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The Joker is a psychopath, technically his only appeal is that he takes joy in causing harm with the whole joker theme. Christopher Nolan took a realistic look at the character and it's not like he didn't play with his victims, he just did it in a more sadistic way. I enjoyed the grittier version of the Joker, the scarred smile, smeared make-up and filthy hair with bits of green, the whole amoral attitude. It's not a good idea to pull back a character to cartoonish propotions, especially not for a academy award winning film director.
Except I don't watch comic book movies to see them be boringly realistic.
Boringly realistic? I would like to know exactly what scene Joker was in that was boring to you? Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way. I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one. If you want something not realistic, watch the cartoons.
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Joksta
The Joker is a psychopath, technically his only appeal is that he takes joy in causing harm with the whole joker theme. Christopher Nolan took a realistic look at the character and it's not like he didn't play with his victims, he just did it in a more sadistic way. I enjoyed the grittier version of the Joker, the scarred smile, smeared make-up and filthy hair with bits of green, the whole amoral attitude. It's not a good idea to pull back a character to cartoonish propotions, especially not for a academy award winning film director.
Except I don't watch comic book movies to see them be boringly realistic.
Boringly realistic? I would like to know exactly what scene Joker was in that was boring to you? Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way. I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one. If you want something not realistic, watch the cartoons.
I don't want to beat a dead horse but the Joker has been charming in all other productions. In The Dark Knight, the Joker was totally unlikable save for his speech about his dad cutting his lips into a smile.
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Joksta
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Joksta
The Joker is a psychopath, technically his only appeal is that he takes joy in causing harm with the whole joker theme. Christopher Nolan took a realistic look at the character and it's not like he didn't play with his victims, he just did it in a more sadistic way. I enjoyed the grittier version of the Joker, the scarred smile, smeared make-up and filthy hair with bits of green, the whole amoral attitude. It's not a good idea to pull back a character to cartoonish propotions, especially not for a academy award winning film director.
Except I don't watch comic book movies to see them be boringly realistic.
Boringly realistic? I would like to know exactly what scene Joker was in that was boring to you? Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way. I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one. If you want something not realistic, watch the cartoons.
I don't want to beat a dead horse but the Joker has been charming in all other productions. In The Dark Knight, the Joker was totally unlikable save for his speech about his dad cutting his lips into a smile.
I don't get what you consider charming, either you like the fact he's more clownish in other productions or you like that he plays with his victims. I can give several examples in the movie of him playing with his victims besides the scar stories he tells like the magic trick kill, having 2 goons fight to the death to be in his crew, plus the hospital and boat game to name a few. I personally don't see how the Joker isn't "charming" because he always has the same psychotic persona in all productions with the laugh and lack of compassion for human life. You do know he is a serial killer and they only dumbed down his character for tv with the laughing gas instead of murders. I'm pretty sure you posted this knowing the majority of people enjoyed Nolan's Joker even better than previous versions. Whether you found it unlikable is your opinion, but your arguments of why mainly consists of the fact you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way which is silly of you to think for a live action movie. You sound childish complaining that the Joker was so bad that you can't watch any other films, he was portrayed as the villain he truly is.
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Joksta
The Joker is a psychopath, technically his only appeal is that he takes joy in causing harm with the whole joker theme. Christopher Nolan took a realistic look at the character and it's not like he didn't play with his victims, he just did it in a more sadistic way. I enjoyed the grittier version of the Joker, the scarred smile, smeared make-up and filthy hair with bits of green, the whole amoral attitude. It's not a good idea to pull back a character to cartoonish propotions, especially not for a academy award winning film director.
Except I don't watch comic book movies to see them be boringly realistic.
Boringly realistic? I would like to know exactly what scene Joker was in that was boring to you? Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way. I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one. If you want something not realistic, watch the cartoons.
I don't want to beat a dead horse but the Joker has been charming in all other productions. In The Dark Knight, the Joker was totally unlikable save for his speech about his dad cutting his lips into a smile.
I don't get what you consider charming, either you like the fact he's more clownish in other productions or you like that he plays with his victims. I can give several examples in the movie of him playing with his victims besides the scar stories he tells like the magic trick kill, having 2 goons fight to the death to be in his crew, plus the hospital and boat game to name a few. I personally don't see how the Joker isn't "charming" because he always has the same psychotic persona in all productions with the laugh and lack of compassion for human life. You do know he is a serial killer and they only dumbed down his character for tv with the laughing gas instead of murders. I'm pretty sure you posted this knowing the majority of people enjoyed Nolan's Joker even better than previous versions. Whether you found it unlikable is your opinion, but your arguments of why mainly consists of the fact you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way which is silly of you to think for a live action movie. You sound childish complaining that the Joker was so bad that you can't watch any other films, he was portrayed as the villain he truly is.
I do read the comics and played Arkham Asylum. In the Emperor Joker storyline, because he had the power to do so, he had Batman die a horrible but spectacular death EVERY NIGHT. Batman was a broken wreck after Mxyzptlk got his powers back, until the memories of it were taken away.

