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Stuch BSc's avatar

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I think we already know the result of this thread's match up.
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When the 911 operator tells you not to pursue the individual and you confront them and later shoot them, you've done a great deal to remove any notion of self-defense from the situation.
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I don't see how people try to justify this murder. Even if Trayvon attacked, most people would not react well to being stalked by a creepy racist for no reason. And I don't believe that the kid could have been dangerous enough to shoot.
Zimmerman deliberately followed and started an altercation with Martin although he was advised not to do so. He had no plausible reason to confront Martin - unless you consider a young, black male wearing a hoodie and walking down the street with skittles and an Arizona Ice tea in his pockets "suspicious behavior". When Zimmerman hopped out of his car and approached him, Martin had every RIGHT to defend himself; if someone had been following you in their car in the dead of night and they hop out wielding a gun, then it's safe to say that you have absolutely every right to fight back. Clearly, the only person who was allowed to plead self-defense in this case was Martin, but because he's dead he can no longer do that.

So, if I were you, I would get rid of that "bias" and go with what's right.
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Stuch BSc
I think we already know the result of this thread's match up.


100:0, Martin's favor.
Martin attacked first, regardless of how "creepy" Zimmerman might have appeared. Zimmerman initially claimed this, and there were eyewitnesses. Martin was the first to resort to violence. There is a law in Florida that specifically states that if someone attacks you, you have the right to self defense, and that includes shooting someone. Zimmerman apparently knew the law- and as a man on duty in neighborhood watch, who in their right mind would let a person that just attacked them continue to walk through their populated neighborhood?
Martin himself certainly wasn't an angel. He had recently been suspended from school, and according to a family spokesperson, this was for possessing marijuana. He had practically a row of golden teeth. His Facebook page had indications of other violent acts he may have committed.
Zimmerman, on the other hand, was a volunteering neighborhood watch captain. Further, Zimmerman-despite some of the media's initial claims of white-on-black racism- isn't white. If white people support him, they aren't being racist. They are not siding with their own race or claiming it to be superior. They are siding with a man who was attacked by another man who was taller and likely more fit, a man that was walking through a neighborhood that was not his own, a man with a questionable history. In my own opinion, standing back from the situation, Zimmerman should have just walked away. He should have let the police take care of it. However, Zimmerman was understandably not feeling particularly tranquil. He had just had his head bashed in and the perpetrator was about to run free through the neighborhood Zimmerman was attempting to protect. In my eyes, and in the laws of Florida, the case doesn't go in Martin's favor- but Zimmerman still did something wrong.
No this is stupid. Not gonna do this.
Quote:

Martin himself certainly wasn't an angel. He had recently been suspended from school, and according to a family spokesperson, this was for possessing marijuana. He had practically a row of golden teeth. His Facebook page had indications of other violent acts he may have committed.


I'm really annoyed at the media taking jabs at Martin's character to distract people from whatever facts there are. His being an angel to you? Irrelevant to the case. It doesn't matter if he stole or did violence before. What probable cause did Zimmerman have to follow him? None. That's what a lot of black people seem upset over. Even if Martin wasn't an angel, it's the principle that you could get followed and feel threatened enough to fight just because you're black and wear a hoodie.
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Zimmerman was found with wounds, according to a witness inflicted from Martin being on top of him attacking him. This is a simple self defense case


As someone who's been self defense situations more than once, and helps other gun owners with the legality of these situations, I'm calling horseshit.

Having wounds doesn't mean much. Someone who breaks into a home and strangles a man can also sport wounds. Doesn't then make the strangling a case of self defense.

Zimmerman pursued and stalked the guy. Zimmerman carried a piece contrary to Neighborhood Watch policy. Zimmerman did not abide by 911 instructions to stay put. He sought out the situation, and in no state I know of, including Florida, does that help your self defense claim, and when you use lethal force, your claim get's that much harder by necessity.

He also had very little details about the actual physical altercation. Strike ******** 2. When I simply pulled my firearm, not even fired, I had to make sure my ducks were in a row regarding the situation and that I was in a legitimate need to do so in order to defend myself or prevent another felony in one case. Even then, I was questioned big time and had to avoid a charge of conspiracy to commit murder 2. The police didn't simply take my word for it, nor the word of anyone involved.

