Transgender Issues- not just "men in dresses"

Are you affected by trans issues?

Yes- I'm trans/I think I might be trans	16.2%	[ 919 ]
Yes- I have a trans friend or relative	12.1%	[ 687 ]
Indirectly- I have a trans acquaintance	6.0%	[ 341 ]
Not directly, but I feel these issues affect me indirectly/ I feel that these issues affect everyone	23.5%	[ 1336 ]
Not at all	31.1%	[ 1766 ]
I don't know	11.1%	[ 630 ]
Total Votes:			[ 5679 ]

[CrystalStarLight77]

Cap_America

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

Chaotic Fury

Cap_America

So that's a societal problem, not an inherent deficiency in the male brain.

But as many other have said before, we don't have male brains. That's why it's so hard for us. We have brains of the opposite sex.
It's not a lack of one thing in the brain, it's a complete opposite.

Once again, if you do not have a male brain, why are you commenting on what "doesn't work as a part of it?" When you say "Buying dresses isn't a part of a man's mind" You're just enforcing that stereotype.

If you want to change your genitals and appearance surgically because you really really want to, or because you don't ENJOY living life as a man or a woman, that much I can understand. But saying that somewhere, deep down, you're REALLY a member of the opposite sex is akin to delusion.

Transsexuals are not saying they are completely biologically the other gender so it has nothing to do with delusion. Just like the millions of people in America alone born intersexually where you can see on the outside of there body that they are mixed in gender, transsexual people are mostly just another variant of that. They are born gender mixed with the biological brain of a woman inside the body of a man. Which gives them the gender identity of a woman. While at the same time, with the many aspects of gender, the gender identity is the most defining part because it is who the person defines themselves as.

If that's true, if the problem comes down to brain chemistry and structure, thenit's a neurological disorder or a non-beneficial mutation akin to intersexuality, downs syndrome, or the ilk.

Exept their brain chemistry would be okay if they were able to express it and since that person already defines themselves as that gender, it wouldn't be consenting to try to change who they are on the inside. It would end up with more problems.

[Taineyah]

Cap_America

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

Chaotic Fury

Cap_America

So that's a societal problem, not an inherent deficiency in the male brain.

But as many other have said before, we don't have male brains. That's why it's so hard for us. We have brains of the opposite sex.
It's not a lack of one thing in the brain, it's a complete opposite.

Once again, if you do not have a male brain, why are you commenting on what "doesn't work as a part of it?" When you say "Buying dresses isn't a part of a man's mind" You're just enforcing that stereotype.

If you want to change your genitals and appearance surgically because you really really want to, or because you don't ENJOY living life as a man or a woman, that much I can understand. But saying that somewhere, deep down, you're REALLY a member of the opposite sex is akin to delusion.

Transsexuals are not saying they are completely biologically the other gender so it has nothing to do with delusion. Just like the millions of people in America alone born intersexually where you can see on the outside of there body that they are mixed in gender, transsexual people are mostly just another variant of that. They are born gender mixed with the biological brain of a woman inside the body of a man. Which gives them the gender identity of a woman. While at the same time, with the many aspects of gender, the gender identity is the most defining part because it is who the person defines themselves as.

If that's true, if the problem comes down to brain chemistry and structure, thenit's a neurological disorder or a non-beneficial mutation akin to intersexuality, downs syndrome, or the ilk.

Okay. Let's say person A is intersexed. Person A has only one testicle and has a p***s. A's other testicle is not there. Later in life, it is discovered when A gets ovarian cancer, that A is intersexed. It's invisible. You can't see it. People being born with one testicle just happens.

Person B is intersexed. Person B's brain is that of a female, but B's body is male. Invisible. Can't see it. It happens.

