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Kat Savage
unfortunatly I'm no one for debate. Too bothersome, I don't want to, nobody is going to change anybodies mind. Waste of my time. confused


Well, we're not gonna change our minds because we're right, and the evidence actually supports our stance.

Why aren't you gonna change your mind?
 
     
 
Kat Savage

well I suppose I can't. My apologies for assuming. I'm done arguing now. far too bothersome for my taste. rolleyes
Then don't come into threads that are discussion unless you are willing to argue and back up your points. I mean honestly if some one can genuinly show me from an academic source that Wicca refers to an earth based religion and not that Path that Gardner created I'll listen.
     
I'm not reading through all this. Can someone tell me if I already did one of my wicca/wicker jokes?
 
     
 
Mortok
I'm not reading through all this. Can someone tell me if I already did one of my wicca/wicker jokes?


Yeah.
     
neko wyndy wytch
The religion you find in books about Wicca is great but it's not Wicca. You can not learn the rites and rituals of Wicca from a book. Wicca is not an earth based religion.


I'm asking why Wicca can mean only that. You can keep giving me books and facts about initiatory Wicca, but as it stands now it's all just proof by assertion.

neko wyndy wytch
By they are two totally different fruit. The same goes for the religion of Wicca and Neo-Wicca. They are completely different. One is an oath bound mystery fertility cult of the Lord and Lady of the Isles. The other is an earth/nature based religion.


I understand that they are different, my point is that it won't matter what you call them. If you call an orange an apple, it's still an orange. If you let people know that when you say 'apple' you really mean 'orange', then there is no problem in communication. Nothing is keeping the 'meaning' of the words absolute.

neko wyndy wytch
If a word introduced has a specific meaning then that is the meaning of the word. Gardner named his religion Wicca. Thus Wicca refers only to his religion.


Why can it only mean that?

neko wyndy wytch
It's not like I can worship Satan and call myself a Christian. If you don't meet the tenants of a religion then you are not of that religion. I don't know how much clearer I can be.


You could call yourself a Christian. It'd cause a lot of confusion, but there's nothing inherently wrong about it. Think of it this way; it's like money. Money has no intrinsic value other that what people prescribe to it. The 'value' of money wavers up and down and can become totally worthless when people lose their faith in it. Because money only represents a concept of value, or better yet; an agreement that we'll pretend it's worth something. Words work in the same way, they only represent ideas. If a majority of the world agrees that a single dollar can buy a TV, then a TV is 'worth' one dollar. If a majority of the world agrees that the word Wicca means 'what have you', then that's what it 'means'. There's nothing keeping the value of money or the meaning of words objective and static.
 
     
 
Prophet of Poison
I'm asking why Wicca can mean only that.


Because equivocation to the point where terms become meaningless is bad.

Quote:
You can keep giving me books and facts about initiatory Wicca, but as it stands now it's all just proof by assertion.


You don't actually know what proof by assertion is, do you?
     
kat99
HER0 PR0TAG0NIST

you cannot really be a solo practioner in wicca,you have to belong to a coven, you can be a pagan and a solo practioner, but not in wicca.


You've obviously never heard of Scott Cunningham


Cunningham teaches standing stone witchcraft, not Wicca. /thread
 
     
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Crowley_unicursal_hexagram.svg/109px-Crowley_unicursal_hexagram.svg.png
Witchcult Today... Gaia's Thelema guild-in-the-making.
 
Mister Heat Miser
Prophet of Poison
I'm asking why Wicca can mean only that.


Because equivocation to the point where terms become meaningless is bad.

Quote:
You can keep giving me books and facts about initiatory Wicca, but as it stands now it's all just proof by assertion.


You don't actually know what proof by assertion is, do you?


Hold on, I need to check something....................................Nope, you're still not a good troll. *kisses* heart
     
Did I miss the Wicca 101 beatdown already? D:

Damn it, I always miss the good stuff.
 