The Joker is supposed to be dark AND funny/showy. Not just dark. Nolan took the showy and funny out.
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Joksta
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Joksta
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Joksta
The Joker is a psychopath, technically his only appeal is that he takes joy in causing harm with the whole joker theme. Christopher Nolan took a realistic look at the character and it's not like he didn't play with his victims, he just did it in a more sadistic way. I enjoyed the grittier version of the Joker, the scarred smile, smeared make-up and filthy hair with bits of green, the whole amoral attitude. It's not a good idea to pull back a character to cartoonish propotions, especially not for a academy award winning film director.
Except I don't watch comic book movies to see them be boringly realistic.
Boringly realistic? I would like to know exactly what scene Joker was in that was boring to you? Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way. I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one. If you want something not realistic, watch the cartoons.
I don't want to beat a dead horse but the Joker has been charming in all other productions. In The Dark Knight, the Joker was totally unlikable save for his speech about his dad cutting his lips into a smile.
I don't get what you consider charming, either you like the fact he's more clownish in other productions or you like that he plays with his victims. I can give several examples in the movie of him playing with his victims besides the scar stories he tells like the magic trick kill, having 2 goons fight to the death to be in his crew, plus the hospital and boat game to name a few. I personally don't see how the Joker isn't "charming" because he always has the same psychotic persona in all productions with the laugh and lack of compassion for human life. You do know he is a serial killer and they only dumbed down his character for tv with the laughing gas instead of murders. I'm pretty sure you posted this knowing the majority of people enjoyed Nolan's Joker even better than previous versions. Whether you found it unlikable is your opinion, but your arguments of why mainly consists of the fact you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way which is silly of you to think for a live action movie. You sound childish complaining that the Joker was so bad that you can't watch any other films, he was portrayed as the villain he truly is.
I do read the comics and played Arkham Asylum. In the Emperor Joker storyline, because he had the power to do so, he had Batman die a horrible but spectacular death EVERY NIGHT. Batman was a broken wreck after Mxyzptlk got his powers back, until the memories of it were taken away.

The Joker is supposed to be dark AND funny/showy. Not just dark. Nolan took the showy and funny out.
You're comparing a video game to a movie and 2 completely different storlylines of Joker's first appearance and Joker becoming emperor of Gothan City. That whole first paragraph is irrelevent, you're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Nolan's Joker was dark and funny/showy for even the reasons I just mentioned. For some more examples, what's not funny/showy about him blowing away a SWAT vehicle with various guns including a bazooka from a truck thats label was turned from laughter and had spray painted red "s" in front for slaughter? What's not funny/showy about him in a nurses outfit walking away from a hospital he's about to blow up? I'm sorry, but so far it just looks like you were ignorant of the whole movie, every scene Joker was in involved some sort of game he was playing. I'd stop looking at Nolan's Joker so objectively because you'd rather he be more cartoonish with fake guns and acid flower brooches, they did his character justice and you haven't given examples of how they didn't. Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light and stop making up excuses that he's not portrayed perfectly from previous incantations. This "charm" is merely in your head, you'd rather him be less menacing, which isn't what they were going for.

