Wicca

[GaijinGuy36]

neko wyndy wytch

Gaijin32

neko wyndy wytch

Gaijin32

neko wyndy wytch

The proper rites and Rituals. Wicca is not about belief. It's about practice. Wiccan doctrine states that the rites and rituals must be practiced a specific way. otherwise the rites and rituals are not Wiccan.

Silly, silly. All religions are about faith before anything else. The rest is just window dressing. It's what's in your heart that matters most. I'm secure in my faith, and feel Their love even when I have noone else. I'm Wiccan, I'm Solitary, and I'm happy. Cope.

Wica is an oathbound tradition- that is to say, the Wica swear oaths to defend and uphold the tradition and protect it.
Wica is a Experiential. That means that it as a religion is less about what you read and more about how being part of the cult and participating therein effects you.
Wica is a Mystery Cult. There are secrets, in both gnosis and informative forms, that are not revealed to the uninitiated.
Wica is Orthopraxic. It isn't about what you believe, but how you do things. This is of course in place to preserve the Experiential Mystery elements.
Wica is made completely of Clergy. This means that all the Wica are priests and priestesses.
Wica is an initiatory religion. This means that for you to be part of it, you have to be inducted ritualistically by other members of the Wica. This again preserves the Oathbound, Experiential Mystery dynamic

And if your heart isn't in any of it, you're just acting out empty rites. Just going through the motions, as it were. And I'm done with that. Hell, that's why I veered away from Catholicism. The same old prayers and songs just didn't fill me spirit with what I needed any more. I found something that did, and by the powers, I'm sticking to it.

Read the bolded again. It's about practice not beliefs. Wiccans dont believe in their Gods. They know their Gods through ritual.

Gaijin32

I say again, I'm Wiccan, Solitary, and damn proud. For the record, though, I was a part of an on-post Wiccan circle at Ft. Lewis, and a member of White Shadow Coven, in Milwaukee for a bit. I have both solo and group experience.

And what was the lineage of that coven? I repeate: Wicca" refers specifically to the lineaged, initiatory mystery religion with roots in the New Forest region of Great Britain, manifested today through various "traditions" all linked with a common ancestry back to the New Forest area. "Wiccans" or "The Wica" are the properly lineaged, properly initiated members of those Traditions.

Yey, you can bold copypasta from Wiccan websites. rolleyes

I say again, I know what works for me, and I use it. If that means you want to call me Neo-Wiccan or whatever, I don't care. For me, it's not about labels and stuffy, hidebound old traditions, Myself, I don't really care about the roots back in Britain. I'm not even partly English. But in the eyes of The Divine Ones, bloodlines matter less than the contents of your heart.

[Loona Wynd]

Prophet of Poison

neko wyndy wytch

In your view maybe, but not to me. Titles like what one calls themselves in regards to religion can be sacred. To be Wiccan one earns the title through initiation and proper practices. You can't just one day decide to be Wiccan and that's it. It requires training and a way of life.

Then it seems we are at an impasse.

We are. I stand firm that some titles are sacred and others are earned (Wiccan is both).

Prophet of Poison

neko wyndy wytch

Actually the requirements of the Gods do that. Wiccans are clergy of their Gods. They have specific requirements for the way that they act with other people. Thus they act accordingly.

That requires some pretty heavy assumptions. Like the idea that those Gods exist and even if they do, that they aren't lying to you. All that aside, that has nothing to do with the label.

Wiccans know their Gods because of ritual experiences and the mysteries there in. Wiccans experience heir Gods in rituals. As such they are very real.

Prophet of Poison

neko wyndy wytch

How many serious Pagans have you met?

I've never met one in person, but I've observed maybe like 5-6.

Thats part of your problem. I have been pagan for 10 years (I was a seeker for many, and sought Christianity as well). I am very devoted to my path and all it means. As such it is not a Fad.

[Loona Wynd]

Gaijin32

Yey, you can bold copy paste from Wiccan websites. rolleyes

Provide proof that the bolded aren't what makes you Wiccan. An academic source would be nice.

Gaijin32

I say again, I know what works for me, and I use it.

