Transgender Issues- not just "men in dresses"

Are you affected by trans issues?

Yes- I'm trans/I think I might be trans	16.2%	[ 919 ]
Yes- I have a trans friend or relative	12.1%	[ 687 ]
Indirectly- I have a trans acquaintance	6.0%	[ 341 ]
Not directly, but I feel these issues affect me indirectly/ I feel that these issues affect everyone	23.5%	[ 1336 ]
Not at all	31.1%	[ 1766 ]
I don't know	11.1%	[ 630 ]
Total Votes:			[ 5679 ]

[DysPerDis]

Yondara_The ChaosMage

Siriusly_Black

Ringo Kanoe

Could you possibly summarize what is your main point, DysPerDis?

I believe it was summarised in the title...

That trans extends beyond men in dresses...

eek

Oh, wow... Snap! whee

Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious, but apparently... rolleyes

[Calixti]

DysPerDis

Yondara_The ChaosMage

Siriusly_Black

Ringo Kanoe

Could you possibly summarize what is your main point, DysPerDis?

I believe it was summarised in the title...

That trans extends beyond men in dresses...

eek

Oh, wow... Snap! whee

Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious, but apparently... rolleyes

Silly Dys, it also applies to women in pants! razz

Wait...that means I'm trans! crying

[Cap_America]

Most women appear to be wearing pants now, but I get your point. I can't comprehend the concept of transgenderism, at least as it was explained to me, but I don't feel the pressing need to stop them.

[Taineyah]

Cap_America

Most women appear to be wearing pants now, but I get your point. I can't comprehend the concept of transgenderism, at least as it was explained to me, but I don't feel the pressing need to stop them.

Maybe I can help you to understand a little better. If this doesn't help, then ignore it. but I hope it does.

In the case of a transgendered person, their body function does not match what their mind tells them it should be. On a smaller scale, take my hands for an example. I was born with a defect of the tendons in both hands. It did not show up until I was 15 years old. It causes severe stiffness in my hands and extreme pain. At 15, I was a very talented classical musician. I was nearing virtuosity on the guitar. I was forced, by my tendon defect, to give it up. To this day, years later, when I pick up a guitar, I believe that I am going to be able to play that guitar. I want to alter my body to match the function my brain says it should have.

This is no different from a transgendered person. Since I have personal experience with FTM individuals and their stories, I will use that as an example. My one friend was born female. He's a wonderful boy, but he does not have a p***s. Every morning, he wakes up and reaches down to adjust himself, if you get my meaning. Every single morning, he is struck dumb for several minutes when his hand meets a v****a. Just waking up in the morning is traumatic for him because his mind does not meet his body. His brain says that his body should function a certain way, but it doesn't. Thus, he wants to alter his body to match the function his brain says it should have.

Make sense now? Even a little? Brain function and bodily function don't match. It's that simple, for the most part.

[Cap_America]

Taineyah

Cap_America

Most women appear to be wearing pants now, but I get your point. I can't comprehend the concept of transgenderism, at least as it was explained to me, but I don't feel the pressing need to stop them.

Maybe I can help you to understand a little better. If this doesn't help, then ignore it. but I hope it does.

In the case of a transgendered person, their body function does not match what their mind tells them it should be. On a smaller scale, take my hands for an example. I was born with a defect of the tendons in both hands. It did not show up until I was 15 years old. It causes severe stiffness in my hands and extreme pain. At 15, I was a very talented classical musician. I was nearing virtuosity on the guitar. I was forced, by my tendon defect, to give it up. To this day, years later, when I pick up a guitar, I believe that I am going to be able to play that guitar. I want to alter my body to match the function my brain says it should have.

This is no different from a transgendered person. Since I have personal experience with FTM individuals and their stories, I will use that as an example. My one friend was born female. He's a wonderful boy, but he does not have a p***s. Every morning, he wakes up and reaches down to adjust himself, if you get my meaning. Every single morning, he is struck dumb for several minutes when his hand meets a v****a. Just waking up in the morning is traumatic for him because his mind does not meet his body. His brain says that his body should function a certain way, but it doesn't. Thus, he wants to alter his body to match the function his brain says it should have.

