What makes a sentence meaningful?

[Repellant]

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Structure
Premises
Terms
Definitions
Philosophy

In that order.

So if I were to say some kind of metaphor, like, i dunno, "My love is a red rose", how exactly are those four concepts at play?

Five, and metaphors are terms in a way.

What do you mean by term?

The general conveyance of concepts in a LANGUAGE YOUR TINY BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND. : )

[Django XIII]

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

Then how do we understand novel utterances?

Through explanation and acceptance via viral use. I.E. catch-phrases.

Can you elaborate?

Do you have a point? If you answer that for me I'll elaborate.

I'm just curious to see what people think about the question I asked, but my main point is to get into debate with someone who tries to defend a naive theory of meaning. In order for that to get started, someone has to take a stance on what it is for an utterance to be meaningful and for my sake it would be best for that theory to consist of more than a sentence or two.

Ah, I figured. Well, I have some bad news for you: It's a pretty straight-forward process. In regards to catch-phrases repetition of a particular term with a new definition or alternating definition can be essentially started by a group of people who in turn popularize it through probably sheer luck though at times through naming schemes and cleverness.

Some popular terms are: "Butterfly Effect", named after a paper titled after the concept of a butterflies beating wings causing a tornado in Texas.

"Cool", started by some kid who was actually not hot.

"Hot", started by another kid who was in a rival faction.

"n00b", started by internet folk aimed at those who misused or broke MMO games on purpose.

"Phat", started by black people I think.

"Crunk", stared by some black rapper in the 90's, Lil... something.

"EDer", stared by Gaia Online.

Etc.

If you're saying that the meaning of a novel utterance is based on how people use it over and over, how do they understand it the very first time it's used? Say, for the sake of argument, that cool was first used this way to say something like "This game is cool". How would someone who heard this go from hearing a string of noises to deriving linguistic meaning out of them?

[Sariu]

Misery loves company
And company loves more

The voice and tone of another or the sound of our inner voice?

More loves everybody else
But hell is others

[I got bored one day]

Django XIII

If you're saying that the meaning of a novel utterance is based on how people use it over and over, how do they understand it the very first time it's used?

Words do happen to be ideas in a tangible form, so I would assume they coined it from circumstance or boredom.

Quote:

Say, for the sake of argument, that cool was first used this way to say something like "This game is cool". How would someone who heard this go from hearing a string of noises to deriving linguistic meaning out of them?

I...

Ask Repellant. He knows everything.

[Django XIII]

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Structure
Premises
Terms
Definitions
Philosophy

In that order.

So if I were to say some kind of metaphor, like, i dunno, "My love is a red rose", how exactly are those four concepts at play?

Five, and metaphors are terms in a way.

What do you mean by term?

The general conveyance of concepts in a LANGUAGE YOUR TINY BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND. : )

"General conveyance of concepts" seems a bit vague. If I say "Did Jim seem like a block of ice?", what would you say the term was?

[Repellant]

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Structure
Premises
Terms
Definitions
Philosophy

In that order.

So if I were to say some kind of metaphor, like, i dunno, "My love is a red rose", how exactly are those four concepts at play?

Five, and metaphors are terms in a way.

What do you mean by term?

The general conveyance of concepts in a LANGUAGE YOUR TINY BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND. : )

"General conveyance of concepts" seems a bit vague. If I say "Did Jim seem like a block of ice?", what would you say the term was?

"A block of ice" is terminology for coolness.

[Repellant]

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Quote:

Say, for the sake of argument, that cool was first used this way to say something like "This game is cool". How would someone who heard this go from hearing a string of noises to deriving linguistic meaning out of them?

I...

Ask Repellant. He knows everything.

I can't make sense out of nonsense. wink

[Django XIII]

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

If you're saying that the meaning of a novel utterance is based on how people use it over and over, how do they understand it the very first time it's used?

Words do happen to be ideas in a tangible form, so I would assume they coined it from circumstance or boredom.

That seems a little problematic, as words taken in isolation do not seem to have much meaning. Take word "plane". Alone it seems pretty meaningless. Does it mean a geometric concept? A machine that flies? Is it an order (ex. "plane!" wink ? A question ("plane?" wink ? Does the idea of a plane in your head mean all of these at once?

[I got bored one day]

Django XIII

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

If you're saying that the meaning of a novel utterance is based on how people use it over and over, how do they understand it the very first time it's used?

Words do happen to be ideas in a tangible form, so I would assume they coined it from circumstance or boredom.

That seems a little problematic, as words taken in isolation do not seem to have much meaning. Take word "plane". Alone it seems pretty meaningless. Does it mean a geometric concept? A machine that flies? Is it an order (ex. "plane!" wink ? A question ("plane?" wink ? Does the idea of a plane in your head mean all of these at once?

From a functioning categorical viewpoint it does mean all those things then it gets processed into a meaning by context. For instance if I asked you what is the definition of "cool" you'll generally think more than one thing, but if I say "Cool shoes" the meaning is categorized and applied automatically without your permission.