And I'm not sying your practice isn't valid. I'm saying that it's not Wicca proper. It may be based off the public face of Wicca, but it is not and never will be Wicca proper.

Gaijin32

If that means you want to call me Neo-Wiccan or whatever, I don't care.

Which is a bit of a false name, but yeah basically. Neo-Wicca is based off Wicca proper. It doesn't have the sm,e requirements of Wicca. Hell the deities may not even be the same. There is no way to know for sure as that if oath bound information.

Gaijin32

For me, it's not about labels and stuffy, hidebound old traditions, Myself, I don't really care about the roots back in Britain. I'm not even partly English. But in the eyes of The Divine Ones, bloodlines matter less than the contents of your heart.

Bloodlines aren't important. Training lineage is. That's the difference.

[GaijinGuy36]

neko wyndy wytch

Gaijin32

Yey, you can bold copy paste from Wiccan websites. rolleyes

Provide proof that the bolded aren't what makes you Wiccan. An academic source would be nice.

Gaijin32

I say again, I know what works for me, and I use it.

And I'm not sying your practice isn't valid. I'm saying that it's not Wicca proper. It may be based off the public face of Wicca, but it is not and never will be Wicca proper.

Gaijin32

If that means you want to call me Neo-Wiccan or whatever, I don't care.

Which is a bit of a false name, but yeah basically. Neo-Wicca is based off Wicca proper. It doesn't have the sm,e requirements of Wicca. Hell the deities may not even be the same. There is no way to know for sure as that if oath bound information.

Gaijin32

For me, it's not about labels and stuffy, hidebound old traditions, Myself, I don't really care about the roots back in Britain. I'm not even partly English. But in the eyes of The Divine Ones, bloodlines matter less than the contents of your heart.

Bloodlines aren't important. Training lineage is. That's the difference.

So I'm more of a transitionalist rather than a traditionalist. It doesn't invalidate my faith to me. And, no, I'm not going to dig through academic sites to 'back up' my words. I answer to higher powers than you, and that's all I feel I need to say. I've been trained in group rites while in circle and coven, and even served as Man in Black. Did quite a good job, too, I'll say. I just haven't been able to find any covens in my area, so I keep the faith on my own, and observe what sabbats and esbats I can, as my schedule allows.

Hey, it keeps me going, and that's what's really important in the big picture, right?

[Prince of Fish]

neko wyndy wytch

Wiccans know their Gods because of ritual experiences and the mysteries there in. Wiccans experience heir Gods in rituals. As such they are very real.

During the War of The Worlds radio broadcast panic, people claimed to see UFOs and smell the martians poison gas. My point being that a few people experiencing something is a pretty loose excuse to call something real. At least by the standards of modern logic. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the illogical, but if you are going to say something is real by a logical standard, then maybe you'd need something a bit more physical to claim so. None of that addresses the idea that their gods might just be ******** with them.

Just so we are clear, you are aware that this still has nothing to do with the Wiccan label, right?

neko wyndy wytch

Thats part of your problem. I have been pagan for 10 years (I was a seeker for many, and sought Christianity as well). I am very devoted to my path and all it means. As such it is not a Fad.

I'm not saying you or everyone who is a pagan is following a fad. That would just be silly. I'm saying that from what I've seen, on the internet at least, paganism is trendy.

[JenovaCelestia]

One thing about Wicca that isn't known to those wannabe's who think they're "unique" or "individuals" for worshiping a Sun God/Moon Goddess, is that you have to be accepted into a coven. Yes, most Wiccans practice alone. However, they do come together and celebrate the 6 Wiccan holidays together. You see, Wiccans normally exclude people who are just in it for the thrill or just to brag about it. You have to have a sincere dedication to it. The key here is if you don't know what Wiccan is truly about, you'll never be accepted in the Wiccan community.

[Loona Wynd]

Gaijin32

So I'm more of a transitionalist rather than a traditionalist.

Which is fine as long as you know it's not Wicca proper. Wicca proper has specific requirements. Neo-Wicca does not. Neo-Wicca is about faith and belief, while Wicca proper is about practice.

