Wicca

[True Colours of Destiny]

Sevashtyn

X-tan

Quote:

I thought Wicca was about your connection to the earth not to the people in a coven.Whats up with that?

Nah, you're thinking of generic fluffy earth-based neo-paganism. wink

Wicca is a fertility religion, founded by Gerald Gardner, which is oath-bound, so until you're initiated into a coven that can trace it's linage back to him, you're not Wiccan.

You can still practice any of the many pagan religions, including some where practitioners are considered witches. People have confused that just because Wicca is pagan does not make all pagan practices Wiccan, so it's understandable that, from the mush of information out there, you weren't sure yourself. smile

I'm sorry, but you're operating under the misconception that you can't be a part of a religion if you're not surrounding yourself with members of the same religion. You can be a Christian, and study Christianity, and not belong to a Church, per se. The same goes for Wicca. Please, read my first (and second) post.

No, you're not reading everybody elses.

If we had to do a tree of religions, probably the first splitting point would be Doxy vs. Praxis vs Mix. Most religions are orthodoxies. They are defined by correct belief. Christianity is an orthodoxy, as you must have the correct beliefs, such as Christ is the Saviour of Mankind and there is only One God.

Wicca is what we call an orthopraxy. An orthopraxy is defined by correct practices. And since one of the correct practices is that all Wiccan information must be oathbound and not shared with outsiders, there is no way that true information about Wiccan practices can be published. Besides the Lady and the Lord of the Isles, there isn't anything within Wicca on the belief side.

An example of a mixed would be something like Islam where there is the Doxy "There is no God but Allah" and there is the praxis for the Five Pillars.

[BTW Seeket]

Sevashtyn

X-tan

Quote:

I thought Wicca was about your connection to the earth not to the people in a coven.Whats up with that?

Nah, you're thinking of generic fluffy earth-based neo-paganism. wink

Wicca is a fertility religion, founded by Gerald Gardner, which is oath-bound, so until you're initiated into a coven that can trace it's linage back to him, you're not Wiccan.

You can still practice any of the many pagan religions, including some where practitioners are considered witches. People have confused that just because Wicca is pagan does not make all pagan practices Wiccan, so it's understandable that, from the mush of information out there, you weren't sure yourself. smile

I'm sorry, but you're operating under the misconception that you can't be a part of a religion if you're not surrounding yourself with members of the same religion. You can be a Christian, and study Christianity, and not belong to a Church, per se. The same goes for Wicca. Please, read my first (and second) post.

Comparing Christianity and Wicca is not very valid. As others have said before Wicca is orthopraxic and Christianity is orthodoxic. Also a better comparison would be a Wiccan is like a Catholic priest. To be a Catholic priest you have to be trained by the Church and receive ordination by a properly ordained Bishop. To be Wiccan you must be trained in a coven descended from the New Forest Coven through cross gender initiation and then be initiated by the proper ritual by an opposite gender initiator.

The stuff you read in books like Cunningham's is not Wicca. It is generic neo-pagan witchcraft. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is not Wicca.

What has happened is that originally there was Wicca that was introduced to the world by Gerald Gardner. The Wicca that Gerald Gardner introduced to the world requires that you be initiated into a coven that can trace its initiatory lineage back to the New Forest coven. You are not allowed to subtract from the core of what you are passed down by the coven, but you can add to it as long as you clearly mark your additions for future students to know what is the core and what is additions. That is how you get the various traditions of Wicca like Alexandrian and Central Valley.

But there were not enough covens for the number of people interested in learning about Wicca. So some of the Wiccans created a group of rituals and practices that could be used by people who could not be initiated for what ever reason. These rituals are not Wiccan rituals but came to be known as Outer court rituals. The Pagan Way is on of the most famous of these outer court creations. Well this new system took off. People started using it and finding that it worked very well for them. Unfortunately some of these people now considered themselves to be Wiccan, but they are not. Then authors like Scott Cunningham and others started using the word Wicca to describe the types of outer court inspired witchcraft that they wrote about. As these books became popular more and more people followed the outer court system and became convinced that they could be Wiccan by reading books. They were told that they did not need a coven and that they could self-initiate.

When the original Wiccans come into contact with the people now calling themselves Wiccan you can imagine the confusion, hurt feelings, and anger. To the original Wiccans it seemed that all the hard work and dedication in finding and learning for years with a coven was being degraded by people who did not earn the title. For the new people calling themselves Wiccan it seemed that these old Wiccans were being elitist and denigrating their religious desires and accomplishments.

So into this mess some people have suggested that the new people use the title Neo-Wiccan, since they are the new group. The older group gets the title Wiccan. Of course not everybody agrees to this. Some Wiccans do not want the new people to use the word Wicca at all. And some of the newer people feel that the term Neo-Wicca is derogatory.