Now, where do intersexed people come from? There are a couple of places. One of the major ones is chimerism or "disappearing twin syndrome." This is the opposite of conjoined twins. In chimerism, fraternal twins are conceived. One twin is absorbed by the other twin before 12 weeks of gestation. These people can actually have two sets of DNA. In some cases, they have the DNA of both male and female. I have not read any studies to suggest this, but perhaps transgenderism could be just another case of chimerism?

[error-dot-tar]

Cap_America

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

Chaotic Fury

Cap_America

So that's a societal problem, not an inherent deficiency in the male brain.

But as many other have said before, we don't have male brains. That's why it's so hard for us. We have brains of the opposite sex.
It's not a lack of one thing in the brain, it's a complete opposite.

Once again, if you do not have a male brain, why are you commenting on what "doesn't work as a part of it?" When you say "Buying dresses isn't a part of a man's mind" You're just enforcing that stereotype.

If you want to change your genitals and appearance surgically because you really really want to, or because you don't ENJOY living life as a man or a woman, that much I can understand. But saying that somewhere, deep down, you're REALLY a member of the opposite sex is akin to delusion.

Transsexuals are not saying they are completely biologically the other gender so it has nothing to do with delusion. Just like the millions of people in America alone born intersexually where you can see on the outside of there body that they are mixed in gender, transsexual people are mostly just another variant of that. They are born gender mixed with the biological brain of a woman inside the body of a man. Which gives them the gender identity of a woman. While at the same time, with the many aspects of gender, the gender identity is the most defining part because it is who the person defines themselves as.

If that's true, if the problem comes down to brain chemistry and structure, thenit's a neurological disorder or a non-beneficial mutation akin to intersexuality, downs syndrome, or the ilk.

Except that there is technically nothing wrong with how the brain functions. The brain is perfectly healthy, it just doesn't match the body that it came with, so the signals end up being incorrect due to it being wired for a matching body. This is not the same as neurological disorders because the brain is perfectly fine. It's just what it happens to be in.

[Cap_America]

error[dot]exe

Cap_America

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

Chaotic Fury

Cap_America

So that's a societal problem, not an inherent deficiency in the male brain.

But as many other have said before, we don't have male brains. That's why it's so hard for us. We have brains of the opposite sex.
It's not a lack of one thing in the brain, it's a complete opposite.

Once again, if you do not have a male brain, why are you commenting on what "doesn't work as a part of it?" When you say "Buying dresses isn't a part of a man's mind" You're just enforcing that stereotype.

If you want to change your genitals and appearance surgically because you really really want to, or because you don't ENJOY living life as a man or a woman, that much I can understand. But saying that somewhere, deep down, you're REALLY a member of the opposite sex is akin to delusion.

Transsexuals are not saying they are completely biologically the other gender so it has nothing to do with delusion. Just like the millions of people in America alone born intersexually where you can see on the outside of there body that they are mixed in gender, transsexual people are mostly just another variant of that. They are born gender mixed with the biological brain of a woman inside the body of a man. Which gives them the gender identity of a woman. While at the same time, with the many aspects of gender, the gender identity is the most defining part because it is who the person defines themselves as.

If that's true, if the problem comes down to brain chemistry and structure, thenit's a neurological disorder or a non-beneficial mutation akin to intersexuality, downs syndrome, or the ilk.

Except that there is technically nothing wrong with how the brain functions. The brain is perfectly healthy, it just doesn't match the body that it came with, so the signals end up being incorrect due to it being wired for a matching body. This is not the same as neurological disorders because the brain is perfectly fine. It's just what it happens to be in.

Would you say that a depressed person isn't suffering from a neurological disorder because their brain just happens to not produce the correct amount of seratonin that keeps them free of depression? The brain functions fine, it just has a deficiency in seratonin production. Saying that a brain with a deficiency in seratonin production is a brain that's not perfectly fine is a judgement call. We medicate depressed people to fix their brain chemistry. Why is that different?

And I'd like to see some sources for the whole "Man's brain in a woman's body" thing. If that were true, kids could go get CAT scans to see what gender they were supposed to be, and it would be diagnosed much more easily as a medical disorder, akin to, say, having a brain that was too big for your head and required fluid drainage.

