Full_Moon_Werewolf77
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- Posted: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 00:32:16 +0000
couldn't hurt; you've definitely shown improvement :]
-2o
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- Posted: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 02:58:13 +0000
Having just made the decision to go back myself, I understand the bind. In general, i'd say that redoing earlier work makes sense if A) you are reasonably confident that the new result will be significantly better than the old and B) The earlier pages are so bad that you think they are detrimental to getting new readership, of C) The parts you are redoing create some sort of unworkable plot hole, continuity snarl, etc. For my part, I took a little from column A and a hell of a lot from column B.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
Full_Moon_Werewolf77
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- Posted: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 05:15:10 +0000
-2o
Having just made the decision to go back myself, I understand the bind. In general, i'd say that redoing earlier work makes sense if A) you are reasonably confident that the new result will be significantly better than the old and B) The earlier pages are so bad that you think they are detrimental to getting new readership, of C) The parts you are redoing create some sort of unworkable plot hole, continuity snarl, etc. For my part, I took a little from column A and a hell of a lot from column B.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
Thank you very much and yes I have felt that I may have an advantage with the fact I don't have to catch up on to many pages.I definitely feel for A and B currently. And Ill definitely work on those skills since I feel know I may be able to convey my panels clearer in format framing my shots better in earlier pages. I purposely wanted the beginning to not make sense and then gradually settle the strangeness since the whole first chapter begins with a dream. When I first stated the series I had no clue how to begin the story. I want to thank you for actually reading my comic all the way through it most certainty took me by surprise though but thank you for the full Critique. And Ill put those links up right away. And get to making my first pages much more understandable Thank you ever so much for your time I truly appreciate it. whee
-2o
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- Posted: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 05:34:47 +0000
Full_Moon_Werewolf77
-2o
Having just made the decision to go back myself, I understand the bind. In general, i'd say that redoing earlier work makes sense if A) you are reasonably confident that the new result will be significantly better than the old and B) The earlier pages are so bad that you think they are detrimental to getting new readership, of C) The parts you are redoing create some sort of unworkable plot hole, continuity snarl, etc. For my part, I took a little from column A and a hell of a lot from column B.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
Thank you very much and yes I have felt that I may have an advantage with the fact I don't have to catch up on to many pages.I definitely feel for A and B currently. And Ill definitely work on those skills since I feel know I may be able to convey my panels clearer in format framing my shots better in earlier pages. I purposely wanted the beginning to not make sense and then gradually settle the strangeness since the whole first chapter begins with a dream. When I first stated the series I had no clue how to begin the story. I want to thank you for actually reading my comic all the way through it most certainty took me by surprise though but thank you for the full Critique. And Ill put those links up right away. And get to making my first pages much more understandable Thank you ever so much for your time I truly appreciate it. whee
My pleasure. I'm glad you found my critique helpful.
If you've never read any of Scott McCloud's work, i'd recommend Understanding Comics and Making Comics, since they are entertaining as hell (he uses a comic format to tell you about comics, so thats pretty cool) informative and they will probably help you think about how you tell your story. There's the skill of art, the skill of writing and one of comic making in particular. These books really help you cement not only the distinction, but also help with the craft of comic making as a skill.
If that's not available to you and you're not the pirating type then go about things less directly. Study other webcomics, study scanned manga. Look at what works, and think about what made it work. Think about what doesn't and why it doesn't work. If moments move you, study how the arrangement and framing of panels affected that emotional response. Read like a comic maker and not just a comic reader. Hone all of your skills. Good luck.
Full_Moon_Werewolf77
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- Posted: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 05:40:07 +0000
-2o
Full_Moon_Werewolf77
-2o
Having just made the decision to go back myself, I understand the bind. In general, i'd say that redoing earlier work makes sense if A) you are reasonably confident that the new result will be significantly better than the old and B) The earlier pages are so bad that you think they are detrimental to getting new readership, of C) The parts you are redoing create some sort of unworkable plot hole, continuity snarl, etc. For my part, I took a little from column A and a hell of a lot from column B.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
I'd redo it. You have an advantage in that you don't have very many pages up, so we aren't talking about stopping in the middle of an important scene here. You have pretty severe clarity issues. I like non standard paneling, but even the non standard has to be clear in what it's showing (unless it's showing that something isn't clear) and your art lacks that clarity. Your paneling is confusing and your art doesn't help.
You have elements just hanging there, i'm guessing for some aesthetic reason because they don't seem to be part of the story, nor do they seem to be interacting with a background. You have pages without panels that could really use them. You frame your shots in ways that make it difficult to know what is going on.
Let me tell you something about most people: we are ******** lazy. And it gets worse with our entertainment. And as people who are lazy and doubly lazy because webcomics are not a life necessity, and as people who can find some professional quality work which is as free as your comic is, no one is getting past the first page of your comic like this.
As someone who considers themselves to be more interested in the writing than the art, I have forgiven comics for having bad/subpar art before. But I have never looked twice at a comic for which I could not understand, just by looking at the art, what was going on. Because if I have to click back and forth between pages, linger on panels, puzzle out reading order, I'm just not going to bother. If I were to encounter your comic in any other context but in the one of a critique, I absolutely would not continue past page one.
