Evolution: Fact Or Fiction

Whats your religion?

Atheist	39.3%	[ 1138 ]
Protestant	16.9%	[ 489 ]
Catholic	14.1%	[ 407 ]
Hindu	1.3%	[ 37 ]
Muslim	1.8%	[ 53 ]
Jew	2.3%	[ 67 ]
Buddhist	5.1%	[ 149 ]
Greek Orthodox	0.7%	[ 21 ]
Pagan	14.2%	[ 412 ]
Egyptian	4.2%	[ 122 ]
Total Votes:			[ 2895 ]

[Andrzei]

songsparrow

Deep Vermillion

songsparrow

Granted I don't have the study, but do you have the study that says otherwise? where is the evidence for evolution?

Here.

Ok, so I read it and it was very informative. Thank you. I do have a couple of points to make though.

1) Creationism is ruled out as a theory because it does not fit the scientific definition of what a theory is. This leaves no room for consideration of the possibility and therefore leave evolution to explain the origins of life. This is a bias against creationism that leaves those of us who believe in it be ridiculed as some kind of idiot.

Please explain why we should consider creationism when it has been ruled out, as you said. Seriously, what proof do you have going for you ? Why should we beleive creationism when all signs point to evolution ?

Quote:

2)"...the theory of evolution still has essentially unanimous agreement from the people who work on it." These people wouldn't be working on evolution if they didn't already stand behind the theory, thus another bias.

Anyone who says that science is unbiased simply does not understand human nature.

I don't know where you got that quote( haven't read the entire thread, you see) but genereally, people who are working on evolution have a degree in biology. They have spent years and years studying biology. Would it be possible for them to believe ( I hate to use "believe" as that implies faith) in evolution so strongly simply because of all the evidence they have been presented with ?

They aren't scientists because they believe in evolution. They believe in evolution because they are scientists and have all the necessary biological knowledge that comes with being a scientists.


Let me make you an analogy. Phycisists are holding us down. The theory of gravity has still unanimous agreement by those who work on it. They would not be working on gravity if they did not believe in it, and they are not giving intelligent falling a chance ( I think it's pretty abvious that everyone has an angel that follows them around and pushes down on their shoulders.)

Ridiculous ?

Yes indeed.

[CuAnnan]

Andrzei

Let me make you an analogy. Phycisists are holding us down. The theory of gravity has still unanimous agreement by those who work on it.

That's an out and out falsehood.
Some physicists don't accept that gravity is a force because Einstein doesn't allow for it in his theory of general relativity.
Others maintain that it is, due to superstring theory, and suspect that the Higgs Boson will provide the fundamental force mediating particle for it.

[songsparrow]

Shaviv

songsparrow

Shaviv

Nuri

I'm amused. Technically, wouldn't YVWH be a pre-christian diety?

Yep.

Well spotted. xp

It's also notable that Christians and Jews actually worship the same God. The only difference is that Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and Jews are still waiting for the prophesy to be fulfilled.

The idea of God the Father, which is kind of central to most Christian theology (that Jesus was the son of God) is kind of directly counter to all Judaic conceptions of YHWH. So: no, the god of Israel is not the same as god the Father.

The entire basis of Jesus as savior of the world is found in Jewish scripture. Also, are you aware of the Jewish concept of "Father God".

[songsparrow]

Shatari

songsparrow

Well, it seems to work for the atheists.

You seem to think that we all deny that your god exists. I personally don't, since His existence would be irrelevant to my own religion. ^.^

You would be the exception.

Shatari

songsparrow

Granted I don't have the study, but do you have the study that says otherwise? where is the evidence for evolution? If it is indeed science then let science prove it.

Other people have already addressed this, but please get out of the habit of trying to shift Burden of Proof incorrectly. It is against the forum rules (which you should read). 3nodding

That said, I humbly appologise. This is a difficult subject for me, as I am very firm in my beliefs, and am unwilling to waver without absolute certainty.

[Andrzei]

reagun ban

Andrzei

Let me make you an analogy. Phycisists are holding us down. The theory of gravity has still unanimous agreement by those who work on it.

That's an out and out falsehood.
Some physicists don't accept that gravity is a force because Einstein doesn't allow for it in his theory of general relativity.
Others maintain that it is, due to superstring theory, and suspect that the Higgs Boson will provide the fundamental force mediating particle for it.

Yeah.

I just tried to use a couple words from his original post to get my point across.. I really think you're missing it. I think you can see the similarity, yes ?

[CuAnnan]

Andrzei

reagun ban

Andrzei

Let me make you an analogy. Phycisists are holding us down. The theory of gravity has still unanimous agreement by those who work on it.

That's an out and out falsehood.
Some physicists don't accept that gravity is a force because Einstein doesn't allow for it in his theory of general relativity.
Others maintain that it is, due to superstring theory, and suspect that the Higgs Boson will provide the fundamental force mediating particle for it.

