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Zaxoth Arturos
Nematri

I know, I thought it was a parody at first. I just took one glance at the main character and thought "...This has gotta be a joke...."

Let's play a little game! SPOT THE MARY SUE CLICHES!
You guys spot the cliche, and if you get them all, you win a prize!

"Hi my name is Ebony Darkness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that’s how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don’t know who she is get da hell out of here!). I’m not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he’s a major ******** hottie. I’m a vampire but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I’m also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I’m in the seventh year (I’m seventeen). I’m a goth (in case you couldn’t tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them."
I highlighted all the ones I could spot.


Congratulations, you win a prize.

And what the hell is an apostrophe doing in the middle of the word "Darkness" anyway?
Nematri

Congratulations, you win a prize.

And what the hell is an apostrophe doing in the middle of the word "Darkness" anyway?
To emphasize "Dark"?


Heh...my prize is the satisfaction of knowing that I could mark the majority of that as Mary-Sue indicators?

Edit: xd Awesome.
Zaxoth Arturos
Nematri

Congratulations, you win a prize.

And what the hell is an apostrophe doing in the middle of the word "Darkness" anyway?
To emphasize "Dark"?


Heh...my prize is the satisfaction of knowing that I could mark the majority of that as Mary-Sue indicators?

Edit: xd Awesome.


Check your inventory, I sent you an actual prize lol

I've gotta wonder what that kid thinks Ebony's parents are like to give her a name likle Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Insanity Godawfulness Emo Goth Tragedy Horror Whatever. Ebony by itself is just about a believable name, but the rest...?
Nematri
[Nishin
Nematri
[Nishin
Nematri
High-five.
I think more dumb kids need to open their minds and realise that sadness is a normal human thing and can be explored and written about by writers as such. The fact that a writer writes a sad scene in their story does not make them this idiotic teen stereotype.
Woot, I just got a high-five from Nematri! Best day ever.

I'm so glad that someone agrees with me. I really don't understand when this emo stereotype became "popular" (for lack of a better word). I just turned around, literally, and heard some emo jokes. It was madness how wuickly the fad caught on! eek


From what I remember, it became popular when I was round about 17 and in my second-to-last year of school. (3 years ago.) It really annoyed me too, because I'd suffered problems (family and bullying-related) all through school. Where previously people had just left me alone about it, all of a sudden they all felt the need to call me "emo". You have NO idea how much that made me want to pimp-slap them around the head with a tea-tray.
Yeah, that makes sense. I first heard the word "emo" in the seventh grade.

Quote:
On a similar note, reason number cheese and onion You're gonna get your a** kicked in the writers' forum if you portray the entire spectrum of human emotion solely as "angst". Really people...fear, sadness, regret, loss, adversity...these are all very real feelings with often quite different effects upon people. A good writer would explore them as such. You, however, have just lumped it all under "WOE IS MEEEEEEEEE! MY LIFE SUXXXXXXXXXXX!" Way to create emotionally shallow, boring, one-sided characters, genius.
Vincent Valentine and Lucrecia Cresent (from Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantay VII) and Sasuke (from Naruto) all tie for first on the angst-o-meter, hitting the maximum measurement of a bazillion.


While we're on the subject of angst, and everything that's bad about writing in general, have you seen the example fanfic (I believe it's called My Immortal) contained in Wikipedia's article on Mary Sues?
It illustrates most of what we've been chatting about in this post to a WTF-worthy level of badness. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2828044/1/My_Immortal
(Warning: may make you lose faith in humanity. Or maybe laugh so hard milk comes out of your nose.)


Holy God! I wanted to gouge my eyes out. That was terrible. Her sister's is worse, but the plot is masked by chatspeak, then there is someone else (evidently a friend)... terrible. I serioulsy lost faith in the human race and the american way.
bijoux_roses


Holy God! I wanted to gouge my eyes out. That was terrible. Her sister's is worse, but the plot is masked by chatspeak, then there is someone else (evidently a friend)... terrible. I serioulsy lost faith in the human race and the american way.


Don't lose faith. One bad egg isn't going to spoil the whole soup.
Nematri
I know, I thought it was a parody at first. I just took one glance at the main character and thought "...This has gotta be a joke...."

Let's play a little game! SPOT THE MARY SUE CLICHES!
You guys spot the cliche, and if you get them all, you win a prize!

"Hi my name is Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that’s how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don’t know who she is get da hell out of here!). I’m not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he’s a major ******** hottie. I’m a vampire but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I’m also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I’m in the seventh year (I’m seventeen). I’m a goth (in case you couldn’t tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them."


New game: SPOT THE ANDS! Seriously...it seemed to me like the whole excerpt was one sentence. And I'm a little dead inside now.

Also,at the part highlighted in blue: She wants to be related to Gerard Way because he's hot, but then...wouldn't that be incest? I think I need some Advil...
bijoux_roses
Nematri
[Nishin
Nematri
[Nishin
Woot, I just got a high-five from Nematri! Best day ever.

I'm so glad that someone agrees with me. I really don't understand when this emo stereotype became "popular" (for lack of a better word). I just turned around, literally, and heard some emo jokes. It was madness how wuickly the fad caught on! eek


From what I remember, it became popular when I was round about 17 and in my second-to-last year of school. (3 years ago.) It really annoyed me too, because I'd suffered problems (family and bullying-related) all through school. Where previously people had just left me alone about it, all of a sudden they all felt the need to call me "emo". You have NO idea how much that made me want to pimp-slap them around the head with a tea-tray.
Yeah, that makes sense. I first heard the word "emo" in the seventh grade.

