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Seijaku_Ishida
poison dynasty
Okay I will first off saying comic's are turned down left and right in today's media due to the fact that comic's can be read online and there is no need to get out of your house if a comic is a click away that is what most matter's.

How does this make sense? I'm trying to understand your logic, but I can't wrap my head around it.

Comics are being turned down by publishers(who are in it to make money) because comics can be read online(for free). How...does this make sense? These two 'markets' don't often intersect.

The comics online don't have the benefit of an editor, quality control, or marketing. That is a service a publisher provides. As a result many online comics are hard to find and/or lacking in quality. While it's not a hard and fast 'you get what you pay for', since there are a lot of amazing webcomics out there, there is still a reason publishers exist.

The only way I can make sense of this statement is that publishers need to up their game BECAUSE there's a lot of amazing comics available for free. But that's not particularly true either, since webcomics usually cater to a niche.


I like your sig comic. "Evil cuddles" lol
Krazehcakes
IronSpike
Clover_IceQueen
[
No one said I was pissed, and he is well aware of our existence. I wasn't the one who called Oni Press "snobbish" so you should quote the person who did and lecture him or her about it.


And you didn't disagree with them, either. And call me skeptical about Bryan, unless you consider an @ on Twitter or slipping him a freebie at a con "aware of your existence."


No they're pretty snobbish. Before Scott Pilgrim became a huge hit they were very open to mostly any comics sent their way and gave it a decent gander or two. My classmate (who's now working professionally for IMAGE's Skull Kickers) is a fantastic artist, far better than Bryan and 90% of the titles that Oni published but when he had his review they basically told him they wouldn't publish his work or hook him up with anything unless he drew a 16 page comic of THEIR story without any pay or compensation as a test.

The point of that is ridiculous when he brought his entire portfolio, a completed mini comic of his solid storytelling skills in his art and they turned their noses unless they made him draw for free.
And portfolio reviews a valid hook up but they're pretty much waiting for another comic bryan will cra out before even trying a new and more talented artist.

They're snobs because they didn't hand your friend a paying contract on the spot? You do realize that Oni is a pretty small company with not a lot of money to go around, right? And it's not like Bryan Lee O'Malley was handed a multi-book contract as soon as he talked to Oni, either. He started doing small things like lettering and toning, as well as test stories in the Oni anthology Hopeless Savages. Then, he got a contract for Lost At Sea, a one-shot graphic novel, which THEN led to him getting the opportunity to do Scott Pilgrim with them. He had to pay his dues, same as everyone else.

I'm sorry about your talented friend struggling with publishers, but that's the way of the industry, unfortunately. It certainly doesn't make Oni a bunch of snobs. (I've talked to several of them, and they're quite nice, actually.) If you want to REALLY get thrown for a loop, try approaching any of the major book publishers. Many of them won't even talk to you without an agent! You have to know the industry you're in, and accusing those who don't bend to your desires of being snobs is definitely the wrong way to get ahead. The American comics industry is a small pond. Word gets around, good and bad.

To the OP, my advice is not to worry about getting a publisher yet. If you're getting rejected by everyone, take that as a sign and work on your skills independently for a few years. Put your work online where everyone can read it, build a fanbase, get feedback, grow as storytellers. When you've demonstrated that you can dedicate yourselves to a project and produce something people will read, publishers may actually approach YOU. In that case, you're in a much better position to get the sort of contract you want. And if they don't, you can always reapply with a stronger body of work or just stay independent. Going indie is a large investment, but the rewards are great.

When you do decide to apply to more publishers, I also advise that you check the submission guidelines of those you want to talk to, and follow them to the letter. Here's a tip: if a publisher doesn't accept unsolicited submissions, make an inquiry to their editorial staff and see if they'd like to see something from you. If they say "yes," then any submission you send them will be solicited, and likely to actually be read.
Seijaku_Ishida
How does this make sense? I'm trying to understand your logic, but I can't wrap my head around it.


I am saying it happen's you get accepted or you don't get accepted

Quote:
Comics are being turned down by publishers(who are in it to make money) because comics can be read online(for free). How...does this make sense? These two 'markets' don't often intersect.


True, but I am sure I said (I may have said this in another forum) why go out and buy a comic if you can just sit at home and read one? True those two market's don't go together usually but most people follow the webcomics the most today.

Quote:
The comics online don't have the benefit of an editor, quality control, or marketing. That is a service a publisher provides. As a result many online comics are hard to find and/or lacking in quality. While it's not a hard and fast 'you get what you pay for', since there are a lot of amazing webcomics out there, there is still a reason publishers exist.


