[ Poll ] Transgender Issues- not just "men in dresses"

Are you affected by trans issues?

Yes- I'm trans/I think I might be trans		16.0%	[ 906 ]
Yes- I have a trans friend or relative		12.1%	[ 686 ]
Indirectly- I have a trans acquaintance		6.0%	[ 341 ]
Not directly, but I feel these issues affect me indirectly/ I feel that these issues affect everyone		23.6%	[ 1336 ]
Not at all		31.1%	[ 1764 ]
I don't know		11.1%	[ 630 ]

Total Votes: 5663

[Syndactyly]

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

I also mentioned that I am inconsistent (often on purpose, feigning another personality).

But not on the level being discussed here. Your 'inconsistencies' are generally consistent (with some accounting for 'character growth") at a certain level.
IYKWIM.

No, they really aren't. I've been all over the place with how I discuss things depending on my wild mood swings (at least in the past) IFKWIMAITYD. And more recently it can also be attributed to fatigue.

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

I tried to avoid being a total a*****e this whole time, but I'm going to say it: stop pretending like you're an expert. You're a ******** amatuer, you can't read my mind.

This only means her margin of error is greater than the margin of error an expert would have. And it's not 'reading your mind,' either - though the particular level of skill some have in specific applications or situations (ie. poker players at the card table) can make it appear like that if you don't know what's going on. "Sufficiently advanced technology" and all that.

Yeah, that was my point. The margin of error is larger, the "reading" is less accurate, I wouldn't hardly even call it a "reading."

[Syndactyly]

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

Blairnensha

Syndactyly

I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING TRANS RELATED NOW.

Kthx.

A post I made in another thread:

Syndactyly

It really annoys me that people will throw the tranny card down. It's so irrelevant.

"In my experience..."
"RN'T U A TRANNY THO?"
Like that invalidates my experiences.

And:
"I believe... [something judgmental, possibly prejudiced]"
"RN'T U A TRANNY THO?"
Subtext: "Doesn't that mean you should accept everyone because you're the lowest of the low?"
No, it doesn't. Because people like you treat me that way.

Why do people throw the tranny card down? EVERY time I make a thread about my gender/sexuality/experiences, someone will go, "RN'T U A TRANNY THO?" like that means I can't understand what life is like as a man. Seriously, the only thing I lack as a man is a p***s. The rest of the package has become a part of my life, with the exception of being legally male, which only as an effect on 1) Seeing the doctor 2) Getting a job, which after I get the job I'll probably clear things up with my boss and if things go well only they should know.

People think that EVERYONE knows I'm trans and acknowledges me as trans. No, IRL I'm steath, people know me as a man, except the people who knew me before transition, and I've only had ONE person bring it up in random conversation and that forced me to have to come out to strangers. :/

Probably because they figure transgenderism skews your perspective on everything that could possibly be related. Which isn't completely incorrect; it does skew your perspective. But that doesn't mean you can't still be right.

It's probably ok to just say 'ad hom now address my arguments' in those cases.

Yes, but how does it skew it?

For instance, I'll talk about just an everyday experience at a supermarket. What does what's in my pants have to do with it? No one knows about it.

You do.

And though in that particular situation it may be an irrelevant factor, that awareness (and how you've developed as a person as a result of it) has an affect on your perceptions. Which in turn will affect your memory and account of that experience.

How the ******** am I skewing it?

Okay, let's make this simpler.

How the ******** am I skewing it any more than THE NEXT GUY?

This awareness does not necessarily invalidate my experiences AS A MAN, and THAT is what they are talking about. They act like not having a d**k means I don't know what it is to be a man or living in the male role. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why must you nitpick when it is completely unnecessary? The negative female stereotypes are not ones you should willingly adopt.

[Kaosgirl]

Syndactyly

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING TRANS RELATED NOW.

Kthx.

A post I made in another thread:

Syndactyly

It really annoys me that people will throw the tranny card down. It's so irrelevant.

"In my experience..."
"RN'T U A TRANNY THO?"
Like that invalidates my experiences.

It's context that potentially alters the meaning somewhat. Sometimes that alteration (or even the mere potential of alteration) does make your experience irrelevant to the matter.

Note that "sometimes" is very different from "always" though.

Um, WHAT?

Are you ESL or dyslexic?

Syndactyly

Obviously that was in the context of people sharing experiences that WERE relevant.

That's not the context I was talking about.
Seriously, are you ESL or dyslexic?

Syndactyly

Like, say, a thread asking, "How do you ask someone out?" The situation is slightly different for men and women, gay and straight, etc. My experience as a man should not be invalidated by my crotch.