Gaijin32

It doesn't invalidate my faith to me.

I'm not trying to invalidate your faith. ******** I encourage people to believe what they want to believe. My only issue is the misuse of a title of a religion that is properly earned through iniation. The religion has requirements. Don't meet them, don't call yourself Wiccan.

Gaijin32

And, no, I'm not going to dig through academic sites to 'back up' my words.

Well You made a claim. I'm asking you to back it up. The statements I gave come from lineaged Wiccans. As such I'll take their word on the matter. They are authorities (having been in the craft more than 20 years in some cases).

Gaijin32

I answer to higher powers than you, and that's all I feel I need to say.

Who is that higher power though? With out initiation you have no idea if they are the Lord and Lady of Wicca. Eclectic neopaganism doesn't have specific deities. There are tradition specific deities, and there are also other deities, but that does not make them the God and Goddess of Wicca. By the way are you a soft polytheist (All Gods are one God all Goddesses one Goddess) or a Hard polytheist (all Gods are unique distinct entities)? That plays a part in if you are Wiccan Proper or not.

Gaijin32

I've been trained in group rites while in circle and coven, and even served as Man in Black. Did quite a good job, too, I'll say.

Never heard of the position of Man in Black. Can you describe it for me?

Gaijin32

I just haven't been able to find any covens in my area, so I keep the faith on my own, and observe what sabbats and esbats I can, as my schedule allows.

Which is fine. However the rites and rituals of Wicca proper require a coven environment. Neo-Wicca does not. By the common definition I would be a neo-Wiccan. I am not a proper Wiccan. Thus I don't typically use it as my religious preference. I mostly call myself witch and that's fine with me.

Gaijin32

Hey, it keeps me going, and that's what's really important in the big picture, right?

That depends on if you are following an orthopraxic or Orthodox religion.

[Loona Wynd]

Prophet of Poison

neko wyndy wytch

Wiccans know their Gods because of ritual experiences and the mysteries there in. Wiccans experience heir Gods in rituals. As such they are very real.

During the War of The Worlds radio broadcast panic, people claimed to see UFOs and smell the martians poison gas. My point being that a few people experiencing something is a pretty loose excuse to call something real. At least by the standards of modern logic. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the illogical, but if you are going to say something is real by a logical standard, then maybe you'd need something a bit more physical to claim so. None of that addresses the idea that their gods might just be ******** with them.

There is no concrete proof of the existance of any Gods, that is true. This is why you have personal Gnosis and experience. As for the Gods ******** with them, I can't say either way. I mean really couldn't you say that any God was ******** with their followers?

Prophet of Poison

Just so we are clear, you are aware that this still has nothing to do with the Wiccan label, right?

In so far as it has to deal with specific Gods yes it does. The Gods of Wicca are specific to that religion. Being Wiccan means you follow those specific Gods.

Prophet of Poison

neko wyndy wytch

Thats part of your problem. I have been pagan for 10 years (I was a seeker for many, and sought Christianity as well). I am very devoted to my path and all it means. As such it is not a Fad.

I'm not saying you or everyone who is a pagan is following a fad. That would just be silly. I'm saying that from what I've seen, on the internet at least, paganism is trendy.

I don't think it's that. I think that online people are more free to be themselves as you can give yourself animosity.

[GaijinGuy36]

I'd say I'm a hard polytheist, yes. I recognize all deities as individuals, rather than 'all are one'.

As for Man in Black, it's a position of guardianship for the coven, while everyone is doing ritual. Everyone who enters the circle must answer a set of questions put forth by the MIB, and be accepted in if their answers are sufficient. (For most educated, genuine Wiccans, it's not hard, but tougher for the fluffy fad-chasers.) As guardian of the circle, he would also do whatever was needed should anyone come to disrupt a ritual. Warning folks off first, and trying to keep any confrontation non-violent. If it did escalate, though, he was expected to give as well as he got, if not better. Traditionally, the MIB was also charged with finding and retrieving any who had done anything to betray the coven. Hence, another nickname for him is The Fetch. He would bring any traitors back to the High Priest and High Priestess for punishment, and it was usually carried out by his hand.