Okay you had me then you lost me. But true webcomic's don't have any of your following which is true a reason why the publisher exsist's is self explanatory I have no need to explain it since you already did.

Quote:
The only way I can make sense of this statement is that publishers need to up their game BECAUSE there's a lot of amazing comics available for free. But that's not particularly true either, since webcomics usually cater to a niche.


Bingo!!! you just answered what I said.I am not being sarcastic but that is what I see publisher's lack today is there not up there game and usually are beginning to worry more upon money and less upon the creator's.
There's a lot of competition...keep trying
Krazehcakes

No they're pretty snobbish. Before Scott Pilgrim became a huge hit they were very open to mostly any comics sent their way and gave it a decent gander or two. My classmate (who's now working professionally for IMAGE's Skull Kickers) is a fantastic artist, far better than Bryan and 90% of the titles that Oni published but when he had his review they basically told him they wouldn't publish his work or hook him up with anything unless he drew a 16 page comic of THEIR story without any pay or compensation as a test.

The point of that is ridiculous when he brought his entire portfolio, a completed mini comic of his solid storytelling skills in his art and they turned their noses unless they made him draw for free.
And portfolio reviews a valid hook up but they're pretty much waiting for another comic bryan will cra out before even trying a new and more talented artist.


Again, none of this makes Oni "snobbish."

For the record, I know Zub. I crash with him and Stacy every time I do TCAF. And I know all about Skullkickers (Zub is rightfully proud of it), so I have a pretty good idea who your friend probably is. And I agree, he's technically accomplished. But that doesn't obligate anyone to hire him. I don't care if his portfolio belongs on a wall in the Louvre. Them's the breaks. Comics ain't easy. I know a lot of great artists who can't get a publisher's attention. This isn't a deficit of Oni's; this is life. And life's not a meritocracy aligned with your personal tastes.

Oni was more than likely deluged with unsolicited pitches and portfolios after Scott Pilgrim's success; everybody wants to work with a publisher that gets their guys movies. It's only sensible they would change their policy on submissions if that was the case. If your friend wanted to work with them as badly as you suggest, he would have just done the friggin' art test.

Tests like that exist because comics is about more than good art. Oni has a tone it favors, and it wanted to see if your friend was up to scratch. A lot of companies do art tests. Wizards of the Coast, for example. And the fact that you're treating an art test as a slur on your friend's honor is goddamn bizarre.
Krazehcakes's avatar

Dapper Ladykiller

IronSpike
Krazehcakes

No they're pretty snobbish. Before Scott Pilgrim became a huge hit they were very open to mostly any comics sent their way and gave it a decent gander or two. My classmate (who's now working professionally for IMAGE's Skull Kickers) is a fantastic artist, far better than Bryan and 90% of the titles that Oni published but when he had his review they basically told him they wouldn't publish his work or hook him up with anything unless he drew a 16 page comic of THEIR story without any pay or compensation as a test.

The point of that is ridiculous when he brought his entire portfolio, a completed mini comic of his solid storytelling skills in his art and they turned their noses unless they made him draw for free.
And portfolio reviews a valid hook up but they're pretty much waiting for another comic bryan will cra out before even trying a new and more talented artist.


Again, none of this makes Oni "snobbish."

For the record, I know Zub. I crash with him and Stacy every time I do TCAF. And I know all about Skullkickers (Zub is rightfully proud of it), so I have a pretty good idea who your friend probably is. And I agree, he's technically accomplished. But that doesn't obligate anyone to hire him. I don't care if his portfolio belongs on a wall in the Louvre. Them's the breaks. Comics ain't easy. I know a lot of great artists who can't get a publisher's attention. This isn't a deficit of Oni's; this is life. And life's not a meritocracy aligned with your personal tastes.

Oni was more than likely deluged with unsolicited pitches and portfolios after Scott Pilgrim's success; everybody wants to work with a publisher that gets their guys movies. It's only sensible they would change their policy on submissions if that was the case. If your friend wanted to work with them as badly as you suggest, he would have just done the friggin' art test.

Tests like that exist because comics is about more than good art. Oni has a tone it favors, and it wanted to see if your friend was up to scratch. A lot of companies do art tests. Wizards of the Coast, for example. And the fact that you're treating an art test as a slur on your friend's honor is goddamn bizarre.


I dont think you know the artist if you think he's "all about the art". We're both cartoonists and he's all about comics and placing art in a narrative form. Also his pitches weren't unsolicited. If Oni does open portfolio reviews that's an open invite not him sending his work to their office for them to shred in a paper shredder. Also even if Bryan Lee O'Malley did work on toning and inking before he got published he still received SOME compensation, They offered my friend none.

