Against Interpretation/Misreading
Signified / Signifier
Lisible (Readerly) / Scriptible (Writerly)
Narrative/Grande Histoire / Anti-narrative/Petite Histoire
Master Code / Idiolect
Symptom / Desire
Type / Mutant
Genital/Phallic / Polymorphous/Androgynous
Paranoia / Schizophrenia
Origin/Cause / Difference-Differance/Trace
God the Father / The Holy Ghost
Metaphysics / Irony
Determinacy/ Indeterminancy
Transcendence / Immanence

I might go through them later and see which ones fit and which don't. Or that might be your homework.

[Ku Y'leh]

My MU pull list is:

Amazing Spider-Man
Immortal Iron Fist
Uncanny X-Men
X-Men Legacy
Guardians of the Galaxy
Nova
Captain America
Fantastic Four
New Avengers
Mighty Avengers
Thunderbolts
Secret Warriors
Dark Avengers
Ultimate Spider-Man
Spider-Man: Noir
X-Men: Noir

probably some more but I just woke up and not thinking at 100% right now

[Moshing-mice]

OK, looking at peoples pull lists a thought occurs to me. I don't see much discussion of Wildstorm over in the CCC. Are we to limit the riot act to 616, or does anything Marvel go? I guess this might have proven moot already with the discussion of X-Men Forever. What about the Ultimate line though? Or MAX? Or Noir? Or, more to the point, Icon?

Keeping it to any thing that flies under the Marvel banner seems most probable. I don't see any reason to not talk about Ultimatum or Noir. In fact, as I'm collecting neither in issues, I'd like to see peoples thoughts on these so I can decide whether I'm waiting for trade.

Books like Dark Tower and Kick a** are more the types I'm referring to. Marvels also pushed their novel adaptation fairly well, as an avid fan of L. Frank Baum's children’s books, and the good things I have heard, I've resigned myself to picking The Wizard of Oz up in trade. Do we discuss these comics here?

Nobody around here really seems the type to hack my computer and give me a virus for mentioning the Anita Blake series on the Marvel CCC. I was just looking to get a proper grasp of the feel this thread should have.

[Pinderpanda 600]

Moshing-mice

Books like Dark Tower and Kick a** are more the types I'm referring to. Marvels also pushed their novel adaptation fairly well, as an avid fan of L. Frank Baum's children’s books, and the good things I have heard, I've resigned myself to picking The Wizard of Oz up in trade. Do we discuss these comics here?

Nobody around here really seems the type to hack my computer and give me a virus for mentioning the Anita Blake series on the Marvel CCC. I was just looking to get a proper grasp of the feel this thread should have.

These things seem to work out organically. I'd guess the focus of the thread'll stick with 616 and so forth, but there's nothing to stop anyone starting a conversation or making remarks here about Marvel's other publishing efforts. It's about what we do discuss, not about what we don't.

Over on the CCC we've had discussions about Marvel books, Image books, Doctor Who (once or twice) and we even had a discussion of Anitia Blake once. Max's fault, I think. smile

The idea is "We definately talk about this. And we might end up talking about anything."

I'm really looking forward to that Wizard of Oz collection. I bought the first issue and loved it so much I immediately decided to tradewait. God, when I say it like that I realise how odd the market they've created is. There aren't many other products about which I'd say, "I loved this so much I decided to stop buying it."

[Maniacal Norman Osborn]

Moshing-mice

OK, looking at peoples pull lists a thought occurs to me. I don't see much discussion of Wildstorm over in the CCC. Are we to limit the riot act to 616, or does anything Marvel go? I guess this might have proven moot already with the discussion of X-Men Forever. What about the Ultimate line though? Or MAX? Or Noir? Or, more to the point, Icon?

No one should ever have to talk about the Ultimate line. Well, maybe slander.

It's all Marvel, though. I don't see why not. Most titles I'm picking up are 616, but only because I jumped on the "Noir" train late and Ennis left MAX Punisher. Icon has some good stuff. Like I said, I'm loving Incognito, and there's still Criminal. If I can pick up some copies of Kick-a** without having to resort to the "5634th Printing Variants," I might consider it. JRJR's art is great, so long as you give him a good inker and enough time to do the issues. (If you didn't pick up on that, I'm not digging his Spider-Man stuff so much nowadays) I'm not a big fan of Mark Millar, but he has his moments. Besides, I'm probably going to end up seeing the movie (Not a big Nicholas Cage fan, but they filmed here and some of my friends might end up extras, so I'll be dragged by the collar) and I think I owe it to myself to read the source material before that. (Though if the time frame and Wanted have taught us anything, it's that they'll be alike in name only.)

Anyone pick up Secret Warriors on Wednesday? I don't get paid until tomorrow, so I haven't had a chance to stop by the shop, but I'm curious as to what's going on there. With the (enraging) way the first issue ended off, they have some god damned explaining to do. Though I very much doubt they will.

