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Temptress Alora's avatar

Hunter

Hana0-0Usagi
Oh, I forgot to say this, but I have a harder time with drawing guys. ^^" It would be much more rewarding for you to give me a female character.

Conveniently, the character I'm considering actually is female. So, no worries...^^
Kyousouka's avatar

Shadowy Phantom

I'm not looking for a project at the moment since I already have one, but I wanted to say this:
If I had been, I'd still have been turned off from working with you. Not by your actual projects, which sound like they have some potential to be enjoyable to work on, but by your ego, and the fact that you seem to prioritise success/popularity too much.

It's good to have confidence in your abilities and ideas, but you come off as someone more concerned about attention and novelty than making something good.
Temptress Alora's avatar

Hunter

Kyousouka
I'm not looking for a project at the moment since I already have one, but I wanted to say this:
If I had been, I'd still have been turned off from working with you. Not by your actual projects, which sound like they have some potential to be enjoyable to work on, but by your ego, and the fact that you seem to prioritise success/popularity too much.

It's good to have confidence in your abilities and ideas, but you come off as someone more concerned about attention and novelty than making something good.

I honestly don't understand where you're getting that impression from. I would very much appreciate if you were a bit more specific, because I certainly do not want to give that impression.

I DO want to create something that eventually comes to be recognized, but it's not possible to achieve that goal without the something actually being GOOD (unless it's recognized for being bad, but who on Earth would strive for that?). I am quite passionate about writing and very much enjoy dabbling in interactive media. I am nowhere near arrogant enough to think that I can just throw a website together, toss in some Flash and a little bit of story, and suddenly gold and hordes of screaming fans pop out of the woodwork. No, I am very much aware of the effort involved and of the fact that if one does not enjoy the journey just as much as the end result, their work will show it.

I don't think it's inherently bad to want or hope that something you create will come to be widely known, even heralded. If I had come into it saying that this project will be the magnum opus of the internet or that by the time we're done, people wouldn't even know what *insert insanely popular work here* is anymore, than by all means call me out on it. But I do not see how simply describing a dream of mine makes me big-headed.

As for novelty, I do want to create something that's out of the norm, but again I do not see where that'd automatically be a bad thing. I would think wanting your work to stand out among that crowed for its innovation was actually a good thing.
Kyousouka's avatar

Shadowy Phantom

The impression comes from the fact that in your threads, you start off by talking about recognition/your "brand", things like that. Your last thread was particularly egregious, but this one still has quite a bit of it.

Solution: Cut to the chase, skip the dream spiel and describe your project(s) and what you need from your collaborators right off the bat.


It's fine to want success, but here's the thing: Just about everybody wants success/recognition for their work, it's such a common thing that most people simply don't bother mentioning it. It's assumed. The people who do mention it come off as prioritising it more than those who don't, even if that's not the intention.

Solution: Same as above, cut to the chase. This'll have the added benefit of making your OP shorter and more inviting to read.


The impression that you're more concerned with novelty/success than quality comes from the fact that you spend a good chunk of your OP talking about how you want to do something different and describing the format, and the talk of format comes first. Instead of showcasing the stories and then talking about how you want to do a "different" format and how this improves the story, you talk about the format as if it's the main thing. It's like the stories are tailored to the format rather than you coming up with good story ideas and then developing a new format to tell them in the best possible way. Even if that's not your intention, that's how it comes off, at least to me.
Temptress Alora's avatar

Hunter

Kyousouka

The impression that you're more concerned with novelty/success than quality comes from the fact that you spend a good chunk of your OP talking about how you want to do something different and describing the format, and the talk of format comes first. Instead of showcasing the stories and then talking about how you want to do a "different" format and how this improves the story, you talk about the format as if it's the main thing. It's like the stories are tailored to the format rather than you coming up with good story ideas and then developing a new format to tell them in the best possible way. Even if that's not your intention, that's how it comes off, at least to me.

I'm going to have to disagree with you a bit. I can see where you would get that impression from my previous thread, though I will say that the goal with my particular wording then was to be eye-catching and inspire a sense of passion in the form of conveying my own. Apparently that's not the impression most people got, but that's why I took a different approach this time around.

My introduction in this thread is just that: an opening statement to give a bit of background as to what this is and where I hope it ends up going. There are literally two sentences that allude in any way to recognition. As for format, even if I'd dedicated considerably more space to describing it than the few sentences that are actually there, I'm not quite seeing where that would be a bad thing. If someone were pitching, say, an MMO to some big name company, they had better get pretty darn detailed with what makes their product different than the thousands of others that already exist. If I feel that part of the draw of this project is the fact that it's different, why not mention that?
Kyousouka's avatar

Shadowy Phantom

You're not pitching a new product to a bunch of execs, though. You're pitching stories to the people who'd draw them. You need a more personal connection, and that connection more often than not comes from your story, not the format.

And two sentences positioned a certain way can make quite an impact. Copywriting is a huge part of advertising courses for a reason xP
You should absolutely mention the format, I don't believe I ever said you shouldn't. I just think you need to emphasise your stories over the format, because emphasising the format (intentionally or not) makes you give off the wrong impression.
Seijaku_Ishida's avatar

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I have to agree with Kyousouka. Emphasizing format over story really makes it seem like you're searching for the next gimmick rather than having a story worth reading.
Temptress Alora's avatar

Hunter

Kyousouka
I just think you need to emphasise your stories over the format, because emphasising the format (intentionally or not) makes you give off the wrong impression.

Seijaku_Ishida
I have to agree with Kyousouka. Emphasizing format over story really makes it seem like you're searching for the next gimmick rather than having a story worth reading.