[Westly]

Cap_America

Would you say that a depressed person isn't suffering from a neurological disorder because their brain just happens to not produce the correct amount of seratonin that keeps them free of depression? The brain functions fine, it just has a deficiency in seratonin production. Saying that a brain with a deficiency in seratonin production is a brain that's not perfectly fine is a judgement call. We medicate depressed people to fix their brain chemistry. Why is that different?

And I'd like to see some sources for the whole "Man's brain in a woman's body" thing. If that were true, kids could go get CAT scans to see what gender they were supposed to be, and it would be diagnosed much more easily as a medical disorder, akin to, say, having a brain that was too big for your head and required fluid drainage.

Try googleing transgenderism and the size of the hypothalamus. Unfortunately, the studies have been post-mortem, and all in adult MtF's, so that would, as far as medical science is concerned, checking for a child's hypothalamus size in regards to gender, not scientific.

Would make for an interesting study though!

[CrystalStarLight77]

Cap_America

Would you say that a depressed person isn't suffering from a neurological disorder because their brain just happens to not produce the correct amount of seratonin that keeps them free of depression? The brain functions fine, it just has a deficiency in seratonin production. Saying that a brain with a deficiency in seratonin production is a brain that's not perfectly fine is a judgement call. We medicate depressed people to fix their brain chemistry. Why is that different?

As we explained above its different because they would be okay if the were able to express who they are on the inside. If someone freely embraced depression they wouldn't be okay.

It wouldn't be consenting either. When something has been a part of who someone defines themselves as their who lifes, its a core part of their personality.

Quote:

And I'd like to see some sources for the whole "Man's brain in a woman's body" thing. If that were true, kids could go get CAT scans to see what gender they were supposed to be, and it would be diagnosed much more easily as a medical disorder, akin to, say, having a brain that was too big for your head and required fluid drainage.

Oh come on you didn't read the first post when they gave scientific sources?

[error-dot-tar]

Cap_America

error[dot]exe

Cap_America

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

Once again, if you do not have a male brain, why are you commenting on what "doesn't work as a part of it?" When you say "Buying dresses isn't a part of a man's mind" You're just enforcing that stereotype.

If you want to change your genitals and appearance surgically because you really really want to, or because you don't ENJOY living life as a man or a woman, that much I can understand. But saying that somewhere, deep down, you're REALLY a member of the opposite sex is akin to delusion.

Transsexuals are not saying they are completely biologically the other gender so it has nothing to do with delusion. Just like the millions of people in America alone born intersexually where you can see on the outside of there body that they are mixed in gender, transsexual people are mostly just another variant of that. They are born gender mixed with the biological brain of a woman inside the body of a man. Which gives them the gender identity of a woman. While at the same time, with the many aspects of gender, the gender identity is the most defining part because it is who the person defines themselves as.

If that's true, if the problem comes down to brain chemistry and structure, thenit's a neurological disorder or a non-beneficial mutation akin to intersexuality, downs syndrome, or the ilk.

Except that there is technically nothing wrong with how the brain functions. The brain is perfectly healthy, it just doesn't match the body that it came with, so the signals end up being incorrect due to it being wired for a matching body. This is not the same as neurological disorders because the brain is perfectly fine. It's just what it happens to be in.

Would you say that a depressed person isn't suffering from a neurological disorder because their brain just happens to not produce the correct amount of seratonin that keeps them free of depression? The brain functions fine, it just has a deficiency in seratonin production. Saying that a brain with a deficiency in seratonin production is a brain that's not perfectly fine is a judgement call. We medicate depressed people to fix their brain chemistry. Why is that different?

And I'd like to see some sources for the whole "Man's brain in a woman's body" thing. If that were true, kids could go get CAT scans to see what gender they were supposed to be, and it would be diagnosed much more easily as a medical disorder, akin to, say, having a brain that was too big for your head and required fluid drainage.

