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XMegantronX
spritzi
now, i'm not claiming to be an expert or anything, but why did you pick that criss-cross tone for the skin? in my opinion, the one used in the background might give it more of a manga feel, but again, that's just my opinion. otherwise, page looks great! 3nodding


actually, in manga studio, it's just a regular dot tone. i don't know why it came out like that when i saved it. it may be because the dots are too big or maybe too spaced out? i'm still trying to figure out how to use this program. deciding the proper spacing and dot width is the most challenging part...good thing i'm not starting any mangas till next year XD gives me time to try and figure out what i'm doing.


It´s called Moiré pattern. Manga Studio creates pictures with a print-ready resolution whereas a normal monitor cannot depict all dots. It is a common problem with small dotted screen tone on the internet. If using dot-screentone for stuff on the internet I made it really really small so the dots do not become moiré but are depicted as a grey area. Here is an example for a page that I screen toned with Manga Studio. The small dots are just depicted as grey. That is the cool thing about Manga Studio - you can change the size of the dots AFTER you used a screen tone and even make it a gradation-screentone or change its pattern. biggrin
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JD-Ayane
XMegantronX
spritzi
now, i'm not claiming to be an expert or anything, but why did you pick that criss-cross tone for the skin? in my opinion, the one used in the background might give it more of a manga feel, but again, that's just my opinion. otherwise, page looks great! 3nodding


actually, in manga studio, it's just a regular dot tone. i don't know why it came out like that when i saved it. it may be because the dots are too big or maybe too spaced out? i'm still trying to figure out how to use this program. deciding the proper spacing and dot width is the most challenging part...good thing i'm not starting any mangas till next year XD gives me time to try and figure out what i'm doing.


It´s called Moiré pattern. Manga Studio creates pictures with a print-ready resolution whereas a normal monitor cannot depict all dots. It is a common problem with small dotted screen tone on the internet. If using dot-screentone for stuff on the internet I made it really really small so the dots do not become moiré but are depicted as a grey area. Here is an example for a page that I screen toned with Manga Studio. The small dots are just depicted as grey. That is the cool thing about Manga Studio - you can change the size of the dots AFTER you used a screen tone and even make it a gradation-screentone or change its pattern. biggrin


i see i see. and yeah, i noticed that i could go back and change it so i'll do just that XD thanks!

btw, your manga page looks so cool.... heart
Kyousouka's avatar

Shadowy Phantom

You should tilt your tones. It'll help prevent moire, and it'll also look better in print.

I think you should also simplify how you tone. Focus on showing the forms and establishing mood and lighting. Do with tones what you can't do with the lineart, but need to do. Over-detailing will only make your art more difficult to read.
On a related note: Light sources. You need to know where the light is coming from if you want to have any kind of shading. When you don't, it just looks weird.

I am seconding that you change the font you use.

On speech bubbles:
- For B&W art, keep them white with black borders unless you really need to do some special effect. Simplicity is usually best.
- Make the borders thicker. They should be at least as thick as the average line thickness on your character art when using a thin-ish line style like yours. With really thin lines, they feel too much like part of the background (even when overlapping characters).
- Don't make them larger than they need to be. They should be just large enough to give the text breathing room, and no larger (the exception is whispers, where smaller text with a larger bubble gives the impression of quiet speech). I realise you're trying to go for the manga look here, but consider what's more important to you - making it look like a poorly lettered translation, or making the comic pleasant and easy to read?

You positioned the bubbles fairly well here, so if that wasn't a fluke, good job! And if it was, the "trick" to successful bubble positioning is to lead the eye around the art, and to make the bubble and panel order unambiguous.
XMegantronX
Redfox44
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Really cute Picture 4laugh

I would use a differient font than Comic Sans MS I like to use "Anime Ace" or "LetterOMatic!"
when it comes to a good comic book font but then again to each their own heart


XD i'll check those out. i was actually going to start looking up fonts soon, so this helps! thanks! ^^

I had the same problem going on with my manga people liked the story but the they all kept saying I should change the font XD I have to say when I look at it now It looks more pro and clean.


i see ^^ i'll play with a few to see which one fits best. thanks!

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Kyousouka
You should tilt your tones. It'll help prevent moire, and it'll also look better in print.

I think you should also simplify how you tone. Focus on showing the forms and establishing mood and lighting. Do with tones what you can't do with the lineart, but need to do. Over-detailing will only make your art more difficult to read.
On a related note: Light sources. You need to know where the light is coming from if you want to have any kind of shading. When you don't, it just looks weird.

I am seconding that you change the font you use.

On speech bubbles:
- For B&W art, keep them white with black borders unless you really need to do some special effect. Simplicity is usually best.
- Make the borders thicker. They should be at least as thick as the average line thickness on your character art when using a thin-ish line style like yours. With really thin lines, they feel too much like part of the background (even when overlapping characters).
- Don't make them larger than they need to be. They should be just large enough to give the text breathing room, and no larger (the exception is whispers, where smaller text with a larger bubble gives the impression of quiet speech). I realise you're trying to go for the manga look here, but consider what's more important to you - making it look like a poorly lettered translation, or making the comic pleasant and easy to read?

