Wicca

[GeminiSong]

neko wyndy wytch

Really? So can you give an example of something?

Discordians are prohibited from believing what they read.

neko wyndy wytch

I see. I personally like having structured religious rites and rituals...which is why I'm glad I'm finally training in a specific tradition (4 months and I start training).

You can have structure in Discordianism if you want xp Anyway, what tradition are you entering?

neko wyndy wytch

So if one is calling themselves a priest or priestess they must know the proper rites and rituals of the religion they are a priest of. Some Gods (like the Gods of Wicca) have specific rites. In order to learn those rites one must be properly trained. One can not simply decide one day to be Wiccan and practice the rites and rituals of Wicca. The Gods of Wicca choose their followers, and have specific requirements. To properly worship those Gods one needs initiation and a coven.

But they aren't calling themselves priests or priestesses.

neko wyndy wytch

When a title can just be taken you are right, but when one has to be earned like Wiccan you are wrong.

Why does it have to be earned?

[kat99]

HER0 PR0TAG0NIST

you cannot really be a solo practioner in wicca,you have to belong to a coven, you can be a pagan and a solo practioner, but not in wicca.

You've obviously never heard of Scott Cunningham

[Loona Wynd]

Prophet of Poison

Discordians are prohibited from believing what they read.

I don't believe everything I read any way

Prophet of Poison

You can have structure in Discordianism if you want xp

I'll have to read more of that book. It looks like it could be an interesting read (the 5 commandments were funny).

Prophet of Poison

Anyway, what tradition are you entering?

The Temple of witchcraft Tradition. It was founded by Chris Penczak. It's a 5 degree system. I'm starting with my first degree. I told him my goals and he said to start with the first degree and work through all the material as it is a unique system unto it's self. It's not well known. The basics of the Tradition can be found in the Temple of Witchcraft book series, but there is more to the tradition than what is written in the books. Hence why I am training in that tradition.

Prophet of Poison

But they aren't calling themselves priests or priestesses.

Yes they are. All books on "Wicca" state that all Wiccans are their own priests and priestesses. Thus by claiming to be Wiccan you are claiming to be a priest or a priestess.

Prophet of Poison

Why does it have to be earned?

That's the way the religion was structured when it was founded.

[Loona Wynd]

kat99

You've obviously never heard of Scott Cunningham

Cunningham was only initiated into the first degree. As such he did not have access to all the teachings and mysteries of Wicca. He was not with in the right to write a book about or even teach Wicca. Those are reserved for the High priesthood (second and third degree).

[GeminiSong]

neko wyndy wytch

The Temple of witchcraft Tradition. It was founded by Chris Penczak. It's a 5 degree system. I'm starting with my first degree. I told him my goals and he said to start with the first degree and work through all the material as it is a unique system unto it's self. It's not well known. The basics of the Tradition can be found in the Temple of Witchcraft book series, but there is more to the tradition than what is written in the books. Hence why I am training in that tradition.

Sounds neat. If at some point I have actual spending money, I'll check them out.

neko wyndy wytch

Yes they are. All books on "Wicca" state that all Wiccans are their own priests and priestesses. Thus by claiming to be Wiccan you are claiming to be a priest or a priestess.

But there are hundreds of books about 'Wicca' that speak of it as an earth based, eclectic, neo-pagan tradition.

neko wyndy wytch

That's the way the religion was structured when it was founded.

So? Why is the meaning of the word set in stone, just because of its origin?

[death in poetry]

no u do not have to be in a coven to be wicca

[BTW Found]

The issue of solitary Wicca keeps coming up, so this post is to try and make sense of the problem.

Wicca was founded by Gerald Gardner in the 1940's. The source for this information is the scholar Ronald Hutton and his book, Triumph of the Moon, and the publishe works of Gerald Gardner.

So if Mr. Gardner is the founder of Wicca then he should have some authority over how it was and is praciticed. In his works it makes it very plain that you are required to be initiated into a proper coven to be of the Wica. Those who can trace their initiatory lineage through cross gender initiation are Wiccan. These include the Gardnerians, Alexandrians, Central Valley, and a few others.

In America many people wanted to become Wiccan but could not find a coven or could not get accepted by a coven, so they tried to create their own version out of the outer court information about Wicca. This outer court material is not Wicca.

People like Scott Cunningham, Silver Ravewolf and others used the name Wicca to describe their form of witchcraft.

So who's version of Wicca is more correct? The original created by Gerald Gardner or the outer court based version created by non-initiates or half trained disgruntled individuals? This is not to say what Cunningham writes about has no value, it does, but it is not Wicca.

So you are required to be initiated into a proper coven descended through cross gender initiation from the New Forest Coven. Once initiated you are Wiccan, but you can not initiate anyone and anyone you train is not Wiccan unless they are part of the coven and recieves the proper cross gender initiation. You can leave a coven but once you do it is very hard to practice by yourself because the Wiccan rituals are made for a coven.

So there is no such thing as a Solitary Wiccan unless a proper Wiccan has been force to leave their coven for some reason.

If you do not have a proper initiation you are not Wiccan.

[Loona Wynd]

Prophet of Poison

Sounds neat. If at some point I have actual spending money, I'll check them out.

When I met with the teacher in a weekend intensive last summer I knew it was the path for me. I was going to continue my training from where I started, but he said if my goal was to be a priestess then I should start from the beginning, so I am.

Prophet of Poison

But there are hundreds of books about 'Wicca' that speak of it as an earth based, eclectic, neo-pagan tradition.

