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I_Write_Ivre

My only idea is more jam.


Well, I do agree that humiliation is one of the best kinds of punishments. Know what else works? My dad was teaching back when it was legal for minors to smoke cigarettes, and he was working at a school for delinquent kids. Anyway, parents all gave permission for their kids to smoke, and they gave the cigarettes to the school staff to give out to the students during the smoking breaks. However, if the kids misbehaved, they wouldn't get their cigarettes. This was a big deal to them, apparently in kept them in line very well.

Point is, find something they feel they CAN'T go without, and withhold it from them as punishment. If nothing like that can be found, get them hooked on crack or something.
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marshmallowcreampie
I_Write_Ivre

My only idea is more jam.


Well, I do agree that humiliation is one of the best kinds of punishments. Know what else works? My dad was teaching back when it was legal for minors to smoke cigarettes, and he was working at a school for delinquent kids. Anyway, parents all gave permission for their kids to smoke, and they gave the cigarettes to the school staff to give out to the students during the smoking breaks. However, if the kids misbehaved, they wouldn't get their cigarettes. This was a big deal to them, apparently in kept them in line very well.

Point is, find something they feel they CAN'T go without, and withhold it from them as punishment. If nothing like that can be found, get them hooked on crack or something.


Well, kids are trying to boycott the healthy foods in the cafeteria and vending machines. If only teachers could give out cokes or chips or permission to have pizza instead of mystery meat.
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Well, kids are trying to boycott the healthy foods in the cafeteria and vending machines. If only teachers could give out cokes or chips or permission to have pizza instead of mystery meat.


Yeah, but are those things that kids "OMG CAN'T GO WITHOUT"? Maybe if they could ONLY have the good foods if they behave, and the crap stuff if they misbehave. Perhaps also put the good and bad kids in different cafeterias, that way they can't share foods, and there's an extra level of shame. Probably wouldn't be as effective as getting them hooked on cigarettes and withholding them for misbehavior. Not to mention the high likelihood of kids just bringing their own junk food. There are cell phones, but the schools would probably have to give them back at the end of the day because it's unlikely that parents would give permission for anything longer.
I_Write_Ivre
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Yeah, we've had a rash of "you guys suck! I'm never coming back!" posts lately. Sometimes they can be talked around to being more reasonable and less ~drama~-tastic, sometimes... not.

I can't tell anymore, but... are these people trolling (even subconsciously)? It seems like thier ability to be coherent gets worse, as if they're pushing you harder and harder to ask nicely 'Can you make sense?' just so they can blow up.

Or it could be they get worse with every thread.
I dunno, it seems kinda like a noob/immature move to me. When teenagers get on the internet, they don't really get how to have a discourse. I know I didn't, lo those many years ago.

On the one hand, being a teenager is about learning those things, and on the other, I think a lot of our culture ends up giving them the wrong impression. Formal debates, for example, are held up as the pinnacle of intellectual discussion, when really they're hardly interactive and don't demand the slightest courtesy (a HUGE part of being able to talk reasonably with other people) or the participants. So teens end up at the height of Being Influenced By Stupid Things, and then you spend the next few years un-learning that.

It's fall, there's a new school year, maybe Gaia upped its advertising somewhere.


I don't know where you live, but i've noticed America seems to have gotten some sense of entitlement somewhere (I blame the Karate Kid theory) and it's being blown out of proportion each year.

I quit teaching because my fiance told me (his mom worked for about a decade at a high school) that subs and new teachers don't tend to last long in the field. Not due primarily to the horrible kids, but due to their horrible parents defending their kids stupidity.


((Hope you all don't mind me jumping into this conversation))

I've noticed the whole self-entitlement thing when I started working. My first month of working at the coffee shop consisted primarily of angry customers because their caramel macchiato's hatchet pattern was lopsided, or they weren't getting their drinks fast enough, or simply because I wanted to converse with another human being. Every day it gets worse.

