Evolution: Fact Or Fiction

Whats your religion?

Atheist	39.3%	[ 1138 ]
Protestant	16.9%	[ 489 ]
Catholic	14.1%	[ 407 ]
Hindu	1.3%	[ 37 ]
Muslim	1.8%	[ 53 ]
Jew	2.3%	[ 67 ]
Buddhist	5.1%	[ 149 ]
Greek Orthodox	0.7%	[ 21 ]
Pagan	14.2%	[ 412 ]
Egyptian	4.2%	[ 122 ]
Total Votes:			[ 2895 ]

[Jaaten Syric]

Doubting Didymus

So, what should I do according to you? Keep going on in an endless debate? Keep trying to find more sources, only to have them rejected.

Two words:

Peer Review.

Find me something that has appeared in a credible scientific or medical journal (preferably from this century, but hey, I'm flexible...) that shows your claims to have some grounding in reality instead of simply being pulled lock stock and barrel from the depths of Ken or Kent's colon.

Quote:

I'm sick of it, and sick of wasting my time on it.

And yet...here you are. Curious...

[Jacques Sparrow]

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

Jaaten Syric

Normally people don't brag about their pigheadedness...

Then again, I suppose I should keep our earlier conversations in mind before applying normal human standards like that...

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Don't take it personally, but I don't debate with Atheists anymore. Every source I throw at them, they reject, sometimes just because they are from a creationist site.

That's why I don't accept evolutionist sources anymore, and why I don't debate about evolution.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

So you're being ignorant and stubborn. neutral Not to mention immature because Atheists believe that Creationist sites are either biased or heavily inaccurate or show no logic.

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

So, what should I do according to you? Keep going on in an endless debate? Keep trying to find more sources, only to have them rejected. I'm sick of it, and sick of wasting my time on it.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Try finding sources that are accurate, non-biased and done by a third party source. neutral It's not that hard really.

And where am I going to find those? There is no third party.

Quote:

Did you ever stop to think that the reason we reject them is because their claims are not borne out by any science whatsoever? Especially considering that I know for a fact that some of us have gone claim by claim through the festering piles of bullshit you've linked us to to show that is exactly what they are? Like that time where Sandokiri and I pummeled you senseless with the 'Miller carbon-dated dinosaur bones' nonsense?

Oh. And Vryko (at the very least) is not an atheist, at least to the best of my knowledge. Nor are the men he suggested you read up on. (I'd throw Simon Conway-Morris into the mix, but he is admittedly more obscure). So, may I ask what your reaction to legitimate Christian scientists who say your sources are full of s**t is?

You only accept mainstream science. And mainstream science rejects evolutionism. It wouldn't even dare thinking about Creationism, because if that were true, God would surely be true too. And Christian scientists are hypocrites. Either you believe in the Bible, or you believe in Evolutionism. They don't go together.

Quote:

Because you'll lose? And you know it?

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Lose....Haha....there is no winner or loser in an endless debate.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

[xLady Tsukiyox]

Doubting Didymus

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Don't take it personally, but I don't debate with Atheists anymore. Every source I throw at them, they reject, sometimes just because they are from a creationist site.

That's why I don't accept evolutionist sources anymore, and why I don't debate about evolution.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

So you're being ignorant and stubborn. neutral Not to mention immature because Atheists believe that Creationist sites are either biased or heavily inaccurate or show no logic.

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

So, what should I do according to you? Keep going on in an endless debate? Keep trying to find more sources, only to have them rejected. I'm sick of it, and sick of wasting my time on it.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Try finding sources that are accurate, non-biased and done by a third party source. neutral It's not that hard really.

And where am I going to find those? There is no third party.

Quote:

Did you ever stop to think that the reason we reject them is because their claims are not borne out by any science whatsoever? Especially considering that I know for a fact that some of us have gone claim by claim through the festering piles of bullshit you've linked us to to show that is exactly what they are? Like that time where Sandokiri and I pummeled you senseless with the 'Miller carbon-dated dinosaur bones' nonsense?