[verds]

kissmekillme

Avengers (of the Dark, New, Mighty and Inititiative varieties)

I never took you to be a hardcore Avengers fan - by that I mean someone on Cos' level. Or a massive Bendis fan for that matter

I'm just interested as to why you're picking up everything with the Avengers banner on it

[Heine EX]

my marvel list:
Amazing Spider-man
Deadpool
Dark Avengers
Incredible Hercules
Invincible Iron Man
Nova
Thunderbolts
Thor
War Machine
X-force

Spider-man Noir
Ultimatum

[kissmekillme]

verds

kissmekillme

Avengers (of the Dark, New, Mighty and Inititiative varieties)

I never took you to be a hardcore Avengers fan - by that I mean someone on Cos' level. Or a massive Bendis fan for that matter

I'm just interested as to why you're picking up everything with the Avengers banner on it

I'm not, really. Unless you count West Coast. Of all of them, the only one I'm actually enjoying to an extent is Initiative. But I like to keep abreast of the developments of the Marvel Universe on a large scale, and Avengers reading right now is kinda important for that.

Plus, I'm not actually paying to read these titles, so whether they're any good or not hurts less.

[Moshing-mice]

Maniacal Norman Osborn

JRJR's art is great, so long as you give him a good inker and enough time to do the issues. (If you didn't pick up on that, I'm not digging his Spider-Man stuff so much nowadays)

Finally, a like mind! I've actually thought this for years however. JRJR's art is great on things like the Sentry and Kick a**, but I just feel as though Spidey isn't that style anymore. Any time I say this around people at the ol' LCS, I feel as though I should immediately follow it up with a preemptive right-hook. I know exactly one person who agrees with me.

[Nick Joseph Fury]

Moshing-mice

Maniacal Norman Osborn

JRJR's art is great, so long as you give him a good inker and enough time to do the issues. (If you didn't pick up on that, I'm not digging his Spider-Man stuff so much nowadays)

Finally, a like mind! I've actually thought this for years however. JRJR's art is great on things like the Sentry and Kick a**, but I just feel as though Spidey isn't that style anymore. Any time I say this around people at the ol' LCS, I feel as though I should immediately follow it up with a preemptive right-hook. I know exactly one person who agrees with me.

I didn't mind it too much back in Straczynski's run. Majorly overrated, yeah, but not bad. Nowadays, it just seems rushed and unclean. Eh. He's most definitely not his father.

[Moshing-mice]

I see his art and I think of his father though. Or at least that era of comics. That's why I think it worked so well for the Sentry and the Eternals. Kick a** is another, not so much keyed into the era, but keyed into that pulp feel. I've always thought he'd do good on a Doc. Savage comic. I just feel as though spidey doesn't fit that mold anymore.

[Technologist Tony Stark]

Richard_Swift

Or that might be your homework.

I've been chipping away at it bit by bit. I haven't seen that proper list, but most of the introductory texts on Postmodernism I've read reference it to a certain degree because many of those are very familiar to me.

[verds]

kissmekillme

I'm not, really. Unless you count West Coast. Of all of them, the only one I'm actually enjoying to an extent is Initiative. But I like to keep abreast of the developments of the Marvel Universe on a large scale, and Avengers reading right now is kinda important for that.

Plus, I'm not actually paying to read these titles, so whether they're any good or not hurts less.

Yeah there seems to be a lot of peripheral stuff that ties into the big crossovers that happens in the Avengers books which is kind of why I avoid it, beyond the obvious annoyance at Bendis' direction


In regarsd to what I'm reading, I wait for specific formats for my Marvel books so it's normally just a waiting game until I see the solicits
X-Men Legacy/Uncanny/Astonishing (in over-sized)
Captain America (Omnibus)
Thor (trades)

There's other stuff I'm interested in like Captain Britain, Hercules, Mighty Avengers, Iron man, T-bolts and Guardians, but I've been culling books recently in an attempt to save money

[Maiadorn]

L_LawIiet

I'm making a note to pick it up. Is it true there is a Muslim woman, and she's practically treated like a human being and she's not associated with terrorism or dust?

Aside from Paul Cornell being what is known in scientific circles as Some Kind of Effin' Genius, the issue of Faiza isn't really made an issue, I think because he's trying to say that no-one should have to be told Muslims Are Just Like You And Me. Though I do think Faiza's new chainmail headscarf is quite cool.

Although that there may be dust under her bed and in that bit of the teapot you can never get at with the towel.

I loved Blade's "Must have spent too long around superheroes" line in the latest issue. In a fine example of Paul Cornell doing that "Here's a thing, whoops it's actually something else" thing Pindy was talking about, when Blade turned up, his characterisation served to reinforce my belief that any character you could describe as "edgy", "driven" or "gritty" would actually be a bit of a t**t in person.

And then Paul Cornell goes and says "You know what? I bet ALL characters can be interesting if you write them as people instead of ambulatory action figures!" and now Blade is slowly turning into A Real Person Who Can Go The Pub And Everything, without having a broody internal monologue about what a f** hunting the undead can be.

He's the sort of writer characters must dream about getting.

(It's not a typo, I've just been renewing my acquaintance with a certain Mr. Jasper Fforde)

(Which come to think of it, I'm doing because of something Paul Cornell wrote.)

(Brrr...)


But anyway, yeah. Dracula invading Britain with an army of vampires from his secret castle on the moon. I've sold about four or five people the book just by saying that. It's like how no-one really listens to your pitch about His Dark Materials until you get to the bit about the armoured polar bears having a bundle.

[Natalia Romanova]

Maiadorn

It's like how no-one really listens to your pitch about His Dark Materials until you get to the bit about the armoured polar bears having a bundle.

No one ever listens to my His Dark Materials pitch ever, period! scream


[/random]

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