A portfolio is the stepping stones in, what you show should display your skills as is, a drawing test of Comic pages for free should be unnecessary (unless they were serious) so it goes to show they didn't even bother to look at his stuff carefully at all and really just strung him along. to say "Draw for us for free and then maybe we'll think about it eh" doesn't sit well with me as a person. People can love the Oni guys all they like but its pretty sour grapes for me.

I'm not so narrow minded that i assume All publishers open the doors for everyone, dont put assumptions in my mouth, i know they're nitpicky and very selective, All publishers from big names to small Indies do. This is necessary. but I've been to portfolio reviews myself and my friends and even when rejected they're pretty graceful or at least dead honest to us. The process my friend was given and no real contact after just seemed really snobbish as if he has to give blood before even looked at.
Krazehcakes
I dont think you know the artist if you think he's "all about the art". We're both cartoonists and he's all about comics and placing art in a narrative form. Also his pitches weren't unsolicited. If Oni does open portfolio reviews that's an open invite not him sending his work to their office for them to shred in a paper shredder. Also even if Bryan Lee O'Malley did work on toning and inking before he got published he still received SOME compensation, They offered my friend none.

A portfolio is the stepping stones in, what you show should display your skills as is, a drawing test of Comic pages for free should be unnecessary (unless they were serious) so it goes to show they didn't even bother to look at his stuff carefully at all and really just strung him along. to say "Draw for us for free and then maybe we'll think about it eh" doesn't sit well with me as a person. People can love the Oni guys all they like but its pretty sour grapes for me.

I'm not so narrow minded that i assume All publishers open the doors for everyone, dont put assumptions in my mouth, i know they're nitpicky and very selective, All publishers from big names to small Indies do. This is necessary. but I've been to portfolio reviews myself and my friends and even when rejected they're pretty graceful or at least dead honest to us. The process my friend was given and no real contact after just seemed really snobbish as if he has to give blood before even looked at.

Welp, I tried. You obviously aren't interested in listening to reason from people actually working in the industry. I hope the OP is a bit more amenable.
The more stubborn and personal your grudge becomes and the less willing you are to acknowledge reason, the less convinced I am we're actually talking about your "friend."

But hey, maybe it's just me.
Maybe your artist should practice drawing more before sending your comic to publishers. The art in that link is pretty amateurish. Can't say much about the writing since there's only a few pages and they all seem out of context.
Krazehcakes's avatar

Dapper Ladykiller

IronSpike
The more stubborn and personal your grudge becomes and the less willing you are to acknowledge reason, the less convinced I am we're actually talking about your "friend."

But hey, maybe it's just me.


just as how an artist's personality greatly impacts on the willingness to support an artist's work my opinion of them is that they're snobbish. Its an opinion of which i gave reasons for. You both went up and arms about it and called me ignorant as if i don't know the process of publishing? I very well do. but on a personal level i don't like the company. Many book companies dont accept public submissions without an agent/ recommendation/ open portfolio review, but Oni just makes that step even more winding.

Many would say DC and marvel's methods arent very highly looked upon during their previous NY Comic Con but there's is also very stream lined and not many feelings get hurt. You send them scans of your portfolio and they simply put em up on a board. But I personally don't like an indeffinite "test" after viewing a portfolio for no compensation. That may be their method but it seems like stringing an artist along.

My friend's a nice guy and i'm thrilled he's making his way as a cartoonist on his own. u___u I'm really hoping he shows those Oni guys next time. we're not really in a world where we can draw comic pages for nothing.
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Krazehcakes

Just some advice: the art world is very very tiny. The size of a shoebox. Be very, very careful what you say -- everybody knows everybody and your words could come back to haunt you.

Anyway -- @OP, your artist isn't very good, I'm guessing that's one of the things that isn't helping your cause.
Krazehcakes's avatar

Dapper Ladykiller

Fansub
Krazehcakes

Just some advice: the art world is very very tiny. The size of a shoebox. Be very, very careful what you say -- everybody knows everybody and your words could come back to haunt you.

Anyway -- @OP, your artist isn't very good, I'm guessing that's one of the things that isn't helping your cause.


Yes i'm aware x). Especially in comic circles.
But its an opinion that really hit a chord in me that i didn't like. I'm not a huge fan of Oni.

as for OP, have you thought of maybe self publishing? If a publishing company doesnt pick it up it doesnt mean you cant promote it yourself. It'll be far harder and more work but its better than your story not being heard at all?
don't think your comic would please the mainstream, at all.

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