Oh. And Vryko (at the very least) is not an atheist, at least to the best of my knowledge. Nor are the men he suggested you read up on. (I'd throw Simon Conway-Morris into the mix, but he is admittedly more obscure). So, may I ask what your reaction to legitimate Christian scientists who say your sources are full of s**t is?

You only accept mainstream science. And mainstream science rejects evolutionism. It wouldn't even dare thinking about Creationism, because if that were true, God would surely be true too. And Christian scientists are hypocrites. Either you believe in the Bible, or you believe in Evolutionism. They don't go together.

Quote:

Because you'll lose? And you know it?

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Lose....Haha....there is no winner or loser in an endless debate.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Actually there is. You need to sift through each source to find it. :3 Again it isn't hard.

[Jacques Sparrow]

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

So you're being ignorant and stubborn. neutral Not to mention immature because Atheists believe that Creationist sites are either biased or heavily inaccurate or show no logic.

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

So, what should I do according to you? Keep going on in an endless debate? Keep trying to find more sources, only to have them rejected. I'm sick of it, and sick of wasting my time on it.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Try finding sources that are accurate, non-biased and done by a third party source. neutral It's not that hard really.

And where am I going to find those? There is no third party.

Quote:

Did you ever stop to think that the reason we reject them is because their claims are not borne out by any science whatsoever? Especially considering that I know for a fact that some of us have gone claim by claim through the festering piles of bullshit you've linked us to to show that is exactly what they are? Like that time where Sandokiri and I pummeled you senseless with the 'Miller carbon-dated dinosaur bones' nonsense?

Oh. And Vryko (at the very least) is not an atheist, at least to the best of my knowledge. Nor are the men he suggested you read up on. (I'd throw Simon Conway-Morris into the mix, but he is admittedly more obscure). So, may I ask what your reaction to legitimate Christian scientists who say your sources are full of s**t is?

You only accept mainstream science. And mainstream science rejects evolutionism. It wouldn't even dare thinking about Creationism, because if that were true, God would surely be true too. And Christian scientists are hypocrites. Either you believe in the Bible, or you believe in Evolutionism. They don't go together.

Quote:

Because you'll lose? And you know it?

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Lose....Haha....there is no winner or loser in an endless debate.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Actually there is. You need to sift through each source to find it. :3 Again it isn't hard.

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Yet, I do not master the language of English. Nor do I have the time to search the internet for things Scientists try to hide.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

[Jaaten Syric]

Doubting Didymus

You only accept mainstream science.

Is that your way of saying '{I} only accept real science'? Because if so I agree.

Quote:

And mainstream science rejects evolutionism.

Funny, because I have a few hundred thousand papers that say different.

Quote:

It wouldn't even dare thinking about Creationism, because if that were true, God would surely be true too.

No, actually, it wouldn't. Even if creationism weren't rife with inconsistencies, revisionism, and flat out ignorance of reality (not to mention being peddled by known shams, [convicted] frauds, and snake-oil hucksters) all that would prove is well, what the evidence showed. It would no more support the existence of YHWH than it would support the deities of countless other traditions with similar creation myths.

Quote:

And Christian scientists are hypocrites.

So...the pope (and the last two before him, if memory serves) are Hypocrites? Aren't you a catholic? biggrin

Quote:

Either you believe in the Bible, or you believe in Evolutionism. They don't go together.

So I can take it you believe, unquestioningly, that bats are birds, pi is exactly three, insects have only four legs, that there is a solid firmament dividing the waters of the ocean from the waters of the heavens, that the earth is flat (and fixed in place)...

Why do I get the feeling that you can forgive these little inconsistencies without a second thought? Why is it okay to assume that the scribes (or the translators) ******** up on these occasions, but not when it comes to evolution?

Quote:

Lose....Haha....there is no winner or loser in an endless debate.

