Need some feedback on my plot and characters. (Updated!)

[growly beast]

Okay, I re-did my pitch, finally! I also included some crops of artwork I've done. I do have a few pages sketched, but they are... entirely illegible and I may not use them. But anyways, here we gooooo.

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LOG LINE

One of the last youths of a dying race leaves his home in order to prove to his resentful sister that he's capable of doing something right, but after leaving home, finds himself swept up in the drama of a society he never knew existed.

THE PITCH

His entire race is dying, but what the main character wants most is to make his sister see that he can do something right. Seen as a fool incapable of accomplishing anything (they live in a heavily oppressive matriarchal society), he steals away from home in order to see what else the world has to offer.

On his exploit, he discovers a bustling city in the middle of an industrial revolution and political upheaval. There, he is targeted by a clever swindler. With Swindler guy thinking he'll be able to pawn an exotic looking creature off for a hefty sum, things quickly begin to go awry for the main character as he is swept up in the issues of a completely foreign society.


CHARACTERS

http://growlybeast.com/iaicons/mcicon.jpg
Main Character - Seen as daft, brash, childish. After failing a simple test to prove himself worthy enough to sojourn from the city, he takes leave on his own accord to show them what for.

http://growlybeast.com/iaicons/kalicon.jpg
Kalindra - MC's elder sister. A strong woman who has had to fight to make herself what she is - a successful alchemist with a growing business. She sees her younger brother as a disgrace to the philanthropic work of their deceased mother.

http://growlybeast.com/iaicons/milalicon.jpg
Milali - Kalindra's daughter, MC's niece. The survivor of a pair of twins (the other died at birth), she is coddled by her mother to a fault, but much to her chargrin adores the MC.

http://growlybeast.com/iaicons/amazicon.jpg
Amaziah - an exile from their city, her only friend is the MC. It is unclear what she had done that is so grave to cause a dying breed to expel one of their precious few, but she seems too crazy to care.

Swindler Guy - (No pic OR name yet, because I fail.) one of the new race the MC encounters. Manipulative and self-seeking, he's very embittered to society.

Princess Isolde - (No pic, either.) Her father rules the city that the MC happened upon. Spoiled but disenchanted with her life. Wishes she was born a boy; thinks she and her mother are treated only as dolls for men to gawk at. She envies her father's knights, wishing to serve her people in a meaningful way.

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And there we have it. I hope this is easier/more interesting to read. heart

[Smegma Princess]

This is a little hard to follow but it doesn't immediately reek of crap, so...

I would suggest that you re-do your presentation with the guidelines from this thread. That sort of thing makes it a hell of a lot easier for people to give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down to a given idea.

[growly beast]

Smegma Princess

This is a little hard to follow but it doesn't immediately reek of crap, so...

I would suggest that you re-do your presentation with the guidelines from this thread. That sort of thing makes it a hell of a lot easier for people to give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down to a given idea.

Oh, hey, cool. I wish I would have found that sooner. I will try to reformat in that manner!

[Zee Coldwater]

What Smegma Princess said.

Some advice -- if you're going to have your own, original races, it's best if you distance them from pre-established fantasy races, else it's going to look like D&D with the serial numbers filed off and a fresh coat of pain.

Regarding names, both names of characters and names of races, etc. -- they should be cohesive. You have some clearly made-up names in there and then you have "Isolde". This is jarring. Names within a certain culture should have the same flavour and sound like they came from the same language. It's okay to have wildly disparate cultures with very different names, but if there's a common language, culture, or whatever, the names should all "fit" to avoid things like "The Adventures of Tim and his Best Friend Hriorka Gnashtooth".

This doesn't mean you can't use real names as a basis or just wholesale use real names. But remember how culture- and language-dependent these things are. It'll help immersion, trust me.

The same goes for "derha" and "ljosa". I can tell they're somehow tied to "dark" and "light", but they also look a little like gibberish, which should be also avoided. The way to solve this is to either put in the effort to make a conlang (this can be well-worth it or a total waste of time, depending on how badly you want to distance yourself from the real world and real languages) or to plunder some other language for roots, common syllables, etc. It's also best to keep these things to a minimum, only using the conlang for things that do not exist in the real world in any capacity and cannot be easily related to something real either.

Check out these. There's a section of "memorable posts" which is all dedicated to picking apart fantasy clichés, common mistakes in fantasy, characterization and I believe at least some discussion of conlang and naming. They should be helpful.

[growly beast]

Tovarish Groznaya

What Smegma Princess said.

Some advice -- if you're going to have your own, original races, it's best if you distance them from pre-established fantasy races, else it's going to look like D&D with the serial numbers filed off and a fresh coat of pain.

Regarding names, both names of characters and names of races, etc. -- they should be cohesive. You have some clearly made-up names in there and then you have "Isolde". This is jarring. Names within a certain culture should have the same flavour and sound like they came from the same language. It's okay to have wildly disparate cultures with very different names, but if there's a common language, culture, or whatever, the names should all "fit" to avoid things like "The Adventures of Tim and his Best Friend Hriorka Gnashtooth".

This doesn't mean you can't use real names as a basis or just wholesale use real names. But remember how culture- and language-dependent these things are. It'll help immersion, trust me.

The same goes for "derha" and "ljosa". I can tell they're somehow tied to "dark" and "light", but they also look a little like gibberish, which should be also avoided. The way to solve this is to either put in the effort to make a conlang (this can be well-worth it or a total waste of time, depending on how badly you want to distance yourself from the real world and real languages) or to plunder some other language for roots, common syllables, etc. It's also best to keep these things to a minimum, only using the conlang for things that do not exist in the real world in any capacity and cannot be easily related to something real either.

