how many people actually BELIEVE in God,and trust in him?

[OneWithDunamis]

Perhaps no one can prove God exists because God doesn't want to be proven? When asked why Jesus spoke in parables, His response was He didn't want everyone to hear and believe, because then He'd have to forgive them all, implying that was not His plan. And if it's not His plan, it's not gonna happen.

[Hurricane_Scrambles]

OneWithDunamis

Perhaps no one can prove God exists because God doesn't want to be proven? When asked why Jesus spoke in parables, His response was He didn't want everyone to hear and believe, because then He'd have to forgive them all, implying that was not His plan. And if it's not His plan, it's not gonna happen.

So he doesn't want everyone to be enlightened and "saved?"

[I got bored one day]

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

Actually, this is the central problem with faith. Faith can explain everything, because it attempts to explain nothing.

Spoken by someone who doesn't even understand the very principles of his existence, no less.

Nobody understands the principles of their existence.

Then I am nobody.

Quote:

Science attempts to find and study these principles,

No, not at all.

Quote:

while faith accepts that there are principles, but that's all thanks to the mysterious all powerful being, and need no explanation.

Which is also a bloody hand-print on the mirror.

You're so confused.

You can't really claim you understand your own principles as an argument for God when God is your reason for that claim.

God is not the reason.

Quote:

And no, it is not a bloody handprint on anything. Faith is a catch-all. All it is saying is that "I don't understand this, so god is responsible". If humanity acted on faith alone, as you seem to suggest, we would still be living in the dark ages.

Which is only evidence you don't actually know or understand Faith. You attribute "Faith" to "Stupidity", failing to understand that the only things that fuels progress in the first place is Faith. You've readily abandoned the notion that we do not know, instead relying on what you do not know to cleverly disguise itself as something you do.

Faith is what drives us to find the nature of electricity and the universe, the sheer idea that it can be found in the first place through our current methods, assuming our methods are sound in the first place, pushing through the darkness of ignorance.

People without faith are stagnant and worthless; they fight for no causes nor understand why others fight, and in the end cannot do anything meaningful but wait for someone else to give them orders. It's faith that drives the better tomorrow you live in, and faith that drives the better tomorrow of your children as well.

[I got bored one day]

SomeKid93

Death and Misery

SomeKid93

Death and Misery

SomeKid93

An you do? Very well, prove we exist. Explain it.

Who are you?

What do you need to know about me for? You're the one with the secrets of existance. Spill them.

So, there's something? Are you sure? As I asked; who are you?

Oh I see. Metaphors. Very well, I'll play.

They aren't metaphors.

Quote:

Who can say what I am? What we are? We call ourselves human, but that is only a distintion. We call ourselves sentient, but that is merely classification. We say we are intelligent, but how is this proven? Nothing in the universe is completely without question. You believe in a great deity, who can say he is not just one like us, playing with ants in his backyard, asking these same questions?
What am I? I am uncertain.

So, in the end, you are. Even if you are uncertain you must be in order to be uncertain. Even if you are sure nothing is proven proof itself doesn't exist without you. You call yourself human. You call yourself sentient. You understand classifications that you set up. This is no metaphor.

You are simply because if you were not this would not occur. Does it matter the medium you 'exist' in? Are you that concerned about it? Such mind-games; truth exceeds human proofs, you are, there's no proof of that simply because you being exceeds you as you are, and always will.

Let's stop here though. I will answer one retort, but this is a sharp u-turn to the topic at hand.

[Hurricane_Scrambles]

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

Spoken by someone who doesn't even understand the very principles of his existence, no less.

Nobody understands the principles of their existence.

Then I am nobody.

Quote:

Science attempts to find and study these principles,

No, not at all.

Quote:

while faith accepts that there are principles, but that's all thanks to the mysterious all powerful being, and need no explanation.

Which is also a bloody hand-print on the mirror.

You're so confused.

You can't really claim you understand your own principles as an argument for God when God is your reason for that claim.

God is not the reason.

Quote:

And no, it is not a bloody handprint on anything. Faith is a catch-all. All it is saying is that "I don't understand this, so god is responsible". If humanity acted on faith alone, as you seem to suggest, we would still be living in the dark ages.

Which is only evidence you don't actually know or understand Faith. You attribute "Faith" to "Stupidity", failing to understand that the only things that fuels progress in the first place is Faith. You've readily abandoned the notion that we do not know, instead relying on what you do not know to cleverly disguise itself as something you do.

Faith is what drives us to find the nature of electricity and the universe, the sheer idea that it can be found in the first place through our current methods, assuming our methods are sound in the first place, pushing through the darkness of ignorance.

People without faith are stagnant and worthless; they fight for no causes nor understand why others fight, and in the end cannot do anything meaningful but wait for someone else to give them orders. It's faith that drives the better tomorrow you live in, and faith that drives the better tomorrow of your children as well.