And that's what I can remember now. It's been quite a few years since those days. I'll be honest, I miss them.

[Prince of Fish]

neko wyndy wytch

There is no concrete proof of the existance of any Gods, that is true. This is why you have personal Gnosis and experience. As for the Gods ******** with them, I can't say either way. I mean really couldn't you say that any God was ******** with their followers?

Yep 3nodding

neko wyndy wytch

In so far as it has to deal with specific Gods yes it does. The Gods of Wicca are specific to that religion. Being Wiccan means you follow those specific Gods.

I meant that it has nothing to do with the label changing anything.

neko wyndy wytch

I don't think it's that. I think that online people are more free to be themselves as you can give yourself animosity.

Maybe, but I've observed bisexuality and atheism as a fad IRL and on the internet. I'd be willing to bet paganism as a fad carries over IRL as all the others have. I'm just talking out of my a** though, of course. After I got out of High School I haven't gotten out much. I've probably just missed the fad.

[Loona Wynd]

JenovaCelestia

One thing about Wicca that isn't known to those wannabe's who think they're "unique" or "individuals" for worshiping a Sun God/Moon Goddess, is that you have to be accepted into a coven.

For Wicca proper yes.For eclectic neopaganism not so much. Eclectic neopaganism (or what most books refer to as Wicca) is a religion where you can be solitary. You do not need to be in a coven or obtain any initiation to be a practitioner of those religions. There are some specific traditions and religions (like Wicca) that require it, but not all pagan faiths do. Many of them do not.

JenovaCelestia

Yes, most Wiccans practice alone.

No Wiccan practices solitary. The rites and rituals of Wicca are designed specifically for the coven. The only time one is a solitary Wiccan is if for some reason they loose contact with their coven. In that situation they are still Wiccan, but the rites and rituals are no longer Wiccan as Wiccas rites and rituals require a coven.

JenovaCelestia

However, they do come together and celebrate the 6 Wiccan holidays together

There are 8 sabbats in Wicca. 8 Sabbats of Witches by Janet and Stweart Farrar.

JenovaCelestia

. You see, Wiccans normally exclude people who are just in it for the thrill or just to brag about it.

In order to become Wiccan one must be a proper person in the eyes of the coven. This excludes those who seek to obtain initiation for the sake of initiation, and title/degree collectors.

JenovaCelestia

You have to have a sincere dedication to it. The key here is if you don't know what Wiccan is truly about, you'll never be accepted in the Wiccan community.

And to learn about Wicca one must be initiated.

[Loona Wynd]

Gaijin32

I'd say I'm a hard polytheist, yes. I recognize all deities as individuals, rather than 'all are one'.

That's good. I personally tried the soft poly approach for a while, but it didn't work. When I started to read mythology I started to see just how different the Gods are.

Gaijin32

As for Man in Black, it's a position of guardianship for the coven, while everyone is doing ritual. Everyone who enters the circle must answer a set of questions put forth by the MIB, and be accepted in if their answers are sufficient. (For most educated, genuine Wiccans, it's not hard, but tougher for the fluffy fad-chasers.)

Do you remember what sorts of questions would be asked?

Gaijin32

As guardian of the circle, he would also do whatever was needed should anyone come to disrupt a ritual. Warning folks off first, and trying to keep any confrontation non-violent. If it did escalate, though, he was expected to give as well as he got, if not better. Traditionally, the MIB was also charged with finding and retrieving any who had done anything to betray the coven. Hence, another nickname for him is The Fetch. He would bring any traitors back to the High Priest and High Priestess for punishment, and it was usually carried out by his hand.

sounds like a huge responsibility. I don't know if it's a position in Traditional Wicca, but damn. I've never been involved with a coven, but I'd like to be.

Gaijin32

And that's what I can remember now. It's been quite a few years since those days. I'll be honest, I miss them.

Sounds like they had to have a lot of respect for you to charge you with such a duty. Do you remember if that coven followed a specific tradition?

[Aroomee]

You don't have to have a coven to practice Wicca. Practicing solitary is what a lot of Wiccans do now. Just go with what you believe.