[Django XIII]

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Five, and metaphors are terms in a way.

What do you mean by term?

The general conveyance of concepts in a LANGUAGE YOUR TINY BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND. : )

"General conveyance of concepts" seems a bit vague. If I say "Did Jim seem like a block of ice?", what would you say the term was?

"A block of ice" is terminology for coolness.

So are you saying that terms are meaningful in virtue of what they refer to? If so, how do you explain the meaning of terms that refer to non-existent things?

[Repellant]

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Five, and metaphors are terms in a way.

What do you mean by term?

The general conveyance of concepts in a LANGUAGE YOUR TINY BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND. : )

"General conveyance of concepts" seems a bit vague. If I say "Did Jim seem like a block of ice?", what would you say the term was?

"A block of ice" is terminology for coolness.

So are you saying that terms are meaningful in virtue of what they refer to? If so, how do you explain the meaning of terms that refer to non-existent things?

They are only as meaningful as people make them out to be. Quit being pedantic.

[Django XIII]

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

If you're saying that the meaning of a novel utterance is based on how people use it over and over, how do they understand it the very first time it's used?

Words do happen to be ideas in a tangible form, so I would assume they coined it from circumstance or boredom.

That seems a little problematic, as words taken in isolation do not seem to have much meaning. Take word "plane". Alone it seems pretty meaningless. Does it mean a geometric concept? A machine that flies? Is it an order (ex. "plane!" wink ? A question ("plane?" wink ? Does the idea of a plane in your head mean all of these at once?

From a functioning categorical viewpoint it does mean all those things then it gets processed into a meaning by context. For instance if I asked you what is the definition of "cool" you'll generally think more than one thing, but if I say "Cool shoes" the meaning is categorized and applied automatically without your permission.

If the use of the words on a particular occasion seems to provide the meaning, why bother taking about ideas in peoples head? How could we ever know that that by a given word, another person was referring to the same sort of idea which you refer to by the word?

[I got bored one day]

Django XIII

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

Cutie-pie Sleepyhead

Django XIII

If you're saying that the meaning of a novel utterance is based on how people use it over and over, how do they understand it the very first time it's used?

Words do happen to be ideas in a tangible form, so I would assume they coined it from circumstance or boredom.

That seems a little problematic, as words taken in isolation do not seem to have much meaning. Take word "plane". Alone it seems pretty meaningless. Does it mean a geometric concept? A machine that flies? Is it an order (ex. "plane!" wink ? A question ("plane?" wink ? Does the idea of a plane in your head mean all of these at once?

From a functioning categorical viewpoint it does mean all those things then it gets processed into a meaning by context. For instance if I asked you what is the definition of "cool" you'll generally think more than one thing, but if I say "Cool shoes" the meaning is categorized and applied automatically without your permission.

If the use of the words on a particular occasion seems to provide the meaning, why bother taking about ideas in peoples head? How could we ever know that that by a given word, another person was referring to the same sort of idea which you refer to by the word?

Now I know you're looking for a debate but this is not the way to go about it. I'm going to call ad nauseam because I can't imagine actually answering your questions not posing more questions with less than necessary to explain answers.

If you're this curious about the in's and out's of human communication I recommend a book on human communication. As a matter of fact there are websites very readily able to help you!

[Django XIII]

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

The general conveyance of concepts in a LANGUAGE YOUR TINY BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND. : )

"General conveyance of concepts" seems a bit vague. If I say "Did Jim seem like a block of ice?", what would you say the term was?

"A block of ice" is terminology for coolness.

So are you saying that terms are meaningful in virtue of what they refer to? If so, how do you explain the meaning of terms that refer to non-existent things?

They are only as meaningful as people make them out to be.

So if the meaning of an utterance is dependent on whether or not people take it to be meaningful, then are you saying that a completely well-formed grammatical sentence of a language would be technically meaningless just because some people don't take it to be meaningful? Say I were talking to someone about, i dunno, the completeness theorem for natural deduction, and they had no idea what I was saying. Does that make my utterances meaningless to some degree?

[Repellant]

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

Django XIII

Repellant

The general conveyance of concepts in a LANGUAGE YOUR TINY BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND. : )

"General conveyance of concepts" seems a bit vague. If I say "Did Jim seem like a block of ice?", what would you say the term was?

"A block of ice" is terminology for coolness.

So are you saying that terms are meaningful in virtue of what they refer to? If so, how do you explain the meaning of terms that refer to non-existent things?

They are only as meaningful as people make them out to be.

So if the meaning of an utterance is dependent on whether or not people take it to be meaningful, then are you saying that a completely well-formed grammatical sentence of a language would be technically meaningless just because some people don't take it to be meaningful? Say I were talking to someone about, i dunno, the completeness theorem for natural deduction, and they had no idea what I was saying. Does that make my utterances meaningless to some degree?

It makes sense if someone, anyone else catches the gist of it. If you are babbling to deaf ears, it has no value, other than comedic.

Keep in mind that the purpose of language is communication.