In short, the movie wasn't made just for your enjoyment. You even claimed to not like "boringly realistic" comic book movies and if any superhero movie is going to be portrayed realistically, it's Batman. Also, everyone here agrees that Nolan's Joker was entertaining and portrayed in a good light. Not only did the performance win many awards, but it did bring new life to his character with the audience by making it more dark and sadistic while still maintaining his Joker attitude. I'd say they did good despite your disapproval and The Dark Knight can easily be claimed the best Batman movie yet.
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Boringly realistic? I would like to know exactly what scene Joker was in that was boring to you? Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way. I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one. If you want something not realistic, watch the cartoons.
I don't want to beat a dead horse but the Joker has been charming in all other productions. In The Dark Knight, the Joker was totally unlikable save for his speech about his dad cutting his lips into a smile.
I don't get what you consider charming, either you like the fact he's more clownish in other productions or you like that he plays with his victims. I can give several examples in the movie of him playing with his victims besides the scar stories he tells like the magic trick kill, having 2 goons fight to the death to be in his crew, plus the hospital and boat game to name a few. I personally don't see how the Joker isn't "charming" because he always has the same psychotic persona in all productions with the laugh and lack of compassion for human life. You do know he is a serial killer and they only dumbed down his character for tv with the laughing gas instead of murders. I'm pretty sure you posted this knowing the majority of people enjoyed Nolan's Joker even better than previous versions. Whether you found it unlikable is your opinion, but your arguments of why mainly consists of the fact you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way which is silly of you to think for a live action movie. You sound childish complaining that the Joker was so bad that you can't watch any other films, he was portrayed as the villain he truly is.
I do read the comics and played Arkham Asylum. In the Emperor Joker storyline, because he had the power to do so, he had Batman die a horrible but spectacular death EVERY NIGHT. Batman was a broken wreck after Mxyzptlk got his powers back, until the memories of it were taken away.

The Joker is supposed to be dark AND funny/showy. Not just dark. Nolan took the showy and funny out.
You're comparing a video game to a movie and 2 completely different storlylines of Joker's first appearance and Joker becoming emperor of Gothan City. That whole first paragraph is irrelevent, you're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Nolan's Joker was dark and funny/showy for even the reasons I just mentioned. For some more examples, what's not funny/showy about him blowing away a SWAT vehicle with various guns including a bazooka from a truck thats label was turned from laughter and had spray painted red "s" in front for slaughter? What's not funny/showy about him in a nurses outfit walking away from a hospital he's about to blow up? I'm sorry, but so far it just looks like you were ignorant of the whole movie, every scene Joker was in involved some sort of game he was playing. I'd stop looking at Nolan's Joker so objectively because you'd rather he be more cartoonish with fake guns and acid flower brooches, they did his character justice and you haven't given examples of how they didn't. Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light and stop making up excuses that he's not portrayed perfectly from previous incantations. This "charm" is merely in your head, you'd rather him be less menacing, which isn't what they were going for.