Make sense now? Even a little? Brain function and bodily function don't match. It's that simple, for the most part.

What about people who are delusional, who say they're Jesus Christ, or Napoleon Bonaparte, or they're from Mars? Their brains do not match their bodies. What makes a person with two X chromosomes who believes that they are male any more than delusional? What part of them, specifically, is male, that would lead them to believe such a thing?

The difference between a woman believing she is a man and you believing that your hands are capable of playing is that a) your hands were once capable of playing, and then rotated to a state of not being capable of playing. They are clearly not capable of playing a guitar, by any definition of the term if I understand you correctly. A woman, born with woman parts, is not capable of being male, by any definition. At best, she can go through surgery to outwardly appear male, but she'd be forever doomed to a half-life of maledom, never able to be truly what she thinks she is, as her sex had been predetermined before birth. You can't escape your chromosomes, and all you can hope for is heavy surgery, daily testosterone hormone intakes, and severe kidney and liver damage.

People think they're something else all the time. People can believe something with all of their hearts, but it doesn't make it true. It just makes them wrong. While I am sympathetic towards the constant mental anguish I am sure they go through, I remain confused as to how such a line of thought processes could occur, and how it continues to be reinforced.

[Taineyah]

Cap_America

Taineyah

Cap_America

Most women appear to be wearing pants now, but I get your point. I can't comprehend the concept of transgenderism, at least as it was explained to me, but I don't feel the pressing need to stop them.

Maybe I can help you to understand a little better. If this doesn't help, then ignore it. but I hope it does.

In the case of a transgendered person, their body function does not match what their mind tells them it should be. On a smaller scale, take my hands for an example. I was born with a defect of the tendons in both hands. It did not show up until I was 15 years old. It causes severe stiffness in my hands and extreme pain. At 15, I was a very talented classical musician. I was nearing virtuosity on the guitar. I was forced, by my tendon defect, to give it up. To this day, years later, when I pick up a guitar, I believe that I am going to be able to play that guitar. I want to alter my body to match the function my brain says it should have.

This is no different from a transgendered person. Since I have personal experience with FTM individuals and their stories, I will use that as an example. My one friend was born female. He's a wonderful boy, but he does not have a p***s. Every morning, he wakes up and reaches down to adjust himself, if you get my meaning. Every single morning, he is struck dumb for several minutes when his hand meets a v****a. Just waking up in the morning is traumatic for him because his mind does not meet his body. His brain says that his body should function a certain way, but it doesn't. Thus, he wants to alter his body to match the function his brain says it should have.

Make sense now? Even a little? Brain function and bodily function don't match. It's that simple, for the most part.

What about people who are delusional, who say they're Jesus Christ, or Napoleon Bonaparte, or they're from Mars? Their brains do not match their bodies. What makes a person with two X chromosomes who believes that they are male any more than delusional? What part of them, specifically, is male, that would lead them to believe such a thing?

The difference between a woman believing she is a man and you believing that your hands are capable of playing is that a) your hands were once capable of playing, and then rotated to a state of not being capable of playing. They are clearly not capable of playing a guitar, by any definition of the term if I understand you correctly. A woman, born with woman parts, is not capable of being male, by any definition. At best, she can go through surgery to outwardly appear male, but she'd be forever doomed to a half-life of maledom, never able to be truly what she thinks she is, as her sex had been predetermined before birth. You can't escape your chromosomes, and all you can hope for is heavy surgery, daily testosterone hormone intakes, and severe kidney and liver damage.

People think they're something else all the time. People can believe something with all of their hearts, but it doesn't make it true. It just makes them wrong. While I am sympathetic towards the constant mental anguish I am sure they go through, I remain confused as to how such a line of thought processes could occur, and how it continues to be reinforced.

The difference is that transgendered people do not believe they are a different person, but a different gender. Dutch studies have shown (and Dysperdis has the link but I continuously lose it...) that the brain structure of a transgendered person is different. Their brains match their gender and not their sex. This indicates that it is not something suppressable or reconditionable.

[Cap_America]

Taineyah

Cap_America

Taineyah

Cap_America

Most women appear to be wearing pants now, but I get your point. I can't comprehend the concept of transgenderism, at least as it was explained to me, but I don't feel the pressing need to stop them.