The worst part about it is, people are freaking greedy. Each morning, parents let their kids go up to the counter, order a few drinks --- all the biggest sizes --- before their stupid parents buy them for their stupid brat. The family stands there and bad-mouths how you make the drinks as you're making them. You can't retaliate. It's against the policy. I learned that when a woman ordered five drinks during a rush and had me remake them all four times while telling her son how she's seen faster baristas and how he should go take all the money from the tip jar because I didn't deserve it. She flipped out when I told her off, and it was funny. Completely worth it.

Some of the parents I've seen come into my work place should have their children taken away. Who gives their five year old a quad shot latte? I'm not allowed to tell them that it's bad for their already-bouncing-off-the-wall child, but they like to tell me how they'd like to report me to corporate for "child endangerment". It's hard to win.

Every time someone walks up to the counter, they say, "I need". Well, no. No one needs it. Really. Nobody does. They just want it. Most of the time, they can't do anything themselves. If we ask them if they need room for cream in their coffee, they expect us to put it in there for them. I'm sorry, but I don't understand why they can't do it themselves.

I could continue, but I'm sure I've made my point. Plus, my stories would get rather boring after awhile, I think. Don't get me wrong, I do like my job a lot. I couldn't imagine working elsewhere at the moment, but some people just need to be knocked down a few pegs, and I'm not allowed to do so.
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Sounds like you need notalwaysright.com

I hate those people by the way. It makes me look horrible by association, especially when I can't answer her immediately while fumbling for my card.

marshmallowcreampie

You can't shame kids. it's like, against the law or something (it was actually written down, but I don't know if it's law or policy).
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You can't shame kids. it's like, against the law or something (it was actually written down, but I don't know if it's law or policy).


Considering that most punishments can be considered a form of shaming, I'm wondering how you can stretch that law.
marshmallowcreampie
Considering that most punishments can be considered a form of shaming, I'm wondering how you can stretch that law.

And has using shame directly as a punishment been proven to be more effective than contemporary penalties?
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marshmallowcreampie
Considering that most punishments can be considered a form of shaming, I'm wondering how you can stretch that law.

And has using shame directly as a punishment been proven to be more effective than contemporary penalties?


I imagine it would be. Kids don't always care about what authorities think of them, which is one reason many punishments aren't effective. But they DO care about what their peers think of them.
marshmallowcreampie
I imagine it would be. Kids don't always care about what authorities think of them, which is one reason many punishments aren't effective. But they DO care about what their peers think of them.

If strict punishments meant keeping people in line, then Soviet Russia should have been a bastion of order and law. What you're talking about is taking people who are already acting out, and further socially isolating them. I don't see any good coming from that.
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I imagine it would be. Kids don't always care about what authorities think of them, which is one reason many punishments aren't effective. But they DO care about what their peers think of them.

If strict punishments meant keeping people in line, then Soviet Russia should have been a bastion of order and law. What you're talking about is taking people who are already acting out, and further socially isolating them. I don't see any good coming from that.


I don't mean strict punishments, just mildly humiliating ones. And those can just be reserved for kids who do really bad offenses, like bullying. Those punks deserve humiliation.
marshmallowcreampie
I don't mean strict punishments, just mildly humiliating ones. And those can just be reserved for kids who do really bad offenses, like bullying. Those punks deserve humiliation.

Bully is a lot like piracy, isn't it? A lot of people have been trying to stamp it out, but they haven't really accomplished much. The problem in this case is that the bullies don't see themselves as wrong, and neither do most of the students. The fact that you might get detention for it doesn't stop anyone.

Piracy is the same way. On virtually every DVD you buy you'll get a big notice by the FBI warning you about all the nasty things that will happen to you if you try and illegally steal it. Nobody really considers piracy wrong these days. So nobody really cares.