So do it over, cut back on the complexity of your panels so that you are telling a coherent story. You don't have to go completely vanilla, but tone it down. Every now and then ask yourself if your work would be readable for someone who isn't you. Think about which moments need to be framed. Do we need to see the shark in the middle of the page, or should we be watching her fall? You won't get it right all at once, no one does. But the answer to that is to stop what doesn't work and try again. This isn't working, but something else will.
EDIT: And for the love of god, if you want to post your comic on deviantart, have the link to the next page in the author comment. Because no one wants a story interrupted by random art or by drafts of a page, or by alternate versions of said page.
Thank you very much and yes I have felt that I may have an advantage with the fact I don't have to catch up on to many pages.I definitely feel for A and B currently. And Ill definitely work on those skills since I feel know I may be able to convey my panels clearer in format framing my shots better in earlier pages. I purposely wanted the beginning to not make sense and then gradually settle the strangeness since the whole first chapter begins with a dream. When I first stated the series I had no clue how to begin the story. I want to thank you for actually reading my comic all the way through it most certainty took me by surprise though but thank you for the full Critique. And Ill put those links up right away. And get to making my first pages much more understandable Thank you ever so much for your time I truly appreciate it. whee
My pleasure. I'm glad you found my critique helpful.
If you've never read any of Scott McCloud's work, i'd recommend Understanding Comics and Making Comics, since they are entertaining as hell (he uses a comic format to tell you about comics, so thats pretty cool) informative and they will probably help you think about how you tell your story. There's the skill of art, the skill of writing and one of comic making in particular. These books really help you cement not only the distinction, but also help with the craft of comic making as a skill.
If that's not available to you and you're not the pirating type then go about things less directly. Study other webcomics, study scanned manga. Look at what works, and think about what made it work. Think about what doesn't and why it doesn't work. If moments move you, study how the arrangement and framing of panels affected that emotional response. Read like a comic maker and not just a comic reader. Hone all of your skills. Good luck.
Really I havent heard of that book I'll go look for it the book I currently own is "Drawing Words and writing pictures" by Jessica Abel and Matt Madden
Aqua-regias
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- Posted: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:14:34 +0000
I would say keep going and redo them slowly inbetween updates. For one thing, if you've already got readers on the hook, they dont mind the old art and will prefer to see something new over a rehash of what they already know about the story.
For another thing, when you start doing comics, you start improving your skills at a pretty good clip (usually), and if you do redo the beginning pages you may very well find that you do a few more pages after that and the same problem happens; you'll have improved so much that, once again, the old pages don't measure up to the new ones.
I can see a lot of improvement in the links you provided, and I think the current pages are more clear and inviting to new readers, but I would NOT recommend making redoing old pages a priority.
For another thing, when you start doing comics, you start improving your skills at a pretty good clip (usually), and if you do redo the beginning pages you may very well find that you do a few more pages after that and the same problem happens; you'll have improved so much that, once again, the old pages don't measure up to the new ones.
I can see a lot of improvement in the links you provided, and I think the current pages are more clear and inviting to new readers, but I would NOT recommend making redoing old pages a priority.
Full_Moon_Werewolf77
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- Posted: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:02:20 +0000
Aqua-regias
I would say keep going and redo them slowly inbetween updates. For one thing, if you've already got readers on the hook, they dont mind the old art and will prefer to see something new over a rehash of what they already know about the story.
For another thing, when you start doing comics, you start improving your skills at a pretty good clip (usually), and if you do redo the beginning pages you may very well find that you do a few more pages after that and the same problem happens; you'll have improved so much that, once again, the old pages don't measure up to the new ones.
I can see a lot of improvement in the links you provided, and I think the current pages are more clear and inviting to new readers, but I would NOT recommend making redoing old pages a priority.
For another thing, when you start doing comics, you start improving your skills at a pretty good clip (usually), and if you do redo the beginning pages you may very well find that you do a few more pages after that and the same problem happens; you'll have improved so much that, once again, the old pages don't measure up to the new ones.
I can see a lot of improvement in the links you provided, and I think the current pages are more clear and inviting to new readers, but I would NOT recommend making redoing old pages a priority.
Oh ok thank you very much that sounds like a good idea
peahat
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- Posted: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:21:49 +0000
Aqua-regias
I would say keep going and redo them slowly inbetween updates. For one thing, if you've already got readers on the hook, they dont mind the old art and will prefer to see something new over a rehash of what they already know about the story.
For another thing, when you start doing comics, you start improving your skills at a pretty good clip (usually), and if you do redo the beginning pages you may very well find that you do a few more pages after that and the same problem happens; you'll have improved so much that, once again, the old pages don't measure up to the new ones.
I can see a lot of improvement in the links you provided, and I think the current pages are more clear and inviting to new readers, but I would NOT recommend making redoing old pages a priority.
For another thing, when you start doing comics, you start improving your skills at a pretty good clip (usually), and if you do redo the beginning pages you may very well find that you do a few more pages after that and the same problem happens; you'll have improved so much that, once again, the old pages don't measure up to the new ones.
I can see a lot of improvement in the links you provided, and I think the current pages are more clear and inviting to new readers, but I would NOT recommend making redoing old pages a priority.
I agree with this too! Unless you have some awful plot hole you need to fix, just keep going. Imho, there's no need to redo any pages at all or unless you want to print.