Maybe I can help you to understand a little better. If this doesn't help, then ignore it. but I hope it does.

In the case of a transgendered person, their body function does not match what their mind tells them it should be. On a smaller scale, take my hands for an example. I was born with a defect of the tendons in both hands. It did not show up until I was 15 years old. It causes severe stiffness in my hands and extreme pain. At 15, I was a very talented classical musician. I was nearing virtuosity on the guitar. I was forced, by my tendon defect, to give it up. To this day, years later, when I pick up a guitar, I believe that I am going to be able to play that guitar. I want to alter my body to match the function my brain says it should have.

This is no different from a transgendered person. Since I have personal experience with FTM individuals and their stories, I will use that as an example. My one friend was born female. He's a wonderful boy, but he does not have a p***s. Every morning, he wakes up and reaches down to adjust himself, if you get my meaning. Every single morning, he is struck dumb for several minutes when his hand meets a v****a. Just waking up in the morning is traumatic for him because his mind does not meet his body. His brain says that his body should function a certain way, but it doesn't. Thus, he wants to alter his body to match the function his brain says it should have.

Make sense now? Even a little? Brain function and bodily function don't match. It's that simple, for the most part.

What about people who are delusional, who say they're Jesus Christ, or Napoleon Bonaparte, or they're from Mars? Their brains do not match their bodies. What makes a person with two X chromosomes who believes that they are male any more than delusional? What part of them, specifically, is male, that would lead them to believe such a thing?

The difference between a woman believing she is a man and you believing that your hands are capable of playing is that a) your hands were once capable of playing, and then rotated to a state of not being capable of playing. They are clearly not capable of playing a guitar, by any definition of the term if I understand you correctly. A woman, born with woman parts, is not capable of being male, by any definition. At best, she can go through surgery to outwardly appear male, but she'd be forever doomed to a half-life of maledom, never able to be truly what she thinks she is, as her sex had been predetermined before birth. You can't escape your chromosomes, and all you can hope for is heavy surgery, daily testosterone hormone intakes, and severe kidney and liver damage.

People think they're something else all the time. People can believe something with all of their hearts, but it doesn't make it true. It just makes them wrong. While I am sympathetic towards the constant mental anguish I am sure they go through, I remain confused as to how such a line of thought processes could occur, and how it continues to be reinforced.

The difference is that transgendered people do not believe they are a different person, but a different gender. Dutch studies have shown (and Dysperdis has the link but I continuously lose it...) that the brain structure of a transgendered person is different. Their brains match their gender and not their sex. This indicates that it is not something suppressable or reconditionable.

So being transgendered is a medical illness?

[Taineyah]

Cap_America

Taineyah

The difference is that transgendered people do not believe they are a different person, but a different gender. Dutch studies have shown (and Dysperdis has the link but I continuously lose it...) that the brain structure of a transgendered person is different. Their brains match their gender and not their sex. This indicates that it is not something suppressable or reconditionable.

So being transgendered is a medical illness?

It may very well be. It is only beginning to be fully studied, as we didn't have really good ways to look at the brains of the living until recently. So we don't know for sure, but it is looking like the brain and the body don't match up. It is FAR more risky, I'm sure you know, to attempt to change brain structure than body structure, even if we knew in full all the ways the brain was different.

[Cap_America]

Taineyah

Cap_America

Taineyah

The difference is that transgendered people do not believe they are a different person, but a different gender. Dutch studies have shown (and Dysperdis has the link but I continuously lose it...) that the brain structure of a transgendered person is different. Their brains match their gender and not their sex. This indicates that it is not something suppressable or reconditionable.

So being transgendered is a medical illness?

It may very well be. It is only beginning to be fully studied, as we didn't have really good ways to look at the brains of the living until recently. So we don't know for sure, but it is looking like the brain and the body don't match up. It is FAR more risky, I'm sure you know, to attempt to change brain structure than body structure, even if we knew in full all the ways the brain was different.

