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vicidian
What is the stance you carry on human-animal marriages? The marriage of a female goat to a male human, e.g.
Entirely different situation.

Of course, there have already been plenty of marriage ceremonies between humans and animals through the centuries. I presume much to the confusion of the animal in question.
 
     
 
OneWithDunamis
Shiro-Jin
OneWithDunamis

I never said homosexuality per se hurt anybody. If you read previous posts you would see that if marriages were defined as unions between homosexuals only and heterosexuals wanted to be recognized as married as well, I'd fight against that instead.


So what exactly is your point here? That you think all words should have only one definition? Because if that's so, it would make it impossible for one to learn the language because of the sheer amount of words. It's hard enough as it is. Plus, it's impossible to keep a language's words from gaining multiple meanings anyways. You haven't taken the development of Slang into account.

Also, as an irrelevant sidenote to Lucien: I'm gonna make you another avatar art of epic win proportions (I hope). n.n

I never said I wasn't against slang. I'm just picking on one group that's prominent in society. Others are next.


So how do you feel about Polygamy?
     
OneWithDunamis
TheVoiceOfTheLobster
OneWithDunamis
TheVoiceOfTheLobster
OneWithDunamis

I just said there's no difference.


I apologise, I misread what you said.

So basically you don't approve of people devoting themselves to each other if they don't meet that society's definition of commitment. Is that what you're saying?

I don't approve of people changing words' definitions, because that breaks down communication, which destroys nations.


Don't be silly. Everyone has a different definition for everything. There is no absolute truth, after all.

It's only when we refuse to respect other people's definitions do we incite hatred and destroy nations.

Self contradiction.


I don't really think it's self-contradiction to tell you that people's views and definitions of things are not all the same.

I wish you'd stop being so hostile with me. I'm trying to understand what you would change by making everyone uniformed. When has uniformity ever made everyone happy in history?
 
     
'tis the voice of the Lobster: i heard him declare
"you have baked me too brown, i must sugar my hair."
as a duck with its eyelids, so he with his nose
trims his belt and his buttons, and turns out his toes.
 
Riviera de la Mancha
OneWithDunamis
Riviera de la Mancha
OneWithDunamis
Riviera de la Mancha
Marriage, as it pertains to the discussion of gay marriage recognition in the law, is a state-created entity. If it be so created, then there ought be no reason the term necessarily remains defined as between a man and a woman. That is why previous states have had to pass referendums to define it as such legally in their state.

So what you're saying is the state, which is meant to function for the betterment of society, is in fact leading the destruction. It's done so subtly too, since it's clear from most people's opinions here that language is not a big issue when it most definitely is.

No, not at all. Read with attention.

What I am saying is that the current debate over gay marriage is centered on the discussion of marriage not as a ceremony, but as a state-created creature. Marriage is an institution, for the purposes of gay rights, that the government created and got into the business of establishing with particular benefits. As it is created by the state, where state means government, the state may define it as it so wishes, and can change it at any time.

Therefore, there is nothing within the word 'marriage', that binds it exclusively to man and woman, for the purposes of the present political debate.

We just said the same thing. The state has the right to change definitions of terms, which causes mass confusion, making people acting stupid. When what we say no longer means only what we mean, communication breaks down. Perhaps one day "grab milk on the way home" means "I saw you milking that whore after work". There will be hell on earth, or worse. Because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Or however the line goes.

What mass confusion? I never spoke to this. I am addressing the OP, which makes the argument that the government cannot re-define marriage because to do so causes chaos. Ignoring the chaos point, I addressed the idea that a government cannot do x because of effect y on the populous. I am saying that the government can do whatever it wishes to anything it creates, and the government created marriage, so it is free to do what it wills to it, regardless of the effects it has on the populous, provided it does so in accordance to the proper regulation and law.

It is incorrect to say that if I make product y I cant then change to call it product t if I so wish because I created product y; it is mine to do with as I wish. The government created marriage and, so long as it abides by the rules and regulations, it may define it as it wishes. To talk of chaos is merely irrelevant babble as it relates to the argument presented in the OP.

Yes, technically they are able to do so, but they mustn't, because it'll destroy society. It's like calling Pluto a moon instead of a planet now. People will likely refer to it as either moon or planet, but only one is right. Think of the mass confusion!!

We're talking more than legal issues here. The impact will certainly decimate the nation.
     
Shiro-Jin
OneWithDunamis
Shiro-Jin
OneWithDunamis

I never said homosexuality per se hurt anybody. If you read previous posts you would see that if marriages were defined as unions between homosexuals only and heterosexuals wanted to be recognized as married as well, I'd fight against that instead.


So what exactly is your point here? That you think all words should have only one definition? Because if that's so, it would make it impossible for one to learn the language because of the sheer amount of words. It's hard enough as it is. Plus, it's impossible to keep a language's words from gaining multiple meanings anyways. You haven't taken the development of Slang into account.