This is a ******** on multiple levels, and anyone with any kind of actual knowledge or experience in self defense legality knows it.
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My Dog Mr. Kitty
He wasn't being chased down, he was being followed
There's a big difference there


Then Zimmerman pursued the situation. He was not cornered. He was not in any immenent danger that he didn't willingly put himself in.
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By the way, am I the only noticing a suspicious amount of "OOO! OO! I know <insert person involved> and I knwo something the cops nor media know!" that's coming out of the woodwork with this s**t? I even heard people claim that Trayvon had a gun. Good gawd....
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kiaronna
Martin attacked first, regardless of how "creepy" Zimmerman might have appeared Zimmerman initially claimed this, and there were eyewitnesses. Martin was the first to resort to violence. There is a law in Florida that specifically states that if someone attacks you, you have the right to self defense, and that includes shooting someone. Zimmerman apparently knew the law- and as a man on duty in neighborhood watch, who in their right mind would let a person that just attacked them continue to walk through their populated neighborhood?
Martin himself certainly wasn't an angel. He had recently been suspended from school, and according to a family spokesperson, this was for possessing marijuana. He had practically a row of golden teeth. His Facebook page had indications of other violent acts he may have committed.
Zimmerman, on the other hand, was a volunteering neighborhood watch captain. Further, Zimmerman-despite some of the media's initial claims of white-on-black racism- isn't white. If white people support him, they aren't being racist. They are not siding with their own race or claiming it to be superior. They are siding with a man who was attacked by another man who was taller and likely more fit, a man that was walking through a neighborhood that was not his own, a man with a questionable history. In my own opinion, standing back from the situation, Zimmerman should have just walked away. He should have let the police take care of it. However, Zimmerman was understandably not feeling particularly tranquil. He had just had his head bashed in and the perpetrator was about to run free through the neighborhood Zimmerman was attempting to protect. In my eyes, and in the laws of Florida, the case doesn't go in Martin's favor- but Zimmerman still did something wrong.


Knowing that, Martin had more of a self defense claim than Zim.

Also, he wasn't exactly a model member of the watch, as he flagrantly violated their "no firearm" policy.

Now throw in that Zim was known for multiple frivolous calls to 911. This guy comes across to me as someone who was wanting to play Death Wish and finally found it.

As for Martin, so what if he posed like an idiot on FB? If we could hold people accountable for stupid s**t bragged about on the net, everyone on 4chan would be rounded up. Possession of weed does not mean=history f violence for that matter.
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Lady__Miko
Quote:

Martin himself certainly wasn't an angel. He had recently been suspended from school, and according to a family spokesperson, this was for possessing marijuana. He had practically a row of golden teeth. His Facebook page had indications of other violent acts he may have committed.


I'm really annoyed at the media taking jabs at Martin's character to distract people from whatever facts there are. His being an angel to you? Irrelevant to the case. It doesn't matter if he stole or did violence before. What probable cause did Zimmerman have to follow him? None. That's what a lot of black people seem upset over. Even if Martin wasn't an angel, it's the principle that you could get followed and feel threatened enough to fight just because you're black and wear a hoodie.


Especially since those jabs all add up to "Martin looked scary, so that means he was guilty of something bad....we're sure...just not sure what...."

Pro Tip here, would be Charles Bronsons; someone dressing in a hoodie or like a dumbass gangsta to his internet buddies does not give you a legal self defense claim.
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no matter how this goes, Zimmerman is screwed.

to those on the Left, he's a man with a white-sounding name who shot and murdered a defenseless Black man for no other reason than he was black, and that's racist.

to those on the Right, he's a stupid w*****k who shouldn't've been allowed out of whatever smelly brown country he entered this one illegally from in the first place.

one side doesn't care about him because he sounds like a white racist, the other side doesn't care about him because he's not white and they are racist. the only thing that everyone agrees on is that Zimmerman is a monster

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