Here is a quote from Wicca and witchcraft for dummies

Whether or not to support paid clergy is a big issue in contemporary Wicca. Wiccans generally have been unable or unwilling to maintain paid clergy or to build permanent buildings (churches) for worship. Part of the reason is that as a community, Wiccans just don't have the money. The other reason is that many Wiccans reject the notion of a hierarchy of clergy. Wiccans believe that they each have direct access to Deity.They all serve as priestess or priest, and they don't need any one intervening for them.

So there you have it. Each Wiccan serves as their own priestess or priest. As such they are all clergy.

Prophet of Poison

So? Why is the meaning of the word set in stone, just because of its origin?

Words may have multiple meanings, but Wicca came into modern day useage by Gerald Gardner. The word refers to his religion. As such it remains his religion to this day.

[Loona Wynd]

death in poetry

no u do not have to be in a coven to be wicca

Yes you do. The rites and rituals of Wicca can only be properly performed in a Coven setting. As such if you practice the rites and rituals of Wicca solitary they loose context and thus are no longer Wiccan.

[GeminiSong]

neko wyndy wytch

When I met with the teacher in a weekend intensive last summer I knew it was the path for me. I was going to continue my training from where I started, but he said if my goal was to be a priestess then I should start from the beginning, so I am.

Well good luck and I hope you've really found what you're looking for. Lord knows trying to find where you belong is a b***h.

neko wyndy wytch

Here is a quote from Wicca and witchcraft for dummies

Whether or not to support paid clergy is a big issue in contemporary Wicca. Wiccans generally have been unable or unwilling to maintain paid clergy or to build permanent buildings (churches) for worship. Part of the reason is that as a community, Wiccans just don't have the money. The other reason is that many Wiccans reject the notion of a hierarchy of clergy. Wiccans believe that they each have direct access to Deity.They all serve as priestess or priest, and they don't need any one intervening for them.

So there you have it. Each Wiccan serves as their own priestess or priest. As such they are all clergy.

Perhaps for initiatory Wiccans. Why should I believe this book, that initiatory Wiccans are absolutely the only people allowed to call themselves 'Wiccans', against all the others that claim otherwise?

neko wyndy wytch

Words may have multiple meanings, but Wicca came into modern day useage by Gerald Gardner. The word refers to his religion. As such it remains his religion to this day.

But why should it?

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Poison: labels aren't things that we asign meaning to. Essentially, we start with the meaning, and the invent a word to encompass that meaning.

If you call yourself a Wiccan without being a Wiccan, it does indeed change what you are, in a sense. It can, for example, change you into a liar, for you are claiming to be what you are not. Although in most cases it simply means you are misinformed.

[Devilock666]

wicca is just a wanna be religion. you wanna be in touch with nature? go for a hike.

HAIL THOR!

[Chaos Blue]

Devilock666

wicca is just a wanna be religion. you wanna be in touch with nature? go for a hike.

HAIL THOR!

Only Wicca isn't a nature religion.
Nice try, though.

[Loona Wynd]

Prophet of Poison

Well good luck and I hope you've really found what you're looking for. Lord knows trying to find where you belong is a b***h.

I've been seeking for 10 years. I'm very happy with what I've found in my path. I'm eager to learn more over the next several years. I may end up training with a coven in my area as well (after I finish training with my teacher) to get an idea of how covens work. I mean if I want to run my own coven some day I should have experience in a coven setting. Otherwise I'm asking for trouble.

Prophet of Poison

Perhaps for initiatory Wiccans. Why should I believe this book, that initiatory Wiccans are absolutely the only people allowed to call themselves 'Wiccans', against all the others that claim otherwise?

Ah but that book isn't about Wicca proper. It's about the eclectic neo-wicca that most books on Wicca discuss. It's talking about the earth based religion, not the fertility cult of the Lord and Lady of the Isles, which is why I choose that quote. I can find more if you need. I have loads of books on the subject.

Prophet of Poison

But why should it?

He brought the word into useage with a specific meaning. As such the word describes his religion. Its like calling an apple an orange.

[GeminiSong]

neko wyndy wytch

Ah but that book isn't about Wicca proper. It's about the eclectic neo-wicca that most books on Wicca discuss. It's talking about the earth based religion, not the fertility cult of the Lord and Lady of the Isles, which is why I choose that quote. I can find more if you need. I have loads of books on the subject.

Forgive me, but that sounds circular to me. X books are about what Wicca really is -> Why are these other books invalid? -> Because they aren't about actual Wicca -> What is Wicca 'actually' about -> What X books say Wicca is about.

neko wyndy wytch

He brought the word into useage with a specific meaning. As such the word describes his religion. Its like calling an apple an orange.

You could call an apple an orange and it would work, assuming the people you are communicating with understand what you mean. I mean, language evolves and the meaning of words change. Which is exactly what I see with Wicca.

By the by, I like your new avatar.

Sanguina Cruenta

Poison: labels aren't things that we asign meaning to. Essentially, we start with the meaning, and the invent a word to encompass that meaning.

I agree.

Sanguina Cruenta

If you call yourself a Wiccan without being a Wiccan, it does indeed change what you are, in a sense. It can, for example, change you into a liar, for you are claiming to be what you are not. Although in most cases it simply means you are misinformed.

The problem here is you guys keep assuming words, the label 'Wiccan' in particular, have static meanings and can never be changed or mean something else. I don't agree with this and as such I don't think someone could be called a liar or 'misinformed' for applying a label to themselves.