The difference is that treating depression is correcting a problem the person wants to be rid of. Doing the same thing with transsexuality would be repressing it, because the person doesn't have a problem with their mind. They acknowledge the problem as something wrong with their body. It's the body that causes the distress, not the chemicals released by the brain.

Quote:

Gender identity (i.e. the feeling to be male or to be female) is an important trait of a subject. Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex (19, 20, 21). In line with the hypothesis that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain contrasts with that of the genetic and physical characteristics of sex, our group has recently found that the size of the central subdivision of the BST (BSTc) was within the female range in genetically male-to-female transsexuals (22). In that study the, BSTc was defined on the basis of its vasoactive intestinal polypeptide innervation, which is probably mainly derived from the amygdala (23). A crucial question resulting from that study was, therefore, whether the difference according to gender in the BSTc is based on a neuronal difference in the BSTc itself or rather a reflection of a difference in innervation from the amygdala. To see whether the BSTc itself has a neuronal organization that is opposite to that of the genetic and genitalial characteristics of transsexuals, we determined the number of somatostatin (SOM)-expressing neurons in the BSTc, which is the major neuronal population in this structure (23).

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

Again, the problem isn't the signals that the brain sends out. Since it's connected with the physical construction of the brain, it can't be fixed by medication. You can change how something responds, but you can't change how it's constructed naturally without surgery

[Westly]

error[dot]exe

Cap_America

error[dot]exe

Cap_America

CrystalStarLight77

Transsexuals are not saying they are completely biologically the other gender so it has nothing to do with delusion. Just like the millions of people in America alone born intersexually where you can see on the outside of there body that they are mixed in gender, transsexual people are mostly just another variant of that. They are born gender mixed with the biological brain of a woman inside the body of a man. Which gives them the gender identity of a woman. While at the same time, with the many aspects of gender, the gender identity is the most defining part because it is who the person defines themselves as.

If that's true, if the problem comes down to brain chemistry and structure, thenit's a neurological disorder or a non-beneficial mutation akin to intersexuality, downs syndrome, or the ilk.

Except that there is technically nothing wrong with how the brain functions. The brain is perfectly healthy, it just doesn't match the body that it came with, so the signals end up being incorrect due to it being wired for a matching body. This is not the same as neurological disorders because the brain is perfectly fine. It's just what it happens to be in.

Would you say that a depressed person isn't suffering from a neurological disorder because their brain just happens to not produce the correct amount of seratonin that keeps them free of depression? The brain functions fine, it just has a deficiency in seratonin production. Saying that a brain with a deficiency in seratonin production is a brain that's not perfectly fine is a judgement call. We medicate depressed people to fix their brain chemistry. Why is that different?

And I'd like to see some sources for the whole "Man's brain in a woman's body" thing. If that were true, kids could go get CAT scans to see what gender they were supposed to be, and it would be diagnosed much more easily as a medical disorder, akin to, say, having a brain that was too big for your head and required fluid drainage.

The difference is that treating depression is correcting a problem the person wants to be rid of. Doing the same thing with transsexuality would be repressing it, because the person doesn't have a problem with their mind. They acknowledge the problem as something wrong with their body. It's the body that causes the distress, not the chemicals released by the brain.

Quote:

Gender identity (i.e. the feeling to be male or to be female) is an important trait of a subject. Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex (19, 20, 21). In line with the hypothesis that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain contrasts with that of the genetic and physical characteristics of sex, our group has recently found that the size of the central subdivision of the BST (BSTc) was within the female range in genetically male-to-female transsexuals (22). In that study the, BSTc was defined on the basis of its vasoactive intestinal polypeptide innervation, which is probably mainly derived from the amygdala (23). A crucial question resulting from that study was, therefore, whether the difference according to gender in the BSTc is based on a neuronal difference in the BSTc itself or rather a reflection of a difference in innervation from the amygdala. To see whether the BSTc itself has a neuronal organization that is opposite to that of the genetic and genitalial characteristics of transsexuals, we determined the number of somatostatin (SOM)-expressing neurons in the BSTc, which is the major neuronal population in this structure (23).

