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I have an idea. Get the movie rights to one of Miller's comics. Completely change the tone, setting, character acting, the whole bit. Same names, totally new concept. Tell Miller he doesn't get it when he complains. Laugh.

Damn I'm evilly ironic.

That being said, I still liked about 75% of the movie. Got a group of friends to see it, had a blast. Next time I have a party after it comes out on DVD I'd rent it.
Trickster Loki Laufeyson
Joss Whedon and Grant Morrison have by turns expressed wonderment and gratitude for the fact that they came up in a time period where their interests coincided with the public appetite. What we have here is Frank Miller gazing down from an ivory tower to see that the unwashed masses have no appetite for his grand artistic vision, and he is flanked by Peter David and Kyle Baker telling us that we are fools for not buying into it.

So you'll have to excuse me for feeling that Baker's satire rings rather hollow.


Dear Loki, (I'm using my real name, by the way. I hope that's all right), allow me to personally express wonderment and gratitude for the fact that I came up in a time period where my interests coincided with the public appetite.

Now we can be friends! What would you like to discuss first?

By the way, I always liked you better than Thor. heart
Did anybody see "Meet Dave?" I thought that was a really funny movie, too. Eddie Murphy shoots money and hot dogs out of his butt. I watched it with my family and all six of us laughed at it.

I don't get Adam Sandler movies. I know there's a lot of people who like his films, but he never really connects with me as a member of the audience. Oh, well, to each his own.
I think my favorite Spirit story is "Ten Minutes." That's the one where a guy says, "What's ten minutes in a man's life?" Living in New York, I knew the ending to be physically impossible because the girders are actually too far from the platform to kill a man (spoiler, sorry), but I try not to take these things too seriously. We're all here to have a good time, right?

Anybody else have a favorite story? I remember a great one where Jules Feiffer kills Will Eisner and redraws the strip with the characters all as little kids! The Li'l Spirit had a cute yo-yo. Feiffer wrote some really great Spirit stories. Did he work on the Wally Wood episodes? Anybody know?
Oh, the first one is a fantastic story. It starts with the girl jump roping, starting with "A is for apple..." and by the time she's gotten to the end of the rhyme, a life has come to an end.

My favorite Spirit story is the serial where a gun-flash from the Octopus actually costs the Spirit his sight. For several stories he has to cope with being blind while going about his regular duties. I believe you showed an image from it in your "Spirit Movie Review." It's actually one of my two favorite Ebony stories, as Ebony goes out of his way to make sure the Spirit's path is clear as he hard-headedly tries to do 'business as usual.'

It also ends with one of my favorite characters, Silken Floss, saving his eyesight. whee
Kyle Baker Cartoons
Feiffer wrote some really great Spirit stories. Did he work on the Wally Wood episodes? Anybody know?


Are you referring to the "Spirit in Space" daily storyline? The hardcover for that is out now, isn't it? I haven't added it to my collection yet...But the bits I've seen online are brilliant. A penal colony on the moon...

By the way, welcome to Gaia. biggrin
Kyle Baker Cartoons
I think my favorite Spirit story is "Ten Minutes." That's the one where a guy says, "What's ten minutes in a man's life?" Living in New York, I knew the ending to be physically impossible because the girders are actually too far from the platform to kill a man (spoiler, sorry), but I try not to take these things too seriously. We're all here to have a good time, right?

Anybody else have a favorite story? I remember a great one where Jules Feiffer kills Will Eisner and redraws the strip with the characters all as little kids! The Li'l Spirit had a cute yo-yo. Feiffer wrote some really great Spirit stories. Did he work on the Wally Wood episodes? Anybody know?

Man, I freaking love that ten minutes story. Makes me think a lot of some of Eisner's later work. I think my favorite Spirit story might have been about the little guy who could actually fly, but nobody noticed because of the dramatic rooftop gun-fight that was going on. OH wait, what about the one where a battered husband and a convict switch places? That one was aces. 3nodding

Gia, one day I'm going to find that gun-flash story you've been talking about. It sounds seriously good. My reading of The Spirit has been somewhat limited, but I've loved what I've found.

I'd weigh in on the movie, but I haven't seen it. xp From what I've heard, if nothing else it may be the kind of movie that's so ridiculous it can't help but be entertaining.
Hi Kyle.
You don't seem nearly as high horsey as some things i've read from you.
Do you believe everything you read about people you don't know? Or only by people who don't even use their real name on message boards?
CJ Hammer, do you have any favorite Spirit stories?
Kyle Baker Cartoons


Dear Loki, (I'm using my real name, by the way. I hope that's all right), allow me to personally express wonderment and gratitude for the fact that I came up in a time period where my interests coincided with the public appetite.


Brilliant!

Quote:
Now we can be friends! What would you like to discuss first?


Well I'm curious to know how you would have approached a Spirit movie.