In short, the movie wasn't made just for your enjoyment. You even claimed to not like "boringly realistic" comic book movies and if any superhero movie is going to be portrayed realistically, it's Batman. Also, everyone here agrees that Nolan's Joker was entertaining and portrayed in a good light. Not only did the performance win many awards, but it did bring new life to his character with the audience by making it more dark and sadistic while still maintaining his Joker attitude. I'd say they did good despite your disapproval and The Dark Knight can easily be claimed the best Batman movie yet.
Cool story bro. I like the comic book, cartoon, 1960's, and video game depictions. To make him bound to the real world takes all the charm out of him IMO. I agree with what the Joker cosplayer in page 1 said in every possible way.
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Joksta
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Joksta
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Joksta
Boringly realistic? I would like to know exactly what scene Joker was in that was boring to you? Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way. I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one. If you want something not realistic, watch the cartoons.
I don't want to beat a dead horse but the Joker has been charming in all other productions. In The Dark Knight, the Joker was totally unlikable save for his speech about his dad cutting his lips into a smile.
I don't get what you consider charming, either you like the fact he's more clownish in other productions or you like that he plays with his victims. I can give several examples in the movie of him playing with his victims besides the scar stories he tells like the magic trick kill, having 2 goons fight to the death to be in his crew, plus the hospital and boat game to name a few. I personally don't see how the Joker isn't "charming" because he always has the same psychotic persona in all productions with the laugh and lack of compassion for human life. You do know he is a serial killer and they only dumbed down his character for tv with the laughing gas instead of murders. I'm pretty sure you posted this knowing the majority of people enjoyed Nolan's Joker even better than previous versions. Whether you found it unlikable is your opinion, but your arguments of why mainly consists of the fact you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way which is silly of you to think for a live action movie. You sound childish complaining that the Joker was so bad that you can't watch any other films, he was portrayed as the villain he truly is.
I do read the comics and played Arkham Asylum. In the Emperor Joker storyline, because he had the power to do so, he had Batman die a horrible but spectacular death EVERY NIGHT. Batman was a broken wreck after Mxyzptlk got his powers back, until the memories of it were taken away.

The Joker is supposed to be dark AND funny/showy. Not just dark. Nolan took the showy and funny out.
You're comparing a video game to a movie and 2 completely different storlylines of Joker's first appearance and Joker becoming emperor of Gothan City. That whole first paragraph is irrelevent, you're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Nolan's Joker was dark and funny/showy for even the reasons I just mentioned. For some more examples, what's not funny/showy about him blowing away a SWAT vehicle with various guns including a bazooka from a truck thats label was turned from laughter and had spray painted red "s" in front for slaughter? What's not funny/showy about him in a nurses outfit walking away from a hospital he's about to blow up? I'm sorry, but so far it just looks like you were ignorant of the whole movie, every scene Joker was in involved some sort of game he was playing. I'd stop looking at Nolan's Joker so objectively because you'd rather he be more cartoonish with fake guns and acid flower brooches, they did his character justice and you haven't given examples of how they didn't. Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light and stop making up excuses that he's not portrayed perfectly from previous incantations. This "charm" is merely in your head, you'd rather him be less menacing, which isn't what they were going for.

In short, the movie wasn't made just for your enjoyment. You even claimed to not like "boringly realistic" comic book movies and if any superhero movie is going to be portrayed realistically, it's Batman. Also, everyone here agrees that Nolan's Joker was entertaining and portrayed in a good light. Not only did the performance win many awards, but it did bring new life to his character with the audience by making it more dark and sadistic while still maintaining his Joker attitude. I'd say they did good despite your disapproval and The Dark Knight can easily be claimed the best Batman movie yet.
Cool story bro. I like the comic book, cartoon, 1960's, and video game depictions. To make him bound to the real world takes all the charm out of him IMO. I agree with what the Joker cosplayer in page 1 said in every possible way.
Considering all your arguments failed, you took the right root in just saying that you enjoy the cartoony versions rather than the realistic one Nolan made.
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I don't get what you consider charming, either you like the fact he's more clownish in other productions or you like that he plays with his victims. I can give several examples in the movie of him playing with his victims besides the scar stories he tells like the magic trick kill, having 2 goons fight to the death to be in his crew, plus the hospital and boat game to name a few. I personally don't see how the Joker isn't "charming" because he always has the same psychotic persona in all productions with the laugh and lack of compassion for human life. You do know he is a serial killer and they only dumbed down his character for tv with the laughing gas instead of murders. I'm pretty sure you posted this knowing the majority of people enjoyed Nolan's Joker even better than previous versions. Whether you found it unlikable is your opinion, but your arguments of why mainly consists of the fact you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way which is silly of you to think for a live action movie. You sound childish complaining that the Joker was so bad that you can't watch any other films, he was portrayed as the villain he truly is.
I do read the comics and played Arkham Asylum. In the Emperor Joker storyline, because he had the power to do so, he had Batman die a horrible but spectacular death EVERY NIGHT. Batman was a broken wreck after Mxyzptlk got his powers back, until the memories of it were taken away.