Just like locking up pirates is a waste of time and money, humiliating bullies is also a bad idea. Usually they act the way they do out of insecurity, or a desperate need for social validation. By attempting to isolate them from their peers, you're only making the problem worse.
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Just like locking up pirates is a waste of time and money, humiliating bullies is also a bad idea. Usually they act the way they do out of insecurity, or a desperate need for social validation. By attempting to isolate them from their peers, you're only making the problem worse.


Some people deserve it. Some kids are bastards who know very well what they're doing. I say kids should post videos of their bullying incidents on YouTube, with no attempt to hide the identity of the bullies. If the bully doesn't care about his victim, why should the victim care about the bully? Have this happen to a few bullies and it discourages the others. Let the whole world call them out, like those kids who were picking on that bus assistant.

God, I'm messed up...

Anyway, we're getting pretty badly off topic. cat_rofl
marshmallowcreampie
Some people deserve it. Some kids are bastards who know very well what they're doing. I say kids should post videos of their bullying incidents on YouTube, with no attempt to hide the identity of the bullies. If the bully doesn't care about his victim, why should the victim care about the bully? Have this happen to a few bullies and it discourages the others. Let the whole world call them out, like those kids who were picking on that bus assistant.

God, I'm messed up...

You're not the only one who's been bullied, Marshmallow.

What you're talking about is retribution, and it's a part of human nature. It's part of what kept us alive when our species was still huddled in caves, barely clinging to life. Our society is more complex now, and that sort of reaction only makes things worse.

Yes, it might be gratifying to single out people who you feel have harmed you out, and show the world what horrible people they are. Then sit back and watch as the world marks them forever. But, then wouldn't you have come full circle? You yourself would become a bully, and you'd only add more misery and suffering to the world.

Instead, what schools should be doing is focusing on counselling. Sit the bully and his victim down for an hour, and make them reconcile with one another. Make the fighting stop.
marshmallowcreampie
Anyway, we're getting pretty badly off topic. cat_rofl

I'm not really sure if Cheshirecat2130 should be horrified, or honoured that we're using him as the quintessential example of what's wrong with the world.
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You're not the only one who's been bullied, Marshmallow.

What you're talking about is retribution, and it's a part of human nature. It's part of what kept us alive when our species was still huddled in caves, barely clinging to life. Our society is more complex now, and that sort of reaction only makes things worse.

Yes, it might be gratifying to single out people who you feel have harmed you out, and show the world what horrible people they are. Then sit back and watch as the world marks them forever. But, then wouldn't you have come full circle? You yourself would become a bully, and you'd only add more misery and suffering to the world.

Instead, what schools should be doing is focusing on counselling. Sit the bully and his victim down for an hour, and make them reconcile with one another. Make the fighting stop.


You are completely right. I haven't just been bullied, my whole life I've been a doormat and my anger sort of built up, and now I'm this angry hateful and unforgiving person. I try to be reasonable and logical, but sometimes my anger just spills out, especially when I see it happening to other people. I have a lot of violent thoughts and I don't want other people to become like me because some idiot they share classes with decides to torment them because they think it's funny. I have no idea how to deal with my problems so it's probably just going to continue until I can find a solution.

Quote:
marshmallowcreampie
Anyway, we're getting pretty badly off topic. cat_rofl

I'm not really sure if Cheshirecat2130 should be horrified, or honoured that we're using him as the quintessential example of what's wrong with the world.


Eh, I think we just got off topic.
marshmallowcreampie
You are completely right. I haven't just been bullied, my whole life I've been a doormat and my anger sort of built up, and now I'm this angry hateful and unforgiving person. I try to be reasonable and logical, but sometimes my anger just spills out, especially when I see it happening to other people. I have a lot of violent thoughts and I don't want other people to become like me because some idiot they share classes with decides to torment them because they think it's funny. I have no idea how to deal with my problems so it's probably just going to continue until I can find a solution.

I hope things get better for you soon.

marshmallowcreampie
Eh, I think we just got off topic.

Yeah well, he was still the catalyst for this discussion. And, I dunno, something tells me he's the type to take this sort of thing personally.

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