Quote:
By the way, I always liked you better than Thor. heart


I'd say you and Matt Groening are the only two creators I'd actually believe that statement from. heart
I joined this site so I could have fun with my oldest daughter, who visits here all the time. I saw a "Spirit" thread, and figured I could interact with other people who love Will Eisner's work. Imagine my surprise when I found a page devoted to attacking me and Peter David for defending our friend. What sort of "community" sees friendship as a negative? Peter David and Frank Miller are both good friends who have stood up for me when I needed help. When Paul Levitz had one of my books taken off the distributors' trucks and pulped, Frank was the one who wrote an editorial about how I had been mistreated, and he campaigned to get the unpublished story an Eisner award. He didn't have to do that. There was no benefit to him. There was no reason for Peter to defend me when the message board posters ganged up on me yesterday on the PW site. Especially when he knew how much crap he was going to get for it. That's REAL friendship.

You know when people started saying I was a stuck-up elitist? When I became successful. When I finally got some professional breaks after years of work, all the other cartoonists who claimed to have my back turned theirs. That's what happens. Frank and Peter are two of the only people who are genuinely happy for me when I have good news. They're not competitive, or so insecure that they think another person's success somehow diminishes one's own status. I wish I had a hundred pals like that. I wish there WERE a hundred people that classy.

I use social networking sites to make friends. Thanks to this new technology, I can contact people I admire and become friends. I've met some of my favorite cartoonists, writers, movie stars and TV producers simply by sending a message and a friendly note expressing GENUINE admiration. Now I have a great new circle of friends instead of the competitive losers who gossiped behind my back.

I think that's a more productive use of time than writing vindictive posts about some celebrity whose work I dislike (and there are plenty). I think if I spent my time complaining about people who were more successful than I, I would probably end up a lonely, bitter guy. I'd rather have healthy relationships with good friends who will be my friend even when it's not the politically expedient thing to do.

I'm going to find my daughter online now and have some fun exploring Gaia.
Well I'm curious to know how you would have approached a Spirit movie.

Exactly the way I approached the comic book.

I've had at least four jobs I can think of where I was asked to revamp an old cartoon character who had long since lapsed in popularity: d**k Tracy, Looney Tunes, The Shadow, and Plastic Man.

The challenge is that you can't use the same approach that's been used in the past, because that approach isn't working. Joe Staton, Hilary Barta, and Ramona Fradon all did perfect emulations of Jack Cole's Plastic Man style, but the books were cancelled, so obviously folks don't want that. So I used Jack Cole's layouts, story, and dialogue while trying for a more updated Genndy Tartakovsky art style. It didn't sell, either, and fans complained that I had desecrated Jack Cole.

I was hired by Marvel to provide a Captain America which would appeal to the Black youth who thought Marvel was corny and old-fashioned. I had been hired along with the writer because we had done a successful series of hip-hop cartoons in Vibe magazine. I have also directed a hip-hop video for MTV, and done Hip-Hop album covers. I did what I was hired to do, providing a graffiti-styled Black Captain America. The fans crucified me.

My work on the Shadow was canceled for bad sales while fans roasted me for not being true to the character. Twenty years later, people who found the unsold books in the dollar bin say it's my best work and wonder why I don't do that stuff any more.

Looney Tunes: Back In Action was actually well-received by critics for being faithful to the original Jones and Freling shorts. Nobody went to the movie, and that's why Warner tried turning them into super-heroes next. That failed too.

Trying to revive faded characters is a thankless job. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. It will destroy your career, and people will call you names.
Well, The Spirit rarely gets much attention around here, and with a big movie coming out, it's naturally going to dominate the discourse. I think there's something like three active threads going about the movie, with the vast majority of posters having never read any of the comics, so it really isn't any kind of accurate reflection on the forum as a whole.

You're a creator whose work, what little of it I've read so far, I've quite enjoyed. However, I disagree with your position on Miller's movie and your views on the criticism of the movie, and I think that's fair. It certainly won't stop me from buying anything you've produced in the future.
Kyle Baker Cartoons
I joined this site so I could have fun with my oldest daughter, who visits here all the time. I saw a "Spirit" thread, and figured I could interact with other people who love Will Eisner's work. Imagine my surprise when I found a page devoted to attacking me and Peter David for defending our friend.
I would hardly think the few comments which have mention either you or Peter would label this a thread "devoted to attacking [Kyle Baker] and Peter David."

There are some valid criticisms of the film here, many of which seem to be getting dismissed out of hand.
I don't like the vapid one-liners that have been taped to the character in the film? Well that must mean I don't think the Spirit is supposed to be funny, not that I do in fact think the Spirit is supposed to be funny and this film has failed spectacularly at that.
I don't like that the film is a visual knock-off of Sin City, setting an exaggeratedly dark tone which I think is a hack move to try and play off the previous film as opposed to finding a direction more appropriate to the character? Well that must mean I hate Sin City and Frank Miller, not that, while I liked the former and have a more complicated relationship with the latter, I don't think this was the right direciton.
I haven't seen the film, but the above linked review mentioned there was sexism in the movie and I'm not surprised. Miller's recent works tend to be seeped in that special MillerBrand sexism, where women are sexual cartoons and provide simpering support material for Very Manly Men.
What I find insulting is the insinuation that because the original material in the Spirit also contained sexism, I'm not supposed to be offened that MillerBrand sexism shines through here.
Somehow, it's ok to move with the times and not include Ebony White (a move which I agree with) because of its racist problems, but chicks? Well who cares, we're just chicks and why should we watch a comic book movie anyway.

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