The Joker is supposed to be dark AND funny/showy. Not just dark. Nolan took the showy and funny out.
You're comparing a video game to a movie and 2 completely different storlylines of Joker's first appearance and Joker becoming emperor of Gothan City. That whole first paragraph is irrelevent, you're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Nolan's Joker was dark and funny/showy for even the reasons I just mentioned. For some more examples, what's not funny/showy about him blowing away a SWAT vehicle with various guns including a bazooka from a truck thats label was turned from laughter and had spray painted red "s" in front for slaughter? What's not funny/showy about him in a nurses outfit walking away from a hospital he's about to blow up? I'm sorry, but so far it just looks like you were ignorant of the whole movie, every scene Joker was in involved some sort of game he was playing. I'd stop looking at Nolan's Joker so objectively because you'd rather he be more cartoonish with fake guns and acid flower brooches, they did his character justice and you haven't given examples of how they didn't. Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light and stop making up excuses that he's not portrayed perfectly from previous incantations. This "charm" is merely in your head, you'd rather him be less menacing, which isn't what they were going for.

In short, the movie wasn't made just for your enjoyment. You even claimed to not like "boringly realistic" comic book movies and if any superhero movie is going to be portrayed realistically, it's Batman. Also, everyone here agrees that Nolan's Joker was entertaining and portrayed in a good light. Not only did the performance win many awards, but it did bring new life to his character with the audience by making it more dark and sadistic while still maintaining his Joker attitude. I'd say they did good despite your disapproval and The Dark Knight can easily be claimed the best Batman movie yet.
Cool story bro. I like the comic book, cartoon, 1960's, and video game depictions. To make him bound to the real world takes all the charm out of him IMO. I agree with what the Joker cosplayer in page 1 said in every possible way.
Considering all your arguments failed, you took the right root in just saying that you enjoy the cartoony versions rather than the realistic one Nolan made.
What's not to like about a guy who hums or whistles to his own theme music in the shows, or is aware of events that got retconned out in the comics, sometimes almost being DC's Deadpool in terms of awareness that he's a comic book character?
Joksta
Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way.
No. It's a concession that Batman is a human hero, but this doesn't make his stories any more realistic than Superman's. None of the Batman films have been what can be called "realistic." They can be said to be more grounded in reality than a story about space aliens or ghosts, but they are still cartoonish.

Quote:
I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one.
That is a poor and inaccurate point. A decent realistic film is no better or worse than a decent cartoon. And a well made cartoon will still be loved by the masses. A well made story is a better story.

The Joker is an interpretive character, and it's one thing to argue points over another.

But this:
Quote:
Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light

Is inaccurate.

Nolan's Joker was darker. He was grittier. He was more cynical and anarchistic. He was in many ways also more two dimensional, his plots more nonsensical. He was still cartoonishly violent but with less humorous flare, with a seemingly endless supply of money from which to draw out his devices, an endless covert army to set up his devices under total cover, and enough (random luck? special training?) to give Batman a run for his (also endless supply of) money. Whether this was an improvement or not is up for debate.

But these things do not make the character more "realistic."

