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I'm failing to understand just why the ******** they would do that? I'm not questioning that they would but why.
Bigby Wolf
That doesn't sound dumb. It sounds exactly like what they're doing.


Whew, Im glad I didnt get called a moron. Sometimes seems like Im the only person who noticed the sudden reappearance of a whole boatload of Silver Age themes. sweatdrop
Hah, not quite.
Battousai Oni
I'm failing to understand just why the ******** they would do that? I'm not questioning that they would but why.


If you ask me, I think theyre going for an "Ultimate" type slimdown of the DCU, but with origins mostly like the Silver Age heroes had, but Ill get to that directly.

Theyve been complaining an awful lot that 8-year olds dont read comics anymore, that people cant just jump in because of the history and the continuity. Theyve been talking about slimming the characters pasts down, and even threw it at us with DC All-Stars.

BUT!

But they dont want to let go of the Silver Age, what they all grew up on. So they want to Ultimatize the universe, for lack of a better word, but with their heroes intact. Have Superman come to Earth as a Superbaby, and become Superboy before going to Metropolis. Having Hal Jordan as Green Lantern forever. Etc etc etc.
Quote:
Theyve been complaining an awful lot that 8-year olds dont read comics anymore, that people cant just jump in because of the history and the continuity. Theyve been talking about slimming the characters pasts down, and even threw it at us with DC All-Stars.


Which is all well and good until they start writing rape into the comic that they want eight year olds to read.
Battousai Oni
Quote:
Theyve been complaining an awful lot that 8-year olds dont read comics anymore, that people cant just jump in because of the history and the continuity. Theyve been talking about slimming the characters pasts down, and even threw it at us with DC All-Stars.


Which is all well and good until they start writing rape into the comic that they want eight year olds to read.


Tell me about it. If I had an eight year old, I wouldnt want him/her reading comics these days. Theyve gone too far trying to garner dollars via shock value.
Kyle_Rayner
Battousai Oni
Quote:
Theyve been complaining an awful lot that 8-year olds dont read comics anymore, that people cant just jump in because of the history and the continuity. Theyve been talking about slimming the characters pasts down, and even threw it at us with DC All-Stars.


Which is all well and good until they start writing rape into the comic that they want eight year olds to read.


Tell me about it. If I had an eight year old, I wouldnt want him/her reading comics these days. Theyve gone too far trying to garner dollars via shock value.


Which is what I think my point is. You can't return to Silver Age (values) by blowing people's brains out.
From what I can tell...

Superman and Batman can remember what happened because it's their comic, and since they were the focus of all the time-shifting, they remember the whole thing. I think the Legion in the future knows a bit of what happened, but not all the details.

I'm pretty sure that Diana was blind in S/B #18 after the time-shift had been fixed. During the arc, she wasn't blind, but that's because it was the alt-universe Diana, so she never blinded herself. If she wasn't blind at the end of the arc, that's a major screwup on Loeb's part, because like it or not, S/B is considered in-continuity.

Dan DiDio, in the back of 'Countdown to Infinity Crisis'
Well... that was intense.

Need to catch your breath? Take a moment, I'll wait.

But while you do, I'll tell you a little story.

Over a year ago I sat in a room with the three very talented writers of this book and talked avout everything we loved about comics. We remembered what got us hooked on comics in the first place, high-octane action, bigger than life adventure, inconcievable villains, and the greatest heroes overcoming impossible odds. We discussed how much we loved serialized stories, being left at the edge of our seat every month, unable to wait for the next issue and I reminisced about oversized comics, crammed with so many characters and so much action that I couldn't think of any way better than to spend my hard earned dollars.

Consider this comic to be a throwback to yesterday (when was the last time you bought an original 80-page comic for a buck?) but more important, a herald of things to come. While we can't sell comics at the prices they once were, we can renew our commitment to telling the types of stories that make comics great.

Spinning out from IDENTITY CRISIS and starting one second after this story concludes, THE OMAC PROJECT continues to unravel the world of our heroes setting friend against friend in a taleof intrigue and paranoia by Greg Rucka and Jesus Saiz.

Also next month, the Wizard Shazam's prophecy is realized in DAY OF VENGEANCE when the Spectre, free in GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH, teams with an all-new Eclipso to destroy the very essense of magic on Earth. Bill Willingham and Justiniano will put every magical charater in the DCU on notice that their days might be numbered.