However, not nessisarily faith in a god. Faith is easy to come by. Faith in a superior officer, faith in a family member, but when it comse to faith in a god, a faith which wishes to mold the way you yourself live your life, then that is not always a good thing, and can at that point be considered "stupid."

[Hurricane_Scrambles]

Quote:

Let's stop here though. I will answer one retort, but this is a sharp u-turn to the topic at hand.

Very well.

[OneWithDunamis]

SomeKid93

OneWithDunamis

Perhaps no one can prove God exists because God doesn't want to be proven? When asked why Jesus spoke in parables, His response was He didn't want everyone to hear and believe, because then He'd have to forgive them all, implying that was not His plan. And if it's not His plan, it's not gonna happen.

So he doesn't want everyone to be enlightened and "saved?"

That's precisely what I'm saying.

[I got bored one day]

SomeKid93

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

Nobody understands the principles of their existence.

Then I am nobody.

Quote:

Science attempts to find and study these principles,

No, not at all.

Quote:

while faith accepts that there are principles, but that's all thanks to the mysterious all powerful being, and need no explanation.

Which is also a bloody hand-print on the mirror.

You're so confused.

You can't really claim you understand your own principles as an argument for God when God is your reason for that claim.

God is not the reason.

Quote:

And no, it is not a bloody handprint on anything. Faith is a catch-all. All it is saying is that "I don't understand this, so god is responsible". If humanity acted on faith alone, as you seem to suggest, we would still be living in the dark ages.

Which is only evidence you don't actually know or understand Faith. You attribute "Faith" to "Stupidity", failing to understand that the only things that fuels progress in the first place is Faith. You've readily abandoned the notion that we do not know, instead relying on what you do not know to cleverly disguise itself as something you do.

Faith is what drives us to find the nature of electricity and the universe, the sheer idea that it can be found in the first place through our current methods, assuming our methods are sound in the first place, pushing through the darkness of ignorance.

People without faith are stagnant and worthless; they fight for no causes nor understand why others fight, and in the end cannot do anything meaningful but wait for someone else to give them orders. It's faith that drives the better tomorrow you live in, and faith that drives the better tomorrow of your children as well.

However, not nessisarily faith in a god. Faith is easy to come by. Faith in a superior officer, faith in a family member, but when it comse to faith in a god, a faith which wishes to mold the way you yourself live your life, then that is not always a good thing, and can at that point be considered "stupid."

Faith always molds your way of life. Faith in a deity is far easier than faith in your neighbor as well. What you do not know about your neighbor you know about the deity: Their Nature.

Come now, time is short.

No, time is up. I have business. Excuse me.

[Hurricane_Scrambles]

This topi is pointless. None of us shall be swayed by another, why bother. I believe I shall simply PM the OP.

[OneWithDunamis]

Not all discussions must end with only one conclusion. The process itself can be rewarding, especially to spectators.

[Djavlepik]

Death and Misery

SomeKid93

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

Then I am nobody. No, not at all. Which is also a bloody hand-print on the mirror.

You're so confused.

You can't really claim you understand your own principles as an argument for God when God is your reason for that claim.

God is not the reason.

Quote:

And no, it is not a bloody handprint on anything. Faith is a catch-all. All it is saying is that "I don't understand this, so god is responsible". If humanity acted on faith alone, as you seem to suggest, we would still be living in the dark ages.

Which is only evidence you don't actually know or understand Faith. You attribute "Faith" to "Stupidity", failing to understand that the only things that fuels progress in the first place is Faith. You've readily abandoned the notion that we do not know, instead relying on what you do not know to cleverly disguise itself as something you do.

Faith is what drives us to find the nature of electricity and the universe, the sheer idea that it can be found in the first place through our current methods, assuming our methods are sound in the first place, pushing through the darkness of ignorance.

People without faith are stagnant and worthless; they fight for no causes nor understand why others fight, and in the end cannot do anything meaningful but wait for someone else to give them orders. It's faith that drives the better tomorrow you live in, and faith that drives the better tomorrow of your children as well.

However, not nessisarily faith in a god. Faith is easy to come by. Faith in a superior officer, faith in a family member, but when it comse to faith in a god, a faith which wishes to mold the way you yourself live your life, then that is not always a good thing, and can at that point be considered "stupid."

Faith always molds your way of life. Faith in a deity is far easier than faith in your neighbor as well. What you do not know about your neighbor you know about the deity: Their Nature.

Come now, time is short.

No, time is up. I have business. Excuse me.

And how can you know the nature of a deity which cannot or will not prove it even exists in the first place?

[OneWithDunamis]

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

SomeKid93

Death and Misery

fatal_GRACE

You can't really claim you understand your own principles as an argument for God when God is your reason for that claim.

God is not the reason.

Quote:

And no, it is not a bloody handprint on anything. Faith is a catch-all. All it is saying is that "I don't understand this, so god is responsible". If humanity acted on faith alone, as you seem to suggest, we would still be living in the dark ages.