"Sometimes" doesn't mean "always." In fact, it's very different from the word "always."
Seriously, are you ESL or dyslexic?

[Kaosgirl]

Syndactyly

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

I also mentioned that I am inconsistent (often on purpose, feigning another personality).

But not on the level being discussed here. Your 'inconsistencies' are generally consistent (with some accounting for 'character growth") at a certain level.
IYKWIM.

No, they really aren't.

I knew you'd say something like that.

Syndactyly

I've been all over the place with how I discuss things depending on my wild mood swings (at least in the past) IFKWIMAITYD. And more recently it can also be attributed to fatigue.

And yet, underneath it all is a consistent pattern. A pattern which allows for some degree of predictability. Not perfect, of course; that's what is meant by"margin of error."

Syndactyly

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

I tried to avoid being a total a*****e this whole time, but I'm going to say it: stop pretending like you're an expert. You're a ******** amatuer, you can't read my mind.

This only means her margin of error is greater than the margin of error an expert would have. And it's not 'reading your mind,' either - though the particular level of skill some have in specific applications or situations (ie. poker players at the card table) can make it appear like that if you don't know what's going on. "Sufficiently advanced technology" and all that.

Yeah, that was my point. The margin of error is larger, the "reading" is less accurate, I wouldn't hardly even call it a "reading."

The blue is in likely contradiction to the red. But it won't surprise me when you don't see how.

[Syndactyly]

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING TRANS RELATED NOW.

Kthx.

A post I made in another thread:

Syndactyly

It really annoys me that people will throw the tranny card down. It's so irrelevant.

"In my experience..."
"RN'T U A TRANNY THO?"
Like that invalidates my experiences.

It's context that potentially alters the meaning somewhat. Sometimes that alteration (or even the mere potential of alteration) does make your experience irrelevant to the matter.

Note that "sometimes" is very different from "always" though.

Um, WHAT?

Are you ESL or dyslexic?

Are you a b***h? Is that Ad Hom? Could you consider for one second that you aren't being clear?

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

Obviously that was in the context of people sharing experiences that WERE relevant.

That's not the context I was talking about.
Seriously, are you ESL or dyslexic?

Be more specific, or shut the ******** up. You're being a douche now with the insults, I don't appreciate it. My cousin is dyslexic, dyslexia does not make him stupid.

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

Like, say, a thread asking, "How do you ask someone out?" The situation is slightly different for men and women, gay and straight, etc. My experience as a man should not be invalidated by my crotch.

"Sometimes" doesn't mean "always." In fact, it's very different from the word "always."
Seriously, are you ESL or dyslexic?

When ever should my crotch invalidate my experience as a man? And I am NOT talking about "as a MALE," obviously I don't know everything about having a p***s. rolleyes

You know what? I'm done with you and your ******** up attitude. This is over. You really don't contribute anything useful anyway, so I really don't need to see your posts. Heck, you even blocked Verd, who is often the voice of reason. That should have been a clue right there.

[Syndactyly]

Yeah, and on the other counts, you are incredibly full of s**t. Yes, I read all of it. Yes, this response suffices for all you'd given in response.

You will not be missed. And if you're on spiro, you're going to need more of it. You're more callous than most of the men I know.

[Syndactyly]

Gone. And no, I didn't block you "because you're right," I blocked you because you resorted to insulting the intelligence of minorities and people with disabilities.

Because I'm not much of a grudge holder, you'll probably be off after this stupid argument blows over.

[Kaosgirl]

Syndactyly

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

Blairnensha

Syndactyly

I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING TRANS RELATED NOW.

Kthx.

A post I made in another thread:

Why do people throw the tranny card down? EVERY time I make a thread about my gender/sexuality/experiences, someone will go, "RN'T U A TRANNY THO?" like that means I can't understand what life is like as a man. Seriously, the only thing I lack as a man is a p***s. The rest of the package has become a part of my life, with the exception of being legally male, which only as an effect on 1) Seeing the doctor 2) Getting a job, which after I get the job I'll probably clear things up with my boss and if things go well only they should know.

People think that EVERYONE knows I'm trans and acknowledges me as trans. No, IRL I'm steath, people know me as a man, except the people who knew me before transition, and I've only had ONE person bring it up in random conversation and that forced me to have to come out to strangers. :/

Probably because they figure transgenderism skews your perspective on everything that could possibly be related. Which isn't completely incorrect; it does skew your perspective. But that doesn't mean you can't still be right.

It's probably ok to just say 'ad hom now address my arguments' in those cases.

Yes, but how does it skew it?