Check out these. There's a section of "memorable posts" which is all dedicated to picking apart fantasy clichés, common mistakes in fantasy, characterization and I believe at least some discussion of conlang and naming. They should be helpful.

Ohh, this is all very helpful advice. Thank you very much.

I admit it, in the beginning, both the derha and the ljosa were almost exactly like dark and light elves - I think the stigma is kind of stuck in my mind and I use those terms to kinda draw back to something "familiar" for people who aren't familiar with my story. I added "dwarf-like" in only because of their obsession with technology and machines. But I can definitely see how this is a bad thing. I don't really want to ride D&D's behind. D:

Re: names. Derha is actually taken from the Turkish word "ejderha", which means dragon. Because they look kind of draconic, have tails and claws. Ljosa is from "ljósálfar", which is Norwegian for "light elf." My inner language nerd made me do that, though I did think ljosa was a little dumb and didn't quite fit with what I wanted... that one might change.

Still, I can see how this is weird. I chose 'Isolde' because it's not a very common name and a lot of people wouldn't recognize it, but at the same time has some basis in humanoid cultures. I had decided that all the ljosa would have names from the real world (Thief Guy would also have a vaguely recognizable name, but I haven't picked his yet), while the derha ones would be largely made up. I hope this makes sense, but it still might change if other people don't get that, haha.

But yes. Thank you for that link, also - I'm going to devour that now, because it seems like an awesome source of information!

[Smegma Princess]

To add to Tovarish's post, here's more useful links about writing SF/fantasy (which I had sitting in a notes file for this very occasion):

Stories We've Seen Too Often

The Well-Tempered Plot Device

On Thud and Blunder

The Turkey City Lexicon

The Original Fiction Mary-Sue Litmus Test

[growly beast]

Smegma Princess

To add to Tovarish's post, here's more useful links about writing SF/fantasy (which I had sitting in a notes file for this very occasion):

Stories We've Seen Too Often

The Well-Tempered Plot Device

On Thud and Blunder

The Turkey City Lexicon

The Original Fiction Mary-Sue Litmus Test

Oh, so much stuff to read. This is exactly the stuff I have been searching for... thanks so much!

Aaand still editing my post, hopefully I'll have a revised and more concise version to read available later today.

[growly beast]

Changes made!

[Smegma Princess]

Seems like a solid concept, but like everything it's all going to be in the execution. Nothing immediately jumps out at me as being completely stupid, which is good. The characters seem a little flat but that's probably only because it's a short pitch.

Two things, though.

First, does the "swindler" think he's going to be able to sell off the protagonist (which is the term you should use instead of "MC" ) like a slave or something? Does that mean that slavery exists in his society? Or would they consider the protagonist like an animal of some sort?

(If you're not already familiar with it, you should read up on the "Hottentot Venus", which is a piece of history that resembles your story.)

Second, hearing the words "industrial revolution" in combination with a fantasy comic makes me think "steampunk", which is an immediate turnoff. It's like hearing somebody call their book "cyberpunk" in 1989; the wave has crested and the only way out from here is down.

A New Crobuzon-esque fantasy city with a soot-covered industrial vibe is one thing, but no zeppelins or clockwork robots or anything like that, please.

[Brown bread]

growly beast

"ljósálfar", which is Norwegian for "light elf."

That's Old Norse, not Norwegian.

[growly beast]

Smegma Princess

Seems like a solid concept, but like everything it's all going to be in the execution. Nothing immediately jumps out at me as being completely stupid, which is good. The characters seem a little flat but that's probably only because it's a short pitch.

Two things, though.

First, does the "swindler" think he's going to be able to sell off the protagonist (which is the term you should use instead of "MC" ) like a slave or something? Does that mean that slavery exists in his society? Or would they consider the protagonist like an animal of some sort?

(If you're not already familiar with it, you should read up on the "Hottentot Venus", which is a piece of history that resembles your story.)

Second, hearing the words "industrial revolution" in combination with a fantasy comic makes me think "steampunk", which is an immediate turnoff. It's like hearing somebody call their book "cyberpunk" in 1989; the wave has crested and the only way out from here is down.

A New Crobuzon-esque fantasy city with a soot-covered industrial vibe is one thing, but no zeppelins or clockwork robots or anything like that, please.

Firstly, thank you! That's certainly a relief. Indeed, I do not think the characters will be very flat - I have probably detailed their lives far too much in my spare time, but I didn't want to ramble on about each of them for the sake of consiseness.

Yes, the Swindler guy does (though in the end, it doesn't happen because he underestimates the MC). Slavery is very much a part of this society, where anything that looks peculiar or different from what the "most beautiful" by the rich's standards are. It's intentionally reminiscent of historical issues with racism, and discrimination by 'higher up' social classes. I have indeed heard of the Hottentot Venus! I've been studying a lot of racial issues at the university I go to, this is one of the many cases I've been examining.

Ahh, steampunk. I've only watched the genre rise slowly but I have never done anything to contribute to it - but I've always been obsessed with the Victorian era and fantasy settings based on it (like The Phoenix Requiem and D.Gray-man...ish), so while I don't really intend to follow the steampunk trend, it's quite important to my story.

It certainly isn't zomg steampunk! just to be cool - I wanted to be able to illustrate a society that is losing it's touch with nature and relying on technology and machines, and so. This. Additionally, I don't like writing about modern settings, don't like sci-fi, etc., but am endlessly fascinated with history, so this was a natural choice for me.

I'm not really big on every single aspect of steampunk (ray guns, robots, and zeppelins are boring to me...), but there are things I certainly love about it. I was calling my comic "half-steampunk" openly before, but I am not sure if this is a good or bad thing, to be honest.

Brown bread

growly beast

"ljósálfar", which is Norwegian for "light elf."

That's Old Norse, not Norwegian.

Oh god yeah, sorry. That's what I meant. sweatdrop