[GaijinGuy36]

neko wyndy wytch

Gaijin32

I'd say I'm a hard polytheist, yes. I recognize all deities as individuals, rather than 'all are one'.

That's good. I personally tried the soft poly approach for a while, but it didn't work. When I started to read mythology I started to see just how different the Gods are.

Gaijin32

As for Man in Black, it's a position of guardianship for the coven, while everyone is doing ritual. Everyone who enters the circle must answer a set of questions put forth by the MIB, and be accepted in if their answers are sufficient. (For most educated, genuine Wiccans, it's not hard, but tougher for the fluffy fad-chasers.)

Do you remember what sorts of questions would be asked?

Gaijin32

As guardian of the circle, he would also do whatever was needed should anyone come to disrupt a ritual. Warning folks off first, and trying to keep any confrontation non-violent. If it did escalate, though, he was expected to give as well as he got, if not better. Traditionally, the MIB was also charged with finding and retrieving any who had done anything to betray the coven. Hence, another nickname for him is The Fetch. He would bring any traitors back to the High Priest and High Priestess for punishment, and it was usually carried out by his hand.

sounds like a huge responsibility. I don't know if it's a position in Traditional Wicca, but damn. I've never been involved with a coven, but I'd like to be.

Gaijin32

And that's what I can remember now. It's been quite a few years since those days. I'll be honest, I miss them.

Sounds like they had to have a lot of respect for you to charge you with such a duty. Do you remember if that coven followed a specific tradition?

The questions were such like asking the entrant's name, by what right they enter the circle, (usually answered 'By my right as *insert position in coven here*' or 'By the right of my mentor, who speaks for me', and how they enter the circle. The only answer for that, of course, is 'In perfect love and perfect trust.'

And yeah, the full duties are quite the laundry-list, but I never had to chase anyone down and haul them back in front of the HP for a good, long lecturing and a vigorous finger-wagging. I recall we were a pretty eclectic group...not sure if we actually had a specific tradition at all. But as I said, that was some years ago. It's been a while, and I forget.

I'd take such a position again, though, if it was offered. In a hot minute. I really loved being part of the group dynamic. It's very fulfilling. 3nodding

[Loona Wynd]

Prophet of Poison

Yep 3nodding

Good to know we are on the same page. I mean I don't know if we'll ever be able to prove scientifically in the existence of any deity. Frankly I don't want to. I like having that mystery surrounding deities and the nature of the divine. It's a mystery we can not experience in our current form. All we have is our personal experience to dictate our understanding of the existence or lack of existence of Gods. Now do you believe in any deities?

Prophet of Poison

neko wyndy wytch

In so far as it has to deal with specific Gods yes it does. The Gods of Wicca are specific to that religion. Being Wiccan means you follow those specific Gods.

I meant that it has nothing to do with the label changing anything.

From what I've read there are some major mental/emotional changes that occur when one goes through the initiation rituals of Wicca. They change your outlook and the way you experience life. Plus they open you up to experiencing the Gods of Wicca as best you can, depending on what degree you have taken. One of the reasons I am not Wiccan is that I have my own mental/emotional issues to work through that may hinder my growth as a Wiccan. So I'm not seeking initiation at this point in time. I was for a while, but have decided against it.

Prophet of Poison

neko wyndy wytch

I don't think it's that. I think that online people are more free to be themselves as you can give yourself animosity.

Maybe, but I've observed bisexuality and atheism as a fad IRL and on the internet. I'd be willing to bet paganism as a fad carries over IRL as all the others have. I'm just talking out of my a** though, of course. After I got out of High School I haven't gotten out much. I've probably just missed the fad.

I am genuinely bisexual. I am attracted to guys as often as girls. Hell I was attracted to girls before guys. I fought this sentiment for years, but then came to accept it when I started having even more intense sexual desires for women.

As for it being a Fad, I still say it's not. Yes there are some who will go through a Fad because their friends are, or because they want to go against their parents, but to say it is entirely a fad reflects poorly on those of us who have come to live this way after years of searching and research. I went through the rites of Christianity, but it meant nothing. I've found myself and my religious beliefs.