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

Again, the problem isn't the signals that the brain sends out. Since it's connected with the physical construction of the brain, it can't be fixed by medication. You can change how something responds, but you can't change how it's constructed naturally without surgery

Thank you for finding it!

I'm at work.. stare

[Cap_America]

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

Would you say that a depressed person isn't suffering from a neurological disorder because their brain just happens to not produce the correct amount of seratonin that keeps them free of depression? The brain functions fine, it just has a deficiency in seratonin production. Saying that a brain with a deficiency in seratonin production is a brain that's not perfectly fine is a judgement call. We medicate depressed people to fix their brain chemistry. Why is that different?

As we explained above its different because they would be okay if the were able to express who they are on the inside. If someone freely embraced depression they wouldn't be okay.

It wouldn't be consenting either. When something has been a part of who someone defines themselves as their who lifes, its a core part of their personality.

Quote:

And I'd like to see some sources for the whole "Man's brain in a woman's body" thing. If that were true, kids could go get CAT scans to see what gender they were supposed to be, and it would be diagnosed much more easily as a medical disorder, akin to, say, having a brain that was too big for your head and required fluid drainage.

Oh come on you didn't read the first post when they gave scientific sources?

Alright, I can see that. I can also see that it's scientifically classified as a disorder.

[error-dot-tar]

Cap_America

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

Would you say that a depressed person isn't suffering from a neurological disorder because their brain just happens to not produce the correct amount of seratonin that keeps them free of depression? The brain functions fine, it just has a deficiency in seratonin production. Saying that a brain with a deficiency in seratonin production is a brain that's not perfectly fine is a judgement call. We medicate depressed people to fix their brain chemistry. Why is that different?

As we explained above its different because they would be okay if the were able to express who they are on the inside. If someone freely embraced depression they wouldn't be okay.

It wouldn't be consenting either. When something has been a part of who someone defines themselves as their who lifes, its a core part of their personality.

Quote:

And I'd like to see some sources for the whole "Man's brain in a woman's body" thing. If that were true, kids could go get CAT scans to see what gender they were supposed to be, and it would be diagnosed much more easily as a medical disorder, akin to, say, having a brain that was too big for your head and required fluid drainage.

Oh come on you didn't read the first post when they gave scientific sources?

Alright, I can see that. I can also see that it's scientifically classified as a disorder.

There's people that are challenging that definition, but I don't know very much about their reasoning for it.

[CrystalStarLight77]

This is from:
http://equalityrainbow.eq.funpic.org/tgnis.html

When some people hear the words "Gender Identity Disorder" from a doctor. They might assume they are saying they shouldn't change their gender or be transsexual. Also on the other hand, when transsexual people hear it they might think, I don't feel "disordered" when I am expressing myself. Then they might be offended by that term because of it.

This is not the true meaning here in either case of what doctors are saying.

It is not that the basic concept of changing genders, like in SRS or transsexual people expressing their inner gender, that is disorderly. Actually they are saying that is the cure.

For instance, when having the mind of a girl in the body of a guy and their mind tells them they have a body of a girl, they are capable of experiencing a disturbance when they are reminded of the rest of their physical features aren't girlish. When that happens the best treatment for that is making the rest of their body feel like their true inner gender. That is specifically what they are saying.

They also mention societal prejudice. While that is not a part of GID itself, it can hurt them mentally in effect.

Having an aversion from your gender body parts, is different from having a variety in gender expression.