Sayeth the man with no factual support whatsoever.

[Jacques Sparrow]

Quote:

Is that your way of saying '{I} only accept real science'? Because if so I agree.

What is real science? Define it to me.

Quote:

Funny, because I have a few hundred thousand papers that say different.

Sorry, that was a typing error. I meant to Creationism.

Quote:

So...the pope (and the last two before him, if memory serves) are Hypocrites? Aren't you a catholic? biggrin

First, they aren't scientists. And second, they were neutral towards it. Probably to avoid any controverse from either side.

Quote:

So I can take it you believe, unquestioningly, that bats are birds, pi is exactly three, insects have only four legs, that there is a solid firmament dividing the waters of the ocean from the waters of the heavens, that the earth is flat (and fixed in place)...

You are misguided. Two of those I can answer directly. The Hebrews in that time always rounded their numbers, and the Bible supports a round Earth.

Quote:

Sayeth the man with no factual support whatsoever.

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

I can say the same of you.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

[Jaaten Syric]

Doubting Didymus

What is real science? Define it to me.

Theories and and hypotheses made and tested within the framework of the scientific method.

Quote:

Sorry, that was a typing error. I meant to Creationism.

I know. That was just an excuse to pimp my 224,000 peer-reviewed studies and remind you that you have none.

Quote:

First, they aren't scientists.

Funny, because they employ rather a lot of them. The two most prominent being abbot Gregor Mendel and Monsignor Georges Lemaître (whose work, admittedly does not involve evolution, but something tells me you're not too pleased with the Big Bang Theory either).

Quote:

And second, they were neutral towards it. Probably to avoid any controverse from either side.

Is that why JPII called it 'an effectively proven fact', and why Bene has said of the creationism/evolution controversy, and this is a direct quote; “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”

Quote:

You are misguided. Two of those I can answer directly. The Hebrews in that time always rounded their numbers,

And I'm sure you can provide evidence of this claim, right? Because rather a lot of other civilizations in the area were able to figure out that pi is 'three and a bit' long before these passages were written.

Quote:

and the Bible supports a round Earth.

Best tell that to Enoch. wink

*Yes, I know it isn't cannon. But one wonders why, if it is so inaccurate and whatnot, that it is so widely cited in the established cannon.*

Quote:

I can say the same of you.

No, actually. You can't. That's the beauty of it. See all those peer reviewed papers that I linked to? Those have facts in them, not mere apologetics.

[Master SBK]

there is no theory of evolution. Only a list of creatures that Chuck Norris has allowed to live


Amazingly, that makes a heck of a lot more sense than does Creationist claims

[Comfledore]

I have a question for just about anyone, really.
When do you think humans, as we know them today, started doing their own agriculture and living in villages? About how long ago do you feel that was?

Because, last I checked, scientists and theologians practically agreed on the date, which is amazing since they do not agree on much. I'll be getting somewhere with this, I promise. XD

[Aegair]

Master SBK

there is no theory of evolution. Only a list of creatures that Chuck Norris has allowed to live


Amazingly, that makes a heck of a lot more sense than does Creationist claims

I agree with the tiny writing.

[xLady Tsukiyox]

Doubting Didymus

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Doubting Didymus

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

So, what should I do according to you? Keep going on in an endless debate? Keep trying to find more sources, only to have them rejected. I'm sick of it, and sick of wasting my time on it.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Try finding sources that are accurate, non-biased and done by a third party source. neutral It's not that hard really.

And where am I going to find those? There is no third party.

Quote:

Did you ever stop to think that the reason we reject them is because their claims are not borne out by any science whatsoever? Especially considering that I know for a fact that some of us have gone claim by claim through the festering piles of bullshit you've linked us to to show that is exactly what they are? Like that time where Sandokiri and I pummeled you senseless with the 'Miller carbon-dated dinosaur bones' nonsense?