You positioned the bubbles fairly well here, so if that wasn't a fluke, good job! And if it was, the "trick" to successful bubble positioning is to lead the eye around the art, and to make the bubble and panel order unambiguous.


well, i did read up on how to position bubbles and i seem to be good at composition in the way that the eye is lead around in my work.

i thought i did ok showing that the light source is coming from the right, but point out why that's confusing so i'll know.

XDDDD working on the text
Kyousouka's avatar

Shadowy Phantom

XMegantronX
i thought i did ok showing that the light source is coming from the right, but point out why that's confusing so i'll know.

Looking at it closer, the lighting is consistent with a single light direction. The problem is a mix of two things:
- the shadows are not consistent with the forms of the subjects. For example, the girl's hand has a lot of shadow on it, but her back is almost all in light. This makes no sense.
- the shapes aren't simplified enough, but "realistic" shadows tend to not look good in tones due to being too heavy

Consider why you need shadows. With tones like this, you can't show all the shadows that would realistically exist, because you'd just make a grey mess. You need to pick and choose shadows with a purpose. What is that purpose? To make the various shapes easy to read? To establish a mood?
You seem to be just playing shadows where you think they go, without any cohesive thought or pattern to it, and that's why it's confusing.
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Kyousouka
XMegantronX
i thought i did ok showing that the light source is coming from the right, but point out why that's confusing so i'll know.

Looking at it closer, the lighting is consistent with a single light direction. The problem is a mix of two things:
- the shadows are not consistent with the forms of the subjects. For example, the girl's hand has a lot of shadow on it, but her back is almost all in light. This makes no sense.
- the shapes aren't simplified enough, but "realistic" shadows tend to not look good in tones due to being too heavy

Consider why you need shadows. With tones like this, you can't show all the shadows that would realistically exist, because you'd just make a grey mess. You need to pick and choose shadows with a purpose. What is that purpose? To make the various shapes easy to read? To establish a mood?
You seem to be just playing shadows where you think they go, without any cohesive thought or pattern to it, and that's why it's confusing.


oh, ok i see what you mean now. i'll definitely change that then. i ordered the "how to draw manga computones" book series to help me better understand how to use screen tones. so far it's probably one of the more helpful "how to draw manga" books XD
Kyousouka's avatar

Shadowy Phantom

Be mindful that "technique" books are often weak on the theory of how to best apply the technique, and vice versa. So, don't take their examples as the right way to do everything. Think critically :]
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Kyousouka
Be mindful that "technique" books are often weak on the theory of how to best apply the technique, and vice versa. So, don't take their examples as the right way to do everything. Think critically :]


yeah, it's especially bad in most "how to draw manga" books and i have found a few applications i've disagreed on, but for the most part it's helpful when explaining what kind of tone looks good on a surface and stuff like that ^^
Kyousouka's avatar

Shadowy Phantom

XMegantronX
Kyousouka
Be mindful that "technique" books are often weak on the theory of how to best apply the technique, and vice versa. So, don't take their examples as the right way to do everything. Think critically :]


yeah, it's especially bad in most "how to draw manga" books and i have found a few applications i've disagreed on, but for the most part it's helpful when explaining what kind of tone looks good on a surface and stuff like that ^^

I haven't read that specific book, but that's exactly what I'm talking about - they're talking about theory instead of just technique. Some tones look better in certain situations in certain styles. Change the style, and you change those match-ups. So, you need to think for yourself to figure out what looks best where in your artwork. It might feel like reinventing the wheel sometimes, but it'll make your art better in the long run.
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Kyousouka
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Kyousouka
Be mindful that "technique" books are often weak on the theory of how to best apply the technique, and vice versa. So, don't take their examples as the right way to do everything. Think critically :]


yeah, it's especially bad in most "how to draw manga" books and i have found a few applications i've disagreed on, but for the most part it's helpful when explaining what kind of tone looks good on a surface and stuff like that ^^

I haven't read that specific book, but that's exactly what I'm talking about - they're talking about theory instead of just technique. Some tones look better in certain situations in certain styles. Change the style, and you change those match-ups. So, you need to think for yourself to figure out what looks best where in your artwork. It might feel like reinventing the wheel sometimes, but it'll make your art better in the long run.


Alright, I'll be sure to experiment a lot a see what works.
Well I'm not sure if this helps but here are the two way's I know of for doing dot tones in Photoshop.
1) draw in the aria in grey on a separate layer from your line art. Then select the aria use "filter" - "pixilate" - "color half tone".
2) The other way I know of is to download or make dot patterns you then use with the paint bucket. ( I found the ones I've used on Deviant art)

I've had mixed luck with using these techniques especially for posting online. The pixels of computer screens have a lower resolution then you get in printing. It's best to work at the resolution people will see it to avoid mori patterns that will show up if you change the size.
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Lilith Pell
Well I'm not sure if this helps but here are the two way's I know of for doing dot tones in Photoshop.
1) draw in the aria in grey on a separate layer from your line art. Then select the aria use "filter" - "pixilate" - "color half tone".
2) The other way I know of is to download or make dot patterns you then use with the paint bucket. ( I found the ones I've used on Deviant art)

I've had mixed luck with using these techniques especially for posting online. The pixels of computer screens have a lower resolution then you get in printing. It's best to work at the resolution people will see it to avoid mori patterns that will show up if you change the size.


i tried the first thing and i couldn't get it to work. so now i'm basically gathering screen tones and converting them into patterns myself XD

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