When you have Luthor, Black Adam, Talia, Dr. Psycho, Deathstroke, and Calculator in the same room, subtlety goes out the window and VILLAINS UNITED becomes the battle cry. Gail Simone and Dale Eaglesham are responsible for this gathering of villains as they confront our heroes and the all-new Secret Six.

Last, but certainly far from least, Dave Gibbons and Ivan Reis answer Adam Strange's call to arms in the space epic THE RANN-THANAGAR WAR. This WAR puts the entire galaxy on the brink of destruction and heralds the return of one of DC's most beloved characters.

Each of these miniseries is an event in its own rgih, dealing with a different corner of the DC Universe. Any one can be the road to crisis, but which one, now that... would be telling.

To maintain the element of suprise we kept the title of this book a secret to the last possible moment. But now that you have it in your hands, let the rumors run rampant, and let the excitement begin. We are counting down to INFINITE CRISIS, the sequal to CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, one of the greatest comics stories ever told. Its changes will be far-reaching and its effects, everlasting. Promise.

Feeling better now?

Good, because if you are, you are starting to comprehend everything you just read and beginning to imagine what might happen next. But before you do, let's stop and take a moment for a final goodbye to Ted Kord, Blue Beetle, Adventurer and Justice Leaguer. He is a favorite of many, and I know he will be missed. And while Ted's story has reached this tragic conclusion, the effects of his death will be felt for months to come and his memory will have a lasting effect on our heroes.

We at DC are committed to telling great stories, and if you like what you've seen so far, you'll be happy to know it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Comics are a great medium to be enjoyed by all. Remember, buy what you read, and read what you love.

It's a great time to be a DC Comics fan... tell a friend.


Thought I'd post that in case anyone wanted to try and glean any information on it, or just see the B.S. they're trying to pull. biggrin
Sorce

Superman and Batman can remember what happened because it's their comic, and since they were the focus of all the time-shifting, they remember the whole thing. I think the Legion in the future knows a bit of what happened, but not all the details.


Though that Legion, if I've understood correctly, is no longer the one in continuity...and aren't their panels seen to fade away suggestively at the end?

I think we have to wait 'til #12 of the (incredibly good) new Mark Waid series to find out how the new Legion relates to the DCU...which I guess will factor in to the Crisis. I had thought the same thing would happen with the new Doom Patrol but it looks like thier retcon is getting explained earlier.
Kyle_Rayner

The panel of Clark holding a dead Pre-Crisis Supergirl. Are they admitting that the Pre-Crisis timeline is indeed accessible?


Way I read it, they admitted that on the last page of The Kingdom

Kyle_Rayner

Anyway, I read some stuff on another board about JSA #72, and apparently Degaton is hinting that Huntress is not supposed to be here, and that he mucked around with Power Girl's origin circa 1985. I need to read it for myself.


Not quite...it's more that Degaton references the Earth-2 Huntress (went over my head a bit as I don't know much about her) thus again hinting that the Pre-Crisis timeline is accessible.

The Power Girl thing's been building for a while...but in #72 while passing through the timestream multiple Power Girls appear around ours and menace her with thier cleavage as they pass through 1985.

The merger of the (five?) Earths to have survived the crisis into one has always been portrayed as an irreverible process before - a chemical change rather than a physical one. Here though it's refered to as 'a knot in time'. Knots can come undone.
Here we go posting random s**t...

Let's see we want a cosmic level entity to be involved in this. How's about Sinestro? He's behind Parallax could he not be behind the Rann/ Thanagar War in some way. Kyle will be involved so it's a possibility.

Then the whole DoV thing is off handedly his fault. The only thing with this is there's no way I can connect him with either Lex, or the Thanagarians.

Also where does Dr. Light fit in with this, Dr. Light, the Titans, the Outsiders. They seem a little bit to be disinvolved but they have to be involved somehow.

I'm grabbing at straws, but hey.

I'm going to say right now though that the Spectre won't be Ted. Only because Ted has always been a good guy and doesn't seem to have anything to atone for, but I may be wrong on that too.
Max Mercury's avatar

Steadfast Protector

Caz_Nova
Lex Luthor Man of Steel...

Wasn't there an earth where the only superhero was Luthor, I mean before the Crisis?

If so doesn't it seem kind of like they're prepping, and giving a show and tell of the past and the future?


Just a reminder,
since we're talking the Crisis on Infinite Earths plus Luthor....