Oh. And Vryko (at the very least) is not an atheist, at least to the best of my knowledge. Nor are the men he suggested you read up on. (I'd throw Simon Conway-Morris into the mix, but he is admittedly more obscure). So, may I ask what your reaction to legitimate Christian scientists who say your sources are full of s**t is?

You only accept mainstream science. And mainstream science rejects evolutionism. It wouldn't even dare thinking about Creationism, because if that were true, God would surely be true too. And Christian scientists are hypocrites. Either you believe in the Bible, or you believe in Evolutionism. They don't go together.

Quote:

Because you'll lose? And you know it?

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Lose....Haha....there is no winner or loser in an endless debate.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Actually there is. You need to sift through each source to find it. :3 Again it isn't hard.

בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר

Yet, I do not master the language of English. Nor do I have the time to search the internet for things Scientists try to hide.

והאור האיר בחשך והחשך לא השיגו

Stop making excuses. neutral

[Thiora]

comfortably_dumb

I have a question for just about anyone, really.
When do you think humans, as we know them today, started doing their own agriculture and living in villages? About how long ago do you feel that was?

Because, last I checked, scientists and theologians practically agreed on the date, which is amazing since they do not agree on much. I'll be getting somewhere with this, I promise. XD

Depends on who you mean by theologians, ones which accept science or ones which favour their literal interpretation of their religious texts. If you mean the latter, you're wrong, as most of the monotheistic religions believe that the world is less than 10,000 years old, whereas argiculture has been around for a lot longer (almost double, I believe) source: here

[Comfledore]

Thiora

comfortably_dumb

I have a question for just about anyone, really.
When do you think humans, as we know them today, started doing their own agriculture and living in villages? About how long ago do you feel that was?

Because, last I checked, scientists and theologians practically agreed on the date, which is amazing since they do not agree on much. I'll be getting somewhere with this, I promise. XD

Depends on who you mean by theologians, ones which accept science or ones which favour their literal interpretation of their religious texts. If you mean the latter, you're wrong, as most of the monotheistic religions believe that the world is less than 10,000 years old, whereas argiculture has been around for a lot longer (almost double, I believe) source: here

No no no, I don't mean purely agriculture. I just mean humans having the ability to farm and tend to vegetation.
Oopsiediddles. Nevermind. Clicked your link.
How about the ability of agriculture and living in villages? Would it have been later?

[viper232]

Didymus... I'm curious, define evolution.

Just provide a definition of it. Then, when you do that, tell me what evidence you WOULD accept for evolution and how you'd reject creationism.

Note... the people arguing here against you, theist or not, are intellectually honest. They I'm sure would all be able to provide you with a rather easy set of criteria that would utterly invalidate evolution to them, and even establish signs of some divine creation. Not necessarily the christian god, but at least some deity. They are not arguing because they want god to be wrong, they are arguing because they care about following the empirical evidence.

You wonder why they reject creationist sources, but have you bothered to study the subject at all? Have you bothered to evaluate the claims on both sides with an open mind, or do you openly admit that you are so close minded, so dense and so intellectually dishonest that it doesn't matter what evolutionary biologists provide you will still always reject it with a wave of the hand?

If you think a creationist source is valid, truly providing something of worth, I'm sure we'd all be happy to utterly invalidate whatever article you provide, but we won't do so if you're so ******** dishonest that you won't accept empirical evidence.

Edit: And did someone say he's a hovindite? So he doesn't just reject evolution, he goes the entire 6000 year old earth bit too?

[Jaaten Syric]

viper232

Edit: And did someone say he's a hovindite? So he doesn't just reject evolution, he goes the entire 6000 year old earth bit too?

That's be me. And so far as I know, yes. The last encounter I had with Didymus was him retelling the story of Miller trying to pass off fictitious C14 dating results on a dinosaur bone (which he had been warned against by the technicians) as evidence that radiometric dating doesn't work. I'm not positive, but I believe he's also on board with the humans and dinosaurs coexisting too.