[Lulakai]

The way I was brought to understand how one became a wiccan was that you went through a year and a day apprenticeship with another wiccan well informed in the arts. A coven was not an essential part of the practice. After you successfully completed the apprenticeship, then you are a wiccan. This is what I did and while I don't actively practice at the moment, I still consider myself one even though I am not a member of a coven.

On a personal note, the whole thing in books and movies about being born a wiccan because your parents were is just b.s. However, about the whole Jewish thing, my friend, who is half Jewish had told me that as long as your mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish as well. It seems to me that Judaism is much more then just a belief, it is also a practice.

[BTW Seeket]

Lulakai

The way I was brought to understand how one became a wiccan was that you went through a year and a day apprenticeship with another wiccan well informed in the arts. A coven was not an essential part of the practice. After you successfully completed the apprenticeship, then you are a wiccan. This is what I did and while I don't actively practice at the moment, I still consider myself one even though I am not a member of a coven.

On a personal note, the whole thing in books and movies about being born a wiccan because your parents were is just b.s. However, about the whole Jewish thing, my friend, who is half Jewish had told me that as long as your mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish as well. It seems to me that Judaism is much more then just a belief, it is also a practice.

Lineage is not about your parents being Wiccan. Lineage in Wicca means that the person who initiated you was properly initiated by cross gender initiation by a person who was initiated by the proper cross gender initiation back to the New Forest Coven. It is not about bloodlines.

How did you learn about Wicca? Was it from books or people who read books and then declared themselves Wiccan?

Wiccan can not be learned that way. You only can learn about Wicca through initiation into a proper coven descended from the New Forest Coven. All the rituals and the names of the Lord and Lady are oathbound and are not to be discussed with people who are not initiated. Wiccans worship a specific God and Goddess. Do you know who they are?

There is a Wiccan FAQ on the religion and morality forum. It is well researched and cites important works, including scholarly works and Gearld Gardner. You may want to search for it. Wiccan FAQ

[Loona Wynd]

Rein Shadowin

I thought being wiccan was a belief, not a group.

Nope. It's about practice. The rites and rituals of Wicca must be performed a specific way, otherwise you are not honoring the Gods correctly. The context of those rites and rituals are oath bound, so unless you have been iniated into a properly linneaged coven, you are not Wiccan and can not practice the rites and rituals of Wicca.

Rein Shadowin

In fact the majority of wiccans pratice alone.

No they don't. The rites and rituals of Wiccan can only be properly performed in the setting of a coven. While Wiccans do have their own personal practice, it is not Wicca. The Gods of Wicca asked to be worshiped a specific way. That includes covens.

Rein Shadowin

I pratice alone.

Then you are an eclectic neo-pagan and possibly a witch. I am also a solitary pagan. I am not Wiccan. I might never be Wiccan. Wicca requires a coven. Plain and simple.

Rein Shadowin

It's all about your connection to the earth and the powers and not about how well you are connected to people.

While the coven is a requirement, it's not about the people in the coven. Every member of the coven is a member of the priesthood of the Lord and Lady of the isles. They all have different roles in the service of worship. Every Wiccan is a priest or priestess, and has their own role. The coven is just the group setting and family of the Wiccans. They worship together and perform the rites together as dictated by the Gods.

Rein Shadowin

Im confused here.I thought Wicca was about your connection to the earth not to the people in a coven.Whats up with that?

It's a fertility cult. It's a priesthood of the Lord and Lady of the Isles. The only way to learn the proper rites and rituals and to perform them correctly is to be in a coven. While there are solitary Wiccans, they are not solitary by choice. They have for some reason had to leave their coven. The rites and rituals they now practice are not Wiccan though. They are something else.

Rein Shadowin

Im being told by many Pagans on Gaia that in order to be Wiccan you have to be in a coven.I am deeply confused.Clearify this for me?

You do need to be in a coven that can trace it's linneage back to Gerald Gardner. otherwise you are not Wiccan.

[Prince of Fish]

Wicca is: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, who gives a s**t. What you call yourself changes nothing.

[Loona Wynd]

Sevashtyn

*sigh*
Please read Scott Cunningham's "Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner"

I have read that book, and it's a good book but not Wicca. Cunningham left Wicca after receiving his first degree initiation. As such he was not able to experience all the mysteries and practices of Wicca.

[The Pirate Soldier]

Why is every single person becoming wicca all of the sudden?

[Prince of Fish]

The Pirate Soldier

Why is every single person becoming pagan all of the sudden?

It's a fad brah, like atheism or bisexuality.

[DaveForHire]

You can become wiccan as a solitary practicer.
I myself have done so, I contacted some covens and read quite a bit of stuff before actually becoming wiccan.