That is the Geoff Johns theory of story-telling. That by making something "darker" and taking out obvious elements of science fiction, you have created something more related to reality and that is somehow "better."
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Joksta
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Joksta
I don't get what you consider charming, either you like the fact he's more clownish in other productions or you like that he plays with his victims. I can give several examples in the movie of him playing with his victims besides the scar stories he tells like the magic trick kill, having 2 goons fight to the death to be in his crew, plus the hospital and boat game to name a few. I personally don't see how the Joker isn't "charming" because he always has the same psychotic persona in all productions with the laugh and lack of compassion for human life. You do know he is a serial killer and they only dumbed down his character for tv with the laughing gas instead of murders. I'm pretty sure you posted this knowing the majority of people enjoyed Nolan's Joker even better than previous versions. Whether you found it unlikable is your opinion, but your arguments of why mainly consists of the fact you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way which is silly of you to think for a live action movie. You sound childish complaining that the Joker was so bad that you can't watch any other films, he was portrayed as the villain he truly is.
I do read the comics and played Arkham Asylum. In the Emperor Joker storyline, because he had the power to do so, he had Batman die a horrible but spectacular death EVERY NIGHT. Batman was a broken wreck after Mxyzptlk got his powers back, until the memories of it were taken away.

The Joker is supposed to be dark AND funny/showy. Not just dark. Nolan took the showy and funny out.
You're comparing a video game to a movie and 2 completely different storlylines of Joker's first appearance and Joker becoming emperor of Gothan City. That whole first paragraph is irrelevent, you're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Nolan's Joker was dark and funny/showy for even the reasons I just mentioned. For some more examples, what's not funny/showy about him blowing away a SWAT vehicle with various guns including a bazooka from a truck thats label was turned from laughter and had spray painted red "s" in front for slaughter? What's not funny/showy about him in a nurses outfit walking away from a hospital he's about to blow up? I'm sorry, but so far it just looks like you were ignorant of the whole movie, every scene Joker was in involved some sort of game he was playing. I'd stop looking at Nolan's Joker so objectively because you'd rather he be more cartoonish with fake guns and acid flower brooches, they did his character justice and you haven't given examples of how they didn't. Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light and stop making up excuses that he's not portrayed perfectly from previous incantations. This "charm" is merely in your head, you'd rather him be less menacing, which isn't what they were going for.

In short, the movie wasn't made just for your enjoyment. You even claimed to not like "boringly realistic" comic book movies and if any superhero movie is going to be portrayed realistically, it's Batman. Also, everyone here agrees that Nolan's Joker was entertaining and portrayed in a good light. Not only did the performance win many awards, but it did bring new life to his character with the audience by making it more dark and sadistic while still maintaining his Joker attitude. I'd say they did good despite your disapproval and The Dark Knight can easily be claimed the best Batman movie yet.
Cool story bro. I like the comic book, cartoon, 1960's, and video game depictions. To make him bound to the real world takes all the charm out of him IMO. I agree with what the Joker cosplayer in page 1 said in every possible way.
Considering all your arguments failed, you took the right root in just saying that you enjoy the cartoony versions rather than the realistic one Nolan made.
What's not to like about a guy who hums or whistles to his own theme music in the shows, or is aware of events that got retconned out in the comics, sometimes almost being DC's Deadpool in terms of awareness that he's a comic book character?

So you think that The Dark Knight would have been a better movie if Joker started talking to the camera and breaking the fourth wall? No thanks.

Also, it's not like he does it every single story, much less every page for that matter, like Deadpool.

It's just that Nolan's movies were meant to be more realistic, and set in a real world. And personally I find that really interesting. It makes the audience question how they're going to handle things, like "How would Ra's Al Ghul work in a realistic world?" I'm still wondering how they're going to handle Bane in Rises. It's what makes it new and exciting. It's this new take that makes these movies much more exciting and less predictable than most other comic book movies that take nearly all ideas and concepts from the source material. For example, who knew Batman would refuse to save Ra's (A mortal Ra's at that) from the train in Begins? Who knew he would take the blame for all of Two-Faces murders in Dark Knight? Hell, who knew they would KILL Two- Face? These things never happened in the comics. Nolan is creating his own story, with his own interpretations of the characters. And I personally think he's doing a damn fine job of it. Not adapting somebody elses interpretations of the characters into someone elses story.

I personally don't understand how you could dislike the movies, just because they're more realistic. They may be realistic, but with mixing interesting characters, crime drama, and awesome Batman action scenes, I don't understand how anyone could think they're boring.