DSM - "Gender Identity disorder can be distinguished from simple noncomformity to stereo-typical sex role behavior by the extent and pervasiveness of the cross-gender wishes, interests, and activities. This disorder is not meant to describe a child’s nonconformity to stereotypic sex-role behavior as, for example, in “tomboyishness” in girls or “sissyish” behavior in boys. Rather, it represents a profound disturbance of the individual’s sense of identity with regard to maleness or femaleness. Behavior in children that merely does not fit the cultural stereotype of masculinity or femininity should not be given the diagnosis unless the full syndrome is present, including marked distress or impairment."

Diagnostic Criteria for Gender Identity Disorder

A. A strong persistent cross-gender identification (not merely a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex). In children, the disturbance is manifested by four (or more) of the following:


Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex. In boys, preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing.


Strong and persistent preferences for cross-sex roles in make believe play or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.


Intense desire to participate in the stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex. Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.

In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as a stated desire to be the other sex, frequent passing as the other sex, desire to live or be treated as the other sex, or the conviction that he or she has the typical feelings and reactions of the other sex.

B. Persistent discomfort with his or her sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex. In children, the disturbance is manifested by any of the following:


In boys, assertion that his p***s or testes are disgusting or will disappear or assertion that it would be better not to have a p***s, or aversion toward rough-and-tumble play and rejection of male stereotypical toys, games, and activities.


In girls, rejection of urinating in a sitting position, assertion that she has or will grow a p***s, or assertion that she does not want to grow breasts or menstruate, or marked aversion toward normative feminine clothing.

In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as preoccupation with getting rid of primary and secondary sex characteristics (e.g., request for hormones, surgery, or other procedures to physically alter sexual characteristics to simulate the other sex) or belief that he or she was born the wrong sex.

C. The disturbance is not concurrent with physical intersex condition.

D. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Therefore encouraging sex changes and Transexual equality is not encouraging a disorder, it is encouraging the cure.

Harry Benjamins Standards of Care:

Are Gender Identity Disorders Mental Disorders?

" To qualify as a mental disorder, a behavioral pattern must result in a significant adaptive disadvantage to the person or cause personal mental suffering. The DSM-IV and ICD-10 have defined hundreds of mental disorders which vary in onset, duration, pathogenesis, functional disability, and treatability. The designation of gender identity disorders as mental disorders is not a license for stigmatization, or for the deprivation of gender patients' civil rights. The use of a formal diagnosis is often important in offering relief, providing health insurance coverage, and guiding research to provide more effective future treatments. "

People with GID deserve to be treated just as any other person because they are people. Even treating them friendly helps them very much with what they have to go through. No matter the case they didn't ask to be born that way and to be treated the way society treats them.

[I Spy With My Little Eye]

The Indubitable Katie-Kat

One of the things that irks me is when people say, "Well, what's their real gender?" It makes me want to smack them. Gender, being a purely mental thing, is what they identify as. It doesn't matter what chromosomes they were born with--it matters what their identity is.

As for their birth sex, I feel it's rude and disgusting to ask. If I were to meet a post-op trans and he or she trusted me enough to tell me his or her birth sex, I would be honored to be trusted with knowledge of something so huge.

I agree, what it's really about is what you feel inside! It doesn't matter if you were born one way or another. Plus, Who cares?

[Cap_America]

CrystalStarLight77

This is from:
http://equalityrainbow.eq.funpic.org/tgnis.html

When some people hear the words "Gender Identity Disorder" from a doctor. They might assume they are saying they shouldn't change their gender or be transsexual. Also on the other hand, when transsexual people hear it they might think, I don't feel "disordered" when I am expressing myself. Then they might be offended by that term because of it.

This is not the true meaning here in either case of what doctors are saying.

It is not that the basic concept of changing genders, like in SRS or transsexual people expressing their inner gender, that is disorderly. Actually they are saying that is the cure.

For instance, when having the mind of a girl in the body of a guy and their mind tells them they have a body of a girl, they are capable of experiencing a disturbance when they are reminded of the rest of their physical features aren't girlish. When that happens the best treatment for that is making the rest of their body feel like their true inner gender. That is specifically what they are saying.