My point is you can become wicca two ways

1st) Through a coven
2nd) You can self intiate yourself through a circle casting...
but you MUST follow the proper order to make sure you don't do anything wrong.

BB

[Artistic Genocide]

neko wyndy wytch

Rein Shadowin

I thought being wiccan was a belief, not a group.

Nope. It's about practice. The rites and rituals of Wicca must be performed a specific way, otherwise you are not honoring the Gods correctly. The context of those rites and rituals are oath bound, so unless you have been iniated into a properly linneaged coven, you are not Wiccan and can not practice the rites and rituals of Wicca.

Rein Shadowin

In fact the majority of wiccans pratice alone.

No they don't. The rites and rituals of Wiccan can only be properly performed in the setting of a coven. While Wiccans do have their own personal practice, it is not Wicca. The Gods of Wicca asked to be worshiped a specific way. That includes covens.

Rein Shadowin

I pratice alone.

Then you are an eclectic neo-pagan and possibly a witch. I am also a solitary pagan. I am not Wiccan. I might never be Wiccan. Wicca requires a coven. Plain and simple.

Rein Shadowin

It's all about your connection to the earth and the powers and not about how well you are connected to people.

While the coven is a requirement, it's not about the people in the coven. Every member of the coven is a member of the priesthood of the Lord and Lady of the isles. They all have different roles in the service of worship. Every Wiccan is a priest or priestess, and has their own role. The coven is just the group setting and family of the Wiccans. They worship together and perform the rites together as dictated by the Gods.

Rein Shadowin

Im confused here.I thought Wicca was about your connection to the earth not to the people in a coven.Whats up with that?

It's a fertility cult. It's a priesthood of the Lord and Lady of the Isles. The only way to learn the proper rites and rituals and to perform them correctly is to be in a coven. While there are solitary Wiccans, they are not solitary by choice. They have for some reason had to leave their coven. The rites and rituals they now practice are not Wiccan though. They are something else.

Rein Shadowin

Im being told by many Pagans on Gaia that in order to be Wiccan you have to be in a coven.I am deeply confused.Clearify this for me?

You do need to be in a coven that can trace it's linneage back to Gerald Gardner. otherwise you are not Wiccan.

Read the above post, people.
You can't be a wiccan as a solitary practicer.
It REQUIRES a coven, because Wicca's an orthopraxic. It requires correct practice. A Coven is part of the correct practice of Wicca.
And the coven has to be able to trace it's lineage back to Gerald Gardner.
If your under 18, you also are not wiccan, because it's a fertility religion. Sex is part of the practice. If you're under 18, that's illegal. Some won't even take a person unless their older then 21.
And you can't be a wiccan through family, because it's not a bloodline thing, nor is it taught through family. otherwise, that would be incest. =3

[Loona Wynd]

Sevashtyn

Whether you follow Wicca as a solitary practitioner or as a member of a coven is entirely up to you.

For eclectic neo-paganism you are absolutely correct. For wicca you are not. The rites and rituals of Wicca can only be performed properly with in the context of a coven.

Sevashtyn

There are debates about which one is 'right', but quite frankly those people need to get the sticks out of their asses.

If we are talking about neo-paganism in general your right. There is no right way to practice. However some traditions and paths like Wicca require that one be a member of a coven and initiated. In that situation one must follow the proper rites and rituals to become a member of that tradition.

Sevashtyn

Some people, like myself, don't live in areas that allow for practicing in a group and so are forced to act as solitary practitioners.

Which is fine and all, but it doesn't make you wiccan.

Sevashtyn

You can initiate yourself into the Craft once you feel that you have achieved that level of study and dedication to it.

No, no no. One can not self initiate. Initiation means being brought into something by another. You can not self iniate. You can dedicate yourself, but it's not an initiation. Initiations are formal ceremonies that welcome you into a coven or group.

Sevashtyn

Others simply prefer to be a part of a community that shares the same basic beliefs. The real questions here are:

A. Is there a coven, or a group in your area that you are able to meet with?

B. Which do you feel more comfortable with?

Good questions for Eclectic-neo paganism, but not for Wicca.

[choochoocamoo]

Rein Shadowin

I thought being wiccan was a belief, not a group. In fact the majority of wiccans pratice alone. I pratice alone. It's all about your connection to the earth and the powers and not about how well you are connected to people. Im confused here.I thought Wicca was about your connection to the earth not to the people in a coven.Whats up with that? Im being told by many Pagans on Gaia that in order to be Wiccan you have to be in a coven.I am deeply confused.Clearify this for me?

i think its a mixture of both, like any religion

[Loona Wynd]

Prophet of Poison

The Pirate Soldier

Why is every single person becoming pagan all of the sudden?

It's a fad brah, like atheism or bisexuality.

stare Paganism is not a fad. Nor is bisexuality. Please step off my lifestyles thank you.