Which is only evidence you don't actually know or understand Faith. You attribute "Faith" to "Stupidity", failing to understand that the only things that fuels progress in the first place is Faith. You've readily abandoned the notion that we do not know, instead relying on what you do not know to cleverly disguise itself as something you do.

Faith is what drives us to find the nature of electricity and the universe, the sheer idea that it can be found in the first place through our current methods, assuming our methods are sound in the first place, pushing through the darkness of ignorance.

People without faith are stagnant and worthless; they fight for no causes nor understand why others fight, and in the end cannot do anything meaningful but wait for someone else to give them orders. It's faith that drives the better tomorrow you live in, and faith that drives the better tomorrow of your children as well.

However, not nessisarily faith in a god. Faith is easy to come by. Faith in a superior officer, faith in a family member, but when it comse to faith in a god, a faith which wishes to mold the way you yourself live your life, then that is not always a good thing, and can at that point be considered "stupid."

Faith always molds your way of life. Faith in a deity is far easier than faith in your neighbor as well. What you do not know about your neighbor you know about the deity: Their Nature.

Come now, time is short.

No, time is up. I have business. Excuse me.

And how can you know the nature of a deity which cannot or will not prove it even exists in the first place?

That's what historical documents are for.

[Djavlepik]

OneWithDunamis

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

SomeKid93

Death and Misery

God is not the reason.
Which is only evidence you don't actually know or understand Faith. You attribute "Faith" to "Stupidity", failing to understand that the only things that fuels progress in the first place is Faith. You've readily abandoned the notion that we do not know, instead relying on what you do not know to cleverly disguise itself as something you do.

Faith is what drives us to find the nature of electricity and the universe, the sheer idea that it can be found in the first place through our current methods, assuming our methods are sound in the first place, pushing through the darkness of ignorance.

People without faith are stagnant and worthless; they fight for no causes nor understand why others fight, and in the end cannot do anything meaningful but wait for someone else to give them orders. It's faith that drives the better tomorrow you live in, and faith that drives the better tomorrow of your children as well.

However, not nessisarily faith in a god. Faith is easy to come by. Faith in a superior officer, faith in a family member, but when it comse to faith in a god, a faith which wishes to mold the way you yourself live your life, then that is not always a good thing, and can at that point be considered "stupid."

Faith always molds your way of life. Faith in a deity is far easier than faith in your neighbor as well. What you do not know about your neighbor you know about the deity: Their Nature.

Come now, time is short.

No, time is up. I have business. Excuse me.

And how can you know the nature of a deity which cannot or will not prove it even exists in the first place?

That's what historical documents are for.

The bible is not a historical document.

[OneWithDunamis]

fatal_GRACE

OneWithDunamis

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

SomeKid93

Death and Misery

God is not the reason.
Which is only evidence you don't actually know or understand Faith. You attribute "Faith" to "Stupidity", failing to understand that the only things that fuels progress in the first place is Faith. You've readily abandoned the notion that we do not know, instead relying on what you do not know to cleverly disguise itself as something you do.

Faith is what drives us to find the nature of electricity and the universe, the sheer idea that it can be found in the first place through our current methods, assuming our methods are sound in the first place, pushing through the darkness of ignorance.

People without faith are stagnant and worthless; they fight for no causes nor understand why others fight, and in the end cannot do anything meaningful but wait for someone else to give them orders. It's faith that drives the better tomorrow you live in, and faith that drives the better tomorrow of your children as well.

However, not nessisarily faith in a god. Faith is easy to come by. Faith in a superior officer, faith in a family member, but when it comse to faith in a god, a faith which wishes to mold the way you yourself live your life, then that is not always a good thing, and can at that point be considered "stupid."

Faith always molds your way of life. Faith in a deity is far easier than faith in your neighbor as well. What you do not know about your neighbor you know about the deity: Their Nature.

Come now, time is short.

No, time is up. I have business. Excuse me.

And how can you know the nature of a deity which cannot or will not prove it even exists in the first place?

That's what historical documents are for.

The bible is not a historical document.

Even though other historical documents back it? Even some atheists will say Jesus was real. Whether He was God or not is the debated topic.

[Djavlepik]

OneWithDunamis

fatal_GRACE

OneWithDunamis

fatal_GRACE

Death and Misery

Faith always molds your way of life. Faith in a deity is far easier than faith in your neighbor as well. What you do not know about your neighbor you know about the deity: Their Nature.

Come now, time is short.

No, time is up. I have business. Excuse me.

And how can you know the nature of a deity which cannot or will not prove it even exists in the first place?

That's what historical documents are for.

The bible is not a historical document.

Even though other historical documents back it? Even some atheists will say Jesus was real. Whether He was God or not is the debated topic.

It is true in that is is a document that existed historically, but most of the accounts of events were written hundreds of years after they 'occurred', and nothing in it is admissible proof of God.