Here's all the Luthors we used to have:
A) Lex Luthor.
You all know him. He was the bald scientist. He had the purple costume
then the purple armor.
"What do I look like-Santa Claus?"
He's the one who stole the 40 cakes or pies.
Luthor of Earth-1.
B) Alexei Luthor.
Opponent of the Earth-2 Superman.
He had a full head of hair, and was another scientist.

C) Alex Luthor.
The hero, vs the Crime Syndicate.
He's bald with a red mustache and beard.
Another scientist.

D) Alexander Luthor.
He was a CRITICAL FIGURE in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

He was the son of Alex Luthor, who sent him out of their reality
as a baby so he wouldn't be destroyed.
The Monitor retrieved him so he wouldn't die, and oversaw his growth
into a dude with red hair.
Alexander had some sort of matter/antimatter powers, and used
them as a gateway to the Anti-Monitor's lair for the heroes.

At the close of the series, as Earth-2 Superman and the Earth-Prime
Superboy prepare to vanish away, Alexander appears and offers to
let them thru a bright, unnamed gateway. He's saved Earth-2's
Lois Lane, who's waiting for her Superman.

=====
In other news,
there already WAS a sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Animal Man addressed the aftermath and how the Psycho-Pirate was
the only one who remembered it all, locked away in a sanitarium.

Zero Hour: Crisis in Time was the full-blown sequel, where Parallax
(who IS Hal Jordan, dammit!)
attempted to fix everything everywhere and split the infinite earths
up again, giving the heroes their own worlds.

A friend of mine who doesnt follow comics, when hearing the updates
on Zero Hour from me, commented then that he figured once a decade
they were going to do this and reset the clock.

Looks like this retcon is coming with rapes and aggravated assaults
included.
Max Mercury's avatar

Steadfast Protector

pinderpanda
Kyle_Rayner

The panel of Clark holding a dead Pre-Crisis Supergirl. Are they admitting that the Pre-Crisis timeline is indeed accessible?


Way I read it, they admitted that on the last page of The Kingdom

Kyle_Rayner

Anyway, I read some stuff on another board about JSA #72, and apparently Degaton is hinting that Huntress is not supposed to be here, and that he mucked around with Power Girl's origin circa 1985. I need to read it for myself.


Not quite...it's more that Degaton references the Earth-2 Huntress (went over my head a bit as I don't know much about her) thus again hinting that the Pre-Crisis timeline is accessible.

The Power Girl thing's been building for a while...but in #72 while passing through the timestream multiple Power Girls appear around ours and menace her with thier cleavage as they pass through 1985.

The merger of the (five?) Earths to have survived the crisis into one has always been portrayed as an irreverible process before - a chemical change rather than a physical one. Here though it's refered to as 'a knot in time'. Knots can come undone.


Earth-2's Huntress was Helena Wayne, Batman and Catwoman's daughter.

The only previous attempt to split the Earths, by Hal "Parallax" Jordan,
would have required him to go back to the dawn of time and split
the universes at the moment of creation.

Now, apparently, it's a cinch.
Max Mercury's avatar

Steadfast Protector

Caz_Nova
Here we go posting random s**t...

Let's see we want a cosmic level entity to be involved in this. How's about Sinestro? He's behind Parallax could he not be behind the Rann/ Thanagar War in some way. Kyle will be involved so it's a possibility.

Then the whole DoV thing is off handedly his fault. The only thing with this is there's no way I can connect him with either Lex, or the Thanagarians.

Also where does Dr. Light fit in with this, Dr. Light, the Titans, the Outsiders. They seem a little bit to be disinvolved but they have to be involved somehow.

I'm grabbing at straws, but hey.

I'm going to say right now though that the Spectre won't be Ted. Only because Ted has always been a good guy and doesn't seem to have anything to atone for, but I may be wrong on that too.


No, THEY may be wrong on that.
If Jean Loring can decide the best way to get a guy who's chasing her
to catch her is by carrying a gun and trying to hurt a friend, then
setting them on fire once she accidentally kills them,
then, by golly, Ted could be the Spectre.
Heck, Dan Garrett, his predecessor, could be the Spectre.
In fact, at this rate, my mother could be the Spectre if the wrong
writer happened along.
What about Spoiler? Couldn't she potentially be the new Spectre? As for Dr. Light we still don't know why he hired Deathstroke since he had no reason to know he was about to get shaken down, right?

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