Quote:
On a similar note, reason number cheese and onion You're gonna get your a** kicked in the writers' forum if you portray the entire spectrum of human emotion solely as "angst". Really people...fear, sadness, regret, loss, adversity...these are all very real feelings with often quite different effects upon people. A good writer would explore them as such. You, however, have just lumped it all under "WOE IS MEEEEEEEEE! MY LIFE SUXXXXXXXXXXX!" Way to create emotionally shallow, boring, one-sided characters, genius.
Vincent Valentine and Lucrecia Cresent (from Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantay VII) and Sasuke (from Naruto) all tie for first on the angst-o-meter, hitting the maximum measurement of a bazillion.


While we're on the subject of angst, and everything that's bad about writing in general, have you seen the example fanfic (I believe it's called My Immortal) contained in Wikipedia's article on Mary Sues?
It illustrates most of what we've been chatting about in this post to a WTF-worthy level of badness. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2828044/1/My_Immortal
(Warning: may make you lose faith in humanity. Or maybe laugh so hard milk comes out of your nose.)


Holy God! I wanted to gouge my eyes out. That was terrible. Her sister's is worse, but the plot is masked by chatspeak, then there is someone else (evidently a friend)... terrible. I serioulsy lost faith in the human race and the american way.


Holy crap, there's a SISTER? Who is WORSE?

*Intrigued out of morbid curiosity*
Zaxoth Arturos
[Nishin
Vincent Valentine and Lucrecia Cresent (from Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantay VII) ... tie for first on the angst-o-meter, hitting the maximum measurement of a bazillion.
If all emotion is locked onto only being one single emotion (angst), perhaps. However, there is more depth to their tale than you give credit for.
Okay, I'll admit that I wasn't fully paying attention to DoC or Naruto; I was either doing homework or finihing a novel. I, in all probablitiy wasn't paying attention at all and not even analyzing a single word and trying to kill as many DG soldiers as I could without running out of Potions. (Can you believe that was one sentence?)
[Nishin
Zaxoth Arturos
[Nishin
Vincent Valentine and Lucrecia Cresent (from Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantay VII) ... tie for first on the angst-o-meter, hitting the maximum measurement of a bazillion.
If all emotion is locked onto only being one single emotion (angst), perhaps. However, there is more depth to their tale than you give credit for.
Okay, I'll admit that I wasn't fully paying attention to DoC or Naruto; I was either doing homework or finihing a novel. I, in all probablitiy wasn't paying attention at all and not even analyzing a single word and trying to kill as many DG soldiers as I could without running out of Potions. (Can you believe that was one sentence?)
Ah, you can bash Naruto all you like. But DoC had some of its backstory contained within the actual Final Fantasy VII game, so I suppose without that added information, DoC might have come across as an angst-fest. (And yep, I can. My sentences have been long-winded, as well, but I have been trying to cut back on the lengthiness, as one individual had encountered a post of mine that contained lengthy sentences and verbiage beyond his reading level, and accused me of not having English as my primary language.)
Echo Tech's avatar

Dapper Cutesmasher

Nematri

"Hi my name is Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that’s how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don’t know who she is get da hell out of here!). I’m not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he’s a major ******** hottie. I’m a vampire but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I’m also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I’m in the seventh year (I’m seventeen). I’m a goth (in case you couldn’t tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them."

Please tell me this wasn't serious!

Nevertheless, it totally made my day. I think even my headache is lifting, when one would expect it to worsen after reading word-vomit like that.
RainyChaos
Nematri

"Hi my name is Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that’s how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don’t know who she is get da hell out of here!). I’m not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he’s a major ******** hottie. I’m a vampire but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I’m also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I’m in the seventh year (I’m seventeen). I’m a goth (in case you couldn’t tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them."

Please tell me this wasn't serious!

Nevertheless, it totally made my day. I think even my headache is lifting, when one would expect it to worsen after reading word-vomit like that.


As far as I can tell, it was serious...sadly gonk

A fine example of What Not To Do though.
Reason A - black and white

Morally non-ambiguous things are fine as long as you do it WELL. So far, I've only seen it pulled off in fairy tales. Most of the time though, your 'hero' shouldn't be 100% good (or perfect) and your villain shouldn't be 100% evil (or flawed).

Even the most noble hero has a proper flaw and even the most repulsive villain has a proper redeeming quality. No matter how small.
Firlodge
Reason A - black and white

Morally non-ambiguous things are fine as long as you do it WELL. So far, I've only seen it pulled off in fairy tales. Most of the time though, your 'hero' shouldn't be 100% good (or perfect) and your villain shouldn't be 100% evil (or flawed).

Even the most noble hero has a proper flaw and even the most repulsive villain has a proper redeeming quality. No matter how small.


Amen to that! ^_^ I hate it when people use the excuse "well, he's the good guy, duh! It's not like he can do wrong!" to justify their hero doing something that, in the real world, would be considered morally dubious. You know what I mean? Ditto when people make their villain a one-dimensional puppy-kicking baby-kidnapping evil-plot-hatching baddie/videogame boss. The bad guy is human still; no matter how repugnant an individual he may be, surely there's something about him that makes the reader think "geez, where did it go wrong for him?" or shows that he has feelings too.

However, this leads me onto Reason B- lousy attempts to avoud black-and-white

So often, when someone creates a bad guy for their story, people like us tell them to give their antagonist some shred of humanity that's still there, something potentially redeeming, or some personality beyond "BWAHAHAHA I ARE EBIL!" And that's all good advice.

However, upon hearing this advice, a lot of young writers think "hmm, give my bad guy a redeeming quality...I know...let's make him HAWT!" so they end up with an antagonist whose sole redeeming quality/humanity consists in...physical appearance. gonk "He's evil...but he's omg smexy! So we don't have to notice that he's evil!!!" ...erm...NO.

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