Let me ask you--If it wasn't risky, if there was a method of changing the brain's structure through, say, medication, surgery, therapy, magic genie, etc...would you consider changing that any more or less ethical than changing their body? And isn't simply having surgery to appear the opposite gender a half-measure that causes more harm than good? It's impossible to fully change your sex through current medical procedures, and the surgery and hormone treatment that people go through is enormously damaging to the systems and a dangerous procedure in any event. How is it worth it?

[Taineyah]

Cap_America

Taineyah

Cap_America

Taineyah

The difference is that transgendered people do not believe they are a different person, but a different gender. Dutch studies have shown (and Dysperdis has the link but I continuously lose it...) that the brain structure of a transgendered person is different. Their brains match their gender and not their sex. This indicates that it is not something suppressable or reconditionable.

So being transgendered is a medical illness?

It may very well be. It is only beginning to be fully studied, as we didn't have really good ways to look at the brains of the living until recently. So we don't know for sure, but it is looking like the brain and the body don't match up. It is FAR more risky, I'm sure you know, to attempt to change brain structure than body structure, even if we knew in full all the ways the brain was different.

Let me ask you--If it wasn't risky, if there was a method of changing the brain's structure through, say, medication, surgery, therapy, magic genie, etc...would you consider changing that any more or less ethical than changing their body?

I don't know for sure. I think it would be less ethical, because you would be taking away a part of a person that is integral to their personality. I'm not sure what kind of repercussions a gender change might have on the human psyche--it might require a full reboot. I just don't know.

Quote:

And isn't simply having surgery to appear the opposite gender a half-measure that causes more harm than good?

Imagine looking at your body everyday and seeing a reminder that your body is horrifically opposed to your mind. It's like being the Elephant Man. Psychologically, it can be very important to a transperson to make body match gender, at least aesthetically.

Quote:

It's impossible to fully change your sex through current medical procedures, and the surgery and hormone treatment that people go through is enormously damaging to the systems and a dangerous procedure in any event. How is it worth it?

It's worth it because simply calling oneself a gender and using a name of that gender is insufficient to be treated as that gender. You have to look the part in order to be treated as your gender. It is damaging to be treated as the opposite gender.

[Cap_America]

Taineyah

Cap_America

Taineyah

Cap_America

Taineyah

The difference is that transgendered people do not believe they are a different person, but a different gender. Dutch studies have shown (and Dysperdis has the link but I continuously lose it...) that the brain structure of a transgendered person is different. Their brains match their gender and not their sex. This indicates that it is not something suppressable or reconditionable.

So being transgendered is a medical illness?

It may very well be. It is only beginning to be fully studied, as we didn't have really good ways to look at the brains of the living until recently. So we don't know for sure, but it is looking like the brain and the body don't match up. It is FAR more risky, I'm sure you know, to attempt to change brain structure than body structure, even if we knew in full all the ways the brain was different.

Let me ask you--If it wasn't risky, if there was a method of changing the brain's structure through, say, medication, surgery, therapy, magic genie, etc...would you consider changing that any more or less ethical than changing their body?

I don't know for sure. I think it would be less ethical, because you would be taking away a part of a person that is integral to their personality. I'm not sure what kind of repercussions a gender change might have on the human psyche--it might require a full reboot. I just don't know.

Quote:

And isn't simply having surgery to appear the opposite gender a half-measure that causes more harm than good?

Imagine looking at your body everyday and seeing a reminder that your body is horrifically opposed to your mind. It's like being the Elephant Man. Psychologically, it can be very important to a transperson to make body match gender, at least aesthetically.

Quote:

It's impossible to fully change your sex through current medical procedures, and the surgery and hormone treatment that people go through is enormously damaging to the systems and a dangerous procedure in any event. How is it worth it?

It's worth it because simply calling oneself a gender and using a name of that gender is insufficient to be treated as that gender. You have to look the part in order to be treated as your gender. It is damaging to be treated as the opposite gender.

So, because they're not treated in the specific manner they'd like to be treated, they go and have surgery...So far, it just sounds like a medical condition, and that these people who do so have a neurological disorder. If their brain chemistry or makeup is causing a conflict with their bodies, how is that different from someone who's clinically depressed, who's brain isn't producing enough seratonin, and who needs to be medicated for that? It's a medical treatment for a brain/body dysphasia. Or someone medicated for schizophrenia, who have ventricular enlargements and require treatment?