If you don't like them, fine. If you don't like a realistic Joker, that's fine. That's your opinion, but arguing that Joker ruins the ENTIRE series because he doesn't use acid shooting flowers or "bang" guns, or breaks the fourth wall, or that realism makes the movies awful, is just silly. I think you need to set your love for silly gags aside and enjoy Batman Begins and The Dark Knight for what they were.
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Joksta
You're comparing a video game to a movie and 2 completely different storlylines of Joker's first appearance and Joker becoming emperor of Gothan City. That whole first paragraph is irrelevent, you're still missing the point I'm trying to make. Nolan's Joker was dark and funny/showy for even the reasons I just mentioned. For some more examples, what's not funny/showy about him blowing away a SWAT vehicle with various guns including a bazooka from a truck thats label was turned from laughter and had spray painted red "s" in front for slaughter? What's not funny/showy about him in a nurses outfit walking away from a hospital he's about to blow up? I'm sorry, but so far it just looks like you were ignorant of the whole movie, every scene Joker was in involved some sort of game he was playing. I'd stop looking at Nolan's Joker so objectively because you'd rather he be more cartoonish with fake guns and acid flower brooches, they did his character justice and you haven't given examples of how they didn't. Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light and stop making up excuses that he's not portrayed perfectly from previous incantations. This "charm" is merely in your head, you'd rather him be less menacing, which isn't what they were going for.

In short, the movie wasn't made just for your enjoyment. You even claimed to not like "boringly realistic" comic book movies and if any superhero movie is going to be portrayed realistically, it's Batman. Also, everyone here agrees that Nolan's Joker was entertaining and portrayed in a good light. Not only did the performance win many awards, but it did bring new life to his character with the audience by making it more dark and sadistic while still maintaining his Joker attitude. I'd say they did good despite your disapproval and The Dark Knight can easily be claimed the best Batman movie yet.
Cool story bro. I like the comic book, cartoon, 1960's, and video game depictions. To make him bound to the real world takes all the charm out of him IMO. I agree with what the Joker cosplayer in page 1 said in every possible way.
Considering all your arguments failed, you took the right root in just saying that you enjoy the cartoony versions rather than the realistic one Nolan made.
What's not to like about a guy who hums or whistles to his own theme music in the shows, or is aware of events that got retconned out in the comics, sometimes almost being DC's Deadpool in terms of awareness that he's a comic book character?

So you think that The Dark Knight would have been a better movie if Joker started talking to the camera and breaking the fourth wall? No thanks.

Also, it's not like he does it every single story, much less every page for that matter, like Deadpool.

It's just that Nolan's movies were meant to be more realistic, and set in a real world. And personally I find that really interesting. It makes the audience question how they're going to handle things, like "How would Ra's Al Ghul work in a realistic world?" I'm still wondering how they're going to handle Bane in Rises. It's what makes it new and exciting. It's this new take that makes these movies much more exciting and less predictable than most other comic book movies that take nearly all ideas and concepts from the source material. For example, who knew Batman would refuse to save Ra's (A mortal Ra's at that) from the train in Begins? Who knew he would take the blame for all of Two-Faces murders in Dark Knight? Hell, who knew they would KILL Two- Face? These things never happened in the comics. Nolan is creating his own story, with his own interpretations of the characters. And I personally think he's doing a damn fine job of it. Not adapting somebody elses interpretations of the characters into someone elses story.

I personally don't understand how you could dislike the movies, just because they're more realistic. They may be realistic, but with mixing interesting characters, crime drama, and awesome Batman action scenes, I don't understand how anyone could think they're boring.