Also, as an irrelevant sidenote to Lucien: I'm gonna make you another avatar art of epic win proportions (I hope). n.n

I never said I wasn't against slang. I'm just picking on one group that's prominent in society. Others are next.


So how do you feel about Polygamy?

I'd latch on moral reasons to that topic, and I'm not going to because we're talking about the butchering of languages, which destroys society, whereas a polygamist union may only ruin a family.
 
     
 
Nicole Ekishou
vicidian
What is the stance you carry on human-animal marriages? The marriage of a female goat to a male human, e.g.
Entirely different situation.

Of course, there have already been plenty of marriage ceremonies between humans and animals through the centuries. I presume much to the confusion of the animal in question.

Indeed there have been, mostly as part of societal ceremony for the sake of luck and status. For the sake of arguments, however, if marriage is defined as a joining of individuals of the opposite sex, then should the union of male-female interspecies couples be viable under that definition?
     
OneWithDunamis
MemoriesThatKill
OneWithDunamis
TheVoiceOfTheLobster
OneWithDunamis
Because by definition a marriage is the union between a man and a woman. If they change the definition of this word, what other words will they change next? Communication will break down and everything becomes ambiguous. Look at the Tower of Babel. They couldn't communicate with each other and an entire nation of people was scattered.

Don't be selfish. Think of the greater good of society, if you intend to stay with the society you're familiar with.


That's exactly what people were saying about interracial couples back in the 60's.

If back then marriage was defined as a union between two people of the same race, then they had every right to fight the change.



WOOOOOOW, you SO just proved Shiro-Jin and my point just there.

seriously.

/thread

I don't think you had a point against my argument.


You are the most dense person I have seen in this thread. At least other thread creators can admit when others have a point. You apparently are ok with the definition changing for RACE, but not GENDER.

It's the same thing.

How can you NOT see that as a point?
 
     
 
TheVoiceOfTheLobster
OneWithDunamis
TheVoiceOfTheLobster
OneWithDunamis
TheVoiceOfTheLobster
OneWithDunamis

I just said there's no difference.


I apologise, I misread what you said.

So basically you don't approve of people devoting themselves to each other if they don't meet that society's definition of commitment. Is that what you're saying?

I don't approve of people changing words' definitions, because that breaks down communication, which destroys nations.


Don't be silly. Everyone has a different definition for everything. There is no absolute truth, after all.

It's only when we refuse to respect other people's definitions do we incite hatred and destroy nations.

Self contradiction.


I don't really think it's self-contradiction to tell you that people's views and definitions of things are not all the same.

I wish you'd stop being so hostile with me. I'm trying to understand what you would change by making everyone uniformed. When has uniformity ever made everyone happy in history?

I meant to bold the part about there being no absolute truth at all, but since all your posts are bolded already, I got lazy and hoped you would see what I was referring to.

Uniformity never made everyone happy in history because it was never achieved, and thus cannot be analyzed.
     
OneWithDunamis
Yes, technically they are able to do so, but they mustn't, because it'll destroy society. It's like calling Pluto a moon instead of a planet now. People will likely refer to it as either moon or planet, but only one is right. Think of the mass confusion!!

We're talking more than legal issues here. The impact will certainly decimate the nation.


No it won't. Man and Woman --& Two Consenting Adults is not a world-shattering change.

Incendentially, it also cuts out that bullshit about animals and children.
 
     
 
MemoriesThatKill
OneWithDunamis
MemoriesThatKill
OneWithDunamis
TheVoiceOfTheLobster
OneWithDunamis
Because by definition a marriage is the union between a man and a woman. If they change the definition of this word, what other words will they change next? Communication will break down and everything becomes ambiguous. Look at the Tower of Babel. They couldn't communicate with each other and an entire nation of people was scattered.

Don't be selfish. Think of the greater good of society, if you intend to stay with the society you're familiar with.


That's exactly what people were saying about interracial couples back in the 60's.

If back then marriage was defined as a union between two people of the same race, then they had every right to fight the change.



WOOOOOOW, you SO just proved Shiro-Jin and my point just there.

seriously.

/thread

I don't think you had a point against my argument.


You are the most dense person I have seen in this thread. At least other thread creators can admit when others have a point. You apparently are ok with the definition changing for RACE, but not GENDER.

It's the same thing.

How can you NOT see that as a point?

I never said it was ok for the definition of race to change. Read carefully. But since it's already been changed, we must preserve what we currently have.
     
Nicole Ekishou
No it won't. Man and Woman --& Two Consenting Adults is not a world-shattering change.

Incendentially, it also cuts out that bullshit about animals and children.

Actually animals and children neither fit into man nor woman. I don't mean that physically either heyooo!