I less disagree with the sentiment and more that that's actually what I was doing. I don't even go into all that much detail in regards to the format; I merely describe how I arrived at this point. As a matter of fact, others have said that I should have been more descriptive so that I might actually get my intentions across more clearly. In my opinion, the way I have my introduction set up currently shows that I've been working on this for a while rather than it just being some idea that randomly popped up in my head a few days again, followed by me rushing immediately (and prematurely) to locate an artist.

But, if so many have taken something other than what I intended away from my post, I suppose I can update it. I wouldn't want to turn any potential partners away due to a miscommunication.
I just wanted to say, as an artist, I feel the introduction was well done.
The actual story descriptions were efficient enough to catch my attention. That's really all they should do at this point. I didn't think the tangent about format was really too big of a deal to change dramatically. It gives potential artists some background on the writer and their endeavors, plus a little exposure to the format that this story will involve.

I'm new to this forum, and maybe out of place to say these things. But honestly I don't feel there should be such an attack on the OP like this.
If there are haughty undertones, I haven't caught them. And like I said, I rather enjoy the first post, its much more descriptive than the others like it trying to find an artist.
Temptress Alora's avatar

Hunter

kittiko
I just wanted to say, as an artist, I feel the introduction was well done.
The actual story descriptions were efficient enough to catch my attention. That's really all they should do at this point. I didn't think the tangent about format was really too big of a deal to change dramatically. It gives potential artists some background on the writer and their endeavors, plus a little exposure to the format that this story will involve.

I'm new to this forum, and maybe out of place to say these things. But honestly I don't feel there should be such an attack on the OP like this.
If there are haughty undertones, I haven't caught them. And like I said, I rather enjoy the first post, its much more descriptive than the others like it trying to find an artist.

Thank you! I'm very glad to hear that someone got the impression that I was trying to convey.
This thread is a vast improvement on the last pitch, and it's good that you give as much detail as you do about what you'll be contributing and what specifically you had in mind for the scope of your project.

But one thing that gets me, and has been mentioned, is your wanting to "establish a brand" with absolutely no work behind it. I get that getting the body of work going here is your goal so that you can then establish your brand as the long term goal, but...

Again, everyone wants to establish a brand of their work, and this is assumed by virtue of the fact that they are doing the work. They have something to show, they've created something that will become their brand. Have you actually done any of the writing for your suggested story ideas? Or did you just come up with the summaries to highlight what format you wanted to utilize for a revolutionary new content presentation? Because right now, you could be writing these stories, or working on your big story, and have something real and tangible for your artist to actually work with.

I don't think dreaming big or having these bigger goals of "unique presentations" and "enthralling storylines" is bad in itself! But if it comes off as arrogant, it's because you're talking about these things before actually having any singular element to build off of. If an artist came up to you right now, ready to go, would you have a script for them to illustrate? Would you be ready to animate or add sound or whatever you want to their drawings? Would you be able to do this? And can you ensure that the result would indeed be enthralling?

Have some work built up first, get a feel for whether it's working or it's what you want, and then worry about establishing a meaningful internet presence and being heralded for your work.
Temptress Alora's avatar

Hunter

Zeo
This thread is a vast improvement on the last pitch, and it's good that you give as much detail as you do about what you'll be contributing and what specifically you had in mind for the scope of your project.

But one thing that gets me, and has been mentioned, is your wanting to "establish a brand" with absolutely no work behind it. I get that getting the body of work going here is your goal so that you can then establish your brand as the long term goal, but...

Again, everyone wants to establish a brand of their work, and this is assumed by virtue of the fact that they are doing the work. They have something to show, they've created something that will become their brand. Have you actually done any of the writing for your suggested story ideas? Or did you just come up with the summaries to highlight what format you wanted to utilize for a revolutionary new content presentation? Because right now, you could be writing these stories, or working on your big story, and have something real and tangible for your artist to actually work with.

I don't think dreaming big or having these bigger goals of "unique presentations" and "enthralling storylines" is bad in itself! But if it comes off as arrogant, it's because you're talking about these things before actually having any singular element to build off of. If an artist came up to you right now, ready to go, would you have a script for them to illustrate? Would you be ready to animate or add sound or whatever you want to their drawings? Would you be able to do this? And can you ensure that the result would indeed be enthralling?

Have some work built up first, get a feel for whether it's working or it's what you want, and then worry about establishing a meaningful internet presence and being heralded for your work.

Not everyone is interested in establishing a brand, at least not in the way I meant to convey. I actually want to create some sort of name under which multiple projects will be presented. Of course, that's hardly a unique goal considering all of the indie circles and whatnot, but there are also a good number of people who are only really focused on one project. I just figured I'd clarify.

As you stated, that is merely my long-term goal. I mention it to show what my mindset is going into this. If I was, say, an amateur vocalist in a garage band, having a long-term goal of making it big isn't something that I believe is generally looked down upon. I don't see why it should be any different in this case, as long as my work reflects my goal.

I actually would be able to get started if an artist were to contact me right now. I've been doing preliminary work in the meantime and have a bit of script written up for each. I don't know which my partner will want to focus on first, so I admittedly haven't completed any of their scripts as doing so would require me to neglect the other two, but I have enough that once we got started we could move forward at a steady pace.
Temptress Alora's avatar

Hunter

I've replace Catch with another potential project for fear that it might end up being too long. I honestly did not realize that I had so many of such similar genres. It's kinda funny, because my "ultimate" project is nothing like that.

Sort of.

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