If you don't like them, fine. If you don't like a realistic Joker, that's fine. That's your opinion, but arguing that Joker ruins the ENTIRE series because he doesn't use acid shooting flowers or "bang" guns, or breaks the fourth wall, or that realism makes the movies awful, is just silly. I think you need to set your love for silly gags aside and enjoy Batman Begins and The Dark Knight for what they were.
No, I hate Nolan's ENTIRE Batman universe. I have no plans whatsoever to see Begins or Rises unless I'm paid at least twice the ticket or rental price to do so.
Ms. Selina Kyle
Joksta
Also, Batman is the most popular human superhero and of course if it's going to be made in a more realistic way.
No. It's a concession that Batman is a human hero, but this doesn't make his stories any more realistic than Superman's. None of the Batman films have been what can be called "realistic." They can be said to be more grounded in reality than a story about space aliens or ghosts, but they are still cartoonish.

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I'm sure the majority would agree that making a decent realistic film is better than a cartoonish one.
That is a poor and inaccurate point. A decent realistic film is no better or worse than a decent cartoon. And a well made cartoon will still be loved by the masses. A well made story is a better story.

The Joker is an interpretive character, and it's one thing to argue points over another.

But this:
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Just say you don't like Nolan's Joker because he was portrayed in a realistic light

Is inaccurate.

Nolan's Joker was darker. He was grittier. He was more cynical and anarchistic. He was in many ways also more two dimensional, his plots more nonsensical. He was still cartoonishly violent but with less humorous flare, with a seemingly endless supply of money from which to draw out his devices, an endless covert army to set up his devices under total cover, and enough (random luck? special training?) to give Batman a run for his (also endless supply of) money. Whether this was an improvement or not is up for debate.

But these things do not make the character more "realistic."

That is the Geoff Johns theory of story-telling. That by making something "darker" and taking out obvious elements of science fiction, you have created something more related to reality and that is somehow "better."
You missed my point that Batman is a human hero and that it would make more sense that his story be told more realistically in live action movies. Grounded in reality = more realistic

I should've been more specific that it would be better for a live action movie that it be more realistic. We don't want another Batman and Robin and even worse the very first Batman Movie with Adam West.

Again, you missed my point because Shiko is arguing that she doesn't like the fact Joker is not as cartoonish as his previous incantations and therefore she finds Joker to have lost his charm. I was simply stating that and more realistic = grounded in reality. You over analyzed what I was trying to say for the whole conversation. Please don't jump into a conversation unless you know the whole thing.
Joksta
You missed my point that Batman is a human hero and that it would make more sense that his story be told more realistically in live action movies.
My point is that it is not told more realistically. It has fewer elements of magic, it is no less fantastical.

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Grounded in reality = more realistic
This is a false equivalence. Star Trek is more grounded in reality than Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It is not, however, "more realistic."

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I should've been more specific that it would be better for a live action movie that it be more realistic. We don't want another Batman and Robin and even worse the very first Batman Movie with Adam West.

The problem with the Schumacher films is not that they weren't "realistic enough," it's that they were bad movies. Films that completely fly out of the face of conventional reality and maintain themselves as live-action include the Lord of the Rings films, the many films of Star Trek, Brazil, everything directed by Stanley Kubrick. Would these films have been better if they'd been less fantastical?

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Again, you missed my point because Shiko is arguing that she doesn't like the fact Joker is not as cartoonish as his previous incantations and therefore she finds Joker to have lost his charm. I was simply stating that and more realistic = grounded in reality. You over analyzed what I was trying to say for the whole conversation. Please don't jump into a conversation unless you know the whole thing.
I read through your entire conversation. I was pointing out the basic flaw in your arguments. She wants a more playful, capricious Joker, which Nolan's Joker is clearly not. Fair enough. You are the one arguing that she doesn't like this Joker because,

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you enjoy him not being portrayed in a realistic way


Nolan's Joker, while less comical, is no less fantastical.
Now you're just bitching about my word play. If it makes you feel better, just replace the realistic with grounded in reality and go about your business.
You are correct, I am striving to point out the fundamental inaccuracy of your argument because you do not seem to comprehend that "realistic" and "grounded in reality" are not the same thing, and that putting Nolan's Joker against (for example) Jack Nicholson, neither is more grounded in reality than the other.

Nolan's Joker is a different take. It is not more realistic or more grounded in reality.

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