As well I said if one word changed, other words will change either. And others have also argued that if we allow homosexual unions, they may also allow unions of adults and kids, which ***** are actually fighting for currently.
 
     
 
vicidian
Nicole Ekishou
vicidian
What is the stance you carry on human-animal marriages? The marriage of a female goat to a male human, e.g.
Entirely different situation.

Of course, there have already been plenty of marriage ceremonies between humans and animals through the centuries. I presume much to the confusion of the animal in question.

Indeed there have been, mostly as part of societal ceremony for the sake of luck and status. For the sake of arguments, however, if marriage is defined as a joining of individuals of the opposite sex, then should the union of male-female interspecies couples be viable under that definition?
Of course not. See my proposed amended definition above.
     

Do you see the bag? Give me your flowers instead of throwing them away, or I'l open the bag.
OneWithDunamis
MemoriesThatKill
OneWithDunamis
MemoriesThatKill
OneWithDunamis

If back then marriage was defined as a union between two people of the same race, then they had every right to fight the change.



WOOOOOOW, you SO just proved Shiro-Jin and my point just there.

seriously.

/thread

I don't think you had a point against my argument.


You are the most dense person I have seen in this thread. At least other thread creators can admit when others have a point. You apparently are ok with the definition changing for RACE, but not GENDER.

It's the same thing.

How can you NOT see that as a point?

I never said it was ok for the definition of race to change. Read carefully. But since it's already been changed, we must preserve what we currently have.


Not the definition of "race" the deifinition of "marriage". You already said one change is ok, which means everything else about our language going to hell and whatnot is nul. You made a "self contradicting statement". Hipocrite.
 
     
http://i44.tinypic.com/302tj6u.jpg
"Lucien the Notorious Thread Ender"
I'm in your forumz; ending your threadz. o.O
 
OneWithDunamis
Riviera de la Mancha
OneWithDunamis
Riviera de la Mancha
OneWithDunamis
Riviera de la Mancha
Marriage, as it pertains to the discussion of gay marriage recognition in the law, is a state-created entity. If it be so created, then there ought be no reason the term necessarily remains defined as between a man and a woman. That is why previous states have had to pass referendums to define it as such legally in their state.

So what you're saying is the state, which is meant to function for the betterment of society, is in fact leading the destruction. It's done so subtly too, since it's clear from most people's opinions here that language is not a big issue when it most definitely is.

No, not at all. Read with attention.

What I am saying is that the current debate over gay marriage is centered on the discussion of marriage not as a ceremony, but as a state-created creature. Marriage is an institution, for the purposes of gay rights, that the government created and got into the business of establishing with particular benefits. As it is created by the state, where state means government, the state may define it as it so wishes, and can change it at any time.

Therefore, there is nothing within the word 'marriage', that binds it exclusively to man and woman, for the purposes of the present political debate.

We just said the same thing. The state has the right to change definitions of terms, which causes mass confusion, making people acting stupid. When what we say no longer means only what we mean, communication breaks down. Perhaps one day "grab milk on the way home" means "I saw you milking that whore after work". There will be hell on earth, or worse. Because hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Or however the line goes.

What mass confusion? I never spoke to this. I am addressing the OP, which makes the argument that the government cannot re-define marriage because to do so causes chaos. Ignoring the chaos point, I addressed the idea that a government cannot do x because of effect y on the populous. I am saying that the government can do whatever it wishes to anything it creates, and the government created marriage, so it is free to do what it wills to it, regardless of the effects it has on the populous, provided it does so in accordance to the proper regulation and law.

It is incorrect to say that if I make product y I cant then change to call it product t if I so wish because I created product y; it is mine to do with as I wish. The government created marriage and, so long as it abides by the rules and regulations, it may define it as it wishes. To talk of chaos is merely irrelevant babble as it relates to the argument presented in the OP.

Yes, technically they are able to do so, but they mustn't, because it'll destroy society. It's like calling Pluto a moon instead of a planet now. People will likely refer to it as either moon or planet, but only one is right. Think of the mass confusion!!

We're talking more than legal issues here. The impact will certainly decimate the nation.

Again, for the second time, 'the destruction of society' argument is irrelevant. If the change is made within the confines of regulation, then it is permissible. There is nothing within the idea of marriage that demands it retain one definition over another.

As one of the great justices on the Supreme Court wrote in an opinion, and I paraphrase, if the people wish to go to hell in a hand basket, then the courts are obliged to allow it to occur, so long as it is in accordance with the law.
     
Thank you to Stuch and Shrantic for their most generous donations.
OneWithDunamis
Shiro-Jin

So how do you feel about Polygamy?

I'd latch on moral reasons to that topic, and I'm not going to because we're talking about the butchering of languages, which destroys society, whereas a polygamist union may only ruin a family.

Oh, i'm still on that topic. It seems like you're against polygamy, but I didn't get a very clear answer with that.

It was a lead-up question.
 
     
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