     
 
Namikikyo
Did I miss the Wicca 101 beatdown already? D:

Damn it, I always miss the good stuff.

You can joke about wicker with me.
     
random escapist
MORTOK
IS TOO SEXY FOR YOUR GAIA
TOO SEXY FOR YOUR GAIA
SO SEXY IT HURTS
Prophet of Poison
Hold on, I need to check something....................................Nope, you're still not a good troll. *kisses* heart


And you're still not a good debater. Pity.

Proof by Assertion cannot involve fact, as it is, by nature, an unsupported assertion. If Neko keeps giving you facts concerning something, then it can't be proof by assertion. Rather, it's an actual valid argument.

And equivocation is still bad. Your question is as idiotic as asking why bread can't be considered a fruit.
 
     
 
Mister Heat Miser
And you're still not a good debater.


Oh, why thank you. And here I thought you didn't like me.
     
http://i38.tinypic.com/2j2urfr.png

Temple of the Fishy Dawn

SKYCLAD--the veil has lifted,
SKYCLAD--now I see through,
SKYCLAD--your mask of illusion,
SKYCLAD--to the fake that is you.

Seek freedom from the prison of sanity
Prophet of Poison
Mister Heat Miser
And you're still not a good debater.


Oh, why thank you. And here I thought you didn't like me.


I'm honestly curious, what would you do if someone else came in here to say the exact same things that I've said? Would you call troll again? Would you actually try and come up with a real response?
 
     
 
Prophet of Poison

I'm asking why Wicca can mean only that. You can keep giving me books and facts about initiatory Wicca, but as it stands now it's all just proof by assertion.
The word had no meaning in Modern English till Gardner applied it to his religion. Thus the religion that Gardner created is the only religion that can be titled Wicca. If you don't meet the critera of Wicca then you are not Wiccan. To be Wiccan is to be a member of a specific fertility cult with specific deities and specific rites. Don't have those deities, not Wiccan. Don't have the rites, not Wiccan. It's not about belief. It's about practice.
Prophet of Poison

I understand that they are different, my point is that it won't matter what you call them. If you call an orange an apple, it's still an orange. If you let people know that when you say 'apple' you really mean 'orange', then there is no problem in communication. Nothing is keeping the 'meaning' of the words absolute.
So I can go up to a random person and ask for an apple when all they have are oranges and call an orange an apple? Thats bizare. It shows a lack of understanding of the terms and the meanings of words.
Prophet of Poison

Why can it only mean that?
He brought the word into modern useage. As such it belongs to his cult.
Prophet of Poison

You could call yourself a Christian. It'd cause a lot of confusion, but there's nothing inherently wrong about it.
But your not following the God of Christianity in that situation. In which case calling oneself Christian would be inaccurate. You don't follow the right God. The same applies to Wicca. If you don't have the right deities, rituals, and lineage you are not Wiccan.
Prophet of Poison
Think of it this way; it's like money. Money has no intrinsic value other that what people prescribe to it. The 'value' of money wavers up and down and can become totally worthless when people lose their faith in it. Because money only represents a concept of value, or better yet; an agreement that we'll pretend it's worth something. Words work in the same way, they only represent ideas. If a majority of the world agrees that a single dollar can buy a TV, then a TV is 'worth' one dollar. If a majority of the world agrees that the word Wicca means 'what have you', then that's what it 'means'. There's nothing keeping the value of money or the meaning of words objective and static.
The people who call their religion Wicca have no understanding of what being Wiccan entails. if they did they would know that Wicca is oath bound and can't be learned from a book.
     




Currently: 45k/550k
^ click for my quest ^

Mortok
Namikikyo
Did I miss the Wicca 101 beatdown already? D:

Damn it, I always miss the good stuff.

You can joke about wicker with me.


Lol, Why does that sound like a last resort to defeat boredom?

But, very well. I havn't heard a good one in a looong while.

 
     
Low tide and high tea
The oysters are waiting for me


You are not Wiccan.
This is why.
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