They also mention societal prejudice. While that is not a part of GID itself, it can hurt them mentally in effect.

Having an aversion from your gender body parts, is different from having a variety in gender expression.

DSM - "Gender Identity disorder can be distinguished from simple noncomformity to stereo-typical sex role behavior by the extent and pervasiveness of the cross-gender wishes, interests, and activities. This disorder is not meant to describe a child’s nonconformity to stereotypic sex-role behavior as, for example, in “tomboyishness” in girls or “sissyish” behavior in boys. Rather, it represents a profound disturbance of the individual’s sense of identity with regard to maleness or femaleness. Behavior in children that merely does not fit the cultural stereotype of masculinity or femininity should not be given the diagnosis unless the full syndrome is present, including marked distress or impairment."

Diagnostic Criteria for Gender Identity Disorder

A. A strong persistent cross-gender identification (not merely a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex). In children, the disturbance is manifested by four (or more) of the following:


Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex. In boys, preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing.


Strong and persistent preferences for cross-sex roles in make believe play or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.


Intense desire to participate in the stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex. Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.

In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as a stated desire to be the other sex, frequent passing as the other sex, desire to live or be treated as the other sex, or the conviction that he or she has the typical feelings and reactions of the other sex.

B. Persistent discomfort with his or her sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex. In children, the disturbance is manifested by any of the following:


In boys, assertion that his p***s or testes are disgusting or will disappear or assertion that it would be better not to have a p***s, or aversion toward rough-and-tumble play and rejection of male stereotypical toys, games, and activities.


In girls, rejection of urinating in a sitting position, assertion that she has or will grow a p***s, or assertion that she does not want to grow breasts or menstruate, or marked aversion toward normative feminine clothing.

In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as preoccupation with getting rid of primary and secondary sex characteristics (e.g., request for hormones, surgery, or other procedures to physically alter sexual characteristics to simulate the other sex) or belief that he or she was born the wrong sex.

C. The disturbance is not concurrent with physical intersex condition.

D. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Therefore encouraging sex changes and Transexual equality is not encouraging a disorder, it is encouraging the cure.

Harry Benjamins Standards of Care:

Are Gender Identity Disorders Mental Disorders?

" To qualify as a mental disorder, a behavioral pattern must result in a significant adaptive disadvantage to the person or cause personal mental suffering. The DSM-IV and ICD-10 have defined hundreds of mental disorders which vary in onset, duration, pathogenesis, functional disability, and treatability. The designation of gender identity disorders as mental disorders is not a license for stigmatization, or for the deprivation of gender patients' civil rights. The use of a formal diagnosis is often important in offering relief, providing health insurance coverage, and guiding research to provide more effective future treatments. "

People with GID deserve to be treated just as any other person because they are people. Even treating them friendly helps them very much with what they have to go through. No matter the case they didn't ask to be born that way and to be treated the way society treats them.

I'm not saying they should be treated any differently, I'm saying that they, by the definition of the DSM-IV and medical science, have what is termed as a disorder. A medical disorder.

[CrystalStarLight77]

Cap_America

I'm not saying they should be treated any differently, I'm saying that they, by the definition of the DSM-IV and medical science, have what is termed as a disorder. A medical disorder.

Okay so what is your point? I only showed that to explain how them expressing themselves or getting gender reasignment surgery is not the part they are saying is disorderly.

[Cap_America]

CrystalStarLight77

Cap_America

I'm not saying they should be treated any differently, I'm saying that they, by the definition of the DSM-IV and medical science, have what is termed as a disorder. A medical disorder.

Okay so what is your point? I only showed that to explain how them expressing themselves or getting gender reasignment surgery is not the part they are saying is disorderly.

I think you might be confused about the definition of disorder. As a noun, it doesn't mean disorganized, or inherently wrong, but it does mean that these people are abnormal and undergoing personal suffering.