For instance, I'll talk about just an everyday experience at a supermarket. What does what's in my pants have to do with it? No one knows about it.

You do.

And though in that particular situation it may be an irrelevant factor, that awareness (and how you've developed as a person as a result of it) has an affect on your perceptions. Which in turn will affect your memory and account of that experience.

How the ******** am I skewing it?

Okay, let's make this simpler.

How the ******** am I skewing it any more than THE NEXT GUY?

I couldn't say, specifically. I haven't actually looked at the account in question, and even if I did look at it I'd need to have a second perspective on the same events to pull out specifics. Then throw in the fact that I'm not yet omniscient, and there's room for error.

If you want general ideas, I already gave them. It's not my fault you didn't understand them.

Syndactyly

This awareness does not necessarily invalidate my experiences AS A MAN,

And I didn't say it did. I only said that it might. They're really not the same ideas at all.

Syndactyly

They act like not having a d**k means I don't know what it is to be a man or living in the male role.

I'm generally of the opinion that individual variance makes this whole 'what it is to be a man' mostly a useless idea from the start. But since you seem to be buying into it:

It's not actually about the d**k itself. It's about the hierarchy of experience, the idea that the knowledge of someone who's only been doing something for a couple years is usually going to be quite a bit smaller than that of someone who's been doing it all their life.

Syndactyly

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why must you nitpick when it is completely unnecessary?

I might ask you the same thing.
Which implies that I'm just echoing your behavior.

Syndactyly

The negative female stereotypes are not ones you should willingly adopt.

smile

[Blairnensha]

k whatever Syn you're right all this is irrelevant and I'm done arguing with you.

I'll try not to make that mistake in the future.

[Blairnensha]

Syndactyly

Yes, but how does it skew it?

For instance, I'll talk about just an everyday experience at a supermarket. What does what's in my pants have to do with it? No one knows about it.

Aren't you trans? Obviously cispeople won't get the "trans card" played on them when talking about the supermarket, so your perspective of whether or not people get the "trans card" when talking about the supermarket is skewed.

[Kaosgirl]

Syndactyly

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

Kaosgirl

Syndactyly

I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING TRANS RELATED NOW.

Kthx.

A post I made in another thread:

It's context that potentially alters the meaning somewhat. Sometimes that alteration (or even the mere potential of alteration) does make your experience irrelevant to the matter.

Note that "sometimes" is very different from "always" though.

Um, WHAT?

Are you ESL or dyslexic?

Are you a b***h? Is that Ad Hom?

Yes, I am a b***h.

But I don't actually see an argument in "Um, WHAT?" - I see a question. So I've got no idea how "Ad Hom" even pretends to apply.

Syndactyly

My cousin is dyslexic, dyslexia does not make him stupid.

And I would never claim otherwise. I would claim that he'd be more likely to misread my written statements than someone of comparable intelligence who wasn't dyslexic. Because that's more or less a common symptom of dyslexia. People with hayfever have trouble breathing in pollinated environments, people with dyslexia have trouble comprehending the written word.

(Posted For The Record more than anything else. If someone else questions anything I said to him, I'll respond to that. Otherwise, there's not much point clarifying when the one person who doesn't get my point is the one person who I know is blocking me.)

[Rosetta Celestine]

WTH just happened? neutral

[Syndactyly]

Blairnensha

Syndactyly

Yes, but how does it skew it?

For instance, I'll talk about just an everyday experience at a supermarket. What does what's in my pants have to do with it? No one knows about it.

Aren't you trans? Obviously cispeople won't get the "trans card" played on them when talking about the supermarket, so your perspective of whether or not people get the "trans card" when talking about the supermarket is skewed.

Wut. No,no,no,no,no. That is not what I was saying at all.

I was asking, why is it that when I TALK about an experience I had at the supermarket, people will say, "RN'T U A TRANNY THO?" like I can't have normal everyday experiences because I'm trans. I can only think of a few things being trans makes different for me:

1) Sex/dating/relationships, things that pertain to my anatomy
2) Legal issues, anything dealing with legal documents
3) Seeing the doctor, needing to disclose, undergoing treatment for people with my circumstances (seeing the gyno as a man, for instance)

That's it. Apples are still red to me, and if I hold the door open for a radical feminist she'll still skwawk that I'm being a chauvanist (like she would at any other man, because she doesn't know what's in my pants).

[Syndactyly]

Rosetta Celestine

WTH just happened? neutral

s**t went down.

I came.
I went.
I came back.
We fought about s**t.
Mud was slung.
And I couldn't take it anymore.
Thank you, Chicago!
I'll be here on Wednesdays!