[Taineyah]

Cap_America

So, because they're not treated in the specific manner they'd like to be treated, they go and have surgery...So far, it just sounds like a medical condition, and that these people who do so have a neurological disorder. If their brain chemistry or makeup is causing a conflict with their bodies, how is that different from someone who's clinically depressed, who's brain isn't producing enough seratonin, and who needs to be medicated for that? It's a medical treatment for a brain/body dysphasia. Or someone medicated for schizophrenia, who have ventricular enlargements and require treatment?

If a depressed person or a schizophrenic was of no danger to him/herself or others, what harm would there be in their condition? It is not the same thing.

[willn91]

at my school we are trying to make our school like transgender friendly. we want to have a place where transgender people can change for pe and go to the bathroom if they feel uncomfortable in the boys/girls locker/bathrooms. currently we don't have any transgender that i know of and my GSA club is making this a big priority. we want to be ready for a transgender, we don't want to change things when they come because they may feel like were doing this all just for them.

[Cap_America]

Taineyah

Cap_America

So, because they're not treated in the specific manner they'd like to be treated, they go and have surgery...So far, it just sounds like a medical condition, and that these people who do so have a neurological disorder. If their brain chemistry or makeup is causing a conflict with their bodies, how is that different from someone who's clinically depressed, who's brain isn't producing enough seratonin, and who needs to be medicated for that? It's a medical treatment for a brain/body dysphasia. Or someone medicated for schizophrenia, who have ventricular enlargements and require treatment?

If a depressed person or a schizophrenic was of no danger to him/herself or others, what harm would there be in their condition? It is not the same thing.

One has a brain that's not functioning in the correct manner, and requires medication and treatment. So does the other. Or one has a body that's not functioning in the correct manner and requires medication and treatment. So does the other. The way you were talking about it, being transgendered is a very harmful thing to yourself, so much so that "Just waking up in the morning is traumatic for him because his mind does not meet his body". It sounds exactly like an illness.

[Taineyah]

Cap_America

Taineyah

Cap_America

So, because they're not treated in the specific manner they'd like to be treated, they go and have surgery...So far, it just sounds like a medical condition, and that these people who do so have a neurological disorder. If their brain chemistry or makeup is causing a conflict with their bodies, how is that different from someone who's clinically depressed, who's brain isn't producing enough seratonin, and who needs to be medicated for that? It's a medical treatment for a brain/body dysphasia. Or someone medicated for schizophrenia, who have ventricular enlargements and require treatment?

If a depressed person or a schizophrenic was of no danger to him/herself or others, what harm would there be in their condition? It is not the same thing.

One has a brain that's not functioning in the correct manner, and requires medication and treatment. So does the other. Or one has a body that's not functioning in the correct manner and requires medication and treatment. So does the other. The way you were talking about it, being transgendered is a very harmful thing to yourself, so much so that "Just waking up in the morning is traumatic for him because his mind does not meet his body". It sounds exactly like an illness.

Look at it this way: What point is there in changing a person's whole personality when changing their body will have the same effect? Would my friend be the same person if he identified his gender as female? Probably not. He wouldn't be the same person I know and love. He'd have the same appearance. He'd have the same voice. But he wouldn't be the guy I know. He'd be someone else.

I'm an androgynous female. When I crossplay as a male, (I'm an anime fangirl, so I use the word crossplay to mean "cross-dressed costumed role play" True transpeople probably would not use the word crossplay) I take the role play part of crossplay VERY seriously. As I am a method actor, I BECOME, for lack of any other way to describe it, male. I actually do wonder about where my p***s is, if I do a full weekend crossplay, because I immerse myself so thoroughly. I don't think just everyone is capable of it. I know that most people, even transpeople I talk to about this, think it is odd that I can become that male. When I am a boy, I am a different person. My personality changes. Parts are heightened. Parts are lost.

The idea of simply "fixing" the brain of a transperson brings up ethical and spiritual questions similar to theoretical brain transplant--who is the person in that body? Is it the person they were before, mentally? Is it the person the body looks like? Is it some combination of the two?