Yeah.

I just tried to use a couple words from his original post to get my point across.. I really think you're missing it. I think you can see the similarity, yes ?

In case directly and overtly referencing both General Rel and Higgs Boson didn't overtly spell it out for you: I am a big follower of the scientific method and know a hell of a lot about it.
I got everything you said.
Your analogy was simply factually incorrect.

[Maze1125]

songsparrow

That said, I humbly appologise. This is a difficult subject for me, as I am very firm in my beliefs, and am unwilling to waver without absolute certainty.

No belief is ever certain.
And evolution has far more certainty than any religion.

[songsparrow]

Natas Ferret

Shaviv

Elliptic

Actually some scientists or proved some of the bible's stories are real. And I don't mean prove because I do not know if they actually PROVED it but there was some evidence that some of the stories did actually happen.

Are you referring to the divine ones, or the political ones?

We all know it must've been the divine ones.
Egypt never had a Pharaoh.

What? You're joking right? There has never even been a debate on the Pharoah of Egypt. To say Egypt never had a Pharoh is like saying the Catholic Church has no Pope.

[Andrzei]

reagun ban

Andrzei

reagun ban

Andrzei

Let me make you an analogy. Phycisists are holding us down. The theory of gravity has still unanimous agreement by those who work on it.

That's an out and out falsehood.
Some physicists don't accept that gravity is a force because Einstein doesn't allow for it in his theory of general relativity.
Others maintain that it is, due to superstring theory, and suspect that the Higgs Boson will provide the fundamental force mediating particle for it.

Yeah.

I just tried to use a couple words from his original post to get my point across.. I really think you're missing it. I think you can see the similarity, yes ?

In case directly and overtly referencing both General Rel and Higgs Boson didn't overtly spell it out for you: I am a big follower of the scientific method and know a hell of a lot about it.
I got everything you said.
Your analogy was simply factually incorrect.

Touche

[songsparrow]

Maze1125

songsparrow

That said, I humbly appologise. This is a difficult subject for me, as I am very firm in my beliefs, and am unwilling to waver without absolute certainty.

No belief is ever certain.
And evolution has far more certainty than any religion.

And yet I am certain that my God lives. By certain I mean I don't just think he lives, I know.

[Maze1125]

songsparrow

Maze1125

songsparrow

That said, I humbly appologise. This is a difficult subject for me, as I am very firm in my beliefs, and am unwilling to waver without absolute certainty.

No belief is ever certain.
And evolution has far more certainty than any religion.

And yet I am certain that my God lives. By certain I mean I don't just think he lives, I know.

How?

[Angra-Mainyu]

reagun ban

Andrzei

Let me make you an analogy. Phycisists are holding us down. The theory of gravity has still unanimous agreement by those who work on it.

That's an out and out falsehood.
Some physicists don't accept that gravity is a force because Einstein doesn't allow for it in his theory of general relativity.
Others maintain that it is, due to superstring theory, and suspect that the Higgs Boson will provide the fundamental force mediating particle for it.

Now there, if you are going to pull someone up you had best be accurate yourself. The Higgs boson is the final piece in the jigsaw that is the electroweak unificiation á la Weinberg and has precious little to do with gravitons or any further unification. The Higgs boson gives the weak gauge boson mass because local gauge invariance requires massless bosons to mediate force. Though, GTR does not model gravity as a force in the same way as quantum field theories do, yet, you will not find a orthodox physicist who will claim that gravity as not well described by GTR when applied in its domain. Meh, the disagreement would come from [scientific] realists who insist that the mathematical models are describing underlying ontological entities rather than accepting they are only approximations [i.e., Lorentzian manifolds, point-like particles, or one-dimensional strings, all of these are just useful models and need not be actual objects].

[songsparrow]

Nightmare984

you know the best thing about evolotion, we have evidence,
you guys dont have any evidence of divine power of any form

I know what I have seen with my own 2 eyes.

[Maze1125]

songsparrow

Nightmare984

you know the best thing about evolotion, we have evidence,
you guys dont have any evidence of divine power of any form

I know what I have seen with my own 2 eyes.

And what have you seen?

[songsparrow]

Maze1125

songsparrow

Vryko Lakas

songsparrow

That's a cop out. With all the evidence there is still doubt. What do we have that can show difinitively that humans evolved from some form of bacteria?

We didn't evolve from bacteria, we actually share a common ancestor with bacteria (animals, plants, and fungi branch off of the Eucarya line). The proof is in the genes and the structure of our cells.

Study please

Let's see a study that gives evidence for creationism and such first.

Such studies don't exist because creationism doesn't qualify as a theory by scientific definition. Essentially it has to be repeatable, though there is more to it. Since creation happened only once and everyone naturally missed the event there can be no study to prove it. However I can tell you that I have experienced God, but I doubt that would count.