Esiris
But I think the problem is that the trying doesn't mean it succeeds. But I also wonder how many people really try to begin with- and how many people either don't know that eclecticism isn't the same as Wicca, or when they do know, care more about being "right" than learning the difference.
That's true but I don't think it will stop them as far as I see right now this issue will only keep progressing and there will easily be less people of your opinion be it right or not and more people of the other and majority will easily over power. It doesn't make it right but it's probably what's going to happen.
I'm not sure what you mean by being right?
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Not really- because there's a difference between Mysteries and secrets. For example, the rituals and stuff are supposed to be secret- but if someone breaks their oaths and tells you, that won't make you experience the Mysteries and it won't transform you the way the initiations and the training does.
Either way there's still no denying where this comes from whether it's the same experience or not. I think things like this happen a lot there have been plenty of strange christian groups that pop up every now and then that all the other groups think are plain crazy or completely going against everything christian but they are still technically under the title of Christianity.
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But isn't that them placing themselves before the gods? Look- I'm a seeker and a dedicant, but I'm not seeking to be Wiccan because I like the word.
I don't think so I think it's more about too much of the wrong information being pushed out there. I highly doubt any of those people are purposefully trying to go against what they think they are part of or insult it's origins.I don't think people really care about the word as much as you think more so they get attached to following something they think fits the word. I also don't think people seek to be Wiccan just cause it's there I think it happens because Wicca is usually the first type of paganism that pops up when you begin to learn about paganism so it kind of over shadows learning about other things.
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The more research I do, the more I think it's not obvious that their focus is more on Wicca. ...and it's still nagging at me that the only people who keep saying it's obvious are people who aren't initiates in Wicca.
To be a different branch or at least a seed from the same tree I don't thin it needs to be ~the same~ or else it would just be the same one wicca but like we both agree on we are talking about something different but as some will see it similar.
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Wicca is a calling. Wiccan teachers do not charge money for Wicca, but seekers do need to make the effort. If you're not willing to make the effort, to sacrifice to learn, then Wicca isn't the right path, and if you are willing and nothing is coming up, work towards it and be ready.
Not all martial artists make money from their teachings and true martial arts isn't a sport or a fighting style it's a way of life. No matter what you say the fact remains the opportunity for anyone to become a true Wiccan is not equal. That just makes it more obvious as to why some of these issues occur.
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Do you think it's fair, when you talk about martial arts, that people who aren't Kung Fu black belts tell people they are just because they want to be?
No but I do agree with people creating new styles of martial arts or mixing martial arts. It becomes something new but is either a branch of one martial arts or a new system all it's own with roots in a handful of other martial arts. There will of course be practitioners who think this is wrong but with out stuff like this occurring it wouldn't expand or improve.
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But I still see too many differences to see it as a new take on an old thing and not something completely different.
It makes me respect people from Reclaiming and Feri a lot- that they're honest that they're not Wiccan.
I kind of agree with you actually. There's only 2 reasons I prefer to go with Neo-wiccan 1 is because most of the time it's more similar to Wicca than it is to most other pagan practices and 2 because I think it's better to accept it now cause whether we like it or not I think the majority is going to win and force this branch in to existence. If it hasn't already.
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I think Cunningham is an ok intro to paganism- but not to Wicca. That's all any of the Wiccans around here ask for- not that people stop seeking or stop practicing what they practice, but that they stop confusing the stuff you get from a book with the Mysteries that make you Wiccan.
Which is why I am not a big fan of stuff like that cause it just adds to the confusion and further puts other paths in to shadow. Like it's an intro to paganism but if you stamp Wicca on the cover then people are gonna feel like that's
all Wicca and other paths don't leave room for that stuff or something... idk maybe that's just me =/
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But you kind of proved my point- it's easier, but easy and right are different things.
True but it's also hard to tell the difference when there are more wrong or half right sources out there than anything else. Most the time if people find what they want and think is right they won't bother continuing to dig around. Especially if what they find reoccurs more often than other things.
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The problem is that Christianity knows it's not Judaism and Islam and visa versa- they named themselves different things. There's no doubt that Wicca influenced a lot of the eclectic witchcraft religions- Ed Fitch was Wiccan and he published things that were inspired by Wicca to help train and teach seekers. There are all kinds of stuff that was inspired by Wicca that isn't Wicca itself. Christianity was inspired by Judaism- but that doesn't make a Catholic a Jew any more than someone who is a non-initiate Eclectic is Wiccan.
Perhaps it's true but in order for any of this to change even a little there's got to be more of the right info out there. But not only that it has to be said in the right and appealing way or most people will think "this is the same old purist stuff that doesn't apply to me".
Because let's be honest people DO recognize the difference between what they do and what original or purist Wiccans do so there's already a noted difference. They see themselves as a different Wicca but what they also think is that different doesn't mean wrong.
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How much spell work do you think is part of Wicca?
I don't rightly know in original Wicca but it's enough for Wiccans to feel comfortable calling themselves witches. Maybe I do a spell when it feels right but in my 5 years on this path I've only ever done 2. I personally don't include basic things like cleansing or regular rituals as spell work.
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What traditions were they a part of? I'm asking because so many people think they are Wiccan and since the term seems confused in how you use it, I've got no way of knowing that they were ever initiates. I'm not saying it couldn't happen- but it's really odd, and it doesn't make sense because once someone is initiated, that can't be undone.
I don't know what tradition he was part of I just knew that he was in a coven and his coven leader was Wiccan and he though he was Wiccan as well for a long time. Then something occurred he made some type of statement and his coven leader was like
oh no you're not Wiccan you're just pagan. So at that time she had to explain everything to him. I think he calls himself an eclectic-Wiccan now? I'm not sure but I do know he didn't drop the term Wiccan he just altered it.
The other person I met when I was just beginning my pagan path so I didn't know the details of everything yet I just recall she was saying she use to be a priestess but she changed to a more open path because it was too formal for her or something. I doubt she was legit but I will never know now.
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There are different kinds of experts- there are scholars and there are people who are experts by experience.
Then I guess it would vary depending on what area the person was an expert in original or new.
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